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[News] AmigaOne Update from Alan RedhouseANN.lu
Posted on 24-Jul-2002 22:17 GMT by Douglas McLaughlin106 comments
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On the AmigaOne mailing list, Alan Redhouse from Eyetech posted the following update:

Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount rather than their ability to contribute to the developer process. The initial boards were therefore shipped to those who could make a real contribution to developing drivers etc, and porting Linux/UAE distributions. Their progress has been astounding IMO with no less than 5 different linux distributions (SuSE, Debian, Mandrake, Yellow Dog and TurboLinux) being ported within a couple of weeks. More... Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount rather than their ability to contribute to the developer process. The initial boards were therefore shipped to those who could make a real contribution to developing drivers etc, and porting Linux/UAE distributions. Their progress has been astounding IMO with no less than 5 different linux distributions (SuSE, Debian, Mandrake, Yellow Dog and TurboLinux) being ported within a couple of weeks.

However the Softex open firmware we had originally shipped with the dev boards (incidently as seen on the Pegasos video) has several shortcomings (although this has been used to boot the 5 linux distributions and the OS4 kernel) and we are currently developing/extending the alternative PPCBoot open firmware for use on the production AmigaOne boards. This will allow us to build in Amiga- specific boot etc options, a well as a more comprehensive multi-boot environment.

We are not shipping the remainder of the dev boards (or any of the user boards) until this code is complete because of the expense of shipping update ROMs and chip changing tools. This is anticipated to be towards the end of August.

This revision to the boot ROM is being undertaken by Hyperion as part of the work necessary for booting OS4 on the A1.

Meanwhile the Amiga Inc club membership/coupon program results (coupled with our own market extrapolation processes) means that the future of the AmigaOne is in no doubt.

Finally several people have asked us why we are not delivering the A1 board to Linux users in advance of the release of OS4. Well there are two main reasons:

1 - This is a product we are producing for the Amiga market and IMO it is proper that the Amiga community get their hands on it first.

2 - I still cannot see why there would be a significant market for Linux on the A1 given that the main focus of Linux is the x86 platform, which - because of sheer sales volumes - will always be an order of magnitude cheaper than a ppc-based product.

Hope this helps

Alan
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 1 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Alan M Redhouse on 24-Jul-2002 20:31 GMT
Why did you not post the complete comment. Its taking and posting things out of conext like this which inevititably gives\rise to flame wars. StillI suppose posting first makes you feel important.
The actual comment started (in response to a previous thread):
"From: "eyetech_group" <alan-r@t...>
Date: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:39 pm
Subject: Re: More Foolishness Was: Yet more delays
--- In amigaone@y..., "jtsiren" <jtsiren@y...> wrote:
> --- In amigaone@y..., NeRP <nerp@t...> wrote:
> > Hello jpkurki
> (...)
> > [cutting all the whining, sniveling, crying, doomsaying, and
> generally
> > negative attitude out]
> (...)
> > Regards
> > NeRP
> This post is not to say anything other than to acknowledge, at
least
> by someone, that Joanna, despite her views as they have been
> presented here, has truly given something back to the community and
> supported a cause she hoped she could belive in.
>
> I respect her for that, and I do believe she deserves to be treated
> better than called "whining, sniveling, crying, doomsaying, and
> generally negative" without any effort to offer constructive
> arguments.
I have to say I agree with Joanne and Janne. If I was in Joanna's
shoes I'd be asking exactly the same questions. The problem is that
this list is public, and whatever I (or the rest of the Amigaone
partners) say it gets copied, misinterpreted and severely criticised
on the other newslists like ann etc.
So what do we do? We make a closed list like the A1G3dev list - which
is highly democratic, productive and busy but is by invitation only -
or we release interim information to this list with all the time
consuming extra explanations needed after cross postings by the
cerebrally-challanged or malicious readers hereabouts.
Nevertheless I think its time for a brief update.
Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount
rather than their ability to contribute to the developer process. The
initial boards were therefore shipped to those who could make a real
contribution to developing drivers etc, and porting Linux/UAE
distributions. Their progress has been astounding IMO with no less
than 5 different linux distributions (SuSE, Debian, Mandrake, Yellow
Dog and TurboLinux) being ported within a couple of weeks."
etc
Alan
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 2 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Douglas McLaughlin on 24-Jul-2002 21:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Alan M Redhouse):
I cut out the extra stuff because I felt THAT part would cause the flame wars. I'm also a firm believer in only quoting the relevent portions. Everything before the update was only relevent on the mailing list. I tried to be responsible, oh well. Better luck next time.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 3 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by LOL-troll on 24-Jul-2002 21:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Alan M Redhouse):
Aaah, that really helps.
"StillI suppose posting first makes you feel important."
" > > [cutting all the whining, sniveling, crying, doomsaying, and
> generally
> > negative attitude out] "
"cross postings by the cerebrally-challanged or malicious readers hereabouts."
" Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount
rather than their ability to contribute to the developer process." (Shock, horror!)
Nice to see the monopolist's flag still being held up high. "F*ck you, stupid customer. We're your only option, and things ain't changing any time soon in that department as long as we make the licensing rules."
As for the "news"...
* Yay, PPC linux distros tweaked, oh... "ported"... to run on yet another piece of POP/CHRP hw.
* The OS4 kernel has booted. My my, an either non-existent or non-functional kernel booting. That's a feat.
* The firmware is still not updated.
* "This revision to the boot ROM is being undertaken by Hyperion as part of the work necessary for booting OS4 on the A1." - Yeah, cripple and lock down that OS real hard, boys. Gawd forbid it would ever run on anything missing an Eyetech sticker.
* Amiga Inc's sales of t-shirts means that Eyetech can buy hardware. Umm...
* There's no market for Linux on pop/chrp. Oh. I guess that's news after all! Thank you IBM, for being so far-sighted and wise to release the pop specs solely for the vast Amiga OS market. But if you're talking about the dongled version of the mobos bundled with Amiga OS things have of course not changed.
* Eyetech still think they can convince people they're "producing" anything, and "for the Amiga market" no less. :D
* Film at 11.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 4 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin01311 on 24-Jul-2002 21:06 GMT
>>"Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount rather than their ability to contribute to the developer process."
I think Alan fails to understand that many Amiga users who have no doubt that Hyperion will deliver OS4 are more than happy to take delivery of the motherboard just so they can build their dream-machine while they wait for Hyperion to release the OS. In the mean time, they can play with Linux while they "burn-in" their components.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 5 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 24-Jul-2002 21:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Douglas McLaughlin):
>I cut out the extra stuff because I felt THAT part would cause the flame wars.
Oh, I see, censorship ;p
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 6 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Jul-2002 21:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Alan M Redhouse):
You want a flame war? Just promise what you can't deliver.
The AmigaOne G3SE was claimed to be production ready. It was supposed to be delivered in April. Instead, after 9 weeks of ridiculous doublespeak from people like Ole-Egil it was finally admitted that Eyetech had only obtained a handful of boards, and still hadn't delivered any of them to the customers who ordered them.
Then a big show was made of delivering that handful of boards to very visible personalities such as Ole-Egil and Rose, who have since vanished altogether.
In June the official story was that the majority of your customers had "agreed" to wait for a special version of Linux being developed by the so-called experts who had already received boards. The experts OTOH seemed comfortable enough following a few simple lines of instructions and using any ordinary PPC Linux distribution.
Now the story is that the firmware is not, after all, production ready, and there will be a further delay of at least another five weeks.
I'm not sure how good your arithmetic is Alan, so I'll help you out by telling you that these boards, ordered in good faith by customers who believed in your company and your ability to deliver a product (despite warnings from people like myself) are now going to be FOUR MONTHS LATE
You run a computer hardware business Alan. What does four months mean in your business ? If I made you sell February stock at February prices in todays market, how long could you stay in business ? What do UK mail order rules say about purchases which take an "unreasonably long time" ?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 7 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by TBone on 24-Jul-2002 21:39 GMT
Holy COW man, give the poor man a freaking break! This whole A1/OS4 project is being rushed like all getout!! Slow down, take it easy, and let then do their work. Remember, this is a virgin platform.
