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[News] Thendic France comment on OS4.0ANN.lu
Posted on 17-Aug-2002 19:55 GMT by cheesegrate165 comments
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On an ANN thread Bill and Raquel comment on their attitude towareds AmigaOS4 and it's appearance on the pegasos.
"If AmigaOS4.0 is fully finished and running natively on a PPC we will be happy for Hyperion and Amiga Inc. Undoubtedly, in this community there will be more than one person who will copy a legally obtained copy of the operating system onto the Pegasos. How will Amiga Inc. stop this? We cannot control this and neither can they. If AmigaOS4.0 becomes what it is claimed to be – great! We will sell a few more Pegasos machines. Thanks Hyperion! We wish them our best. We have absolutely nothing against this effort."

Personally I think that no hardware developers who don't licence the amiga name will pay money for certification to get os4 running on their boards. However because the pegasos and the amiga one share the same northbridge and BIOS (atm), it should not be difficult for a developer to port os4 across to the pegasos. The question is; Will Hyperion and Amiga Inc allow this without wanting money from Bplan/Thendic France? And does it matter?
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 1 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 17-Aug-2002 19:50 GMT
> Will Hyperion and Amiga Inc allow this without wanting money from
> Bplan/Thendic France?
Any instances of AmigaOS running on "unlicensed" hardware unfortunately have to be w4r3zed by definition - it's only to be sold together with "licensed" hardware. AI couldn't demand any money from any hardware vendor though. How could they? "People are running illegal copies of our OS on hardware sold by you. Pay up!" Heh.
AI apparently wanted it this way, only pirates should have the better product - an AmigaOS that runs on more hardware. Paying customers are supposed to be happy with "licensed" hardware only available from "licensed" vendors, which happens to be a rather short list of one item for any forseeable future. 0% paying customers on any other hardware. Good thinking!
Sure Bill/Raquel is right in that in sooner or later (i.e. hours or days after its release), OS4 *will* be cracked, and if necessary have whatever components necessary replaced, to run on e.g. the Pegasos. No "anti-piracy measure" is more secure just because a hardware vendor is supposed to provide it instead of the software vendor.
AI/Hyperion: Port the OS to as much hardware as possible, sell us the OS. If you don't want to do the porting, let someone else do it. Why start clowning around with other people's hardware?
<nag>
The compulsory licensing must go: http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos/
</nag>
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 2 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 17-Aug-2002 20:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Seehund):
"<nag>
The compulsory licensing must go: http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos/
</nag>"
I doubt its hard to get licenses , You probably just have to ask amiga and supply hardware and tech docs so it can be *ported* . It isn't something to cry about.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 3 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by dakang on 17-Aug-2002 20:46 GMT
..we need new products!!! cos we're starting threads about threads... and that is SO sad! ;-)
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 4 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 17-Aug-2002 20:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (cOrpse):
Hello,
cOrpse said:
"I doubt its hard to get licenses , You probably just have to ask amiga and supply hardware and tech docs so it can be *ported* . It isn't something to cry about."
The problem is not really here but here:
"For hardware which is not capable of being used in conjunction with Amiga WB 3.1 (such as the AmigaOne) we will require, as part of the licence conditions, that a copy of Amiga OS is purchased with all boards sold that are capable of running it." (Source: Original license terms text)
So this apply to the Pegasos, and that's mean no freedom for the customer to really decide what they can have with their computer. What about people that want an AmigaOne or a Pegasos just to run Linux (e.g: The Linux PPC community) ?? They don't care about AmigaOS 4 and so they don't want to purchase it.
That's why Thendic/BPlan or any other hardware makers who doesn't just target the Amiga market but also Linux market or any other PPC OS market can't really be interested by such a license because lot of Linux users that were interested by the computer will not be interested anymore because they don't want to pay for AmigaOS 4 and they just want the hardware + Linux and nothing else.
