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[News] Ohio Pegasos Demo PostponedANN.lu
Posted on 23-Aug-2002 23:19 GMT by Daniel Miller35 comments
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The Pegasos and MorphOS will not be demoed tomorrow at Computerfest in Ohio, but all the other great stuff will still be there. Logistical and technical difficulties have caused the postponement of the public Pegasos and MorphOS demonstration at the alternative computer convention Computerfest in Dayton, Ohio. This demonstration had been announced earlier in the week on amiga.org and ann.lu. One factor is that some materials that were to arrive by international carrier today have been delayed.

While the absence of Pegasos and MorphOS will disappoint many, there is still a lot of good alternative computer stuff that will be there, including all the great stuff arranged by Amitech-Dayton Amiga User Group which may be viewed at

http://www.computerfest.com/Amigafest-fall-2002.shtml.

The other dates on the Pegasos tour are not affected:

7-8 September, A-Expo in Tain l'Hermitage (France),
14 September, BETATESTER I in Frankfurt, Germany,
21-22 September, Pianeta 2002 in Empoli (Florence, Italy),
22 September, GGS-Data Show (Gothenburg, Sweden),
and 7-8 December, 2002. Eurogress, Aachen, Germany.

This list is not comprehensive and other dates and places will be announced.

Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 1 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by ian@home on 23-Aug-2002 22:27 GMT
Perhaps they got frightened by Amiga Inc`s threat of court action as of the 1st of Sept for MorphOS being developed using source from their IP.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 2 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 23-Aug-2002 23:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (ian@home):
Yeaaah, be sure.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 3 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Aug-2002 03:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
I guess we'll never know...
Bring on the Lawyers!
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 4 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph on 24-Aug-2002 06:51 GMT
Who cares?
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 5 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Aug-2002 08:46 GMT
I hope WOA-SE will be on that list soon (it fits into that gap nicely). Otherwise it looks like BPlan are snubbing UK users. It would be nice to actually see the pegasos and morphos working in the fleash.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 6 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 24-Aug-2002 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Ralph):
*MANY* people in here.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 7 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 24-Aug-2002 11:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
We already know.
Posted on MorphOS-news.de:
Note: Bill Buck informed us: "Actually, if the package arrives to Daniel Miller today he will still drive from Washington D.C. to Dayton, Ohio and still show the Pegasos on Sunday!
So...
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 8 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 24-Aug-2002 17:40 GMT
All I will say is ... What else is new?
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 9 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Jorna on 24-Aug-2002 18:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
MorphOs Party of two--right this way...
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 10 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 24-Aug-2002 19:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Sounds like a hell of a drive! yeesh!
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 11 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Mod3mski on 24-Aug-2002 23:42 GMT
wow, strange... I was waiting for an Amiga comeback at that show :D
c'mon, we're sick of these delays announced the day before...
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 12 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by createcoms on 25-Aug-2002 02:28 GMT
Why get disappointed ? It's not like MOS is anything to do with AMiGA in the first place.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 13 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Raquel and Bill on 25-Aug-2002 07:29 GMT
From www.morphos-news.de:
1/1 Ohio USA Pegasos Demo Postponed
Raquel and Bill (25-Aug-2002, 11:25:58) - [ Answer | Singleview ]
Unfortunately, the Fedex package did not make it to Daniel in time and for some reason after pick up on Thursday for international priority delivery it is still in Paris...:(
We will organize something in the USA shortly and promote this here.
Best regards,
Raquel and Bill
-------------------------
@ANN Daniel has willingly agreed to demonstrate the system closer to Washington DC and we will look for an opportunity this week for him to be able to do so.
R&B
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 14 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Aug-2002 10:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (createcoms):
>Why get disappointed ? It's not like MOS is anything to do with AMiGA in the
>first place.
