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[News] new Screenshots of Rage Harde releasedANN.lu
Posted on 09-Jul-2002 09:56 GMT by Martin Wollert135 comments
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you can find new screenshots from the MorphOS Game Rage Hard here RageHardPic
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 101 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Lando / trinity on 11-Jul-2002 07:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Ben Yoris):
>To Steffen : my advice is to stop talking about Quake II in such forums.
I agree. I just hope Steffen knows that his hard work is very much appreciated by 99.9% of us Amiga owners.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 102 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 11-Jul-2002 09:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Lando / trinity):
Amen! Most of us aren't anonymous trolls.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 103 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jul-2002 09:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (redrumloa):
You're a troll with a name. Far worse.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 104 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jul-2002 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Steffen Haeuser):
It's not a "stupid theory" it is the license agreement that you agreed to.
As I said, we live by this license agreement every day, if you weren't willing to accept the terms of the license then you should have refrained from giving copies of the binary code to anyone, including beta testers, soccer mums, and Olympic athletes. The license itself warns you of this.
Just in case you still think we're pulling your leg, here's a quote from John Carmack, the man who put the Quake II source under the GNU GPL.
"I am positive that you are required to give the source to anyone that asks for it that got a binary from someone else."
This quote is from the QuakeLives situation, which is very similar because it's all about a developer trying to weasel his way out of the GNU GPL. Slade argued that his "testers" were under NDA and had waived their rights under the GNU GPL. Carmack eventually offered to sue him, and he backed down.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 105 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 11-Jul-2002 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Anonymous):
Hi!
> "I am positive that you are required to give the source to anyone that asks for it that got a binary from someone else."
> This quote is from the QuakeLives situation, which is very similar because it's all about a developer trying to weasel his way out of the GNU
> GPL. Slade argued that his "testers" were under NDA and had waived their rights under the GNU GPL. Carmack eventually offered to sue him,
> and he backed down.
I nowhere claimed an NDA would overwhelm the GPL. I claimed that a Beta
version is not an actual distribution. Completely different issue. But the whole
debate is sort of theoretical anyways, as even after YOUR view only people having
the Binary could demand the source code. And no such people asked for the source
code anyways. Someone who does not have the Binary cannot ask for source code
in ANY CASE.
Of course the whole issue (which seems to be coming up again and again) is because
the GPL is unexact. Usually contracts include a "definitions" part which clearly
define things which could be interpreted in two different ways (like the word
"distribution" in our case). But well - you have to take the licence like it is.
BTW: I nowhere said I would not be willing to accept the licence like you
claim above. I fully accept the GPL licence for Quake 2. So stop claiming it.
It is not true. I fully accept the GPL. By merely you claiming it it won't come to be truth automatically.
The conditions of the GPL are merily determined by the words of the GPL. Nothing
else. And this has nothing to do with "weasling out". You are trying to "weasle
something in" which is not there. Nowhere in the GPL there is something "distribution
includes Betaversions". For me - and many other developers - it is absolutely natural
that a distribution can only be a finished product.
I think this will be my last post on the issue. If you want to continue to
discuss it feel free to send me an email. You see my email address at the
post.
Steffen Haeuser
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 106 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jul-2002 11:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Steffen Haeuser):
"I claimed that a Beta version is not an actual distribution."
This claim has no basis whatsoever in law.
"Nowhere in the GPL there is something 'distribution includes Betaversions'."
It doesn't work that way, the GNU GPL is a copyright license. Get someone to explain that you please Steffen. Every right which is not granted in the license is reserved to the original copyright holder, in this case ID Software. If you want a special "beta tester" license to be written, call up ID Software and ask them. Otherwise simply obey the terms of the license you have.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 107 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 11-Jul-2002 13:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Anonymous):
Hi!
>"I claimed that a Beta version is not an actual distribution."
> This claim has no basis whatsoever in law.
I *did* inform myselves on it, and I was NOT told what you claim. Please
stop trying to make it look as if your OPINION would be the law. And stop
replying anonymously.
I did obey all terms of the GPL. By the way both *my* and *your* view of
the matter at hand,
as nobody having my Binary asked actually for my source. So the whole
discussion is sort of theoretic. Of course you now reached your goal,
messing up things up on the online forum and claiming negative
things about Hyperion Entertainment. Of course that's why you write
anonymously. Else I could have discussed this with you by private
email and no "silly dispute in public forum" effect would have happened.
But it seems to me that this is what you wanted.
If something is claimed often enough
people might just not care anymore if it is true or not and the damage
is already done.
And that's now my final word on it.
Steffen Haeuser
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 108 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jul-2002 16:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Steffen Haeuser):
>even if you'd count Beta-Versions as Distribution (what is NOT the case).
What is the border in your opinion? A very certain bunch of people/users/
friends/testers vs. an undefined group of people?