Maybe some resellers that are interested to sell the Pegasos or any other POP based platform with AmigaOS 4 can get a license and then have an OS 4 version for the hardware and then sell it with OS 4. But the hardware makers or distributors can't force ressellers to sell the hardware with OS 4 even if there are other OSes in addition. Because this remove the complete freedom of OS choice for customers.
Regards
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 5 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 17-Aug-2002 21:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Frodon):
If you look at it this way : People that buy the amigaOne marked as the amigaOne(tm) are 9 out of 10 times going to want to run amigaOS.
The amiga market being as slim as it is at the moment everything has to be done so that amigaOs 4 *sells* if this means shipping it with boards to curve piracy , sharing etc.
To quote a line from southpark "whats the big f*cking deal b*tch" , its not like i can walk into pcWorld and pick up a copy of os4 ( speaking as tho its been released ) or an amigaOne .. The only thing PPC i see are Mac's and if this is what your really getting at ... well.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 6 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Marcus Sundman on 17-Aug-2002 21:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Frodon):
> What about people that want an AmigaOne or a Pegasos just to run Linux
They can buy an AmigaOne or PegaSOS without a dongle (or whatever hardware anti-piracy system that board uses). AmigaOS won't have to be sold with such a board because it isn't capable of running it.
No, that is not the problem. The problem is that AmigaOS (with a USB dongle or ROM or whatever) won't be available for purchase separately, and thus you'll have to get an illegal (and cracked) copy of AmigaOS if you want to run it on an unlicensed board.
However, I highly suspect that when unlicensed hardware is actually available Ainc will change their policy and make AmigaOS available separately for that platform, too.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 7 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 17-Aug-2002 22:54 GMT
Of course the pegasos hardware makers don't care about AmigaOS4 licensing since they expect the cracker community to do their dirty work for them. Officially AmigaOS won't run on the Pegasos but they know people will be getting it cracked off the streets. For them it's a double win, they still sell the hardware and they hurt Amiga by stealing sales. These are dirty tactics but could end up being a double edged sword. Legally they know they are in the clear, and there's not much you can do, but it's definetly a dirty tactic. I know a snake when I see one, and I trust MorphOS/Pegasos about as much as I can throw them.
I'm really starting to think the only viable solution is Aros. Although I want to see Amiga Inc succeed, I think Aros has the right idea. Go Aros.
- Mike
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 8 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 18-Aug-2002 03:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Mike Veroukis):
Dirty tactics ?
Sorry, but they are just refusing to do the distrobution of a competitior's product,
and don't forget that part of the licemce/execup where AInc demanded to have an
insight into the "finacial status".
Selling OS4 is Hyperion's problem, and if they think it is wise to cut themselves of
from some parts of their potential market, then the can only blame one for that.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 9 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 18-Aug-2002 04:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Mike Veroukis):
Mike, I take it your taking for granted that HYPEOS4 will be worth while enough to do a hostile port to the Pegasus? I keep hearing about this dire pirating threat to HYPEOS4. IMO, I highly doubt HYPEOS4 is going to be worth while pirating for years until it becomes not only a mature OS, but significantly better then either LinuxPPC or MOS. Because if it's a not so spectacular OS (or worse), who the hell would want to run it? Because HYPErion has a badge on it? BFD.
Dammy, pulling for both Berniethlon and AROS.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 10 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Aug-2002 04:29 GMT
Another great example of parasitic minds. Good job mr. Bucks, you showed once again what you're worth
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 11 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Aug-2002 04:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Marcus Sundman):
>The problem is that AmigaOS (with a USB dongle or ROM or whatever) won't be
>available for purchase separately
You should check your sources again
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 12 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 18-Aug-2002 04:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (amigammc):
No just an example of someone thinking realistic.
The "hostile port" will happen, and thats not bPlans fault, just like running
MOL on the A1 (which is the same licence-wise) isn't Eyetech's.
OS4 will be seperatly available just for the CS-PPC and B-PPC, but not the
version for the A1, that is what the whole bundling/licence is about.
If you can find any othe info on AInc's website, feel free to provide a link.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 13 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Marcus Sundman on 18-Aug-2002 07:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (amigammc):
>>The problem is that AmigaOS (with a USB dongle or ROM or whatever) won't be
>>available for purchase separately
>
>You should check your sources again
OK. Done.