Believe me, the boards will be ready MUCH earlier than OS4 will be, so relax.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 8 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Douglas McLaughlin on 24-Jul-2002 21:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (darklite):
Yes, darklite, I see your ;p There is certainly a long way to go yet before anything in the Amiga community hits true censorship.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 9 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Douglas McLaughlin on 24-Jul-2002 21:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
> Then a big show was made of delivering that handful of boards to very visible
> personalities such as Ole-Egil and Rose, who have since vanished altogether.
Really!?!?! I've certainly seen a large number of posts from the both of them over the past few weeks. ;-)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 10 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Timothy De Groote on 24-Jul-2002 22:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Mr anonymous, seems a lot of people have this name, especially the weenies.
It is not your place to argue about how Eyetech does buisiness, if you have any complaints direct it to them instead. As said before i OWN one of the AmigaONE boards and the only reason not more developers have them is to get the firmware going first. As you might recall the first Pegasos boards ALSO had Softex PowerROM and they are also switching to something else according to mpegs being distributed on the internet. I can tell you that once past initial problems i got my board running nice and easy, i played SIN, saw Mozilla, Realplayer 8 etc..
THose 800+ people rather have a PERFECT product 4 months late then a buggy product being NOT repaired, not sent back or overheating if you don't use a huge ventilator (mine is blowing right now).
And to all people who ARE still hanging in there and bought the coupon...WELL DONE ! and i expect to see you all at a new Amiga fair all with your personalised Amiga's. I'm thinking of calling mine the Timo-One, after i AM Amiga too !
TImothy
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 11 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Joanna on 24-Jul-2002 22:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (TBone):
Agree.. Seeing these reactions to Alan's announcement makes me wonder how much hatred and mistrust are among current and ex Amiga users. OTOH considering what has happened on last 10 years who's to blame? There have been so much cheating and lies from various 'Amiga saviours' that no-one will belive any announcement anymore.
After saying that much about beliving... Be free to quess do I belive it?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 12 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 24-Jul-2002 22:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (TBone):
I think alot of people fail to understand the time things take , linux wasn't built in a day ( IIRC according to linus' book "just for fun" the first versions took many months of intensive progging , he also considered the amiga before he bought his pc ).
The amigaOne *hardware* certainly looks finished , and the *amiga OS* firmware can only be produced when the Os 4 project is at that stage , if you want to use linux on it any firmware will probaly do , but you have to consider the way in which amiga Os currently boots itself from harddrive ... The point is it *doesn't* AmigaOs is there when you turn the machine on from *rom* and then loads extension type software from the harddrive. Therefor a true port of the amigaOS source is going to need somewhere in the hardware to spring from or a bios that will pull it from the harddrive much like the IA64 platform.
Basically on PC like hardware ( not X86 , but in the structure , e.g. the OS isn't based mostly in a ROM directly implanted on the board ) AmigaOS is going to need a few changes to the way it works , this is on top of porting it to a new CPU and constructing a way of running the old CPU's code amongst other improvements.
Basically it'll be ready when its ready and any bitching isn't going to help and just means the people involved in doing the work decide to not read these places and we loose a way of giving input and ideas directly to the people that count.
If you want the time to go quicker , go and do something !! make something for amigaOs , anything , afterall the watch pot never boils.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 13 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 24-Jul-2002 22:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Alan M Redhouse):
>StillI suppose posting first makes you feel important.
>whatever I (or the rest of the Amigaone
>partners) say it gets copied, misinterpreted
Only an unclear phrase can be misinterpreted
>and severely criticised
Oh, we are afraid of criticism, aren't we...
>after cross postings by the cerebrally-challanged
>or malicious readers hereabouts.
Yep, you definitely don't need anyone giving you business suggestions, you got it all right.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 14 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by 1-2-2019 on 24-Jul-2002 23:49 GMT
Sigh, poor boot rom. The old one was described as so
nice and so perfect by Amiga fans, and now it's being
dropped.
Well, there are still 17 years to spend in executive
updates, announcements, updates, release notes and flames.
