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[News] OS 4 coverage on OS newsANN.lu
Posted on 15-Jul-2002 06:57 GMT by SimplePPC116 comments
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Mike Bouma did an excellent write-up on OS 4 for OS news. Includes 5 unreleased screenshots. The article can be found here.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 1 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 15-Jul-2002 05:09 GMT
looks good :)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 2 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by NihilVor on 15-Jul-2002 05:23 GMT
Some of these screen shots were unofficially released, but check out the requesters. :)
http://www.stormloader.com/amiga/osnews/amiga5.htm
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 3 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 15-Jul-2002 05:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (NihilVor):
I can confirm that the screenshots are genuine.
They are still only intended to give you an idea about the degree of configurability and flexibility we are introducing into the AmigaOS GUI.
They do not therefore represent the final appearance of OS 4.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 4 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Jul-2002 05:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (NihilVor):
The icons in the requesters look great. Nice and colourful.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 5 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 15-Jul-2002 06:39 GMT
The full size images are broken, have they been removed?
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 6 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Bifford the Youngest on 15-Jul-2002 06:50 GMT
The full size images work just fine here, you probably hit the server at a busy time! Try again.
<br><br>
A nice informative article that I enjoyed reading. Cheers!
<br><br>
The new screenshots look good too - though they REALLY need to do some grabs on a much higher screenmode!!!! I think they are using under 800x600 here which is pretty naff! They would also be able to show a lot more GUI examples if they used a higher screenmode!!
<br><br>
TTFN
<br>Bifford.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 7 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Bifford on 15-Jul-2002 06:52 GMT
heheheheh. ignore the <br>'s - I forget which website comments pages need these and which dont! Obviously I got it wrong this time...!!
Biff
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 8 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 15-Jul-2002 07:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bifford the Youngest):
I've just looked at the sourcecode. It's not so much the server, more like the crap browser I'm using that refuses to display PNGs.
God I hate you Internet Explorer.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 9 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 15-Jul-2002 07:14 GMT
Hey Ben
"Screenshots" are nice.. but how about a status-report on some of the other important things in AmigaOS4 ? :)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 10 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Jul-2002 07:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
The "amiga1" shot still shows one of the worst design features of
Reaction. Look at the GUI Preferences window. At the top is a
horizontal rule with the word "Colors" in the middle, and a vestigial
rule with the word "Subsystem".
This is a truly horrible feature. The rule is not half way up the
text, the positioning appears to be random. The gap in the rule has
more pixels on one side than the other. The rule itself is
unattractive.
If it is really necessary to have sections in windows, some much more
elegant way of marking them out has to be found.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 11 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Erixon on 15-Jul-2002 07:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I was under the impression that Hyperion / Amiga Inc had hired the person who designed the "Glow Icons" glyphs - and that the same person would be in charge of an extensive overhaul of the Intuition apperance. About a year ago, some screenshots were released on what to expect from the upcoming version of Intuition. Active windows were rendered with a "glowing" border, there were rounded corners and shapes and similar stuff suggesting a lot had to be changed inside the Intuition engine. Although I'm sure it has, I'd still like to know whether or not these screenshots and features have been put on hold? (it's not that it doesn't look OK as is - but I'm just wondering just what to expect in terms of visual apperance, that's all).
Keep up the good work, Hyperion!
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 12 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Budda on 15-Jul-2002 07:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Peter Erixon):
Wasn't all that glowing window lark for the AmigaDE desktop?
Would be totally col if AmigaOS4 could do that instead though!!
I read that OS4 is to have memory protection - I thought that wasn't possible for AmigaOS? Not that i've been keeping track of everything OS4 over the past couple of years...
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 13 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 15-Jul-2002 07:37 GMT
Re: http://www.stormloader.com/amiga/osnews/amiga5.htm
...Indeed, nice icons. Of course, those single-option "dialogs" are examples of the most commonly made mistake in WIMP UI- providing a dialog with no choice. So... while I don't beg grand leaps in 4.0, I do feel it is "dangerous" to provide demo graphics making them; programmers have this bad habit of following a perceived "style" from such things.