I quote from "http://os.amiga.com/corporate/041202-mcewen.shtml":
"AmigaOS4 and all future versions will ship only on those hardware products to which Amiga Inc has specifically granted a license after reviewing the capabilities of both the solution provider and their product. The only exclusion to this policy is a temporary measure to support the community members who have invested heavily in existing PPC accelerators and will cover products where an Amiga manufactured or licenced Kickstart ROM is present (for instance A1200/A3000/A4000)."
Bill McEwen states clearly that AmigaOS4 (with a USB dongle or ROM or whatever) won't be available for purchase separately (with, of course, the exception of versions for certain existing PPC accelerators, but that is completely beside the point since those versions of AOS4 can't be run legally on unlicensed boards either).
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 14 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Aug-2002 07:20 GMT
AmigaOS on Pegasos is unlicensed, therefor unsupported. Any problems with the combination? Bad luck.
BPlan should have gotten a license as they originally said they would.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 15 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Aug-2002 07:38 GMT
Im also kind of hesitant to buy a machine from an american company whos primary business is security and detection.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 16 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Lamer on 18-Aug-2002 07:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
I'm hesitant purchasing from a company that is affiliated with one of the worst reputations in the Amiga community - DCE.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 17 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Chis Roccati on 18-Aug-2002 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (amigammc):
> Another great example of parasitic minds. Good job mr. Bucks, you showed once again
> what you're worth
So, could you tell me why an hacked MacOS 9 running on the AmigaONE is a good idea and it's not an example of "parasitic minds", whereas an hacked AmigaOS4 running on the Pegasos is not?
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 18 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Timothy De Groote on 18-Aug-2002 08:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Chis Roccati):
hacked version of OS9 ?
It's simple MOL running on LinuxPPC on a POP motherboard running MacOS9.
In theory this is illegal, but i doubt Apple will crack down on ONE person who has a PowerMAC and is curious how it performs.
Anyways, the discussion is lame.
As you know Ben visited Bill Buck in Paris a year ago or so and Bill expressed interest in OS4, so did the Coyote Flux guys who then requested a Beta of Quake2 and which was provided and later on used to promote MOS as a gamesOS on an A4000/PPC System.
Bplan does NOT want OS4 because that would conflict with Ralph Shmidts EGO, it is THAT SIMPLE. Btw, at the show in NEUSS Hyperion had a meeting with Gerald Carda and Titan and other developers, because Hyperion WANTED new hardware.
I don't care what the MOS people say, they KNOW they are wrong but just want to continue with flaming OS4 and it's supporters. Well i don't NEED you guys.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 19 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 18-Aug-2002 08:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Frodon):
Sorry Frodon but you have fallen into the trap that Buck has fallen
into trying to justify this vocal political campaign that he has just
formally embarked apon.
* If you want to buy hardware branded as an Amiga then it has to come
shipped with AmigaOS4.0 ( and be certified ).
* If you want to buy a PPC motherboard from a company that also sells
a PPC based Amiga AND NOT use AmigaOS then it cannot be called an
Amiga and must not be capable of running AmigaOS ( lack of dongle ).
* Knowing the fiscal status of a business partner is business as
usual.
* Licensing and certification is cheap or free ( depending on who you
believe )
* There is nothing wrong with security and copyright protection Im
sure if others on this thread wrote and sold software they would want
it as much as Amiga Inc.
* Sure it will be cracked eventually but average Joe on the Street
will not get access to the cracked copies easily or be capable of
cracking it.
* If you want an Amiga future you gotta support AmigaOS.
As Corpse sayes, nothing to cry about - well it is for anyone who
wants to leverage the Amiga brand without actually selling Amigas and
using this as a platform to attack politically another company. As
much as some might like to deny that they are leveraging the Amiga
brand to sell their own kit and operating systems the facts ( well
documented on here over the last 12 months ) speak for themselves.
