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[Rant] Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again)ANN.lu
Posted on 11-Aug-2002 13:33 GMT by Cyberwlf56 comments
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Microsoft have cracked down on retailers trying to sell alternate OS's when they sign a contract to sell Windoze. (This theoretically effecting people selling Amithlon pre-installed, or the likes). Essentially saying... : (from slashdot.org) "Some Sys Admin sent in an email that he got from Dell which basically says Microsoft will no longer allow Dell to sell PCs without an operating system. " - But if you think this was only Dell, the wording seems to effect all retailers, read article for more information: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/10/1420208.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 1 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 11-Aug-2002 12:04 GMT
If you read the comments on slashdot the credibility of this becomes clear pretty quick.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 2 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 11-Aug-2002 12:34 GMT
Microsoft haven't "cracked down" on anyone. They allegedly sent an email to Slashdot reader reminding Dell that they it is against the terms of their contract to ship PCs without an OS.
This has nothing to do with retailers. And anyway, the distributors of Amithlon weren't exactly very innovative with their marketing. That product could have a made a real killing if they've advertised in PC magazines, or got a boxed version of it into PC World. So it's a moot-point about pre-installing it on PCs (which M$ hasn't and cannot stop anyway).
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 3 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 11-Aug-2002 13:57 GMT
It's Slashdot. Most of the users can't see past thier shrine to the god that is Linus Torvalds, and will quite happily blow anything that could potentially make MS look bad out of all proportion.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 4 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 11-Aug-2002 14:00 GMT
If you want to know the credibility of the article...... call Dell...
Maybe they will even tell you who their competitors are so you can call
them too.
Sept 1st is becomming popular.....
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 5 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 11-Aug-2002 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 ([JC]):
Linus the slashdot god..... yeah right....you do know he is a poster there.
Maybe you should look at how he is moderated...
Or wait, RMS must be the Slashdot god then......<rolls eyes>
is there like something you are claiming about others that is true not of
them but of yourself (which does seem to be the Amiga follower norm)...
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 6 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 11-Aug-2002 14:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 ([JC]):
Oh wait.... here's another slashdot MS article blown out of proportion...
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/08/10/0056223.shtml?tid=99
And what of this article:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/07/1335219
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=37558&cid=4032212
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 7 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 11-Aug-2002 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 ([JC]):
Oh yeah.... and what's up with all the MS ads on Linux articles....?????
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 8 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-Aug-2002 15:12 GMT
> Microsoft have cracked down on retailers trying to sell alternate OS's
Is M$ protecting their "Intellectual Property"?
;-)
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 9 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Aug-2002 16:30 GMT
I'm sure the thought of OS X on x86-based machines has MS wetting their pants.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 10 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 11-Aug-2002 17:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (takemehomegrandma):
"> Microsoft have cracked down on retailers trying to sell alternate OS's
Is M$ protecting their "Intellectual Property"?
;-)"
Well if Dell were selling PC's with Windows and not paying microsoft for its software , and they sued Dell microsoft would be protecting their IP and they would within their rights to do so.
Now I hope you were just being silly , and not being a stupid amiga inc basher .
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 11 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 11-Aug-2002 17:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 ([JC]):
Yep thats true .. I reckon its between 5 -> 10% of linux users that have a clue about what their doing , the rest ... well they don't like microsoft etc and they think their really making Bill Gate wet his pants ( not likely ).
Sounds very similar to another OS , can't put my finger on it at the moment ;)
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 12 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by sutro on 11-Aug-2002 18:09 GMT
Wait a second. M$'s monopollistic behaviour is not news. M$ has "forced" things multiple times at the past and this can be, and has been, testified in court by many of its favourite children. And yes, that includes Dell.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 13 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 11-Aug-2002 18:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (cOrpse):
and more and more MS cronies are infilterating slashdot....as they are else where. It was in an interoffice and partners memo.......didn't you get yours?