Example fixes would be:
(i) No Match Found for Your Search: [Dismiss] [Search New Term]
(!) Warning: System is Overheating: [Shutdown] [Continue]
(x) Error: User is not paying attention: - Hm, too vague to make a guess at.
(->) Please insert volume Destroyed into any drive: [Ok] [Cancel Operation]
Of course, it's nitpicking. "Removable devices support" also elicits a chuckle, but mainly because of the SHEEP PR a while back. (Actually, that's a tough one, especially if you can select multiple devices for operations... and would [Refresh] be refreshing the state of the selected device(s), or every removable in the list?)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 14 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 15-Jul-2002 07:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
You don't really think that there's an own Requester in the OS especially for "System is Overheating", do you ?
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 15 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll on 15-Jul-2002 07:46 GMT
These screenshots look so much better than the first ones. I know OS 4.0 might not look like this when its released, I have to say it looks quite nice right now.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 16 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 15-Jul-2002 07:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Budda):
Yes that GUI was for AmigaDE.
Eugenia asked me last year to get her into contact with Wouter van Oortmessen. Wouter included a screenshot, with the same GUI you guys are talking about. This interesting interview can be read here:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=169
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 17 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Treke on 15-Jul-2002 07:52 GMT
Hmm, still a bit ugly look , but yes I like it more than previous.
re
Treke
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 18 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Jul-2002 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Treke):
"Hmm, still a bit ugly look , but yes I like it more than previous. "
Reaction as it is now is a terrible place to start from. It is
certainly looking better.
The tabs seem less ugly, but there are still problems at the top right
corner, where it goes from light to shadow. Ideally, a third colour
should be used, but making one more pixel light rather than
dark improves the look here.
Grab the browser screen into PPaint, follow the curve of the tab
around, and make the first dark pixel light. See what you think.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 19 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 15-Jul-2002 08:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Peter Erixon):
I think that "glowing" screenshot was AmigaDE screenshot, not AmigaOS. And that GUI looked ugly. I really don't want "glowing" borders to windows anyway. Glow effect looks quite good in icons, but not in windowborders. Magicmenu-like dropshadow might maybe look good though :)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 20 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Lando / Trinity on 15-Jul-2002 08:30 GMT
Another very informative and well-written article, just as we've come to expect from Mike. I'm glad he mentions the demoscene too - it's one of the things that keeps me here.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 21 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Jul-2002 08:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Don Cox):
"If it is really necessary to have sections in windows, some much more
elegant way of marking them out has to be found. "
For example, look how it is done in MUI. There is a complete outline
around each section, and the line is level with the baseline of the
text, not some indeterminate level about half way up. It looks much
better in MUI.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 22 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Young on 15-Jul-2002 08:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
Firstly, screenshots look excellent. My keyboard is filling up with drool again :-) I can't wait to get my hands on AmigaOne+OS4 and want it more and more everytime I see new pictures. Good job guys (and gals?).
> (x) Error: User is not paying attention: - Hm, too vague to make a guess at.
How about: "Make loud noise" | "Let user sleep"
> (->) Please insert volume Destroyed into any drive: [Ok] [Cancel Operation]
Of course this is a standard requestor in AmigaOS, and would usually have the options "Retry" | "Cancel" (retry being of little use anyway, as AmigaOS auto-detects when the disk has been inserted, often picking up that a disk with the same label is not the correct disk)
Those are just example requestor designs (probably created with something like RequestChoice) - not real requests!
Chris
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 23 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Gavin on 15-Jul-2002 08:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
I feel that they are too colourful and distract from the message. All a matter of opinion though.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 24 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Per Lindén on 15-Jul-2002 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Rik Sweeney):
I've tried with Mozilla, Opera and Internet Explorer and at the moment none of them will show those screenshoots. Can someone maybe mail them to me?!? Please?!?
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 25 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Solar on 15-Jul-2002 09:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Budda):
@ Budda:
> I read that OS4 is to have memory protection - I thought that
> wasn't possible for AmigaOS?