Its pretty clear and theres nothing really sinister about the Amiga
deal for licensing, companies that are so verbal in attacking it in
public without substantive evidence to the contrary need to take
a rain check and think maybe their business motive is overrunning
their business acumen.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 20 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 18-Aug-2002 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (DaveW):
Oh and anyone who buys a Pegasos of the back of "marketing" that it
will undoubtably have a cracked version of OS4 on it eventually is no
loss to the userbase.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 21 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 18-Aug-2002 09:04 GMT
...and no it doesnt matter, because as far as an Amiga market is
concerned pegasos is being sidelined by the political decisions
of the companies involved.
As fleecy said in response to Bill in the email that Bill posted in
public on ANN, "Linux is a hard sell" ( which you might as well go
x86 on ). Ability to run an Amiga-a-like OS and able to run archaic
OS3.9 apps is not going to be enough.
Does anyone really think that those wanting to continue on with the
Amiga who are going to buy a board with a replaceable CPU ( with
modules that who knows how much they will cost or when they will
appear - any other PicassoIV owners out there? ) that might, one day,
run a cracked version of AOS4 are going to be great significant
numbers?
No.
I reckon the A1 and upgrade scheme is going to be much more attactive
with AOS4.0.
Sure, there might be other markets than the Amiga market where Pegasos
and Thendic might do well. Go get them.
On the other hand, does anyone seriously believe that the Amiga
userbase will do anything but stay in the same numbers in 2003?
The Amiga market might not be a great loss to Thendic, but having
to run cracked copies of AOS4 on a Pegasos wont be a great loss
to the Amiga market.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 22 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by .john on 18-Aug-2002 09:09 GMT
Oh my, I should have posted that here (instead I posted it as comment to the
comment, foo bar):
@bill:
@john
If AmigaOS4.0 is fully finished and running natively on a PPC we will be
happy for Hyperion and Amiga Inc. Undoubtedly, in this community there
will be more than one person who will copy a legally obtained copy of
the operating system onto the Pegasos. How will Amiga Inc. stop this? We
cannot control this and neither can they. If AmigaOS4.0 becomes what it
is claimed to be - great! We will sell a few more Pegasos machines.
Thanks Hyperion! We wish them our best. We have absolutely nothing
against this effort.
Oh, bummer. This is not a professional solution, YOU as a proffesional
should be able to advertise. To advertise the Pegasos with :
"Theoretically you might be able to run pirtated copies of OS4 on it."
is very poor attitude (for a professional). Of course, I might have
misunderstood you completly.
@all
Please check out www.morphos-news for our latest post there in the
associated comments section for a discussion on the G3 vs. G4 issues (I
think it is Post #8). Even very code intensive fast twitch games are
running fine on the G3 Pegasos. This is an adequate machine for 990f the
market. The G4 is a great thing, but do not be deceived by clock speed.
The G3s are also fine. For example, there is NOTHING in the Linux GUI
that takes advantage of AltiVec. The speed of the Motorola G4s is nice,
but AltiVec does nothing unless you are running Mac OS X (which is
written for AltiVec) or single precision, 32-bit HPC code.
Already the G3 is a very poor performer these days. I am not interested
in games at all...I play my games in Windows with a fast PC.
I am talking about those things which are 'in' right now and give a lot
of fun: DivX5 encoding. Video-Effects with realtime-preview. Digital8
cams are cheap these days. So are Firewire cards. If you think I can go
anywhere with a single G3/0.6GHz please tell me. I am not talking about
family-album-style or 320x280 reso here. I am talking about semi-prof,
high-level-amateur. Same goes for any rendering. There is never enough
power for these tasks.
Check this out:
Rumors (?) hit the street, Apple might go x86 within the next years.
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1393
Facts get reported, that the latest Apple machines are *slower* than the
last generation. Yes, I am talking about those new beasts with DDR-RAM.
I know it is not the CPU, in that case, but some misconception over at
Apple. But they should have known this. Why did it happen ? Not good for
PPC platform.