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 14 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 11-Aug-2002 19:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (takemehomegrandma):
>Is M$ protecting their "Intellectual Property"?
No.. they're protecting their market share ;)
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 15 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 11-Aug-2002 22:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (3seas):
You're one of those of whom I was on about, it seems. I am neither pro-MS or anti-MS (hell, if I was pro-MS, I'd own a legal copy of all of thier software and probably be broke by now :) but some of the claims made against them are, quite frankly, ludicrous.
Linux annoys me. It is not the be-all and end-all of operating systems, and to be honest, in the desktop market, it's not even a start of competition for Windows for 90% of people. People seem to think of Linus as some sort of diety, when in fact he's just someone whose uni project happened to draw a lot of interest (the fact that it started as a uni project shows in many areas of its architecture). What even more annoys me is he now thinks he is the world's number one authority on code, and what he says is taken as gospel.
Sure, there's a lot Linux can do that Windows can't, but then belive it or not (and i'm sure many Linux fanatics will foam at the mouth upon reading this) there's a lot Windows has to offer that Linux doesn't even touch upon - such as user friendliness, and driver support.
Then, there's other OS alternatives that don't centre around a "I work for free, so must you" licence (Yes, I hate the GPL, live with it), such as FreeBSD. I'm actually very interested in FreeBSD, mainly for server/network orientated things - Windows is still my desktop OS of choice for many reasons, and I rarely experience any of the problems that most Linux/Amiga users seem to quote with much frequency.
Anyway, this is an Amiga forum. Bashing MS right now seems more like biting the hand that feeds (I'm actually surprised MS didn't wholesale buy any useful tech Amiga had to offer long ago, just to get it off the market)
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 16 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 12-Aug-2002 00:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 ([JC]):
"Anyway, this is an Amiga forum. Bashing MS right now seems more like biting the hand that feeds"
Words of a true name follower.
Maybe you should have fist and mouth word with the original poster....moron.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 17 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 0 on 12-Aug-2002 04:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 ([JC]):
{
>>Linux annoys me. It is not the be-all and end-all of operating systems, and to be honest, in the desktop market, it's not even a start of >>competition for Windows for 90% of people. People seem to think of Linus as some sort of diety, when in fact he's just someone whose uni project >>happened to draw a lot of interest (the fact that it started as a uni project shows in many areas of its architecture). What even more annoys me is >>he now thinks he is the world's number one authority on code, and what he says is taken as gospel.
}
It shows that Linux annoys you. The point is that Linux might not be good for 90% of all people, but it sure is for more than 1 or 2 percent. I think you are a bit confused about linux, as many others. Give the linux distros a try and you will see. Once the installation process of *good* distros are improved, things will change. If you can imagine Gentoo Linux with a graphical installer such as RH/Mandrake and Suse has, then the world will be slightly upgraded :) As about Linus? Diety, right. Like Linux users are even slightly as fanatic as the Amiga Inc. followers.
{
>>Sure, there's a lot Linux can do that Windows can't, but then belive it or not (and i'm sure many Linux fanatics will foam at the mouth upon >>reading this) there's a lot Windows has to offer that Linux doesn't even touch upon - such as user friendliness, and driver support.
}
This is bullshit! KDE 3.0.2 has now come so far, that I would measure it easier than Windows ever was. It has networking, filesharing, great printing and much more, all accessable with a click of a button. It is just a bliss to use, and merge Liquid into the system, and you have one of the prettiest desktops around. For driver support? Are you kidding me? Perhaps Windows(XP) has it easy on all kinds of wierd WINDOWS APPROVED OEM products, like laptops and wierd desktops - but as far as device support is consearned, Linux is in my opinion extremely well placed. You do not have to install new drivers, get driver disks and download, no no, the drivers come with the OS. Ok, you might have to compile the kernel if you do not have all the modules built, but if a OEM would sell a prebuilt linux system, you would see that quite more than you think would use the OS.
