| [News] Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 04-Aug-2002 20:43 GMT by Frodon | 185 comments
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The full announcement is available in the Read More.
Just a clarification to avoid misinterpretations:
For 1000 Euros you get a complete system, not only the motherboard (So you get: Motherboard + CPU + Memory + Harddrive + CD-Rom drive + Graphic Card + Tower + PSU)
Announcing BETATESTER and Team Betatester!
The time has come for Thendic-France/bplan to start selling machines. We are not going to call it the Pegasos for now. We are going to call the pre-release version of the Pegasos with the pre-release version of MorphOS for PPC: BETATESTER. MorphOS may not be ready for regular computer users, but it is ready for developers. This coming weekend we will begin to sell the machines directly from Thendic-France. We will sell all 15 machines we take with us for the SLACH PARTY CONTEST in Bordeaux to people that agree to join «Team Betatester». We can take as many orders as there is interest. We have decided to do this because in two weeks we will begin to receive delivery of the first *1000* lot of BETATESTER mainboards. These will be completely configured and ready to sell to developers who join Team Betatester by Thendic-France. (Note: any mainboards not sold as BETATESTERS will be sold with firmware only to our Linux distributors).
You can purchase a BETATESTER for 1000 Euros (tax not included).
Team Betatester will be composed of people who do/agree to do the following:
1. Purchase a BETATESTER for 1000 Euros (tax not included)
2. Sign an NDA
3. Sign an Agreement not to sell the machine (we will purchase back all machines that need to be sold for any reason).
4. Provide a minimum of two bug reports per week (including negative reports) until the conclusion of the BETATESTER program (approximately 12 weeks).
5. Agree to test applications as required/time permits
6. Test new peripheral devices including the Thendic Smart Card Reader (for secure FTP access, online payment and loyalty programs), the DataPlay disc drive and the ComCam and associated viewing software.
Team Betatester members may also agree/become eligible to port applications to MorphOS for hire by Thendic-France/bplan.
In exchange, Team Betatester members will receive:
1. A MorphOS for PPC v.90 T-shirt
2. A free copy of the commercial release of MorphOS for PPC v1.0 when it is ready.
3. A discount on the Betatester G4 upgrade
4. Access to the Betatester FTP for updates, fixes, test applications and application releases.
and of course a BETATESTER with a TWO-YEAR WARRANTY for Hardware!
The SLACH PARTY CONTEST 15 BETATESTERS will be available for the contest from 12:00 Friday to 18:00 Saturday. As the Slach Party, the contest will be monitored and open during the entire 36 hours non-stop. Individuals/contestants may enter multiple times, but priority will be given to first time participants, second time participants, third time, etc. in that order. We will have a sign up sheet by hour for each of the 36-hour blocks. If a block of time is unassigned others may then fill-in/wait-list as machines become available.
The Contest is basically being held to:
1. Announce the beginning of Team Betatester
2. Develop a logo for the BETATESTER and Team Betatester.
3. Promote the SALES of the BETATESTER
The objective of the contest is to create the best «BETATESTER» logo using Candy Factory Pro on a BETATESTER (that is a pre-release Pegasos) in a one hour period. All submitted logos must include the word Betatester
The Judges for the Contest will be:
• Raquel Velasco
• Gerald Carda
• Rakesh Raghoebardayal
• Mike Bourgeoisat
• Johan Ronnblom
All the logos will be presented to the Judges Saturday evening at 1800. The First Prize award a BETATESTER -- will be presented the same night at 2000. All participants will be required to agree to our contest rules to be eligible. The rules are:
1. No outside data will be allowed to be loaded on the machine.
2. The time limit will be one hour.
3. Only the Candy Factory Pro can be used to create the logo.
4. All logos become the property of Thendic-France/bplan and can be used on our websites.
5. Contestants may enter more than once but never at the expense of another who has not had an opportunity.
All rules will be followed and anyone not doing so will be immediately eliminated at our discretion from the competition.
Another Contest -- we will also begin a contest where people can submit names for the eclipsis, the handheld version of the Pegasos (see "eclipsis" at www.thendic-france.com. If you submit a name you are eligible to purchase a MorphOS T-Shirt at a very reasonable price :)
and a bit more information!