Then, there has been some SPEC results reported on OSNews.com,
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=769
which were taken at over at
Heise.de:
http://www.heise.de/ct/english/02/05/182/
Dual G4 gets beaten completly by dual Athlon and single P4 in one of
Apples most important markets: digital video editing.
Story link: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1401
Direct link: http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/07_jul/features/cw_macvspc2.htm
While it might well be, that clockspeeds are not all these x86 CPUs have
new architectures as well. Maybe no Altivec (something as you said
rarely used, but well pointedly used in Linux audio- and video-projects
as well as by major companies, developing professional software) support
on x86 but other features, the PPC does not have.
So all in all I do not care, if there is no compiler available, that
utilizes G4 to its full potential.
I also do not care, that some of these benchmarks might have happened by
using code, that was well optimized for x86 but not for G4.
Why should I ? I pay the price. And I certainly will not pay the price
for a Pegasos just in order to run an illegal copy of AmigaOS4.x. If I
could consider the Pegasos an official Amiga licensee, this would be
another story. So I will look out for other options, maybe Shark, but I
have to see how well this one performs and if, yes, if it will be
possible to put that PCI card into a PC. Otherwise no AmigaOS4 for me.
Heck, maybe one day, if someone wrote an emulator for a dual G4 on a
P4/3.2GHz, or such, lol.
And for Linux it is better to go x86 anyway. Just in order to run some
code, that is proprietary and not available as source. This usually is
x86 native, isn't it ?!
So, all in all I might buy a Pegasos with a single G3/600MHz, that only
runs MorphOS software or plain, straight Linux ports. I pay approx. EUR
600 while for less than this money I will get a P4/2.33GHz and a mobo
with DDR-RAM support and 533MHz FSB that beats the Pegasos to pieces.
I feel a bit depressed myself. I had big hopes for the Pegaos. It just
came about too late. Much too late. And without dual G4. This would have
been the only reason for me to go Pegasos, to have a SMP machine, that
does not require active cooling. Did you know, that the P4 is even quite
sophisticated, at least upto 2GHz, with regards to power usage and thus
very well coolable in a manner, that you won't hear too much of a fan ?
I even had a dream to get a Pegasos with dual G4 and fill up the PCI
slots with DCE's long announced "G4 MicroServer" to hopefully build a
super-number-cruncher in my home. Now I will try to do it different.
I'll have to see.
.john
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 23 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 18-Aug-2002 09:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (amigammc):
So let's see... ASUS, ABit, Epox etc. who are selling MB's without Windows are just a bunch of blood-sucking parasites...
Boy you're lame...
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 24 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Aug-2002 10:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Mike Veroukis):
Your conspiracy theories make me sick... While you know nothing about each of the sides and their intentions.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 25 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Aug-2002 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Lamer):
1) You know nothing about DCE.
2) Pegasos isn't DCE's, isn't produced by DCE people and isn't repaired by
DCE. It is produced by Gerald Carda and Thomas Knaebel in their ex-production
line now located in DCE's factory.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 26 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Aug-2002 10:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Timothy De Groote):
As you know Ben visited Bill Buck in Paris a year ago or so and Bill expressed interest in OS4, so did the Coyote Flux guys who then requested a Beta of Quake2 and which was provided and later on used to promote MOS as a gamesOS on an A4000/PPC System.
--
Tim, it was running under AmigaOS in that system, not under MorphOS.
If they had to show Q2 under MorphOS they would use their own portS.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 27 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 18-Aug-2002 11:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Seehund):
Seehund typed:
> Any instances of AmigaOS running on "unlicensed" hardware
> unfortunately have to be w4r3zed by definition - it's only
> to be sold together with "licensed" hardware. AI couldn't
That is an improper use of the license by the user but I don't know if you could call it "warez" if they bought the product. It's hard to keep up with the official line on non-OEM version of this promised 4.0. I know Amiga Inc. said it would only be bundled with this and that but IIRC Hyperion keeps talking about a version for the people with existing classic Amigas with PPC acelerators.
