| [News] Thendic France comment on OS4.0 | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 17-Aug-2002 19:55 GMT by cheesegrate | 165 comments
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On an ANN thread Bill and Raquel comment on their attitude towareds AmigaOS4 and it's appearance on the pegasos.
"If AmigaOS4.0 is fully finished and running natively on a
PPC we will be happy for Hyperion and Amiga Inc. Undoubtedly, in this community
there will be more than one person who will copy a legally obtained copy
of the operating system onto the Pegasos. How will Amiga Inc. stop this?
We cannot control this and neither can they. If AmigaOS4.0 becomes what
it is claimed to be – great! We will sell a few more Pegasos machines.
Thanks Hyperion! We wish them our best. We have absolutely nothing against
this effort."
Personally I think that no hardware developers who don't licence the amiga
name will pay money for certification to get os4 running on their boards.
However because the pegasos and the amiga one share the same northbridge
and BIOS (atm), it should not be difficult for a developer to port os4 across
to the pegasos. The question is; Will Hyperion and Amiga Inc allow this without
wanting money from Bplan/Thendic France? And does it matter?
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 51 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by anonymous on 18-Aug-2002 19:19 GMT | In reply to Comment 42 (Kronos):
Cost has nothing to do with it -- that's the whole point. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 52 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by anonymous on 18-Aug-2002 19:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 44 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Welcome to the world of business.
No one is claiming that Thendic should do anything. But they've clearly indicated that they are marketing their hardware to the Amiga community, but unwilling to contribute to it. The fact that people have asked that the Pegasos be certified as a valid platform for running OS4 benefits Thendic.
Capice? |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 53 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by cOrpse on 18-Aug-2002 20:08 GMT | In reply to Comment 48 (dammy):
"Come on c0rpse, your constant cheering for and apologizing for Amino and HYPErion is just as boring."
Hows anyone meant to take you seriously with childish remarks like that.
"Some how you have failed to see the light of the entire situation that your killing off what little financial support from the community by continuing your current attacks."
Current attacks ? killing off financial support ? Wow i've done all that and still got no grey hairs , lucky me :D
"But it's OK, the few that curse both sides of this ugly and dieing PPC market rift may wind up in one or both alternative OSs that run on x86.
Yup, no more having to witness a company squirm for $, no more having to listen to a company manipulate it's client's minds, no more wondering if I'm going to read about the OS company going tits up will be a Godsend."
You think a little too much about this , you may want to find a hobby.
Daniel |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 54 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Daniel Miller on 18-Aug-2002 21:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 38 (Raquel and Bill):
R&B typed:
> We have absolutely nothing against AmigaOS4.0 and Ralph Schmidt today
He is still alive then? ;) It has been a while!
> does not either. For at least, the recent past, no official member of
> the MorphOS team or any Betatester has “flamed” OS4.0 and will not
> going forward. It is too bad all the different personalities could
> not work together. You all should note that Ben Herman has stopped
> making inaccurate and inappropriate statements about MorphOS.
You are correct at least that his name does not appear on such statements.
> We appreciate this very much. Better to let both groups go forward
> as they will.
I agree with this, and will make an effort not to criticize, even sometimes it is hard to resist firing back at a person making some horrendous insult or allegation.
May I also add that everyone should avoid responding to anonymous flamers. Just ignore them, people! |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 55 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Daniel Miller on 18-Aug-2002 21:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (Mike Veroukis):
Mike Veroukis typed:
> Of course the pegasos hardware makers don't care about AmigaOS4
> licensing since they expect the cracker community to do their
> dirty work for them. Officially AmigaOS won't run on the
> Pegasos but they know people will be getting it cracked off the
> streets.
You know, for almost a year I have been listening to people involved with the Pegasos, and chatted with them in public chats, and kept up with the MorphOSians and *nobody* has ever expressed the sentiment and expectation you refer to. They are just not interested. It is real easy for you to make cynical charges like that, but it just does not match reality.
People who want "OS 4.0" so bad will buy a friggin' Eyetech machine to run it on. It's not even a question. People who buy the Pegasos will have MorphOS which is almost universally seen as extremely efficient and functional. Even the most rabid MorphOS haters for marketing or political reasons or whatever admit this. And MorphOS gets more current development. People aren't going to sacrifice that to run some cracked thing. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 56 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkemyst on 19-Aug-2002 00:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 55 (Daniel Miller):
yes your right about ppl wanting to run Aos4 sayimg that it would be nice to have it run on the Bplan.
many were thinking wich to get, Aone or bplan & alot of us said we will wait & see when they cvome to market.
but now that it looks like the Bplan will nt get Aos4 the ppl who realy just want Aos4
have are now saying well even tho the Bplan mobo is nice its a no contender now as it will not run AOS4.
so the MOS ppl should really stop wasting there time with Bplan is mobo is better than Aone as if they will run MOS & AOS4 on both so choose the better mobo, as now the OS is the factor not the mobo.
dont waste your time telling a person who wants AOS4 that the Bplan is better for them as it will not run AOS4.
likerwise teeling a MOS person that the Aone is better as it will not run MOS. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 57 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 19-Aug-2002 01:07 GMT | | Geesh, What a lame bunch of ignorant lusers the Amiga "Community" has become. You have to warp and twist everything to you view point and if you don't understand what is being said it is labled as being wrong or evil. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 58 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 05:45 GMT | Perhaps you should have taken my points seriously and brushed up on your PR
training.