Over the next couple/few months there are a series of shows that have been planned. Here is a list of what is planned today:
• 7-8 September, A-Expo in Tain l\'Hermitage (France)
• 14 September, BETATESTER I in Frankfurt
• 21-22 September, Pianeta 2002 in Empoli (Florence, Italy)
• 21-22 September, AmiGBG and GGS-Data Show (Gothenburg, Sweden)
During October, we will also set-up BETATESTER conferences in London and Moscow. Unlike the other events, the BETATESTER conferences will be our events. In all cases, we will divide up our team as required to support the events. All of us will go to the A-Expo. At the A-Expo we will also sell BETATESTERS to all that agree to the Team Betatester requirements.
When someone else hosts the show we will organize ourselves, as we will this weekend for the Slach Party. We will demonstrate BETATESTERS and hold a contest.
For the developer conferences we host, they will be one-day affairs and include a dinner we will hold that evening.
Admission to the full day program will be based on a pre-order/payment for a BETATESTER. Purchasers may pay at the door, but must agree to the Team Betatester requirements. No one who has not purchased a machine will be admitted.
A different MorphOS T-Shirt will be released at each event: v.90 Bordeaux, v.91 Tain l\'Hermitage, v.92 Frankfurt, v.93 Gothenburg/Empoli, etc. When the Pegasos is ready for commercial release we will have v1.0 (and we will offer for sale the entire collection).
If you have any questions you can email us at bbrv@thendic-france.com.
Best regards,
Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 101 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ryu on 05-Aug-2002 14:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 57 (cheesegrate):
"Well maybe if people like you stopped flaming on a thread"
oh that is rich coming from you. You flame as much as he does. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 102 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 05-Aug-2002 14:18 GMT | Why doesn't everybody (including me) SHUT UP and WAIT for PRODUCTS to be
RELEASED!? Why the HELL are we arguing here?
PS: Bill, Ben etc., please stop acting like kids in public. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 103 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 05-Aug-2002 15:08 GMT | In reply to Comment 39 (cheesegrate):
>Fact is mos is far ahead of aos4 in development for the ppc platform
>Face it..
How can you say something like that without having ever seen AmigaOS4? At least I have an updated list of features and I don't think OS4 has any reason to be ashamed next to another OS. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 104 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 05-Aug-2002 15:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 77 (DaveW):
>But, my views have changed from a month ago ( which were along the lines of
>just get the products out and stop the FUDding ). My view is now that the
>Amiga scene is dead. MorphOS and AOS4 are beyond hope and AROS will never make
>it to the mainstream as a viable alternative despite how much goodwill I feel
>towards that project.
So what are you still doing here, if you've left the platform? Just to flame others? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 105 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 05-Aug-2002 15:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 87 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"Well, I wouldn't say that OS 4 is beyond hope or we wouldn't have taken on the task.
It certainly is clear that it will be an uphill struggle but the response from the community has been good and
we have even had some interest from non-Amiga developers interested in a new market.
The Amiga brand is still strong and strikes a cord with many
developers out there."
It's definitely not beyond hope. If the Hyperion team do a good job,
and it looks as though they will, a new AmigaOS will be quite
attractive to many buyers. It is suggested that printing will be
tackled for 4.1, and IMO this is what will make the difference.
The big strength of AmigaOS is its back catalog of software, not
comparable to Mac or Windows but certainly competitive with Linux or
BeOS.
The strongest reason _not_ to buy will be the 600MHz CPU, which is
very slow by 2002 standards. Even if the OS is more efficient, the
ordinary purchase seeing a 600MHz Amiga and a 2200MHz XP machine
side by side in a shop in 2003 will go for the bigger number. That of
course equally affects the BPlan product. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 106 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 05-Aug-2002 15:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 88 (DaveW):
>So... if I can appeal to 33% of the userbase whats that going to be? 300?
Well, definitely not 300. 1031 people have already showed they want AmigaOne/OS4 and there are many more who will get it when it is out. I let you do the math.
>How many of those are going to pirate what I do?
Those who pirate Amiga products in such a endangered market should be hang by their bolas. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 107 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 05-Aug-2002 15:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 92 (DaveW):
>Im not in because Im yet to be convinced that there are 2000 users
>let alone 10,000.