Oh come on, now. It is fine to acknowledge that MorphOS is not an official Amiga product or an official Amiga successor, but to claim it has nothing to do with Amiga when...
a) it was made by famous Amiga community members;
b) it was originally intended to continue AmigaOS legacy when the parent company chose not to - the fact that the parent company later changed, and that they even later changed their minds again doesn't change this;
c) it runs existing AmigaOS software;
d) it has an Amiga compatible API;
e) it runs on existing Amigas as well as 3rd party hardware;
...is simply silly. Please argue points a-e or use them to somehow prove complete irrelevance to anything Amiga, if you disagree.
Please, enough with the excesses of the name cult already. MorphOS definitely has a lot to do with Amiga, although IT IS NOT an official Amiga obviously. That distinction is fine and obvious by the name of the product. It is MorphOS, an Amiga-like operating system made by Amigans for Amigans, it runs Amiga software and it also runs on Amigas.
It is simply not true to claim it has nothing to do with Amiga. Or, if you still disagree, I would love to hear your argumentation on the matter.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 15 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Kjell Breding on 25-Aug-2002 11:52 GMT
> 21-22 September, AmiGBG and GGS-Data Show (Gothenburg, Sweden)
This is not correct. The Pegasos Event in Gothenburg on Sunday the 22nd of September
is held by GGS-Data ONLY! That is a ONE DAY event. AmiGBG has NOTHING to do with
the Pegasos event.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 16 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by TheArrogantSarny on 25-Aug-2002 13:09 GMT
It amazes me just how incompetent all these companies seem to be.
Mr Optimist: "Heck, we'll show it at the show."
Mr YesMan: "Yeah, great idea!"
Mr Idiot: "Hey, let's postpone sending the package until a couple of days prior to the event."
All stinks of a convenient 'excuse' to me that just reflects how incompetent all these companies probably are.
Wonder if the package will be late next time ;-)
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 17 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Aug-2002 15:23 GMT
Sheesh.
Amateurs.
I wonder if they can't ship on time for their end users either.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 18 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Aug-2002 15:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Anonymous):
f) is illegal due to unlicence us of Amiga IP.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 19 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Aug-2002 15:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Anonymous):
g) by their own words are not targeting the Amiga Market.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 20 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Aug-2002 18:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Then why do we keep hearing about 'em?
I'm sick of it personally.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 21 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Aug-2002 18:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Wrong, by their own words the AmigaMarket is not their one and only market.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 22 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Aug-2002 19:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
> f) is illegal due to unlicence us of Amiga IP.
Wrong. It is legal until proven otherwise.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 23 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 25-Aug-2002 22:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Anonymous):
> a) it was made by famous Amiga community members;
I don't think the father of DEC's VMS has anything to do with Windows NT in terms of binary compatibility.
Celebrity doesn’t give its legitimacy.
> b) it was originally intended to continue AmigaOS legacy when the parent
> company chose not to -
That would an assertion on your part.
> the fact that the parent company later changed,
That would an assertion on your part.
> c) it runs existing AmigaOS software;
So does AmigaForever product.
> d) it has an Amiga compatible API;
On what level?
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 24 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Aug-2002 22:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Hammer):
> So does AmigaForever product.
AmigaForever is just UAE. It emulates an Amiga and runs AmigaOS on top of it.
In the beginning MorphOS used the Amiga hardware, emulated the 68k and runned
AmigaOS on top of the 68k emulation, while patching anything needed.
Later (and now) it replaces AmigaOS completely, with A/Box (it was called "Amiga Emulation" quite a while back). A/Box is 100% NATIVE PPC code.
> On what level?
Source compatability and binary compatability if you compile for 68k and not
use the MorphOS specific additions to the AmigaOS API.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 25 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 25-Aug-2002 22:11 GMT
> MorphOS definitely has a lot to do with Amiga, although IT IS NOT an
> official Amiga obviously. That distinction is fine and obvious by the name
> of the product.
That would be still tested at court, i.e. Spetember 1st 2002.
