| [News] AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed | ANN.lu |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 1 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Johan "Graak" Forsberg on 08-Aug-2002 01:45 GMT | | I really like the OS4 logo. Too bad the AmigaOS site doesn't look too good =( |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 2 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Darrin on 08-Aug-2002 02:02 GMT | It's good to see that the equivalent of "DirectCD" is built in. The inclusion of MUI PPC should stop some of the bitching too. PDF support!!!
I hope that's the logo appearing on the T-shirts. :) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 3 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by José on 08-Aug-2002 02:06 GMT | | Ah, the advantages of being awake at 5:00am :) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 4 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 02:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 1 (Johan "Graak" Forsberg):
It's following a great AInc tradition though, it contains at least one lie.
"Sorry, this document does not validate as HTML 4.01 Transitional." |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 5 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 08-Aug-2002 03:02 GMT | Not a bad list, though makes me wonder how it took many weeks to get it on web, as this info was announced to be available 'tomorrow' (sorry, can't remember exact words) by Mr Hermans on his phone interview on AmiWast. But better late than never. Otoh during interview he also announced that Amithlon2 demo is available for DL on some (undefined) web site...
"Current work centers around Intuition and Reaction, 2D/3D drivers, A1 Bios, additional kernel functionality (virtual addressing and page-based memory handling) and the integration of the 68K emulation into the system."
No wonder they have not shown it to public.. without tested Intuition and support libraries it would not be much to look at. And that 68k-emu is going to be essential for any legacy application. (like all those not yet ported)
"Exec is the kernel of the AmigaOS and is currently written in 68K assembly."
So? Obvious to anyone with even decent amount of knowledge of Amiga internals, IMHO this is only used as an excuse for delays. I really hope they did understand from the beginning how much work it would be to mode it all to PPC-native.
"Hardware abstraction layer (HAL)
Virtual addressing (for automatic stack enlargement etc.)
Page-based memory handling (less fragmentation and more efficient)
Virtual memory "
Good, good, depends, good as long as people don't get sloppy on memory use.
"New library interface"
Without seeing it, don't know what to expect. I kinsa liked that old one too.
"Resource tracking and management
Optional memory protection"
Definitely good, and excellent.. especially for coding/testing. Memory protection is not needed if all programs are OK and behave well, but unfortunaltely there are bugs, will be bugs etc..
"Just in Time (JIT) 68K emulation
PPC native TCP/IP stack & PPP drivers
Re-implementation of the Amiga file system (FFS2) for PPC
PPC native CD Filesystem"
Would not accept anything less. Ok, perhaps CD-filesystem could be 68k emulated, but using emulated FFS of hard disks would be SO backward.
"Recovery and Salvage tools for FFS2 and SFS
PPC native CD back-up tool"
Good, nice..
"PPC native RTG system
PPC native arithmetically optimised version of layers.library
Warp3D (3D driver system)
OpenGL 1.3 support (Mesa 4.0)
PPC native RTA system based on AHI
PPC native GUI system (Intuition and Reaction)
PPC native shell"
*laugh* Someone even considered doing those on 68k-emulation? Ok, Shell could be emulated but things like Layers or Intuition are just too essential..
Mesa is a good to have, as new systems have decent CPU and support for cards more-or less up-to-date.
"PPC native datatypes"
What about Gif and Jpeg formats? are those supppoted?
New HDToolbox ("Media Toolbox")
Support for TrueType/OpenType fonts
Web-browser (Ibrowse 2.3)"
Good, realgood, I hope good enough :)
"MUI PPC (for legacy applications)"
What's used on new applications?
"Reading/printing of PDF files"
About high time.
"PPC native rewrite of DOS library"
See my comment on Intuition... Did someone actually intend to release OS4 with things like these Emulated?
"PPC native devices
Generic PPC native PCI library"
Hmm.. I hope ths makes PCI card driver making a bit easier. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 6 of 118 | ANN.lu |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 7 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 03:48 GMT | | Good logo, looks professional. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 8 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 03:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 6 (the man in the shadows):
Doh. Not that page, I was looking at the page above the one linked by the poster of this article, validate:
http://os.amiga.com/os4/ |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 9 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dakang on 08-Aug-2002 04:47 GMT | So Amiga Inc release a feature set and progress reprot and NOW IDIOTS ARE MOANING ABOUT THE PAGE NOT CONFORMING TO HTML STANDARDS!!!