C'mon, seriously, you're telling me that *ALL* the users bought a membership to the club? I'm more inclined to think that only one out of 10 got it. I'm certain most people are on a wait and see basis. On the other hand, once the new system is out the market cannot shrink anymore. When everyone has a new system the market can only grow because people don't go spending $1000 or more and the close their investment in the closet. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 108 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 05-Aug-2002 16:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 87 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"Obviously this will initially take the form of licensing with the actual porting carried out by Amiga developers themselves."
How much money did Hyperion's Amiga porting business lose in FY 2001?
How many copies of OS 4.0 will you have to sell to break even ? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 109 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by MIKE on 05-Aug-2002 16:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 103 (amigammc):
Well because we have seen MorphOS, it's project was started much earlier, it's being developed by people who have actually done this stuff before, even Hyperion admits, MorphOS is ahead of their effort of course (Morphos 2 years in dev. Hyperion's AmigaOS 6 months). Even you should be able to figure this out Luca. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 110 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by z5 on 05-Aug-2002 17:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 109 (MIKE):
@Mike:
mike, you have to be realistic about this. As i understand it, Morphos is a whole new OS build from scratch. OS4 is a port to PPC from an OS that exists (allready 17 years). So i think there is a little difference there and the dev. time can not be compared. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 111 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by flOnk on 05-Aug-2002 17:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 110 (z5):
@z5
> As i understand it, Morphos is a whole new OS build from scratch.
You wish. They're currently rewriting whole chunks of it to remove any trace of original AmigaOS code.
> OS4 is a port to PPC from an OS that exists (allready 17 years).
The Hardware Abstraction Layer is brand new. Anyways its not a simple port, since they're adding in functions which weren't even supposed to be available before 4.2 |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 112 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 05-Aug-2002 18:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 111 (flOnk):
> You wish. They're currently rewriting whole chunks of it to remove any trace > of original AmigaOS code.
You wish. They originally planned to emulate MANY libraries. What they do now
is to rewrite the WHOLE OS so that it needs not a SINGLE AmigaOS library. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 113 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 05-Aug-2002 18:49 GMT | I completely support cheesegrate's posts and opinions. I think he's being very un-biased. For intelligent people, it's hard to answer seriously to people that are not.
$50 coupons can NOT be compared to a NORMAL BETA-TESTING PROCEDURE. I think the $50 coupons were an unfair approach against the amiga community. I think it was a big lie.
- What will the money be used for?
- Why don't they freeze the money until the buyers have got AmigaOne/Os4 ?
- How much of this money goes to Eyetech and Hyperion ?
You see, if they were telling the truth about the coupons they wouldn't touch the money until the users had got the goods. Personally I think it's a shame to see the Amiga name in their hands. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 114 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 05-Aug-2002 18:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 103 (amigammc):
amigammc...
Give me a break.. It's common sense for anyone with a little knowledge about development. Morphos is a pure(95%+ I guess) PPC OS when it's being released (You can choose not to believe that, but you're not that stupid - I know) while AmigaOS4 recently showed some debug-output in text-mode, I heard. Ok, I believe that they're a "little bit" further than that, but still.. give me a break!
It's not about if one should be ashamed of AmigaOS4 or not. I'm sure it will be satisfactory. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 115 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Lando / Trinity on 05-Aug-2002 20:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 107 (amigammc):
>>Im not in because Im yet to be convinced that there are 2000 users
>>let alone 10,000.
>
>C'mon, seriously, you're telling me that *ALL* the users bought a membership >to the club? I'm more inclined to think that only one out of 10 got it. I'm >certain most people are on a wait and see basis. On the other hand, once the >new system is out the market cannot shrink anymore. When everyone has a new >system the market can only grow because people don't go spending $1000 or >more and the close their investment in the closet.
Ok... lets see... Elbox have sold over 5000 Mediators. I'd say that most of these people are still actively using their machines (or have sold their machines to other people who are3 actively using them).
Let's say that one in 4 "active" Amiga users have a mediator - that would put the figure at around 20,000. Personally I'd think that its more like 1 in 10 "active" amiga users owning a mediator (the rest having bvisions/cvisions/other graphics card or another PCI solution or even stuck on AGA). That would make around 50,000 "active" users.
I'd put the real figure at around 30-40,000. Probably more, but definitely not less. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 116 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 05-Aug-2002 21:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 105 (Don Cox):
>The big strength of AmigaOS is its back catalog of software, not
>comparable to Mac or Windows but certainly competitive with Linux or
>BeOS.