> it runs Amiga software and it also runs on Amigas.
Not without a 3rd party PPC hardware addon, which is no different to bunging on a x86 hardware addon.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 26 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Aug-2002 22:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Hammer):
Excuse me? Of course not without adding a PPC on your Amiga, it's a PPC OS.
It uses the Amiga hardware, so yes, it does run on Amigas. There's no point
against this.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 27 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Aug-2002 22:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Hammer):
> That would be still tested at court, i.e. Spetember 1st 2002.
Ok. Looking forward for that.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 28 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Aug-2002 06:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Hammer):
Please, let us look at my arguments in context. I was responding to the claim that "MorphOS has nothing to do with Amiga". Or more precisely:
"Why get disappointed ? It's not like MOS is anything to do with AMiGA in the first place."
>> a) it was made by famous Amiga community members;
>I don't think the father of DEC's VMS has anything to do with Windows NT in >terms of binary compatibility.
You can not possibly think these are similar situations? I just merely trying to list all points that establish a link between MorphOS and the Amiga. One of them is the strong community connection. After all, the Amiga community has been listed as one of the major reasons Amiga is still here - even by its parent company, no less. But very well, if you think a) is not a reason to think "MorphOS has nothing to do with Amiga" false we can forget it.
>Celebrity doesn’t give its legitimacy.
Legitimacy was never on trial in this thread until you brought it up. I was responding to the claim that "MorphOS has nothing to do with Amiga". It clearly does.
>> b) it was originally intended to continue AmigaOS legacy when the parent
>> company chose not to -
>That would an assertion on your part.
What part of it is an assertion on my part? I believe the original MorphOS announcement clearly states the intent to continue the AmigaOS by creating a new operating system. It is obvious that the MOS camp today has a lot of other plans as well (that is simply smart, as Amiga Inc. have done as well), but I think there is enough to believe MorphOS was started by Amigans to replace AmigaOS which was, then, going nowhere. Much like AROS, I might add.
As for the rest, perhaps I should have said: "the parent company publicly seemed to choose not to...". Because for all appearances, and I have followed both Gateway and the current owners intensely, they seemed to choose to pretty much forget about AmigaOS. They made all these speeches about the need to move on etc. I certainly wasn't privy to any insider knowledge, so I don't know what went on inside the companies but then, MorphOS people probably didn't either. It is the public intent that counts in my opinion.
MorphOS started when Gateway was still at the helm, I believe. They publicly had quite different plans than to continue AmigaOS. So did the current Amiga Inc. until 2001 (unless AmigaOS 3.9 would have sold X, which was commonly thought as completely unrealistic). I have no reason to not to believe MorphOS creators thought at the time they started that AmigaOS was going no where by the decision of the parent company.
But hey, if you object to my reasoning on that (and I was just trying to be complete in my argumentation, it is not necessary for my argument), lets drop the rest of the sentence as well and just leave the part I believe was stated in the original MorphOS announcement.
b) it was originally intended to continue AmigaOS legacy;
We can twist those words around as well if you like, but I believe the original MorphOS announcement made it clear where it was coming from (as does the people creating it, as well as the technical merits I list in c-e):
>> c) it runs existing AmigaOS software;
>So does AmigaForever product.
True. And Amiga Forever has a lot to do with Amiga. It is even an officially licensed product - which MorphOS is not, but that doesn't change the fact that both have a lot to do with Amiga. Even if you want to call them emulators, the claim "they have nothing to do with Amiga" is still not valid. They are _Amiga_ emulators. Even UAE has to do with Amiga. Amithlon is widely considered as something "Amiga". But I think the most important part is coming up and that differentiates MorphOS from common emulators.
>> d) it has an Amiga compatible API;
>On what level?
Well, as someone already stated here, on binary (68k) and source level. And I think this is the most important part (in addition to c and e which are important as well) of my argument that the statement "MorphOS has nothing to do with Amiga" is false. An operating system that in its core has an entire compatibility layer for another can not be said to not to have anything to do with the other.
