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[News] Thendic: Post A-Expo notesANN.lu
Posted on 11-Sep-2002 18:05 GMT by Senex (Martin Heine)69 comments
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At Morphos-News.de Thendic France make a few post A-Expo notes. 1. Pricing for the Pegasos and Betatester

The Pegasos mainboard with 600 Mhz G3 (which is upgradeable AND scalable) will be sold to end-users for 560 Euros (no VAT) from Thendic-France or our Distributors/Resellers. Our prices to Resellers and Distributors are of course better and are based on volume. They are in business too. We need to support them and we will. The G4 upgrade (800Mhz) can be purchased for less than 200 Euros and you will be able to do this well before the end of the year -- if you want (see on an earlier thread here for a discussion about this). You will see basic models of the Pegasos for less than 800 Euros (including tax and taking all the different country VATs into consideration) as GGS Data in Sweden is now offering and Vesalia will soon.

2. MorphOS

MorphOS gets better daily and we will delivered Betatester machines 127-133 this week. Betatester machines remain 1000 Euros because of the extras that come with it - the smart card reader, the wireless camera, and the DataPlay module - depending on what the individual Betatester is working on. Betatesters also get successively upgraded (as required/desired) to each version of the G4 and have FTP access to the latest ROM. The Betatester becomes the development machine for the eclipsis. The first peripherals will be distributed in Frankfurt at Betatester II on 12 October.

3. Linux

Further, every version of Linux for the PPC known has been installed and works fine on the Pegasos. We have been especially amazed by Mac-on-Linux. Sitting next to a G4 iMac you cannot tell the difference between the machines while running the same applications.

4. Show/Demonstration Schedule and Updates

a. For the Finnish Amiga Users Group the following individuals will be present:

Gerald Carda (bplan)
Ralph Schmidt (bplan)
Rakesh Raghoebardayal (Thendic)
Sharwin Raghoebardayal (Thendic)
Teemu Suikki (Finnish MorphOS Core Developer)
Harry Sintonen (Finnish MorphOS Core Developer)

We will also have other Finnish Betatesters/Pegasos owners present.

b. Thendic/plan will be out in force for the WOA Show in Brentwood, Essex, UK on 2 November.

c. A Pegasos Show will be held in Lodz, Poland on 16 November. Please refer to www.pegasos.pl for details as they become available.

d. A Pegasos Show also be held in Moscow. A date has not been set. You will be able to see information on www.amiga.org.ru.

If you want to hold a Pegasos show/demo please send us an email. We will figure out a way to support you. There are Pegasos demos being planned/scheduled in nearly every weekend until the big show in Aachen in December.

5. Un grand MERCI!

The A-Expo was *extremely* well organized. We were very pleased to be involved. Congratulations to the A-Expo Team! We will have our pictures from the event posted to www.thendic-france.com shortly.