AmigaOS *4* will have memory protection. AmigaOS *3.x* applications will not benefit from that, since they will be run in a OS 3.x "sandbox". In a sense, your OS 4 applications will be protected from the OS 3.x sandbox and vice versa, but an OS 3.x app running amok will still be able to kill everything in the sandbox. (AFAIK, as always.)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 26 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Janne Sirén on 15-Jul-2002 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Solar):
>AmigaOS *4* will have memory protection. AmigaOS *3.x* applications will not
>benefit from that, since they will be run in a OS 3.x "sandbox". In a sense,
>your OS 4 applications will be protected from the OS 3.x sandbox and vice
>versa, but an OS 3.x app running amok will still be able to kill everything
>in the sandbox. (AFAIK, as always.)
That is how one would hope it works. However, I have not read anywhere that it actually does that. I don't remember the details how they were laid out, but I don't recall talk of a sandbox for OS 3.x applications in OS 4? It was more on the lines that you can turn it on and off, and it will break some applications if on - and misuse of MEMF_PUBLIC may distort something as well? It would be cool, though, if it does have a sandbox.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 27 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 15-Jul-2002 10:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Solar):
AmigaOS *4* will have memory protection. AmigaOS *3.x* applications will not benefit from that, since they will be run in a OS 3.x "sandbox". In a sense, your OS 4 applications will be protected from the OS 3.x sandbox and vice versa, but an OS 3.x app running amok will still be able to kill everything in the sandbox. (AFAIK, as always.)
---
This is not "memory-protection" anymore than running UAE
or Amithlon.
AOS4 will have something more, not sure what, but Ive always
thought something in the lines of mmu.library functionality.
Leif
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 28 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 15-Jul-2002 10:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Leif):
Yes, this is correct.
68K programs won't really run in a sandbox as such but will run as tasks scheduled by Exec SG.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 29 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 15-Jul-2002 10:14 GMT
mmmm workbench that looks clean on monitors and look like it didn't come from '92 :)
good work , when can i pre-order ;)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 30 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Jul-2002 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Per Lindén):
Can't mail them because they seem to be blocked to prevent
downloading.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 31 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Jul-2002 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
So long as SnoopDOS still runs and reports on all programs, it will be
OK.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 32 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Per Lindén on 15-Jul-2002 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Don Cox):
I already got them mailed. Thanks Viktor! :)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 33 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 15-Jul-2002 10:26 GMT
Good article. Positive without seeming overly fanatic.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 34 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Viktor Schöneberg on 15-Jul-2002 10:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Per Lindén):
@Per
At your service :-)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 35 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Hi on 15-Jul-2002 10:38 GMT
Using Internet Explorer. I can't seem to view the full-size screenshots.
What's wrong? Is there a mirror somewhere?
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 36 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-Jul-2002 10:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Hi):
"Using Internet Explorer. I can't seem to view the full-size screenshots.
What's wrong? Is there a mirror somewhere? "
What's wrong is that you are not using a standards-compliant browser.
;-)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 37 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Viktor Schöneberg on 15-Jul-2002 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Hi):
I wanted to put the pictures on my server, but there
are some problems with that right now...
Anybody want them?
Just mail... :-)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 38 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 15-Jul-2002 10:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Gavin):
I think colourful desktop is much nicer to use than OS3.x standard grey. I like colourful Workbench. O3.5/OS3.9 looks great with Glowicons, birdie, ReqAttack, and 24bit background picture. I think standard OS3. Ofcourse if you use WB in one of the AGA-modes then it's better use less colourful screenmode. But I have used Workbench in 24bit mode couple of years already and I really think colourful WB is more fun to use.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 39 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 15-Jul-2002 10:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
Hrm, I meant i think standard OS3.1 looks too grey.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 40 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Viktor Schöneberg on 15-Jul-2002 11:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Viktor Schöneberg):
Hi Amiga freaks :-)
Got the pictures online:
www.stud.mw.tum.de/~vs2/Screen1.png
www.stud.mw.tum.de/~vs2/Screen2.png
www.stud.mw.tum.de/~vs2/Screen3.png
www.stud.mw.tum.de/~vs2/Screen4.png
www.stud.mw.tum.de/~vs2/Screen5.png
enjoy :-)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 41 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 15-Jul-2002 11:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Anders Kjeldsen):
It would be good to be able to detect temperature of CPU and rotation speed of the FAN... Maybe we need new version of AmigaTemp or something :) I hope it's possible to run Amigatemp with Amigaone anyway..., because i use AmigaTemp daily.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 42 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Y on 15-Jul-2002 11:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Solar):
> AmigaOS *4* will have memory protection. AmigaOS *3.x* applications will not
> benefit from that, since they will be run in a OS 3.x "sandbox". In a sense,
> your OS 4 applications will be protected from the OS 3.x sandbox and vice
> versa, but an OS 3.x app running amok will still be able to kill everything
> in the sandbox. (AFAIK, as always.)