>If you don't put your name under something, you keep your mouth shut !
Haha, you wish!
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 109 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jul-2002 16:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Ben Yoris):
>rather than enjoying the fact that some new 3D games are coming to the Amiga.
Exactly, Ben!
New Rage Hard, jippieh - old Quake2, boooo! ;-)
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 110 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 11-Jul-2002 17:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Anonymous):
What does Rage Harde on the Mac have to do with anything?
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 111 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jul-2002 19:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (redrumloa):
At least I am on topic of this thread! :-)
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 112 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jul-2002 20:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Steffen Haeuser):
"I did obey all terms of the GPL."
Your description of the events elsewhere does not agree with that, have you changed your mind now ? Have all beta testers received the license agreement (as found in COPYING) and a written offer of source code ? Have you put in place whatever procedures are necessary to send source code to 3rd parties who want to make use of the offer ?
Several users with copies of the binary complained that you refused to give them the source code, claiming that you had "lost" it. Is that true? Do you understand what the license says about this ?
"If something is claimed often enough people might just not care anymore if it is true or not and the damage is already done."
See, that's exactly what I was talking about earlier. It's very important for us to make sure users know their rights. We have to make them care, so that when you pretend not to know your obligations they will ring bells and cry out.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 113 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by TBone on 11-Jul-2002 21:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Anonymous):
"Your description of the events elsewhere does not agree with that, have you changed your mind now ? Have all beta testers received the license agreement (as found in COPYING) and a written offer of source code ? Have you put in place whatever procedures are necessary to send source code to 3rd parties who want to make use of the offer ? "
Where was this "elsewhere" you mention?
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 114 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 12-Jul-2002 04:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Anonymous):
Still talking about the previous attempt to port it?
Not able to accept that some projects do get "rm -rf"'ed because they are a dead end? Get a life, moron. Go play Super Mario or something.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 115 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Jul-2002 10:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Ole-Egil):
"Get a life, moron."
Resorting to ad hominem attacks as soon as you enter a debate does you no favours.
The matter under discussion is Steffen and Hyperion's failure to obey the terms of a copyright license. He claims that he is obeying the license, but at every turn his own testimony contradicts the claim.
If you have something to say about Rage Hard screenshots, try replying to one of the earlier threads, or the body comment. Of course YOU don't care about getting source code to Amiga Quake II, after all Quake II runs fine on your PPC Linux box.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 116 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by TBone on 12-Jul-2002 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (TBone):
"Where was this "elsewhere" you mention? "
??
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 117 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 12-Jul-2002 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Anonymous):
@217.34.64.220
You really, really should get a life! You're trying desperately to find misconduct where there is none! You want a damn port source code, download the source yourself and port the damn thing yourself! Don't act like a worthless parasite jumping up and down screaming(anonymously of course), because you cannot get your way.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 118 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Coolio on 12-Jul-2002 14:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Anonymous):
>Must have been from a time CD-Rs were really precious and the burning drives
>dog slow...
Just because your time is worthless doesn't mean mine or anyone else's is. MORPHOS R00LZ!!!
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 119 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Jul-2002 17:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (TBone):
Read Steffen's rant in
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1014584647&category=unmoderated&start=1&60
Basically Steffen openly admits to destroying source code that he was legally obliged to make available, then says that "he has a different interpretation" and begins the same bizarre and unfounded line of reasoning that he has offered here, namely that he has an implicit license to distribute anything he likes to "beta testers" without obeying any copyright license or restriction that would apply.
In the same thread you'll also see Steffen announce that the port will be ready "soon". You would do well to treat that announcement with the same scepticism that's appropriate to his interpretation of Copyright law.
I would probably think Steffen was just naive and obstinate, except that we know Ben Hermans was consulted about this, and he does know enough about contract law to realise that his company is in breach. So that means it's probably deliberate.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 120 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 12-Jul-2002 17:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Anonymous):
@217.34.64.220
from reading all your comments you sound like your in the wrong to me......if you care so much about an unimportant grey area of the GPL then tell someone who cares. i bet the only reason some people want the source code is so they can do a quick dirty port from it to morphos so that they can say they have a game for thier OS.
heh
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 121 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Hanz Gruben on 12-Jul-2002 17:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Anonymous):
"http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1014584647&category=unmoderated&start=1&60 "
Hmmm... I think I agree. Has anything resulted from this? Is the source available? Obviously the binary was...
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 122 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Jul-2002 18:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (Leki):
You are wrong, MOS needs no OLD games like Quake2 for OS4...it's all about new
ones - and here we have a thread about Rage Hard. :-)
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 123 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 12-Jul-2002 18:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (Anonymous):
@212.185.249.88
Once again, reapeat after me, these are MacOS screenshots. MOS stands for MorphOS, not MacOS. What does Rage Harde on the Mac have to do with MOS?