Think about it, after installing Windows, you use hours of downloading new drivers. On Linux, all the drivers come with the system, even for those odd ISA cards of the past.
{
>>Then, there's other OS alternatives that don't centre around a "I work for free, so must you" licence (Yes, I hate the GPL, live with it), such as >>FreeBSD. I'm actually very interested in FreeBSD, mainly for server/network orientated things - Windows is still my desktop OS of choice for many >>reasons, and I rarely experience any of the problems that most Linux/Amiga users seem to quote with much frequency.
}
Lucky you, perhaps you should ask in this office how many times the employees' puters have gone west - then ask which computer has stayed without a crash, and you'll come on this one, the Linux one. Windows crashes all the time and use alot of our time. You may say what you want about the GPL, but it has made it easier for students to get jobs, as they can learn application and programming without having to pay heaps of cash to powerhungry corporations.
see you
{
>>Anyway, this is an Amiga forum. Bashing MS right now seems more like biting the hand that feeds (I'm actually surprised MS didn't wholesale buy any >>useful tech Amiga had to offer long ago, just to get it off the market)
}
This is an Amiga forum, not an Amiga Inc. forum. It was made for the Amiga community, and that community is in no way responsible for who feeds who in the corporate world. Open your eyes.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 18 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 12-Aug-2002 06:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
This is exactly the reason for why Amiga did the right choice by not going x86. PPC may not be the cheapest or the fastest option, but it's not far from it and most importantly; M$ can't get in our way. You don't realize how important such advantage is until something like this happens.
But then, in the end, Amiga will rule them all. ;-)
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 19 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by hgm on 12-Aug-2002 06:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (0):
Well spoken. The Linux system is a very good alternate route for free computing.
Many big names jump the bandwagon. IBM HP SUN to name a few.
Amiga OS 4.0 is not multi-user.There is no memory protection is the sense UNIX or Linux
has. So OS 4.0 is only ,for now, an upgrade port to a new processor, which is imo the wrong way to go. x86 is the way to go. Mainstream. Unfortunatly Motorola did not seize it's chances in the '80.
AOS will die like BEOS. How many copies AOS 4.0 has to be sold before
the balance tells it is profitable?
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 20 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 12-Aug-2002 09:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (hgm):
Die like BeOS? Didn't BeOS die because they switched to x86 and then got blocked out from the market by M$? That's a perfect example how we should *not* go about this, don't you think?
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 21 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 12-Aug-2002 09:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Samface):
In my oppinion, BeOS died because it had no purpose. Sure, it was technically a superb OS, with a very interesting way to handle media streams internally, but it never got the applications and it never got the users. I think they would have succeded much better if they had made sure to port or develop some state of the art applications for a particular purpose, say sequencers and digital audio editing, and then bundled some custom hardware (a computer with midi ports and lots of audio inputs/outputs, perhaps even a USB mixerboard or something) with the OS and that application. Selling a complete solution that offers something more than the existing solutions is definitely one way to go for small niche systems.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 22 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by hgm on 12-Aug-2002 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Samface):
The tide/time has changed. M$ cannot do anymore as it likesor used to. China Korea have already said goodby to M$. Asia will switch sooner or later. So kill what?? Maybe BEOS management in conjunction with the stars were bad in 98 99 ... as trees flourished to the clouds and above. Those times are gone. Anyway Mac will switch to x86 , not because it is that better but their marketshare will fall rapidly to a niche level.
But in case of Amiga OS 4.0 we are talking about 1000 copies or less. I do hope that is not the case of course. But AInc. has done a very bad job and cheats.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 23 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 12-Aug-2002 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (hgm):
Well I need to know this, do you follow Amiga News or do just post lies? : - (
Amiga OS 4.0 has memory protection,
Automatic stack enlargement and many things more just like any otter modern OS, and I disagree on the way to go part, well is basically about the there was already may PPC program out there when this discussion started, and there big little ended part, and some thing about x86 how need the Amiga option, lastly there is tow i686 clone, AROS and Amitalon, do we need an otter one? : - )
Comment to #15
>Sure, there's a lot Linux can do that Windows can't, but then belive it or not (and i'm sure >many Linux fanatics will foam at the mouth upon reading this) there's a lot Windows has to >offer that Linux doesn't even touch upon - such as user friendliness, and driver support.