JEEZEUS! FYI Frontpage Code did not (still doesn't?) conform to HTML Standards.
Why dont we concentrate on the actual announcement rather than nit picking about a relatively minor thing? |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 10 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 04:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
So what? They didn't verify *all* pages but atleast the first page (which all other pages design is based upon) validates perfectly. Seems like your pretty much looking for something to complain about instead of simply beeing glad about the news announced, I'm sorry but that's pathetic. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 11 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 05:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 10 (Samface):
What bugs me about the W3C HTML 4.01 standard is that some of the previous HTML versions tag attributes has been removed, like <TD>'s background attribute for example. I use it alot when designing websites and therefore my pages never pass the W3C HTML 4.01 validation test. That really bites as I have still yet to find some kind of a replacement functionality for this.
That's also why and don't care much for the W3C validation test. I like the standard in itself, it's just the test I don't care for. Great for debugging purposes, though. :-) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 12 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by kriz on 08-Aug-2002 05:29 GMT | | yeah! very good list, nice that Ibrowse 2.3 is gonna ship with it ... (full version ??!) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 13 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 05:29 GMT | "Exec is the kernel of the AmigaOS and is currently written in 68K assembly."
Lol! So, the most important part of AmigaOS is still in 68k asm?
Maybe there are no coders that know both 68k and ppc asm in AOS4 team? ;PP
Having fast "PPC Native" Reaction and not managing to port a simple library
is a bit weird.
I have a feeling that intuition and other OS libraries will still be emulated.
God... |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 14 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Simpleppc on 08-Aug-2002 05:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
Anonymous, you are an IDIOT.
Exec is written in 68k assembly
ExecSG is NOT ! It's in C
What was pointed out is that it was not usefull to just port it to PPC but instead create a C portable version of it,
anyone who 'thought' about that sentence for 10 secs would have realised that.
Butyou just saw a sentence YOU like to FLAME about and you did.
Between reading that sentence and posting to ann.lu there must have been 10 seconds. Not enough to think :) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 15 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by James Carroll on 08-Aug-2002 05:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
From an old status update:
http://amiga.realdreams.cz/local/21_1amigaos4.html
Exec Second Generation (Exec SG)
Exec is the kernel of the AmigaOS and is currently written in 68K assembly.
Exec is being re-written in C and new functionality will be introduced to allow the deployment of OS 4.x on any suitable PPC hardware. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 16 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 05:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
LOL! You think porting a 68k assembler OS kernel to PPC assembler is easier than porting a highlevel programmed (probably C) source code like the one of Reaction? Well, atleast we now know why you aren't part of the OS4 developer team... :-P |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 17 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by James Carroll on 08-Aug-2002 05:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 14 (Simpleppc):
My thoughts exactly..
Someone posted something similar to amiga.org and I flamed him nearly straight away, which I regret. It pisses me off that people are willing to believe the worst straight away. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 18 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 05:54 GMT | Nothing concrete. Nothing new. Ridiculous logo, not original.
When a concrete demonstration of AmigaOS4 running completely on
AmigaOne ? (you know, like MorphOS running already on Pegasos...).
(bye bye AmigaOne/AmigaOS4, welcome Pegasos/MorphOS ! :)) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 19 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 05:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
Nothing concrete about your pos, nothing new, nothing original.
Bye, bye, Anonymous! |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 20 of 118 | ANN.lu |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 21 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 08-Aug-2002 06:04 GMT | The logo is good. The list of features is good.
There is so much new code that it may take quite a long time to get
all the bugs out, but it will be worth it.
There was talk of a new set of fonts being included, but I don't see
that on the list.
One big omission is Envoy. Surely this should be brought back as part
of the OS? It was originally a Commodore product. Many people will
want to network their new and old Amigas.
IMO the whole project is much better than we could have hoped for 18
months ago. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 22 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 06:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 19 (Samface):
That's normal: nothing new concerning AmigaOS4, always nothing
concrete. That will change when there will be something concrete, but
when ?... :-)))))
The concrete and the reality are already here, their name : MorphOS on
Pegasos ! ;))
(incredible is the reaality :)) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 23 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 06:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Don Cox):
What is the difference with 18 months ago ?? there is always nothing
concrete, except lists of features on paper, new logo for patience, or
Linux screenshots,............ |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 24 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 08-Aug-2002 06:18 GMT | What's new in this feature-list? I had the impression that most of this was settled a long while ago ?