Maybe someday this story will get an happy end, for now
the roadmap is full of delays, A1 will not ship before some
more months, AmigaDE products simply aren't there (or aren't
at all).
Guess what? There still are 17 years, then...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2147879.stm
... kabooooooom!
A very good excuse for a little bigger... delay ;-)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 15 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Jul-2002 23:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (cOrpse):
" I think alot of people fail to understand the time things take "
Which people? These people ... ?
"The first release of AmigaOS4 is targeted for Summer 2001"
"All parties are now working flat out once more to ensure that OS4.0 and
the AmigaOne can now be launched in tandem early in the New Year."
"Regarding OS4: We're aiming at a release to developers in march."
ALL of these companies have a track record to be ashamed of. From AInc (still selling Party Packs to anyone gullible enough to buy them) to Eyetech (accepting orders for a product they knew they couldn't deliver) and Hyperion (most software they offer to port is never released, will OS 4 be different ?)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 16 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by George on 25-Jul-2002 02:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
>>and Hyperion (most software they offer to port is never released, will OS 4 be >>different ?)
Hmmmm. I must have imagined playing SHOGO, HERETIC2 and FREESPACE on my PC...silly me.
Oh you're refering to SIN and WORMS.....right.....
SIN is complete - waiting on AmigaOne....and Worms is on hold whilst OS4 is done...or would you prefer Hyperion release WORMS first, and put OS4 on hold.
Sheesh u guys crack me up...
George.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 17 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 02:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Alan M Redhouse):
This type of insulting crap from Mr Redhouse puts me right off Eyetech.
Although Hyperion do seem to be working hard.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 18 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll on 25-Jul-2002 02:52 GMT
As usual everyones jumping up and down about Amiga Inc/Hyperion/Eyetech...
Heres one good comment to balance the bad: Good thinking Eyetech. You've thought this out well. Try not to let the negative comments affect you, Amiga fans are excited by what you guys are trying to achieve. Well, most of us I'd like to think.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 19 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Jantzen on 25-Jul-2002 03:34 GMT
It wasn't a big deal for me - I can't imagine what I'd do with a pre-production board. Lets face it - changes will be made. So why buy one unless your either a PPC freak, an Amiga freak, or just like fiddeling around with expensive hardware. Thats why I mentioned to a few people - don't buy one unless you are a serious developer - serious about developing either ppc linux or amiga dos 4 software.
My biggest worry is that people who pre-paid won't ever get a board. Lets face it - right now is a bad time to be building a computer company.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 20 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 04:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (George):
I can't say whether you imagined playing games on your PC, after all we're talking about Amiga software here.
We're talking about Soldier of Fortune, SiN and Worms: Armageddon, all of which Hyperion officially announced for release in 1999 or 2000, as well as Majesty which was supposed to have been released eighteen months ago.
ie I am establishing that Hyperion have a very poor record when it comes to delivering what they promised, and especially when it comes to doing so remotely on time. Whatever the reasons their own policy (encourage upgrades by shipping lots of new software) is undermined by this.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 21 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 25-Jul-2002 04:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (LOL-troll):
Get a life will ya ? It seriously seems you don't have one.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 22 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 25-Jul-2002 04:07 GMT
Ok, I'm leaving this site. I'm not going to read any comments here anymore because this whole site is just full of rubbish,, morons and fighting. :P It's sad that some idiots makje the whole site unreadable :P
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 23 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 25-Jul-2002 04:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Alan M Redhouse):
> Why did you not post the complete comment. Its taking and posting things out
> of context like this which inevititably gives\rise to flame wars. Still I
> suppose posting first makes you feel important.
The way I see it, the relevant parts were quoted. You pretty much composed the mail in two parts, separated by the "Nevertheless I think its time for a brief update." bit, and where the first part is only relevant mailing list members.
May I also remind you that while whatever you say might get "copied, misinterpreted and severely criticised" on sites like ANN, it is also thanks to the major news sites that there is still a market for you to sell on... After all, where else would you get free exposure to thousands of readers and prospective buyers? Certainly not on a closed mailing list with just a few members.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 24 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Brad on 25-Jul-2002 04:21 GMT
ummm... Wasn't the board already built for the existin Linux PPC ports?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 25 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 25-Jul-2002 04:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
Or perhaps you could just ignore the comments altogether, but keep scanning the headlines - that's what the Newsticker is for...