At any rate this doesn't matter to the MorphOSians and Pegasos customers because you don't need this promised 4.0, or 3.9 or 3.5 or anything else. So who cares?
> demand any money from any hardware vendor though. How could they? "People
> are running illegal copies of our OS on hardware sold by you. Pay up!" Heh.
Yeah really, this is an issue that they have little control over. I think its an overstated insignificant issue, though I understand concerns over piracy.
In my personal opinion this whole "stop piracy with the dongle" thing is just a smokescreen. The OEM nonsense was a pressure tactic to force Thendic-France to the negotiating table. Also in my opinion the tactic was stupid, and has already failed.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 28 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 18-Aug-2002 11:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (.john):
"Rumors (?) hit the street, Apple might go x86 within the next years. "
Those "rumours" have been totally debunked many times over now. It was an over-enthusiastic journo completely misinterpreting a very simple throwaway line Jobbs used about "it's nice to have options". the journo immediately assumed this means Apple were going full-on x86 in the next year or two. Jobbs simply meant it as a dig at Mot for not increasing the performance of the G4 as much as they shoudl have done (let us not forget IBM also make the PPC and Apple would not be against moving to IBM PPC chips in the future if they turn out to be more powerful in later generations - "it's nice to have options").
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 29 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by José on 18-Aug-2002 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Mekanix):
"...So let's see... ASUS, ABit, Epox etc. who are selling MB's without Windows are just a bunch of blood-sucking parasites..."
The Windows market is not gonna be splitted by that, and put in risk. Tal about predation and death to both.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 30 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Aug-2002 14:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Mike Veroukis):
That's pretty much what Bill B. said
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 31 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Aug-2002 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Marcus Sundman):
>Bill McEwen states clearly that AmigaOS4 (with a USB dongle or ROM or
>whatever) won't be available for purchase separately (with, of course, the
>exception of versions for certain existing PPC accelerators,
To that I was referring
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 32 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Aug-2002 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Chis Roccati):
If you're half as smart as I think you are you can answer that question yourself. If you can't, well, I probably overrated you
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 33 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Aug-2002 14:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Mekanix):
And you are plainly stupid then, since you cannot even compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. The 386 platform wasn't designed to run only Windows, and anyone can buy *legally* a motherboard to other an OS other than Windows. Try opening your mind before opening your mouth
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 34 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Aug-2002 14:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
That's not a conspiracy theory, that's exactly what Bill Buck said in its post.
You know, I gotta admit that every time he posts something I rejoice, because he keeps stabbing himself and people can see him for what he really is. If you people want to succeed you really need to choose a different god for yourselves
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 35 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 18-Aug-2002 14:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Conspiracy theory? Let's take a read here....
>If AmigaOS4.0 becomes what it
>is claimed to be - great! We will sell a few more Pegasos machines.
>Thanks Hyperion! We wish them our best. We have absolutely nothing
>against this effort.
Thanks Hyperion? Thanks for what? If Hyperion never makes an official OS4 for Pegasos, what is he thanking them for? He should have said, "Thanks suckers" or even more appropriatly, "thanks crackers", because only they will make OS4 run on the Pegasos. And of course they know they will benefit from this as they will sell more machines. So of course they don't care about OS4 piracy and it makes little sense for bPlan to help Hyperion since they've placed their bets on MorphOS. Face it, it's a split community and everyone is looking after their own interests. There's no consipacy theory, it's as clear as glass what's going on here.
- Mike
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 36 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 18-Aug-2002 14:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (amigammc):
> And you are plainly stupid then, since you cannot
> even compare apples with apples and oranges with
> oranges. The 386 platform wasn't designed to run only
> Windows, and anyone can buy *legally* a motherboard
> to other an OS other than Windows. Try opening your
> mind before opening your mouth
*KAPOW*... there went my logic circuit...
Can you please tell me, with my stupid mind, how the above statement *doesn't* apply to any PPC-MB? Because *this*:
"The PPC platform wasn't designed to run only
AmigaOS, and anyone can buy *legally* a motherboard
to other an OS other than AmigaOS."