Couldn't you put a yellow sign that says "NEW" next to the new features? ;)
Btw: I'm serious. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 25 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 06:19 GMT | In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
PC's are concrete, Windows monopoly is the reality, but do I like it? No. I'm sorry but I have higher expectations than just the mere existence of it when it comes to computers. MorphOS is not an Amiga OS, Pegasos is not an Amiga computer, why would I want it anything more than a PC if I'm an Amiga user? |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 26 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 06:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 24 (Anders Kjeldsen):
It's the official announcement of what has already been stated before but not as an official announcement. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 27 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 08-Aug-2002 06:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 26 (Samface):
"It's the official announcement of what has already been stated before
but not as an official
announcement."
Exactly. Most of those features have been mentioned in various
postings by Ben Hermans and others all over the place. We needed to
have the whole list brought together.
It's good to have as much as possible compiled for PPC, but running
parts of the OS in emulation isn't a disaster. It will still be the
equivalent of a 250MHz 68040, or thereabouts, and show an obvious
speedup compared to any "real" Amiga. IMO some commenters exaggerate
the difference between emulated and native code - it's only a factor
of two. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 28 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ole-Egil on 08-Aug-2002 06:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 11 (Samface):
"What bugs me about the W3C HTML 4.01 standard is that some of the previous HTML versions tag attributes has been removed, like <TD>'s background attribute for example. I use it alot when designing websites and therefore my pages never pass the W3C HTML 4.01 validation test. That really bites as I have still yet to find some kind of a replacement functionality for this."
Can you spell CSS?
http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-CSS21-20020802/colors.html
Why not just use html 3.2 final? Why even TRY to use 4.01 if you are not gonna use css? |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 29 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 08-Aug-2002 06:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
>I have a feeling that intuition and other OS libraries will still be emulated.
>God...
You're quite wrong. Both Intuition and Reaction will be fully PPC native. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 30 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ole-Egil on 08-Aug-2002 06:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 29 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Bah, don't bother. He's an idiot ;-) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 31 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Elwood on 08-Aug-2002 07:03 GMT | | Hey "Anonymous", do you know there is a field called "Name" in the "Add a comment" form. It's used to put your name in, in case you have one and you want us to read your ideas and maybe to agree with you. Until this moment, your comments are a waste of time... |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 32 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Budda on 08-Aug-2002 07:03 GMT | The logo looks good IMO, nice to see it on the front of the AOS4 box ;-)
I feel a sense of renewed belief that things may still be good when A1 is released with AOS4 now. Not sure why...
Now where's the MorphOS v1.0 feature list to compare then eh? :o) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 33 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 07:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
>The concrete and the reality are already here, their name : MorphOS on
>Pegasos ! ;))
Yay! The concrete is here finally! Pour it in!!!!!!!!! Weeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 34 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dakang on 08-Aug-2002 07:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
I sincerely hope for your sake that you're like 6 years old. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 35 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 07:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 28 (Ole-Egil):
I *am* using CSS, but I didn't know that you could define tables data cells backgrounds in it. (I've been using plain HTML for way too long and I'm still kind of new to CSS.) Great link, Thanks! :-) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 36 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ole-Egil on 08-Aug-2002 07:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 35 (Samface):
I am thy humble servant, as long as you don't start any frigging discussion with Alkis that degenerates into a 600 post thread. Is that a deal?
Hey, it was worth a try, ok? ;-) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 37 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 07:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 36 (Ole-Egil):
LOL! Well, I cannot promise anything, if Alkis pushes the wrong buttons... ;-) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 38 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 08-Aug-2002 07:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 31 (Elwood):
"Hey "Anonymous", do you know there is a field called "Name" in the "Add a comment" form. It's used to put your name in, in case you have
one and you want us to read your ideas and maybe to agree with you.
Until this moment, your comments are a waste of
time..."