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 26 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Glenn on 25-Jul-2002 05:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
I think there may be a few who would like to sell you stock today at Fe. prices... (:
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 27 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 05:56 GMT
I'm surprised nobody noticed here that PPCBoot is not an OpenFirmware
and therefore Eyetech's product won't be CHRP/POP compliant anymore.
PPCBoot is a boot bios based on Linux for embedded devices and nothing
more.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 28 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 06:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
And still, people like you whine about that they don't give us any release dates anymore. It doesn't matter what they do, people will always complain. Give it a break, for christ sake! Don't you have anything better to do, like dating a girl/courting your girlfriend/washing your car/whatever...?
Geez...
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 29 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 06:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous):
Who claimed the AmigaOne was going to be POP/CHRP in the first place? Noone. The fact that the AmigaOne design is based on a POP design is just because it happened to be the most cost effective and practical solution at the time, not because they intended the AmigaOne or AmigaOS4 to be a POP platform.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 30 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Allsopp on 25-Jul-2002 06:31 GMT
>Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount
>rather than their ability to contribute to the developer process.
..
>The initial boards were therefore shipped to those who could make a
>real contribution to developing drivers etc, and porting Linux/UAE
>distributions.
<shite cut>
>Finally several people have asked us why we are not delivering the A1
>board to Linux users in advance of the release of OS4. Well there are
>two main reasons:
>1 - This is a product we are producing for the Amiga market and IMO it
>is proper that the Amiga community get their hands on it first.
Sounds like a contradiction to me!!!
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 31 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 25-Jul-2002 06:31 GMT
Let's not forget that the number of "dev boards" available wasn't well-known until after Slashdot and the like had been spammed. Nobody wanted to speak word of the apparent chipset shortage (and judging by the presumable firmware or oscillator bugs, it's a good thing more weren't made, or we'd have a lot of underclocked boxes around)...
Now, it's totally understandable *why* nobody wanted to spill the beans, but that's whence the problem sprung. The exact breadth of "developer" wasn't clearly defined, and as "Amiga-internal" availability (Eyetech selling to AInc. and Hyperion) had no reason to be promoted publically beyond the "Hey, they've got boards!" sense, most people assumed it was for anyone 'hardcore' or 'masochistic' enough to run Linux.
Now, this got pretty well cleared up at some point, and if weeding out the 90% accomplished what was necessary to keep OS4 rolling, so be it. It'd be nice if it were acknowledged as a necessary failure to communicate, so we could get on with life instead of having these silly flamewars.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 32 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Alan M Redhouse on 25-Jul-2002 06:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Christian Kemp):
Christian
"May I also remind you that while whatever you say might get "copied, misinterpreted and severely criticised" on sites like ANN, it is also thanks to the major news sites that there is still a market for you to sell on... After all, where else would you get free exposure to thousands of readers and prospective buyers? Certainly not on a closed mailing list with just a few members."
I think that generally ann does a very good job of keeping the Amiga debate alive.
However when I post an answer/comment to a long ongoing thread on another public mailing list (the AmigaOne list) I do object to that being copied out of context. It is far more relevant to point people to the thread itself so that an least those that are interested get the opportunity to see my (and everybody else's) comments in the context of the original thread.
I put the stuff about crossposting etc in in the hope that readers would recognise the irrelevance of cross posting out of context. But nevertheless it was up here as soon as it had been posted to the A1 list. You can see the result here (flames) and on the A1 list (understood in context).
FWIW my comment was defending Joanna's right to ask awkward questions on the A1 list, including why we are not openly publishing everything which goes on on the A1G3 list.
Alan
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 33 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 25-Jul-2002 06:53 GMT
"Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount
rather than their ability to contribute to the developer
process."
Hmm, I'd imagine many of the board purchasers were motivated by the
possibility to run and develop for OS4, which probably explains their
lack of "contribution". At least, I didn't notice anything that said
only Linux developers should apply. I might be mistaken, though..