... makes perfect sense to me... but I'm to stupid to see that it's a complete different ballgame....
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 37 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Timothy De Groote on 18-Aug-2002 15:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Ofcourse it was our version, but when you had a look at the picture it did NOT mention that, it just stated that MOS would be ideal to play games and the showed a picture of Quake2 running on an Amiga4000.
Well, if the MOS crew has an own version, hi Dr Olsen btw, i assume they will also port the 30 mods that are available for Quake ? Btw, i wonder if it uses our miniGL :)
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 38 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Raquel and Bill on 18-Aug-2002 15:39 GMT
@Lamer
We are not sure you have ever had the chance to visit DCE or sit down and talk to Thomas Dillert, the owner. Raquel and I visited DCE a couple of weeks ago and found Thomas and his company in good shape. The Pegasos production line looks good and his facility is well organized and clean. Aside from Thendic-France/bplan, DCE is doing the same kind of work for Philips and Kyrocera. These are two well-known and successful companies. Thomas has a good organization. It is too bad the difficulties of the past are so often exaggerated and continue until today.
Just to show you how much this matter interests us, we requested on an ANN thread a couple of months ago information and proof from anyone who had had problems with DCE. We had a total of two responses -- one positive and one negative. So much for the “bad reputation…”
Anyway, lets take that a step farther…
If anyone has proof that DCE has improperly accepted or not-returned money or boards for warranty or for whatever other reason because there was a problem with the manufacturing of the board (and not because it was intentionally over clocked, etc.), Thendic-France will rebate the full amount against a Pegasos computer.
We have confidence in DCE and we have confidence in the ability of bplan to organize the production and work with DCE in the future.
@Timothy
We have absolutely nothing against AmigaOS4.0 and Ralph Schmidt today does not either. For at least, the recent past, no official member of the MorphOS team or any Betatester has “flamed” OS4.0 and will not going forward. It is too bad all the different personalities could not work together. You all should note that Ben Herman has stopped making inaccurate and inappropriate statements about MorphOS. We appreciate this very much. Better to let both groups go forward as they will.
@john
Thank you for your email (in both threads). We really appreciate this kind of detailed and thoughtful commentary. Just a couple of things… what is unprofessional about stating the obvious? It is a problem and we have brought attention to the issue frequently. We are certainly not advocating the act, but how can we stop this? We will not try to restrict our Pegasos customers from doing what they want to do with the hardware they have purchased. We all have to admit that the technically oriented community following these boards is very prone to do whatever they want to do with their computers. What would you recommend?
Yes, the applications you describe make you part of the other1% of the computer users referenced. Give us more time to think about your comments and references. If you want to add other issues more specific, please email us directly.
@all
As far as we are concerned there are absolutely no legal problems with MorphOS. You will see that there will not be either. MorphOS is 100% the inspiration and creation of Ralph Schmidt and the MorphOS Development Team. There is too much conjecture and FUD here from people that have no idea what they are talking about.
Finally and probably not for the last time, we are NOT interested in the “amiga” brand. We are interested in applications that run in an amiga environment and we are interested in developers familiar with this environment.
We thank you for your Betatester orders and we thank you for your continued support. In spite of the best efforts of a very vocal minority often seen here, we continue to receive your supportive emails and your expressions of interest.
Sincerely,
R&B
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 39 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 18-Aug-2002 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Raquel and Bill):
"Finally and probably not for the last time, we are NOT interested in the 'amiga' brand. We are interested in applications that run in an amiga environment and we are interested in developers familiar with this environment."
Oh please - the number of developers actively supporting anything commercially viable is an absolute joke. The bottom line for Thendic is hardware sales and the remaining members of the Amiga community are an easy sell. Countless times people on this site have encouraged Thendic and bPlan to OEM OS4 so that they could purchase a Pegasos and run a sanctioned copy of the operating system in good conscience. But apart from obviously not wanting to detract from MorphOS, I'm sure there is a sick sense of satisfaction to be gained if piracy prevails. You don't want to pay for or support the brand, you just want to cannibalize it.