But most of the software you can't even buy anymore. Maybe it would be a good idea to set up a group that contacts owners of these 'abandonware' applications and make them available to the public once again, for free - similar to what Back to the Roots does for old Amiga Games? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 117 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 05-Aug-2002 21:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 106 (amigammc):
>>How many of those are going to pirate what I do?
>
>Those who pirate Amiga products in such a endangered market should be hang by
>their bolas.
I agree. But you didn't answer his question. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 118 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 05-Aug-2002 21:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 107 (amigammc):
>C'mon, seriously, you're telling me that *ALL* the users bought a membership
>to the club? I'm more inclined to think that only one out of 10 got it. I'm
>certain most people are on a wait and see basis.
What was the whole point of the coupon scheme then? Wasn't it a tool for Eyetech to see how much board they would have to produce, in order to cut down the cost of invividual boards?
You could be right though, as I can believe many people didn't want to risk losing $50 in case the AmigaOne would be cancelled.
Maybe someone can organise a 'petition', collecting names and email adresses of those who are sure they will buy an AmigaOne, *provided it's released before a set date*, and send that list to Eyetech?
>On the other hand, once the
>new system is out the market cannot shrink anymore. When everyone has a new
>system the market can only grow because people don't go spending $1000 or more
>and the close their investment in the closet.
People spent lots of money on PPC accelerators too in the past, how many of them haven't left?
If there won't be alot of apps released for OS4, people might just switch over to linux permanently. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 119 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 06-Aug-2002 00:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 113 (Anders Kjeldsen):
Are you good in math? Try this:
1031 coupons * $5051550
from $51550 subtract:
- tax
- fees for credit card users (2% to 5% depending on the credit card used)
- cost of t-shirts
- refund the $50 at purchase of product
I'm sure there's more I forgot
as you can see this is a loss for Amiga, the real reason has already been discussed (I mentioned it several times) and I won't go back there. Who doesn't want to believe it is free, but please stop spreading FUD if you don't have evidence of what you're saying |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 120 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 06-Aug-2002 00:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 117 (darklite):
>I agree. But you didn't answer his question.
That's stupid, how can I answer a question to which nobody knows the answer?
Probably none, seen that the AmigaOne has hardware protection against piracy of OS4 |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 121 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 06-Aug-2002 00:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 118 (darklite):
>What was the whole point of the coupon scheme then? Wasn't it a tool for
>Eyetech to see how much board they would have to produce, in order to cut
>down the cost of invividual boards?
No, only in a second moment
>If there won't be alot of apps released for OS4, people might just switch
>over to linux permanently.
I think more people would switch to Windows than Linux |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 122 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by cheesegrate on 06-Aug-2002 01:41 GMT | amazing how this thread has been hijacked into an os4 thread
I will remember to do the same for mos on the next aos/a1 thread.
Besides that. The beta release of mos for ppc is a milestone for the amiga community..
yay! |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 123 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 06-Aug-2002 02:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 119 (amigammc):
It's only a loss for AInc when they pay it back. I said the same thing last year, and I got jeers "What are you fool? Don't you read? The AmigaOne will be here in October, people are already testing the new AmigaOS. It's only a few months away"
So far AInc has over $100 000 of postponed debts in the form of coupons / vouchers etc. promised but never issued. It also owes over 500 people software updates equivalent to a new SDK, and 1000 people are owed T-shirts, which AInc haven't even designed yet. As unsecured creditors, you have only Bill's word that AInc are good for the money, and IMHO that means you are very unlikely to get it back. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 124 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 06-Aug-2002 04:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 104 (darklite):
LOL! Certainly seemed to have got you all riled up eh?
You can hardly talk, you are Mr x86 bigot and yet given the platform is NOT
x86 and you do not think PPC is viable what are YOU still doing around? Just to
flame others?
Where did that get us? Nowhere.
Quite funny when you post what people dont really want to hear what the outcome is. The rednecks
come out to gawp:
"Oh sh!t cleetus that there DaveW hays jawst left the playteform he now aint allowed to spayk (hic)
lets shoot him with this ere twelve-bore"
When Im polite and structured I get abuse from those that dont like to hear calm
reasoning on the other side of what they believe. When I lower my tone to theirs I
get labelled a flamer. This is too funny!