Well may be the Linux users and Windows users have different interests and may be this small issue is not big deal for the average Linux user.
Way do I use Linux, well basically I like the idea that once share program you make with otters and they share with you, I like the that get free development programs i like the that I have more the one terminal to write in, I like scripting I like every thing Linux stands fore,
You know I do not need pirate software, as the software is free on Linux.
Or the otter option is run windows spend allot of money on software you donít like or donít know how is.
Comment to #17,
<Drivers comes with the OS part>
Kernel that comes with the OS do not come with latest drivers,
Try type demsg and really read the kernel text, you find quickly out that youíre
VIA chips set donít properly use UDAM 66/100.
One otter issue is that drivers that are provided in the kernel or with Xfree86 is not always the vendor drivers, and they may perform poorly.
Once you have the drivers there is no problem, there is no need updating drivers every day is there, if the system is stable.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 24 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 12-Aug-2002 10:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (takemehomegrandma):
I agree with you. If an OS "bundle" is general purpose then it has to compete head on
with Windows before it has a solid large marketplace. A sensible strategy is to
make it "specific purpose" to start with and grow from there.
Amiga originally started with the home creative - game playing and drawing pictures ( DPaint )
and the PC started with the home business user.
Atari ST went for the home creative - game playing and music ( notator and midi )
Apple Mac went for the publishing market.
Well, to be fair initially they were not targetted at those markets but the strengths
of the OS and hardware combination attracted the markets they ended up dominating.
All expanded and only the PC really succeeded overall, as we now know.
The OS has to be capable of general purpose in order to cope with functional expansion
but it has to attract an initial core market.
What was it for BeOS? Anti-Microsoft users dont make a market to which you can sell
commodities.
Whats that for the Amiga nowadays? None of us know for sure.
I think it has to be the home creative again. That means great GFX packages, some good games a good music package
and a good development environment. That has to be a bundle, or something you can
put together reletively easy after just shelling out on the OS.
Sure Candy Factory is nice but it isnt going to bring people flocking to the platform again.
Look at the non user friendly graphics packages that are out there at the moment?
I wonder how many people bought STs and Amigas because of STOS and AMOS. Got to be quite
a few I reckon.
So, good dev env for gaming, good art and music packages. Average office utilities. What sign
do we see of these on the platform?
LOL!
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 25 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 12-Aug-2002 11:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (DaveW):
Well hope no one about an Amiga because of AMOS, if any thing Blitz Basic is allot better, well Amos was the fastest basic program that you could get on Amiga, before BlitzBasic, blitzbasic can compile basic code to assembler, Amos just make bundles the runtime environment with optimised basic binary mode, how ever it was possible to add modules that where optimised in Assembler in Amos basic and blitz basic, in Amos there was an possible to add assembler code with out exec header to ABK bank, and run it from there to.
AMOS where not system friendly, BlitzBasic has an system friendly mode Amiga mode and an non system friendly Blitz mode.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 26 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 12-Aug-2002 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Kjetil):
Sure, but STOS captured the imagination at the time and then so did AMOS. When Blitz
came along it blew the minds of new users.
Its an enabler, like Visual Basic on Windows and DrDialog on OS/2.
Sure, we all love to deride it but being able to do things /simply/ and produce programs
that are otherwise indistinguishable from commercial apps is quite a pull even if the user
never actually creates something that can be sold.
Most new people start out writing in a scripted fashion and find Java a bit boring because
OO gets in the way of "scripts".