This has nothing to do with the Amiga or its community, it's all juvenile politics.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 40 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 18-Aug-2002 16:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (anonymous):
Eh?
Why would thendic or bplan mind if os4 runs on thier machine as it would lead to more hardware sales?
Of course no hardware manufacturer would want to pay for the privlidge of having an os run on the hardware which is what amiga inc wants. hence the reasons for the posting. It's pretty clear.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 41 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 18-Aug-2002 16:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (cheesegrate):
getting the Bplan certified is free so NO they dont have to pay.
& it has been said many times but you choose to ignore the fact & where does Amiga.inc say there will be a fee to get a mobo cert.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 42 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 18-Aug-2002 16:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Alkemyst):
Do you believe anything McBill says ?
NOTHING is free !
The need to setup an distrobution for Pegasos/OS4-bundle aside
the "normal" Pegasos, and that means extra costs, maybe not
much, but still more than it seems to worth for them.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 43 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Aug-2002 16:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Timothy De Groote):
Tim, that p[ic with that comment were from the crew of the group that visited Thendic, not from Thendic themselves. Thendic corrected this later confirming
that it was Steffen/HJ's port running under AmigaOS.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 44 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Aug-2002 16:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (anonymous):
So what should they do? Not release the machine to ensure that nobody hacks OS4
to run on the machine? Tweak the BIOS so that OS4 doesn't run? Oh come on...
Welcome to planet earth...
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 45 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Aug-2002 16:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Kronos):
what total crap.
your the sort of guy who would moan cos they say the item is free but you have to.
pay for P&P
& how many shops have you gone into that sell only one make & one product & one colour cos anything else will add cost.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 46 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 18-Aug-2002 17:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Kronos):
Kronos .. please go and get drunk or something , your constant Bad amiga Inc this bad amiga Inc that is boring at most.
Fact is we have two strong PPC Amiga OS 3.x comptiable Operating System projects and the function or feature of either isn't driving the debate , its high emotions , time to step back and reflect no doubt.
The whole X86 and POP argument is out of the scope of the amiga arena, we haven't had any new machines in alot of years , there frankly isn't room for choice , buy an amigaOne or Pegasos , run AmigaOS or MorphOs on it simple as that , when it boils down to it they'll both run 3.x apps and that really all we've got.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 47 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 18-Aug-2002 18:55 GMT
Bla bla bla.....this is really unbelievable......
Why would someone care about a "cracked AmigaOS4 running on a Pegasos". You guys should be worried about a cracked amigaOS4. AmigaOS4 costs about the same as getting really drunk in a club. So what kind of lamer are you when you want to run a cracked version instead of buying it.
The amiga market is very small, now save what is left of it, otherwise you'll be running the same cracked version for the rest of your life.
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 48 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 18-Aug-2002 18:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (cOrpse):
Come on c0rpse, your constant cheering for and apologizing for Amino and HYPErion is just as boring. Some how you have failed to see the light of the entire situation that your killing off what little financial support from the community by continuing your current attacks. But it's OK, the few that curse both sides of this ugly and dieing PPC market rift may wind up in one or both alternative OSs that run on x86.
Yup, no more having to witness a company squirm for $, no more having to listen to a company manipulate it's client's minds, no more wondering if I'm going to read about the OS company going tits up will be a Godsend.
Dammy
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 49 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 18-Aug-2002 19:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Amifan):
Yes, worrying about a crack HYPEOS4 is silly. I have yet to see one good reason why anyone would even bother to crack HYPEOS4 to run in on a Peg'. Can you name one killer function or app on HYPEOS4 that makes it so superior to MOS (or Linux for that matter)?
Dammy
Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 50 of 165ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 18-Aug-2002 19:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (cheesegrate):
Think about it for a nanosecond. If licensed copies of OS4 cannot be purchased to run on the Pegagos where would people get them from?
The only way you can hope to recoup costs and continue with development is to OEM the software. Do you honestly think it will sit well with Thendic/bPlan if illegal copies of MorphOS are running on the AmigaOne?
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