You clearly are interested in using the "Amiga brand" for your own purposes, no
one is saying that you want to *own* the Amiga brand. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 59 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 05:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 42 (Kronos):
> Do you believe anything McBill says
Does anyone believe everything that anyone sayes who has a commercial self
interest in this? |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 60 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 06:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 38 (Raquel and Bill):
> It is too bad the difficulties of the past are so often exaggerated and continue until today.
Well, too bad when they dont suit your business interest eh? Havent seen you defending the
exaggerations made against Amiga Inc.
> Just to show you how much this matter interests us, we requested on an ANN thread a couple of months ago information
> and proof from anyone who had had problems with DCE. We had a total of two responses -- one positive and one negative.
> So much for the "bad reputation…"
Oh well some of us didnt spot it and besides, I would not place any evidence in the hands
of a non independent arbiter - photocopies maybe. Besides, the reputation was not
tarnished through these two points alone. Besides it was PhaseV who seem to come in
for the most allegations in this area.
> Anyway, lets take that a step farther…
Yes lets.
> If anyone has proof that DCE has improperly accepted or not-returned money or boards for warranty or for whatever other reason because there was a
> problem with the manufacturing of the board (and not because it was intentionally over clocked, etc.), Thendic-France will rebate the full amount
> against a Pegasos computer.
Whilst I admire the guesture ( indicating that you either are fully confident that
there has never been a problem or that you want to lock people that have this problem
into a product that hasnt been released ) its hardly attractive. People have to part
with more money in order to get satisfaction. No, unless the problem that people have
is with a bankrupt then if they have evidence to hand I would suggest they get together
and prosecute through the EU legal system.
> We have absolutely nothing against AmigaOS4.0 and Ralph Schmidt today does not either. For at least, the recent past, no official member of the
> MorphOS team or any Betatester has "flamed" OS4.0 and will not going forward. It is too bad all the different personalities could not work
> together.
Well at least they havent done it themselves ( through proxy? ) or put their names to it in a traceable fashion ;-) In fact
I think you would find it very hard to prove this assertion. You would need to go through
ANN, Amiga.org, IRC channel logs etc and talk to the ISPs to find out who was using
a given address at any given point. On balance, I suspect it would be hard for many
to resist the temptation to put the knife in on the competition - if they have a public
platform eh? ;-)
> You all should note that Ben Herman has stopped making inaccurate and inappropriate statements about MorphOS. We appreciate this very
> much. Better to let both groups go forward as they will.
He has stopped making statements. Whether they were inaccurate is yet to be seen. Innapropriate? Well
yes but not as innapropriate as posting confidential business correspondance in a misguided
attempt to win the hearts and minds...
> Thank you for your email (in both threads). We really appreciate this kind of detailed and thoughtful commentary. Just a couple of things… what is
> unprofessional about stating the obvious?
Because you should *NOT* be seen to encourage piracy through ANY remarks. To be seen to say that you
dont mind that pirates might buy Pegasos equipment from you is a matter for concern. You should
clear this matter up ASAP. Those that supply CD-writing equipment would not be caught in
public saying they dont mind if they are used to duplicate copyrighted information.
>It is a problem and we have brought attention to the issue frequently.
Well only bring attention to it where appropriate. How would YOU beat piracy? Do
you think that stopping anti-piracy measures would do that? Hmmm? Giving away the software?
> We are certainly not advocating the act, but how can we stop this?
Well you can at least discourage it. If you can do naught but criticise those
in public that are trying to stop it through technical means you should do so
with an alternative.
> We will not try to restrict our Pegasos customers from doing what they want to do with the hardware they have purchased.
Well who-pee-doo
> We all have to admit that the technically oriented community following these boards is very prone to do whatever they want to do with their
> computers. What would you recommend?
No, what would YOU recommend seeings you are making this very public stance on it.
> As far as we are concerned there are absolutely no legal problems with MorphOS. You will see that there will not be either.
Good. But thats not for you to decide. If you went ahead thinking there were legal problems
you would only damage your business. Therefore this is obvious.
> MorphOS is 100% the inspiration and creation of Ralph Schmidt and the MorphOS Development Team. There is too much conjecture and FUD here from
> people that have no idea what they are talking about.