That would be simply denying the obvious, which many arguments against MorphOS these days seem to be. I look forward to the day when we can have arguments on technical merits as to what is best for whom. Hopefully the products materialize soon so this can commence.
(e)
>> it runs Amiga software and it also runs on Amigas.
>Not without a 3rd party PPC hardware addon, which is no different to bunging >on a x86 hardware addon.
But I'm sure you wouldn't claim that an Amiga game requiring a PPC accelerator has nothing to do with Amiga? Or one that requires a 3D accelerator? Or a dongle? Of course it has everything to do with the Amiga, and MorphOS has a lot to do with Amiga as well.
>> MorphOS definitely has a lot to do with Amiga, although IT IS NOT an
>> official Amiga obviously. That distinction is fine and obvious by the name
>> of the product.
>That would be still tested at court, i.e. Spetember 1st 2002.
Sure, its legality may be tested in court. And I have no problem having a problem with them if it turns out to be illegal. However, a basic principle of wester law - innocent until proven otherwise.
And even if it would be found illegal, that would still not mean "it has nothing to do with Amiga" unless all my points would be somehow found invalid in which case I wonder what on earth could even be illegal about it...
Bottom line: I think my points a-e (but if you insist, c-e should suffice) clearly establish so strong a link between MorphOS and Amiga that the claim "It's not like MOS is anything to do with AMiGA in the first place." is false. Unless, perhaps, someone was to interpret "AMiGA" as Amiga Inc., which is another matter, obviously.
For me, the general meaning of Amiga has been a computer since 1985. Not a company. Your mileage may vary.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 29 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 26-Aug-2002 17:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
"g) by their own words are not targeting the Amiga Market."
Oh well, so then CDTV and CD32 also weren't Amigas as everyone knows those were not targeted at the Amiga market either? ;P
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 30 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2002 09:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Casey R Williams):
>>"g) by their own words are not targeting the Amiga Market."
>Oh well, so then CDTV and CD32 also weren't Amigas as everyone knows those
>were not targeted at the Amiga market either? ;P
Of course they were not Amigas. How silly is that. They didn't even have the word Amiga printed on the box *! Amiga is all about the name, you know. ;-) ;-)
*) They might have, CD32 especially, I'm not sure I remember correctly...
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 31 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Aug-2002 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Anonymous):
Substantial difference, both were made by the company that owns Amiga trademarks, IP and brand as
well as a lot of component sharing. Pegasos is not, it is a PPC motherboard that might
one day run a production version of an OS written on top of someone elses kernel
that has an Amiga OS3.1 compatible sandbox.
AmigaONE is only an Amiga because it is licensed and may eventually run AmigaOS4.0 and
is an officially sanctioned product.
Pepsi is a drink, CocaCola is a drink, Virgin Cola is a drink, water is a drink, this does not logically
imply that Pepsi == CocaCola == Virgin Cola == water.
Your argument was tongue in cheek but is easily proved not relevent.
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 32 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Aug-2002 15:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
>Your argument was tongue in cheek but is easily proved not relevent.
No kidding, huh? That WAS kind of the point... :-)
However, you do have a point in saying that Pegasos is not an Amiga(tm). That was not something I meant to imply. It does, still, have a lot to do with Amiga as people have explained above.
Your comparison of soft drinks was interesting, though. It, although I'm sure you didn't intend it that way, nicely underlines branding. They are all cola drinks, and you probably get Pepsi if you order Coke and the restaurant serves only Pepsi (although Coca Cola does try to discourage this to protect the trademark). Even more so, branding is an issue for water bottlers. Many people do not differentiate the tastes, just the sticker on the bottle and the pop-star of the day drinking it on TV.