Rexx and ARexx are good system automation tools but most people never use them.
Perhaps SHEEP will fill that gap but IIRC its not OS4.0
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 27 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Aug-2002 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Kjetil):
> Amiga OS 4.0 has memory protection
No it doesn't. At least not in a sense most people define MP.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 28 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Alan Croft on 12-Aug-2002 12:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Kjetil):
Even though PPC Amiga plus OS4.0 is the biggest leap forwards since the first Amiga. Much of the users have dissapeared. (Helped by some uncompetitive retailers/distributors who think they don't need to drop their profit margins to 1-5%. Even though PC retailers have too in order to make money/attract customers).
I only hope a user base of at least 50 to 100k are hibernating.
The PC market has sucked all the fun out of games in favour of super graphics and a zillion bugs. Applications suck up huge resources so they can load the extra 1001 features which you never use.
As PC users get more lifeless. Amiga users will have their spirit returning.
Continued product support is what makes people buy a computer/console. Amiga has the most resilient fan base ever, in the home market at least.
Dreamcast people got shafted by their company of choice, because of low profits. Be Inc was a billion in the red (beyond recovery) and Palm don't look like they give two hoots for BeOs users.
Amiga is truly the safest platform for the home user to invest in. (The Mac-fan has not been tested yet).
Maybe one day the Wintel box will become so fat and full of bugs even business users will give up on it.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 29 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Aug-2002 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (0):
"For driver support? Are you kidding me? Perhaps Windows(XP) has it easy on all kinds of wierd WINDOWS APPROVED OEM products, like laptops and wierd desktops - but as far as device support is consearned, Linux is in my opinion extremely well placed. You do not have to install new drivers, get driver disks and download, no no, the drivers come with the OS. Ok, you might have to compile the kernel if you do not have all the modules built,"
ROTFL.
First off, Windows comes as standard with drivers for all commonly used hardware (which was available at the time that CD was mastered).
Second, you seem to be telling us that Windows is bad because you just install drivers but Linux is good because you recompile the fricking kernel to add some drivers?!
Get real!!!
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 30 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by hgm on 12-Aug-2002 13:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Kjetil):
<Well I need to know this, do you follow Amiga News or do just post lies? : - (
Amiga OS 4.0 has memory protection.>
I will never call you a liar. That in the first place.
Secondly, if you can turn on/off memory protection, than it is not MP as it is in Unix and Linux as I said. It is a kind of MP. Please don't expose yourself as you did. See things as they are and don't fool yourself or anybody else.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 31 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 12-Aug-2002 15:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
Windows and Linux for x86 have almost equal driver coverage - albiet
on Linux often with reduced support for features.
It is rare you have to recompile the kernel and almost never these
days for drivers.
In fact never, period.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 32 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 12-Aug-2002 15:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Alan Croft):
> Amiga is truly the safest platform for the home user to invest in
Haha. Yeah, right. I belived this 4 years or so ago when Escom first bought the Amiga. Then I sort of belived it when Gateway took over.
Right now, I don't belive anything AInc says until they deliver what they've failed to deliver so far - HARD SOLID EVIDENCE of a new Amiga product.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 33 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 12-Aug-2002 15:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
Yeah, how come it's unacceptable to have to install drivers in Windows, but it's perfectly acceptable to have to rebuild your kernel in Linux ? Double standards methinks.