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 34 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 06:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Daniel Allsopp):
First Amiga developers, then Amiga users and finally Linux users. Where's the contradiction?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 35 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Jarmo Laakkonen on 25-Jul-2002 08:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
>We're talking about Soldier of Fortune, SiN and Worms: Armageddon, all of which Hyperion >officially announced for release in 1999 or 2000, as well as Majesty which was supposed to >have been released eighteen months ago.
Well, SIN is ready and waiting for fast enough hardware to run it on. Also, I think Soldier of
fortune would be too slow on current hardware and probably needs virtual memory..
Worms is on hold until OS4 is ready. Can't comment on Majesty.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 36 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Shadowfox on 25-Jul-2002 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
I can only assume from your comment you did not order a dev board and do not have access to the mailing list. If you did, my apologies to my assumption (and this board is certainly not the place to air out a grievance!). However, if you did not, don't speak for me and assume that everyone is angry about his/her purchase being late. People are certainly anxious and eager, but I for one am patient and progress is being made. Development is never cut and dried so precisely that the unexpected does not occur. At no time have I felt that Alan has mis-represented his position on the boards. The time frame has certainly been extended, but this is not due to some perverse malicious activity on Eyetech's part to mislead or abuse our good faith. It's unfortunate but not malignant.
-Jack
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 37 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Muffin on 25-Jul-2002 10:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
"01-August-1999:
Hyperion acquires license to port Team 17's cult-game "Worms: Armageddon" to the Amiga."
"11-June-2000:
Hyperion signs Soldier of Fortune for Amiga and Mac."
"04-March-2000:
Hyperion signs "SiN" from Activision for Amiga and Linux. Extensive info on SiN can be found here."
this is what it says on their site...and i think anybody can under stand why not all of thees games has been releaset yet...and it't NOT because they are lazy :)
come to think of it is there ANY Game company that release games at schedule?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 38 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 25-Jul-2002 10:27 GMT
What's everyone up in arms about? I don't see a Pegasos system on sale anywhere either so what's the problem? And don't start with the vaporware bullshit either because it works both ways.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 39 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Jul-2002 10:42 GMT
> However the Softex open firmware we had originally shipped with the dev
> boards (incidently as seen on the Pegasos video) has several shortcomings
> (although this has been used to boot the 5 linux distributions and the OS4
> kernel)
So everything works with the old firmware, both Linux and OS4. Hand in hand! The way everybody wants it!
> and we are currently developing/extending the alternative PPCBoot open
> firmware for use on the production AmigaOne boards. This will allow us to
> build in Amiga- specific boot etc options, a well as a more comprehensive
> multi-boot environment.
What "Amiga specific boot options" could there possibly be, that can't be achieved the normal way in the 21:st century, that is through a disc based bootloader? Enhancing a BIOS is one thing (corrections/optimizations), but why bother to put things that should be disc based into ROM? Everything that is disc based is easy for the user to change/update according to his/her needs. By refusing that option to the user you make the hardware crippled! As little as possible should be in ROM, just what's absolutely necessary to start up the hardware. Then the power of decisions should be turned over to the users wants and needs.
> This revision to the boot ROM is being undertaken by Hyperion as part of the
> work necessary for booting OS4 on the A1.
I can't imagine that there would have to be ANY NECESSARY WORK to make OS4 boot on the A1. Heck, even the old 'Amiga Classic' OS boots nicely without a physical amiga specific ROM. The only thing you need is a standard BIOS and a harddrive. If OS4 *STILL* uses the old kickstart ROM's (for some reason) - no problemo! Just put the old ROM imagefiles in the boot process. All work on "developing/extending" (hehe, ahem) the boot ROM is unnecessary, and the purpose of still doing so can only be to purpously cripple the hardware/os and tieing the os to one specific hardware solution.
This is a severe limitation to OS4/A1. Limitations are NEVER good. Not for anyone!
> Finally several people have asked us why we are not delivering the A1 board
> to Linux users in advance of the release of OS4. Well there are two main
> reasons:
> 1 - This is a product we are producing for the Amiga market and IMO it is
> proper that the Amiga community get their hands on it first.