At least Im not from the "its the computer on my desk therefore thats the architecture
that the Amiga should use so I dont have to pay any more money" camp. ;-) |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 125 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 06-Aug-2002 04:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 114 (Anders Kjeldsen):
You should get a career in marketing. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 126 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ketzer on 06-Aug-2002 05:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 109 (MIKE):
MorphOS starting from scratch, AmigaOS starting from 3.9. Do your math again. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 127 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 06-Aug-2002 05:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 119 (amigammc):
Amigammc..
tax: You mean VAT? I'm not sure if it exists in the US, but I don't think it will affect people from outside of the US.
fees for credit card users: This affects the one who pays.
cost of t-shirts: 1$ each? what?
refund the $50 at purchase of product: Yes, IF.
It's not a loss for Amiga Inc until they release their products. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 128 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ketzer on 06-Aug-2002 05:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 122 (cheesegrate):
I got the impression you that always anyway. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 129 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 06-Aug-2002 09:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 126 (Ketzer):
>AmigaOS starting from 3.9.
Really? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 130 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Marktime on 06-Aug-2002 11:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 45 (DaveW):
1500 active amiga users is clearly too low.
The I am amiga club has over 1000 members, and that is just people willing to pay for that club. I think amiga.org has something like 3000 members, and that is amigan's willing to register, and english speakers with internet access who like that site, one of many.
the number has got to be a bit over 10,000. Anyway, the number has to grow, thats clear, but always companies have to grow, thats part of life. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 131 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 06-Aug-2002 11:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 130 (Marktime):
Might be interesting to see the actual sales figures for items like the Mediator, Payback,
Art Effect.
10,000 sounded optimistic to me a couple of years back.
We will see. Don't get me wrong I HOPE there are 10,000 enthusiastic potential
advocates for the platform out there willing to part with cash. That would be great.
But I think I am right on the attrition rate ( 25 perc. leave every 6 months ) if not the starting figure. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 132 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 06-Aug-2002 11:28 GMT | In reply to Comment 124 (DaveW):
>LOL! Certainly seemed to have got you all riled up eh?
No. You say you're no longer interested in AmigaOS, MorphOS or AROS. So what's keeping you here?
>You can hardly talk, you are Mr x86 bigot and yet given the platform is NOT
>x86 and you do not think PPC is viable what are YOU still doing around? Just
>to flame others?
Indeed, I do think x86 is the way to go. While I'm not interested in OS4 or MorphOS, I'm not saying they should be dropped. I advocate an official x86 solution *in addition to* OS4. With Ben Hermans steering things, that isn't going to happen unfortunately.
I am however interested in AROS and Amithlon (though my interest in that is fading fast because of all the legal crap surrounding it), that's the only reason I still read ANN and MooBunny.
>Where did that get us? Nowhere.
>
>Quite funny when you post what people dont really want to hear what the
>outcome is. The rednecks come out to gawp:
>
>"Oh sh!t cleetus that there DaveW hays jawst left the playteform he now aint
>allowed to spayk (hic) lets shoot him with this ere twelve-bore"
>
>When Im polite and structured I get abuse from those that dont like to hear
>calm reasoning on the other side of what they believe. When I lower my tone to
>theirs I get labelled a flamer. This is too funny!
It might have been "calm reasoning", but you were almost always patronizing whoever you were trying to 'teach' that you're always right.
I think you're just frustrated because you set your hopes on OS4 and now you finally realise it has no future.
>At least Im not from the "its the computer on my desk therefore thats the
>architecture that the Amiga should use so I dont have to pay any more money"
>camp. ;-)
You know better than that. I think AmigaOS only has a future on x86 hardware, because x86 is *mainstream*, you can't beat it's price-performance ratio plus 99% of the userbase we're targetting already has an x86 system.
I have an x86 computer on this desk because it's the mainstream hardware, and not the other way around. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 133 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ketzer on 06-Aug-2002 11:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 132 (darklite):
The only difference between an x86 box and a ppc box is the mainboard + proc, everything else is just a matter of drivers. Also the mainboard is just as expensive or cheap as a standard pc motherboard, leaving the ppc which has a higher price due to lower volume. So? Not everone needs the cheapest things, some are happily ready to spend ~300$ more to get what they want and not what everyone else uses.