Furthermore, so what, you have to install drivers for all your hardware. In most cases this is as simple as giving Windows the driver CD when it asks for it, or as simple as running a self extracting executable. Not so on Linux.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 34 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 12-Aug-2002 16:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 ([JC]):
Actually if you buy a mainstream distro they mostly install straight out of the box. If you like they will handle virtually all decisions for you and the hardware recognition is pretty good. The only difference is that, if you wish, you can dive in and get your hands dirty in the mechanics of the system. Something MS will never allow. I keep hearing how linux will never be good enough on the desktop but I find that for my usage it works wonderfully. I miss some things about amiga but there are many things I do not miss. Fortunately most of the things I do not miss will be addressed in OS4....maybe. :)
coldfire
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 35 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 12-Aug-2002 19:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (coldfire):
> The only difference is that, if you wish, you can dive in and get your
> hands dirty in the mechanics of the system. Something MS will never allow
I don't agree. You can do a lot with Windows by modifying the registry - it just takes a little intuition and a bit of breaking to learn how it all works - same as *nix/amigaos really :)
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 36 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 0 on 13-Aug-2002 06:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 ([JC]):
You don't know what you're talking about. Windows doesn't allow you to "get your hands dirty"; but if you think editing text-strings in the registry is exactly that, then think again. RegEdit (the only way to sensibly(kindof) edit the register) is a mess, and not designed to be used systematically (99% identical "foldernames" in the registry for one thing). Linux gives you manual pages up and down on how to get the full control of your own system - something I loved about the Amiga, too. Full control. Windows isn't a Personal Computer OS, it is a Corporate Owned Computer OS *COOOS* if you like! Pathetic as it sounds - Windows is not about you owning an OS to control your hardware, it is on RENT! You are not allowed to remove the furniture, as it comes with the appartment, get it??
If easy of use is *really* measured by intelligent people as the standard, from where easiness is measured from, then people must be REALLY stupid like monkeys! Linux has come SO far in terms of easy-of-use, that people claiming otherwise is happily and openly admitting their dumb asses are worth an IQ of 35.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 37 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 0 on 13-Aug-2002 06:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (0):
"If easy of use is *really* measured by intelligent"if WINDOWS is *rea...
Sorry, I am just pissed off of all this stupidity. I'll go away now.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 38 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 13-Aug-2002 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (0):
Cant remove the furniture eh. I suggest you do your homework first - programs such as 98lite allow you to remove lots of parts of windows, such as IE, and customise it. Programs like Litestep allow you to completely replace the default windows desktop system. There are other modifications available that don't immediately spring to mind.
As for linux, sure you can modify your system, this is after you've taken a PhD in unix and put up with a lot of more knowlegeable lofty arse linux users saying "read the manpage, l00ser" when you're stuck on what to do. The catch is, you will at some time or another need to modify your system, because there's no coherency between ANY of the linux distributions.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 39 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 13-Aug-2002 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 ([JC]):
I like what you say about Windows, it is entirely true and blows away some of the
myths that are repeated often on here.
But what you say about Linux is a total crock of shit. Sorry but thats how I assess it.
Removing and adding software and auto-dependency checking through user friendly default
tools like MandrakeUpdate. Automatic security patching. Easy configuration and even
complex configuration is made simple ( similar to the visual prefs and mui types of configuration
you can have ) and intuitive. Switching window managers, easy as piss after a night on the
beer.
Configuring peripherals, easy.
Configuring Linux in text mode is as easy as configuring Windows using only notepad, it can
be done but why waste your time?
Sure, debunk the myths surrounding Windows but dont spread more fud about Linux while you are at it.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 40 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by 0 on 13-Aug-2002 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 ([JC]):
Bullshit! I know about all those shell replacements, and addons like Stardocks products! But they don't let you more the furniture, they just act as veils on TOP of your furniture, at the cost with app compatability. I've run all three (98 lite, object desktop, litestep), and was amazed at how elegantly they crashed my desktop several times. With litestep I couldn't even run some programs.
Now, if you did your homework, you would know what KDE is all about. In addition, you should know that certain distros, such as Mandrake and RedHat, just love to mix and match Gnome and KDE apps all over the place. Now if some of you pretending wisemen would try a consistent KDE desktop - then I think many of you would change your minds.