Oh, how touching! You are a commercial hardware company that REFUSES to sell your product to customers willing to pay for it. There is nothing Amiga specific about the A1 (at least not until you cripple it with your "extensions") and there is no logical reasons whatsoever to refuse possible sales in the wait for OS4. By doing so you:
1 - Misses a lot of possible sales. You are acting on a tiny, low volume, market where every single sale counts. There are people out there that are willing to buy your product, but instead of being glad over the demand and the possibility to make some money, you say "No, sorry, this is a product for the AMIGA market. You can't buy it before we have crippled it some more". You mention that the coupon circus from Amiga Inc secures the future of the A1, but what can secure the future more than *ACTUAL SALES*?
2 - Keep the costs on a high level. Volume and costs goes hand in hand. By refusing sales you are also refusing higher volume on your product which will make it more expensive than necessary for *EVERYONE*. That in turn may very well push away some potential buyers (which means even lower volume) and put the whole "Amiga Comeback" in danger.
> 2 - I still cannot see why there would be a significant market for Linux on
> the A1 given that the main focus of Linux is the x86 platform, which -
> because of sheer sales volumes - will always be an order of magnitude cheaper
> than a ppc-based product.
Well, there IS a market for PPC Linux. Why are YOU supporting PPC when x86 is so much cheaper? The same reasons goes for some (but far from all, of course) Linux users. Or perhaps the whole Amiga migration to PPC is a mistake? Perhaps the Amiga migration should have been towards x86 instead, since it is cheaper and still more powerful? Or what do you mean?
Finally, have a look at http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos/
You will see that the amount of signatures to that petition is almost as high as the coupon sales. What does that say to you?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 40 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 10:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Muffin):
Worms was announced for delivery by the end of 1999
SiN was announced for delivery in Q2 2000
Alien Nations was announced for delivery in Q3 2000
Soldier of Fortune was announced for delivery in Q4 2000
It doesn't matter whether *I* think those are realistic delivery times (I don't) the truth is that Hyperion, ie Ben Hermans made promises they knew they couldn't keep. They've done it again with OS4 and you should beware of any promises that have no identifiable substance from these companies (AInc, Hyperion, Eyetech)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 41 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Jul-2002 11:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (cOrpse):
> The amigaOne *hardware* certainly looks finished,
Yes it does, doesn't it?
> and the *amiga OS* firmware can only be produced when the Os 4 project is at
> that stage
What Amiga OS Firmware? There is absolutely *no need* for an Amiga OS Firmware whatsoever! But they are making one anyway!
> but you have to consider the way in which amiga Os currently boots itself
> from harddrive ... The point is it *doesn't*
Of course it does! You cant just turn on the computer and start using it. You could on the C64, but you have never been able to do that on the Amiga.
> AmigaOs is there when you turn the machine on from *rom* and then loads
> extension type software from the harddrive. Therefor a true port of the
> amigaOS source is going to need somewhere in the hardware to spring from or
> a bios that will pull it from the harddrive much like the IA64 platform.
Remember that the old Amiga architecture is from a time when there hardly were no hard drives at all, and certainly not for the Amiga. Everything was floppy based. The original Amiga (the Amiga 1000) did not have kickstart ROM's, you had to use a floppy to load it. That was 'extra job', and therefore they started to use a kickstart ROM instead. The ROM contains *PARTS* of the OS (not the whole OS as we recognizes it). The exec was kickstarted along with some processes for hardware testing, and a process that waited to be able to load the rest of the OS. Basicly, the kickstart did much the same job as todays BIOS'es, and besides that it contained some parts of the OS, not because it was necessary to have it that way, but because it was convenient in a floppy-only envireonment. To have some parts of the OS preloaded in the memory reduced the use of the slow floppy and reduced the amount of disc swaps. But that was then, and this is now.
There is nothing that says that there HAS to be that way. Not today. You know, ROM's are quite a bit slower than todays RAM memories. Perhaps you remember that there were tools that copied the ROM into fast RAM in order to speed things up? Perhaps you have used a "soft-kick" (or what they were called, I cant remember) to boot a newer ROM image in order to use a later version of the OS without the expensive process of changing ROM's? It's quite possible allright!