LOL! Come on, make the allegation and point to specific posts. I know of a few threads that
have been absolute rubbish in this vein but the point most make is: Until the matter is settled
in court or Amiga Inc drop the allegations it is insufficient to SAY it is all FUD. Plenty of examples
of how people fall into the trap of reverse engineering have been put up here with
examples of how it could be done. Ben Hermans when he wasnt being innapropriate put forward
the legalities of the situation.
No, its all politics and you are party to this political game. This whole thing
is a bonfire of the vanities. Get over it, release some products and hire a press officer
person with qualification. Oh and also a good guesture would be to pay for the advertising
you get on ANN through a banner advert eh? |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 61 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 06:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 42 (Kronos):
"The need to setup an distrobution for Pegasos/OS4-bundle aside
the "normal" Pegasos, and that means extra costs, maybe not
much, but still more than it seems to worth for them."
What extra distribution? Putting it on a different shelf? When a package
is shipped the dongle and the OS CDs/manuals are put in with it too?
If the Amiga community and brand is worth so little to them why do they expend
so much effort on trying to undermine Amiga Incs licensing scheme with very
thinly veiled public attacks and campaigns from the minions they manage to brainwash
with half truths?
No. There is a real agenda there that we can only speculate about. My speculation
is that they want people to buy the Pegasos as an Amiga and use MorphOS as the "next gen
Amiga" operating system because it boots first. Else why the TV show? Why the spiel for over a year about
how it *is* the next generation Amiga in all but name? Why leverage the brand in such
a way? Why risk creating two entirely incompatible PPC platforms under the name
"Amiga"?
To me its transparent and pathetic and Im glad Im not sticking around for much longer
( just sufficient to point by point show Bill and Raquel how inane their free advertising is ). |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 62 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Aug-2002 09:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 60 (DaveW):
>You all should note that Ben Herman has stopped making inaccurate and >inappropriate statements about MorphOS. We appreciate this very much. Better to >let both groups go forward as they will.
Well, it's a well known fact that these statements were not made by me but a "drunken employee" who snuck into the Hyperion office repeatedly.
No wait ... that didn't happen to us.
Seriously now, I have put forward my legal objections repeatedly citing applicable EU and German law and case-law both here and in private to mister Buck who (according to himself at least) has access to top-lawyers.
To this date, we have not received any reply with substantive legal arguments by a qualified person (ie a lawyer) to convince me of the fallacy of our legal reasoning.
I fail to see the point to continue this debate in public now that I've made our case but I certainly don't retract any of those statements as long as MorphOS is marketed with AmigaOS compatibility and with reference to AmigaOS.
Actions such as hijacking the "AmigaOne" keyword on Google with a paid advertisement (in violation of Google's own terms of use and EU and international intellectual and industrial property law) have convinced me that nothing short of a court order will put a stop to these activities. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 63 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 19-Aug-2002 09:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 60 (DaveW):
Because you should *NOT* be seen to encourage piracy through ANY remarks. To be seen to say that you
--
Well, I don't think you know what legally obtained means... |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 64 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 19-Aug-2002 09:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 62 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
;-)
Any comment on their hijacking of the name "Ben Hermans"?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=ben+hermans
btw. Is there any law against the unauthorized use of known person's name?
IMO, if they want to tarket "other markets", they would succeed better by choosing Anna Kournikova, Jenna Jameson or perhaps Jill Kelly.... ;-) |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 65 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 19-Aug-2002 09:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 62 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben, please continue the legal allegations in private with the bplan/thendic
people, it isn't too proffesional to do it in public. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 66 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 19-Aug-2002 10:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 65 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
*lol* You want him to shut up so you(r side) can continue to post exactly what you say is unprofessional? Hehehe. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 67 of 165 | ANN.lu |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 68 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by z5 on 19-Aug-2002 10:27 GMT | Just one question (which i ask seriously):
who was responsible for the fact that when you search for AmigaOne in google, the first link is Pegasos? Is this anybody from Pegasos/Morphos team who has done this? |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 69 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 19-Aug-2002 10:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 68 (z5):
Pergasos/MorphOS group admitted doing this without noting who exactly got the great idea (and without looking up the word illegal). Somewhere in the last several threads. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 70 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 19-Aug-2002 10:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
Hummm... "reseller network and a development community for the Pegasos"
But isn't that what also Be wanted from us?
No thanks, I'm not going to switch OS as long as the real thing is trembling as a sign of being alive! |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 71 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 19-Aug-2002 10:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 66 (Anonymous):
I didn't see Bill Buck saying that OS4 is illegal. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 72 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 19-Aug-2002 10:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 71 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Well, it isnt. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 73 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Darrin B on 19-Aug-2002 10:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
The funny thing is re hijacking DevCommunity, that Amino tried the same by buying the Amiga brand. Sad. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 74 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 10:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 63 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"Well, I don't think you know what legally obtained means..."