This gets us to the point people have been trying to make. Just as all kinds of bottled water are deep down just water (they may have slightly differing recipes but they are all still water), there has evolved a sort of base for things I'd call here, for the lack of a better word, amiga. Not Amiga, just amiga. AROS is "amiga". MorphOS is "amiga". They are not Amiga. They all share, at least in their present form, sufficiently much that in terms of built-in compatibility that goes deep down to the entire design and API to make them very much related to Amiga, or at least AmigaOS.
This issue gets muddier when we consider the relevance of Amiga hardware legacy and third party addons that have been adopted by the trademark owners (the TAO technology for instance), but I believe the basics of this line of thinking work of pretty well. AmigaOS != MorphOS. But both are "amiga". Just like Evian != Aquafina. But both are water.
Obviously it all comes down to your definition of what constitutes as "amiga". This is a debate waged quite often with many people believing only in the trademark, whereas some take the stance that it is the technology that counts. Now, the latter of course faces the added dilemma that how much of that technology must be similar to Amiga for something to constitute as "amiga".
I believe the basic understanding in much of the more moderate elements in the community is that at present, there are three "amiga" operating systems in existance: the official and original AmigaOS 3.9 from Commodore/Amiga/H&P with a follow-up coming from Hyperion; AROS which builds on the AmigaOS API with source and limited binary compatibility; and MorphOS which provides both source and binary compatibility to AmigaOS, including the AmigaOS API.
There are also several Amiga emulation platforms in existence: UAE, Amiga Forever (mainly UAE), Amithlon and AmigaOS XL, and some others. Of these Amithlon is considered a bit more than an emulator due to its nature and its ability to execute native x86 code (AmigaOS XL may be able to do this as well, I do not know). Such a move has been contemplated for UAE as well, as one can read from the AROS website (UAE people are apparently interested in using AROS code to speed things up).
So, one can see that these emulators are moving closer to being more selfsustained and perhaps more operating system like, but what as of yet differentiates from being "amiga" (in the meaning of an AmigaOS compatible system) is the requirement of AmigaOS (which may be included with the emulator but is still separate).
From a technological perspective I'd find the distinction between an Amiga-like operating system and Amiga emulator to be quite clear. The first three are of the former type, and the last four+ are representatives of the latter category.
Now, it is quite possible that both AROS and MorphOS evolve in such a direction that they can no longer be considered "amiga", but I see that taking a lot of changes from the present. Currently both are programmed very much like an Amiga, and both run existing Amiga software. There is no AmigaOS 4.0 software yet, so there is no compatibility barrier until such software exists. When could AROS or MorphOS be considered sufficiently different from AmigaOS that they are no longer "amiga" is obviously a subjective call to make.
I'll make up my mind on that when we get there. For comparison, obviously we can state that Windows XP is no longer "ms-dos". Windows 95 on the other hand, well, the debate may still run rampant in some corner of the world...
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 33 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by XDelusion on 28-Aug-2002 16:53 GMT
It was the worst Amgia show I have ever seen, though I did get to see my old friend Bill, so that was worth while! :) Also I can not wait to see Amiga x86 after seeing Amithalon running. It totally blew away Amiga Emu I have ever seen.
The x1200 or whatever it was called was pretty funny, but I liked the portability idea, just needed a price drop, and a new gfx card.
Ticked me off big time that the new Amiga was not there, was almost a long drive for nothing, but then I found a Barbie PC for $125, and all was made well...
...not really. This thing is a piece of crap, BeOS crashes it every time. :/
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 34 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 28-Aug-2002 17:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
Running on SOMEONE ELSE'S KERNEL!?!?!??!
Quark is written by Ralph Schmidt.
It's HAL is also written by Ralph Schmidt
A/Box is written by Ralph Schmidt and his team.
I can't see anyone else...
Ohio Pegasos Demo Postponed : Comment 35 of 35ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 28-Aug-2002 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
@alkis
I read it like he was talking about AOS5..
"OS3.x sandbox"
"someone elses kernal"
"might some day run on pegasos"
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