Only the most important things should be in ROM. Everything that is needed to set up the hardware. But then the power should be turned over to the user and his/her choices.
Pegasos has an optional Disc-On-Chip of 32 megabytes. That could be a way if you want to make a setup without discs. That solution is very nice and exciting... as an *OPTION*! You should not *TIE UP* the users with ROM's and no choices.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 42 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 25-Jul-2002 11:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Samface):
> Who claimed the AmigaOne was going to be POP/CHRP in the first place? Noone.
Well, it IS! There is nothing Amiga specific about it. Oh, well, except for that cripled thing. Madness!
> The fact that the AmigaOne design is based on a POP design is just because it
> happened to be the most cost effective and practical solution at the time,
> not because they intended the AmigaOne or AmigaOS4 to be a POP platform.
The Amiga One is a POP platform. But a cripled one!
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 43 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 11:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
When did Hyperion give any release dates for AmigaOS4? AFAIK, they've always said; "when it's ready".
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 44 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Jul-2002 11:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Samface):
In November:
"initial version in Feburary".
In Feburary:
"developer version in March"
Since April:
"when it's done"
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 45 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (takemehomegrandma):
Sure, noone says it has to be that way. However, if Amiga Inc., Hyperion and Eyetech agrees that this is for the best, I believe them. You can speculate about it all you want, they are still the only ones with the appropriate knowledge and authority to make this kind of judgement, not you.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 46 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 11:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (takemehomegrandma):
The MAI Teron CX is POP, sure. But then, from http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/faq.php:
[Quote]
Is the AmigaOneG3-SE the same as the MAI Teron Cx? No. During the period leading up to the OS4 development agreement being signed we evaluated the Articia S northbridge chip for possible use in a redesigned AmigaOne. We concluded that it was the most cost-effective chip for the design and proceeded to draw up some new specifications for an uprated, more cost-effectively engineered AmigaOne, the AmigaOneG3-SE. Clearly using the Articia S instead of Escena's custom northbridge design meant that both the schematic design and the PCB layout would be entirely new. MAI logic are a chipset manufacturer, not a PPC motherboard manufacturer, but they had commissioned a low volume, high cost evaluation board, the Teron Cx, to help sell their chipsets. The Teron Cx was never designed to, or intended to, go into volume production. We therefore asked them if they could recommend a design company who was familiar with using the Articia S in PPC motherboard design. They recommended the same (Far Eastern) company that designed their Teron Cx evaluation board.
The new Eyetech AmigaOne design obviously shares a lot of commonality with the Teron Cx board, but more than a cursory glance at the specifications (ATA speed, integrated ethernet, custom firmware, number of active PCI/AGP slots etc) - and the price - of both boards should be enough to convince most people that they really are different designs.
However if you remain unconvinced you are of course perfectly welcome to purchase the Teron Cx evaluation board. It costs $3900, misses many features of the AmigaOneG3-SE, and won't run OS4.
[End of Quote]
In other words; the AmigaOne is *not* the same as the Teron CX and therefore you cannot make the assumption that it also is POP.
Hint: "Based on" is not the same as "equals".
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 47 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (David Scheibler):
From Hyperion or are you quoting Amiga Inc.?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 48 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 11:56 GMT
Oh yeah, I guess it's quite likely that regular ANN readers don't know where to find out more about the Embedded PowerPC Linux Boot Project (PPCBoot for short) so here is a URL:
http://ppcboot.sourceforge.net/
Those in the "campaign for open systems" or whatever they're calling themselves should see this as a victory. PPCBoot is GPL'd and Hyperion / Eyetech will have to provide access to the firmware source code along with A1 boards. If anything strange has to be done to boot OS4 (which I doubt) it will all be revealed in the PPCBoot source code.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 49 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 25-Jul-2002 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
You wrote "GPL" and "Hyperion" in the same posting -> you're doomed ;o)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 50 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 12:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Samface):
Quote from Hyperion PR
"the original February release-date might slip somewhat"
Quote directly from the Friedens
"A realistic date is somewhere in march/april for end users"
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