As I understand, all memory allocated will be protected, unless it is allocated as MEMF_PUBLIC(?). However, a lot of old programs didn't follow the spec on memory allocation and will break with this protection. So, you can switch it on and off (not sure whether this is system-wide or "per app")
Chris
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 43 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 15-Jul-2002 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Don Cox):
>What's wrong is that you are not using a standards-compliant browser. ;-)
AHAHAH! And the sad truth is, your 100% right. :)
The screenshots do look nice though. I only hope there is a 'default setup' with the 3D gadgets you get in visualprefs. I'm just too used to them but i'll draw em up myself if need be. I wonder if they will stick to the flat look gadgets for the defaults though? Always has been the blue borders and flat gadgets as defaults(post 1.3), wonder if they will change it? I'm kinda hopeing they dont on one hand. Simply from a nostalgic viewpoint. Anyway who WON'T spend the first few days just tinkering with the GUI and every little detail? :)
Anyone remember WBstars? It animates your backdrop. Wonder if it will work with the new intuition and everything else thats changed. It WAS a hack afterall. But it would look pretty cool with all the window borders etc alpha blended. :)
GRUNT
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 44 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 15-Jul-2002 11:22 GMT
I think those pictures look quite good :) By the way did you notice that some of the windows are partly out of the screen ? I wonder if that's OS4 feature and not some dirty hack like PowerWindows or what it's name was. PowerWindows PowerWB or somethinglike that.
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 45 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 15-Jul-2002 11:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
>I wonder if that's OS4 feature and not some dirty hack like PowerWindows or what it's name was. PowerWindows PowerWB or somethinglike that.
Yes it is. I only hope i can switch the feature off. I hate windows that hang outside the screen borders. How are you supposed to drag it back with only a gadget in the top bar showing? What if it opens outside the screens dimentions? And it looks sloppy to me anyways. If you really need more room, open a new pubscreen. IMHO of course.
GRUNT
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 46 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 15-Jul-2002 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
I have it on good authority that OS4 intuition allows windows to be outside of the screen as standard. There is no need to hack anything when you are re-writing intuition itself :)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 47 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 15-Jul-2002 11:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Chris Young):
>as AmigaOS auto-detects when the disk has been inserted
It's actually a "feature" of the floppy disk drive (the famous annoying clicking sound every few seconds)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 48 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 15-Jul-2002 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Gavin):
>I feel that they are too colourful and distract from the message.
It's a one line message, not War and Peace. If anything they need to catch your attention. If you can't concentrate on few words because the colors are distracting, oh well... ;-)
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 49 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 15-Jul-2002 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (AmiTroll):
> I hate windows that hang outside the screen borders. How are you supposed to
> drag it back with only a gadget in the top bar showing?
If you can drag out of the screen's border you can put it back in the same way, don't you think? There's no way you can lose a window outside the screen moving it by hand.
> What if it opens outside the screens dimentions?
I'f it's completely out of the screen, then you cannot manually put it inside the screen, but this is something that can happen only if the programmer decided it to happen, therefore I don't see the problem.
Fabio Alemagna
OS 4 coverage on OS news : Comment 50 of 116ANN.lu
Posted by kjetil on 15-Jul-2002 11:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (amigammc):
>It's actually a "feature" of the floppy disk drive (the famous annoying clicking sound every >few seconds)
This is actually wrong it not an feature of the floppy disk drive, it’s an feature of the floppy disk controller, I remember hacking an PC 1.44 drive to work as an 880k Amiga drive by holding the /MOT signal wile the right floppy select unit number is low using nand logic or data-gates
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