Btw, why do you want Amithlon anyway? Windows is *mainstream*, isnt it? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 134 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 06-Aug-2002 11:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 133 (Ketzer):
>The only difference between an x86 box and a ppc box is the mainboard + proc,
>everything else is just a matter of drivers. Also the mainboard is just as
>expensive or cheap as a standard pc motherboard, leaving the ppc which has a
>higher price due to lower volume. So? Not everone needs the cheapest things,
>some are happily ready to spend ~300$ more to get what they want and not what
>everyone else uses.
You completely missed the point. How many PC users do you think are willing to invest in a PPC motherboard + CPU which is slower than their current x86 to try out an alternative for which no new software is available?
Now compare that to just the price of an AmigaOS which runs on their current hardware. The plan is to *expand* the userbase.
>Btw, why do you want Amithlon anyway? Windows is *mainstream*, isnt it?
Yes, and it's far less of a joy to use than AmigaOS, whereas x86 is mainstream and faster than anything else at the same price. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 135 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 06-Aug-2002 12:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 126 (Ketzer):
It's not just about doing the math, that's the easy part. The real job is getting the real numbers for the equation. AmigaOS4 runs a brand new, completely rewritten from scratch kernel, just like MorphOS. The rest of AmigaOS4 is based on AmigaOS3.1, just like MorphOS. AmigaOS3.1 will gradually be replaced, library by library, by native PPC binaries, just like MorphOS. The only difference is that Hyperion doesn't have to reverse engineer and that they're about to accomplish all this in so much less time. Hyperion was assigned this task at the end of last year while the MorphOS team has been working on it for, how many years was it? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 136 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by MonkeyOS on 06-Aug-2002 12:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 135 (Samface):
> how many years was it?
Since 1995 IIRC. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 137 of 185 | ANN.lu |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 138 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 06-Aug-2002 12:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 135 (Samface):
The problem is that until recently the MorphOS team was very small.
Laire, Emm, cyfm, bigfoot and some other guys. Nowadays the team has grown quite big. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 139 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 06-Aug-2002 12:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 134 (darklite):
>>Btw, why do you want Amithlon anyway? Windows is *mainstream*, isnt it?
>Yes, and it's far less of a joy to use than AmigaOS, whereas x86 is mainstream
>and faster than anything else at the same price.
The question wasn't about hardware, it was about the software. You say x86 is great because it's mainstream, then why don't you like Windows better than AmigaOS too? I mean, I can understand the price and performance issues but when it comes to availability (mainstream) you contradict yourself, why? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 140 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 06-Aug-2002 12:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 135 (Samface):
>AmigaOS4 runs a brand new, completely rewritten from scratch kernel, just like
>MorphOS.
"runs". You're talking about the future, right? When it's released? I can hardly imagine that this kernel would be anywhere near ready by now.
>The only difference is that Hyperion doesn't have to reverse engineer and that
>they're about to accomplish all this in so much less time. Hyperion was
>assigned this task at the end of last year while the MorphOS team has been
>working on it for, how many years was it?
We'll see about that. Don't you think that if they had ANYTHING that could remind one of a desktop, running below this kernel, that they would demonstrate it soon? Where are the In-Action screenshots ? I'm very excited.. I mean EXCITED :p about the battle at A-Expo between Pegasos and AmigaOne. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 141 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 06-Aug-2002 12:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 137 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
From http://www.morphos.de/files/pressancdec2399.txt:
"Research for this project started in early 1998, while at the end of 1998
an early implementation was ready. In 1999, we started on the virtual
amiga emulation to make the current AmigaOS available without requiring 68K
hardware."
So, close Alkis, but not correct. 1998 is the correct answer. That's three more years than Hyperion who hasn't even completed their first year yet. Therefore, anyone saying that MorphOS will be completed faster than AmigaOS4 is per definition full of it. Perhaps it'll be completed before, but not faster. Two entirely different things which needs to be pointed out everytime someone complains at Hyperion for beeing slow developers. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 142 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 06-Aug-2002 12:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 139 (Samface):
>The question wasn't about hardware, it was about the software. You say x86 is
>great because it's mainstream, then why don't you like Windows better than
>AmigaOS too? I mean, I can understand the price and performance issues but
>when it comes to availability (mainstream) you contradict yourself, why?