Enough about KDE - the point is that Linux has matured so much over the last few months that still holding on to the ol' "it's not mainstream, it's not easy" attitude is just a drag. You DO need to use the console from time to time, and the same goes for Windows (SoundBlaster commands in autoexec.bat anyone?), AmigaOS (lha is usually executed from shell, arexx, and... well()), BeOS... Why do you think they have a shell. And oh, just because they use commands does not make them hard. John Doe used Dos in the past.
bleh
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 41 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 13-Aug-2002 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (DaveW):
@DaveW
" I like what you say about Windows, it is entirely true and blows away some of the myths that are repeated often on here."
As you say it's "essentially" true. I'd have to add a couple of provisos though, namely that the Registry is NOT an intuitive place to mess around in, and that the various replacement shells are not without caveats. So far, I have yet to see such a (full replacement) shell that behaves properly in all conditions. It should also be mentioned that the various programs that "remove the furniture" are generally regarded as hacks, and you won't get sympathy or support if you get nasty side effects as a result.
I also have problems with the Registry concept as implemented by Microsoft, but that's probably just an ideological difference of opinion.
" But what you say about Linux is a total crock of shit. Sorry but thats how I assess it."
Agreed. JC's portrayal of Linux is as prejudiced and inaccurate as the misapprehensions about Windows he is arguing against.
" Sure, debunk the myths surrounding Windows but dont spread more fud about Linux while you are at it. "
Hear, hear.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 42 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 13-Aug-2002 17:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Bill Hoggett):
Oh sh!t part of the software portfolio I have ready to roll on OS4.0
includes an AmigaOS Env editor in the style of regedit32 as a free
tool.
Great.
:-/
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 43 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 13-Aug-2002 18:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (DaveW):
Why is that a problem?
Not that my opinion is that important, but I said I have a problem with Microsoft's implementation of the Registry itself, not the editing tools.
AFAIK, OS4 is not suddenly going to have all its vital information - from system configuration to installation paths to environment variables to plain registration details - stored in one monolithic file.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 44 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 14-Aug-2002 04:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (hgm):
The fact that you can turn on/off memory protection donít make it less MP,
What you failed to say is that 68k programs do not have MP, this is true, after all you canít have memory protection on 68k programs as they do not use an modern argument passing system it is totally based on shard memory all the way, an there is no track record in 68k so programs canít free memory from crashed 68k programs, butt this is the past, most 68k programs will be absolute when they get ported to PPC OS4.0 binary or when there comes an compotator to the old programís, in the end you most likely wont run Any 68k programs, just like you do not run any win31 programs win windows2000, they are simply out dated.
And as far at turning on / off memory protection is concerned, there is no need to turn off memory protection unless you are making an patch or making an update for the OS, when you are finished with product you simply get Ainc to include it in the new Exec kernel, this way every one else can have it turned on, to protect there system from crashes.
Well what Iím saying it is and advantage to be able to turn on and off MP, not a disadvantage.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 45 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by hgm on 14-Aug-2002 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Kjetil):
Redneck's talk.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 46 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by hgm on 14-Aug-2002 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Kjetil):
Redneck's talk.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 47 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 14-Aug-2002 08:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Kjetil):
kjetil, perhaps you need to be more specific. At the moment I take issue with
:"that 68k programs do not have MP"
So, how about 68k Linux ( requires MMU ) running 68k binaries with memory protection?
It is perfectly feasible to rewrite Exec on 68k to support MP without breaking existing
68k applications. Are you saying there is something in the Exec implementation for OS4
that makes this impossible? If you are then spill the details because this is info
not in the public domain that I certainly want to hear about.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 48 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 14-Aug-2002 11:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (DaveW):
Okey getting in to details,
Linux 68k where made on i386 in 1995, linux is very flexible berceuse itís open source, so when ever an GCC get updated the binaries follows, as most programs are open source or GPL, the first linux kernel was made in 1992, in 1992/1993 the first Pentiumís where made.