He was probably found under a bush and nobody bothered to give him a
name. ;-) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 39 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ole-Egil on 08-Aug-2002 07:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 37 (Samface):
I need something to force him from pushing those buttons, then. Hmm. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 40 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 07:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
You can't read english ? It says original Exec is m68 asm, ExecSG is Exec in OS4 and it's not m68k asm. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 41 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 07:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
Mr.Anonymous seems to be somewhat schizofrenic or something... ;-) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 42 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Derf on 08-Aug-2002 08:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 41 (Samface):
now everyone should realise, it isnt Morphos/Amiga Inc thats the enemy, its all those damn anonymous ppl ;-)
as soon as we all group up and rid ANN of this scourge we can go back to how things are atm :-) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 43 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Chris Y on 08-Aug-2002 08:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 5 (JoannaK):
> "New library interface"
> Without seeing it, don't know what to expect. I kinsa liked that old one too.
This is a minor API change for programmers, unnoticable to everyone else, but is supposed to speed up library accesses significantly.
> "PPC native datatypes"
> What about Gif and Jpeg formats? are those supppoted?
Insofar as Datatypes can support them, yes. If the datatypes for these, erm, data types aren't included in OS4 then there are plenty to be downloaded from Aminet (even PPC ones)
> "MUI PPC (for legacy applications)"
> What's used on new applications?
Reaction, officially.
Chris |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 44 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 08-Aug-2002 09:01 GMT | In reply to Comment 43 (Chris Y):
"but is supposed to speed up library accesses significantly"
Speed up compared to what? |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 45 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by takemehomegrandma on 08-Aug-2002 09:07 GMT | Well, nice features. I like that they includes some apps like Ibrowse, a backup system, AHI and so on, into the system. But we allready knew about most of the released features, didn't we? Not many new things here.
Nice to have some of the system components natively on PPC, but isn't that what people expects on a NG PPC OS? I wonder how much of the OS4 will still be 68k OS3.x? I guess that emulation will work just fine, but couldn't they just recompile all the 68k scources to PPC and OS4 (as some people claims that one of the competitors have done)?
;-)
> Current work centers around Intuition and Reaction, 2D/3D drivers, A1 Bios,
> additional kernel functionality (virtual addressing and page-based memory
> handling) and the integration of the 68K emulation into the system.
Well, it certainly looks like they still have a long way to go with some vital parts there. Let's hope it all will be ready(!) and bugtested(!!) on the release in december. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 46 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by 3seas on 08-Aug-2002 09:14 GMT | how much of existing Amiga software can run on it?
How much requires the emulator to run, how much needs to be recompiled to PPC to run?
How much won't run at all? (i.e. Toaster)
I wonder these things due to arguements some use against AROS.... it's about the only arguement presented against AROS... gotta recompile application.. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 47 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 08-Aug-2002 09:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 27 (Don Cox):
>It's good to have as much as possible compiled for PPC, but running
>parts of the OS in emulation isn't a disaster. It will still be the
>equivalent of a 250MHz 68040, or thereabouts, and show an obvious
>speedup compared to any "real" Amiga. IMO some commenters exaggerate
>the difference between emulated and native code - it's only a factor
of two.
IIRC, MOS guys have been saying 300Mhz 060 should be possible, and I think that 600MhzG3 should be a lot faster than 2* the speed of 300MhzClassicAmiga060...
But never the less, even emulated code is fast on a y2k CPU. |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 48 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Christian Kemp on 08-Aug-2002 09:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 42 (Derf):
I'm afraid it might be too late for that.
The only remaining question is, should ANN burn out, or just fade away? |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 49 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by IanG on 08-Aug-2002 09:47 GMT | I don't see why a bunch of people are suddenly starting to wail "why isn't the whole OS being made PPC native?". This was stated clearly from the outset. It is a wise decision because it means the product arrives quicker, and the primary performance issues have been addressed. Making the whole thing PPC native would take 2 or 3 times as long for another 10-20% performance improvement.
And however bad the emulation is, it will be a lot faster than the fastest '060, which is reason enough to buy in itself, for those wanting to continue with their current applications. (Assuming sufficient compatibility.) |
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| AmigaOS 4.0 features have been revealed : Comment 50 of 118 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 08-Aug-2002 09:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 48 (Christian Kemp):
Too late? For what, requiring having to login with a user name before posting? |
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