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 124 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Hanz grub on 12-Jul-2002 18:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (redrumloa):
http://www.titan-computer.com/ami/ragehard/screens.html
it is in the "/ami/" directory.....
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 125 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 12-Jul-2002 19:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Hanz grub):
ami in the directory doesn`t mean much...i could open a site "amiga" in the link with pictures of quake 3 on but that doens`t mean its pictures of amiga quake 3.
and anyway "ami" is for Amiga right?....thats AmigaOS not morphos ;)
seriously though if they really do a morhOS version i bet there will also be an AmigaOS version aswell unless they want to lose money....so it wont be a morphos only game
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 126 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 12-Jul-2002 19:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (Anonymous):
like i said in my above comment i bet there will also be an AmigaOS version too and not only a morphos and mac version.
so dont get a Rage(ing) Hard(on) just yet thinking about your only morphos game :P
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 127 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Jul-2002 20:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Leki):
The page says it is for MorphOS and Titan boss Mr Garlich posted on the MorphOS
mailinglist something like this: "Hey folks, there are some new RH screenies at
<URL>, enjoy!". Why do you think he would come to the MOS (not MacOS) mailinglist
and mention this game if it was MacOS only as you want us to believe?
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 128 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Jul-2002 20:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (Anonymous):
Uhm...this comment should have gone to redrumloa, but then I doubt it has any
sense replying to him/her.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 129 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 13-Jul-2002 05:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (redrumloa):
Red ... IdSoft released Quake2 under gpl licence. No Hyperion guys is different for you in licence terms. They simply have a beta. It exists. FOR GPL YOU CAN REQUEST SOURCE AND SO ON FOR THAT BETA!
This is not our problem HOW, WHY and WHEN beta went around. STOP.
And "You want a damn port source code" ... ahahah and what have hyperion done? They have TAKEN IdSoft Quake 2 source, a source released under GPL!!! Now if you are able to read GO OUT AND READ THE WHOLE GPL LICENCE!
And stop supporting an ILLEGAL action.
Explanation of Illegal action:
a) a beta release is around; destroy IT that is our beta not for everyone (Hyperion)
b) tho a beta ... I want the sources! It's under GPL! (X-Amiga User)
c) We can't give ... we lost ... we don't know where it is ... (Hyperion)
THIS SEQUENCE OF ACTION IS **ILLEGAL** FOR GPL LICENCE. Keep this in your mind!
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 130 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 13-Jul-2002 05:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (Leki):
Sigh ... the warpup beta runs perfectly under the latest MorhOS internal beta, as Shogo and Heretic 2.
Not only ... Quake2 source (the real one) would be easiest to port than a specific WarpUp modified version ...
But really I start to thing that a lot of stupid trolls are sure that Hyperion created Quake 2. This is absolutely inacceptable.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 131 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 13-Jul-2002 13:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Anonymous):
>Uhm...this comment should have gone to redrumloa, but then I doubt it has any
>sense replying to him/her.
You don't like that I am pointing out the obvious? The very directory the pics are in say they're screenshots taken from an ATI Radeon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CyberGraphX PPC V5 currently has native support for the following hardware:
- Work is in progress to support more options and platforms
Hardware (CPU / Platform)
bplan PEGASOS - PPC G3/G4
DCE/Phase5 CyberStormPPC - PPC 604
DCE/Phase5 BlizzardPPC - PPC 603e
Supported Graphics Cards
Permedia2 based PCI cards
SiS6326 based PCI cards
Voodoo3 based PCI cards
Voodoo4 based PCI cards
Voodoo5 based PCI cards
CyberVisionPPC
BlizzardVisionPPC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to piss on your parade but Radeon is not included in that list. Unless the MOS is being very secretive about Radeon support, there is no support! Some people have told me they ARE secretly working on other gfx card drivers, but I have a hard time believing they wouldn't hype up anything possible.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 132 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 13-Jul-2002 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (redrumloa):
The list on morphos.de only lists hardware drivers that are out of beta pahse.
Drivers will be announced when they are ready.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 133 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 13-Jul-2002 14:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (David Scheibler):
>The list on morphos.de only lists hardware drivers that are out of beta pahse.
Exactly my point! If these Rage Harde pics are from MOS with a Radeon gfx card, then a beta driver would have to exist! I can't see mature screenshots coming from an Alpha or lower driver.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 134 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 13-Jul-2002 14:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (redrumloa):
Read again.
Drivers that are no longer in beta phase.
BTW: SiS 305 isn't listed also on that page.
new Screenshots of Rage Harde released : Comment 135 of 135ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jul-2002 17:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (redrumloa):
I strongly hope Radeon drivers are in the works for MOS and maybe these screenshots
from Rage Hard running on MOS show it is actually in a usable state. :-)
On the other hand Mr Garlich did not reply when being asked about the specs of
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