The linux system it self is flexible even if you break binary complicity it is easy to create new ones, just recompile, on the linux system arguments are pasted using the stack,
On the AmigaOS where made back in 1980ís the first 68000 cpuís where never hade MMU, so the OS where made like this when pasting arguments to then exec, you basicly use the D0 to D7 registers, A7 is used for stack, not to be touched, A1 is used mostly to paste the address of the paste to read or modified, this do not correspond to memory protections by it self, the 2en ting is the hole Arexx stuff is based on Exec Communication ports, Exec communications works in the same way it allows commands to sent back and fort between programs address is provided by program and args are written in that address space the program is not aware of if an memory allocation is going to shared or not , okey so you say way not just protect the program space, well no most programs coded in Assembler use reserve memory inside that space as well, so it can be read only, and if that address is shared with an otter program it will brake MP,
There exists and MMU table where you can define if memory is to be Read/Write, and so on, programs on the amiga that enforce programs with MMU, do not full protect the system, and it slows down the hole program as it hits the subroutines activated by the MMU, many times during execution.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 49 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 14-Aug-2002 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (DaveW):
And Iím not saying you canít use the MMU if the program is code for it, Iím just saying that the 68k emulation of OS4.0 canít protect the 68k programs fully.
Microsoft extend their monopolistic behaviours (again) : Comment 50 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Brad Ray on 14-Aug-2002 16:13 GMT
Well, as far as amithlon goes...
Nobody is gonna run amithlon as thier only os anyway.
What the heck are you talkin' about?
You can say that you are gonna run an amithlon only system all you want, but when it comes right down to it...
You'll put windows back on.
Windows is the only OS that has any support from the mainstream 3rd parties.
Besides, I'll guarantee you as good as amithlon will be, it will not be that good!
It's just an emulator, no matter what the arguement.
Not to take away from amithlon...
If it's good, I'll use it :)
But there is no way in this world, you're gonna use it all alone.... period
Now, for the linux issue.
Linux is dung!!!
Unless you like to spend every waking moment of your life recompiling your kernal to get this or that to work, linux is nothing but a bunch of hype!!!
I bought into the linux hype when it was high, only to have about 6 store bought versions that sit forever in the top of my closet.
Suse 7.0 Suse 7.1 mandrake 7.2 mandrake 8.0 Redhat 7.0 Slackware 7.1
That's some of the major one's that I purchased.
let me run some things by you that make me sick to my stomach...
1) you must be running as root in order to install this software.
(and then, when you do, you can't use it in your seperate account... only in root will it be run)
and it is a no no to run things in root, because if you do... you will crash the heck out of it, only leading to a reinstall.
2) Linux now supports speedtouch usb modems!
hahahahhahahaahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahaahahaaa!!!!!!!!
That's the funniest one of them all.
Sure, you say that you have your speedtouch up and running on your linux system.
I don't doubt it.
But look at all the trouble you went to in order to accomplish this mighty task.
And don't give me this junk about...
all I had to do is this or all I had to do is that.
Save it nature boy!!!
3) I don't have time to go through all of them...
Nor do i want to go through all of them, for it makes me sick just to think about it.
The fact of the matter is.... Linux is cow poo!!! and a bunch of hype.
and by the way...
If linux is what you think stability is, you need to get a real life.
It's the most unstable OS there is!!!
It will crash everytime you want to run anything of any value.
Even the apps that come with the install will crash it!!!
And when it does crash, you'll be nicely escorted to a cli outside of the gui enviornment.
and guess what...
You'll never get back in...
Reinstallation time.
JUNKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!
Think I don't know what I'm talkin' bout?
Try it for yourself.
Go and buy some of the newest versions of all the major distros and see if it doesnt happen to you.
Don't worry about the replies that come from this arguement.
You can be sure of this...
I'll get all kind of responses saying... you just dont know what you're doing.
Go ahead and reply.
Doesn't make any difference.
When this thread is over, one fact will remain...
Linux is a bunch of cow poo hype!
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