LOL!!! Alkis what on earth are you talking about? I have never pirated software
I have always paid for software and what on earth does this have to do with anything
I have said? |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 75 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by OMG on 19-Aug-2002 10:53 GMT | >You suck, dumbnut, blah blah, I am great, blah.
>Besides, blah blah blah blah blah. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 76 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 10:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 62 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben, your followup makes it look like I posted the rabid drivel quoted:
">You all should note that Ben Herman has stopped making inaccurate and >inappropriate statements about MorphOS. We appreciate this very much. Better to >let both groups go forward as they will. "
Just for the record of those reading through without clicking back through, I didnt.
Bill Buck *did*. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 77 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 19-Aug-2002 10:56 GMT | In reply to Comment 73 (Darrin B):
The funny thing is that Amino who the Amiga IP, is now AmigaInc. and at least one person is apparently too mentally challanged to take notice. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 78 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Aug-2002 11:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 76 (DaveW):
Yes ofcourse Dave.
I know that.
It's just that your post was the last to contain the quote by him. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 79 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ashke817 on 19-Aug-2002 11:48 GMT | Will I be able to get a version of MOS that runs on the A1? I want 'choice' in
what I run on the A1! :) |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 80 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 19-Aug-2002 12:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 62 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
If you believe that the Thendic-France adwords campaign is not acceptable according to Google's editorial rules then you should tell Google, not ANN. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 81 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 12:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 80 (Anonymous):
ROFLMAO!!!!
"Dont complain about the cafeteria food amongst yourself, constrain it to the
feedback forms in the cafeteria"
Or maybe, do both. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 82 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Aug-2002 12:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 65 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Alkis, I suggest you read the terms of use of Google.
I'm getting a bit tired of this constant whining of yours about "unprofessionalism" when people are registering paid advertisements on Google using my name as a keyword or using another company's trademark and tradename as a keyword.
I suggest you direct your complaints there as I'm sure you realise that this is a gross violation of several laws and Google's terms of use.
If "unprofessionalism" means that I can no longer post statements backed up by facts such as Google's terms of use, then I'm guilty as charged. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 83 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 12:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 78 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
No problem Ben.
Oh and good luck with OS4.0 sales. Despite me leaving the platform I still
think its the best hope any of the users now have for a viable future even
as a hobbyist only platform.
If its really good it might even change my mind. I only linger to irritate
Bill ;-) |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 84 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 19-Aug-2002 12:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 79 (Ashke817):
bplan=MorphOSteam
So I think MOS for A1 (competing platform, competing brand name, etc.) will not happen.
(except perhaps via piracy, but that would be unmoral at Amiga camp, right?!) |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 85 of 165 | ANN.lu |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 86 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 12:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 85 (amigammc):
How childish. Bad PR. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 87 of 165 | ANN.lu |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 88 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 19-Aug-2002 12:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 68 (z5):
It's advertising for Thendic, who would do that other than themselves? Sony? |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 89 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 19-Aug-2002 12:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 77 (Anonymous):
And your point is? |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 90 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Aug-2002 12:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 87 (amigammc):
Doubtlessly the work of more drunken employees at the Thendic office.
They seem to have a real drinking problem there. |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 91 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 19-Aug-2002 12:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 85 (amigammc):
fleecy moss ... |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 92 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 19-Aug-2002 12:39 GMT | In reply to Comment 83 (DaveW):
You're not going to leave the platform, Dave, or I'm gonna come down (I live up north so I assume you're down there ;-)) and beat you with a stick ;-)
Ok ok, you can leave it but only temporarily |
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| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 93 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amigammc on 19-Aug-2002 12:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 90 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Must have happened during OktoberFest ;-) |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 94 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 12:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 92 (amigammc):
LOL!
Im already sat here using KDevelop and wishing it was just like the HiSoft C++ IDE.
Im thinking what happens when I use OpenOffice, will I start wishing it was WW7 or
FinalWriter?
This is going to be hard. |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 95 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 12:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 90 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I could see MOS supporters making it point to www.morphos.de but thendic?!?
Well Google know who sponsored the link - will have invoice. I look forward
to the fireworks.
Ah damn. Last day on ANN. Ill miss it. |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 96 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by MIB on 19-Aug-2002 12:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 87 (amigammc):
Try Google with Dave Haynie... |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 97 of 165 | ANN.lu |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 98 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 19-Aug-2002 13:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 87 (amigammc):
I can't believe they're at it again... *sigh* |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 99 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 19-Aug-2002 13:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 98 (Samface):
Is Jay Miner a bridge too far for them? |
|
| Thendic France comment on OS4.0 : Comment 100 of 165 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by cOrpse on 19-Aug-2002 13:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 97 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Any proof to back up that statement ? |
|
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