People might prefer AmigaOS, because it's more fun to use. Most people need Windows for compatibility (work, students, ...), so if they have to choose between a custom PPC mobo and an x86 mobo, the choice is quickly made. It would cost them only about €/$ 50 to give AmigaOS a try if there was an x86 version - now they have to buy €/$ 500+ PPC motherboard.
Mr. Hermans says Windows running on the same hardware is a threat, I say it's a must:
1) the users we're targetting already have x86/Windows machines
2) people need Windows to run some key applications and *games* that are not available on Amigaos
Only once the market has been expanded we can start thinking about custom hardware.
Anyway, it's pointless discussing this, the damage has been done(IMHO ;) and we'll see what happens... |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 143 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 06-Aug-2002 12:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 140 (Anders Kjeldsen):
Eeeeh... Have you seen the feature set for AmigaOS4? Why the h*ll make screenshots that will look exactly the same as previous AmigaOS versions? They've provided screenshots of the graphical improvements made on os.amiga.com, what more do you want? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 144 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 06-Aug-2002 12:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 140 (Anders Kjeldsen):
>I can hardly imagine that this kernel would be anywhere near ready by now
Sorry to disappoint you then... |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 145 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 06-Aug-2002 12:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 143 (Samface):
>Eeeeh... Have you seen the feature set for AmigaOS4? Why the h*ll make
>screenshots that will look exactly the same as previous AmigaOS versions?
>They've provided screenshots of the graphical improvements made on
>os.amiga.com, what more do you want?
I think people just want to know what progress has been made so far. It would be interesting if Hyperion released a list of what has been done and what still has to be done, kind of like the AROS status page. Wasn't this promised BTW? |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 146 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by David Scheibler on 06-Aug-2002 12:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 141 (Samface):
"If one takes a look way back to 1993, we had discussed the principles of
MorphOS (microkernel + A-box) in theoretical terms in a private IRC channel for
Amiga developers. With people like R. Babel, Bill Coldwell, Ken Dyke, Michael
B. Smith and so on. "
(http://www.amiga-topcool.de/Neuigkeiten/interviews/ralphschmidt/ralphenglish/ralphenglish.html) |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 147 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 06-Aug-2002 12:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 135 (Samface):
It should be pointed out that OS 4.0 is being built on the foundation of OS 3.9.
With a few rare exceptions, all the functionality that was present in 3.9 will also be present in 4.0.
Other than that, I consider any comparisons with the MorphOS development cycle highly speculative at best.
It should be pointed out that some parts of OS 4 were already under heavy development or finished when OS 4 was taken up by Hyperion. This includes the TCP/IP stack, FFS2, the 68K JIT, Warp3D, the font-engine, the new shell, the salvage en recovery tools, P96 etc. etc.
It should also be pointed out that Hyperion has a few full-timers working on OS 4 (basically the kernel) and the AmigaOne Bios who are not students or people working in their spare time.
Finally, it should be pointed out that the OS 4 development team is now well over 30 people strong and that obviously you can accomplish quite a lot in 10 months with this number of people provided everybody sticks to their respective field of expertise as is the case. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 148 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 06-Aug-2002 12:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 142 (darklite):
Well, I think there is a lot more AmigaOS interested people on the alternative hardware markets than on the mainstream markets. Those that already have x86 machines obviously *needs* Windows in one way or another and will not replace it with AmigaOS. Therefore AmigaOS wouldn't stand a chance on the x86 market. On the alternative hardware market most people already are interested in alternative OS's and that's why it makes sense to build our own market and grow from there instead of trying to bash our way in on the x86 market which consists mostly of people not interested in the alternatives.
And stop whining about the prices already, rare stamps are expensive as well, live with it. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 149 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 06-Aug-2002 12:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 148 (Samface):
Like I said, let's wait and see who's right in the end. |
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| Thendic/Bplan announce the BETATESTER and Team Betatester! : Comment 150 of 185 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 06-Aug-2002 13:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 147 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Sorry Ben, I didn't intend to compare your developer cycle with the one of MorphOS. I was merely trying to point out that the basic idea to rewrite the kernel and gradually replace the classic AmigaOS components with native PPC ones are mutual between the two of you. Of course you probably differ alot when it comes to how you work and how far you've come.
Also, sorry that I claimed AmigaOS4 of beeing based upon AmigaOS3.1. I guess I've must have fallen into the rumour trap or something... :-( |
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