Sincerely, Raquel and Bill
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 51 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 13-Sep-2002 07:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Bill Hoggett):
Yes, that is very much what I'm talking about. I've tried to discuss the level of maturity of Thendic-France actions with Bill & Raquel over e-mail but all I ever got was something along the lines "is that what you think about us?".
Please note: That was not an actual quote from what they said. It's just a simple observation that they never gave me any substantial reason for their actions. The actual contents of their private letters to me stays confidential.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 52 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by LorD on 13-Sep-2002 07:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Samface):
I have a Betatester so I know how it is working... but I am NOT againt AmigaOS/AmigaOne !!!!!!!
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 53 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by LorD on 13-Sep-2002 08:00 GMT
@Samface
I don't know what is wrong with Thendic ethic.... You are telling things, but you are not even able to explain them... and these things can also been applyed to AmigaInc if you think about it...
Thendic, nor Morphos never lied about what was announced...
And the Pegasos/Morphos doesn't go against Amiga (as an entity)...
I don't know why so much people don't try to open there mind on what is around us...
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 54 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 13-Sep-2002 08:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Solar):
@ Solar
"Hyperion told us that dual-booting Windows is *evil* because it allows you to use the apps of the Enemy. IIRC the MorphOS camp more or less agreed with this."
Nice try, Solar.
1.) As I'm sure you'll know, the people behind bPlan were involved with Phase5 and contributed to the development of PowerUP and Phase5's PPC accelerators. It was only natural that they decided to use their existing expertise to create an even better PPC hardware (plus OS).
There is no money to be made in the x86 market unless you're one of the big players. And if _you_ had been in charge of bPlan, you wouldn't have went the x86 route either!!!
2) Go to Thendic's webpage and read about their plans regarding the Eclipsis. As the Eclipsis will be based on the PEGASOS board, it is no wonder they chose to go the PPC route...
"Now they are boasting how you can run Mac-on-Linux on the Pegasos, which allows you...?
Correct. To use Word, Excel and Internet Explorer.
Then again, a PPC desktop OS isn't competing with Microsoft. Sorry I forgot that. ;-)"
Well, one thing is for sure... While Shapeshifter/Fusion didn't accelerate the decline of the Amiga _at all_, Microsoft was *part* of the reason why Be Inc. failed.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 55 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 13-Sep-2002 13:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (André Siegel):
> There is no money to be made in the x86 market
Doh! That should read "There is no money to be made in the x86 hardware market" ...
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 56 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 13-Sep-2002 18:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (André Siegel):
If there was no $ in the x86 hardware, I doubt alot of these new companies that are making inroads to the x86 market would ever be started in the first place. With the exception of embedded systems, I see no real market for none x86 mobos. Guess that is one of the reasons why I can't see HYPE/Eyetech nor bPlan/MOS surviving for too long. Demand is simply no there.
Dammy
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 57 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 13-Sep-2002 20:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Samface):
"AmigaOS on PPC"
True for the early betas, it was an emulator running AmigaOS on PPC. Fine.
"Amiga next-generation PowerPC OS"
Improve your English and I'll try explaining that you ONCE again. GRAMMATICALLY,
it doesn't need any logic. It's a Amiga (runs on Amiga computers), next
generation (WIDELY used marketing term, and yes, there was a previews
generation, there are several os generations:) PowerPC (runs on PowerPC CPUs)
OS (Yes, it IS an os.)
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 58 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 13-Sep-2002 20:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Samface):
Do you realize that the early MOS betas that used AmigaOS weren't even full
versions, but free time limited demos?
Anyway... What next? Sue the UAE makers? The Fellow makers? Start a war against
all emulators?
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 59 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 13-Sep-2002 20:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Samface):
Did you realize that people from your side too, started to get tired of you
and your fixed statements? Yes, you always use the same, and even recycle them
AFTER someone proved you wrong in earlier threads...
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 60 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Sep-2002 02:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Bill Hoggett):
Bill Hoggett wrote:
@gary_c
>> While you can claim the original behavior illustrates the company's lack of
>> ethics, I can also claim that stopping the behavior illustrates their
>> awareness of ethics.
>Not really. The particular exercise he was referring to never had a commercial value (in that it wasn't bringing in interested potential customers), so it was always going to be short term move, a way of publically saying "up yours" to certain people.
Yes, I agree with you there. I agree that Bill of Thendic hasn't shown good judgement a lot of the time, or anyway he doesn't act the way I'd expect a level-headed businessman to act. That idea of having Thendic ads appear on search results for personal names was pretty goofy and could only very indirectly have anything to do with Pegasos sales. But peoples' cries of "unethical behavior" seem rather over the top. A ridiculous kind of ad-placing, and a ridiculous reaction.
> IMHO the gesture demonstrates a lack of maturity on the part of the perpetrator, but judging by the reaction in certain corners of this forum, some found it "cool" and "funny". Oh well, some people laugh when someone says "fart"....
[Stifling a chuckle.] True. Maturity has been a rare commodity all around.
-- gary_c
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 61 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 14-Sep-2002 06:26 GMT
With regards to "evilness of being able to use microsoft products".
Personally, I think this applies if you're basically running a
microsoft computer (eg a standard pc), but not so much if you're
simply providing some emulation. People are simply likely to put money
for software in the same camp that they already put a large amount for
the hardware. Or in other words, people are less likely to buy
software for their emulators, than software which runs natively.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 62 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 14-Sep-2002 06:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (dammy):
"If there was no $ in the x86 hardware, I doubt alot of these new companies that are making inroads to the x86 market would ever be started in the first place."
Do you know any small x86 mainboard manufactorers? I don't.
"With the exception of embedded systems, I see no real market for none x86 mobos."
Just go to Thendic's webpage and read about their "Eclisis" project. Enough said.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 63 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2002 09:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
MOS is not simply an emulator but a competing product, thats a huge difference.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 64 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2002 09:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
So do you. Also noone proved the statement to be wrong. Some people just stated that they dont think its unethical.
The "personal" adds aside, it would have been ok if they attached it to the term "Amiga". But they did not, and attached it to "amigaone" instead, a term which has absolutely nothing to do with pegasos - and this is unethical because it leads unaware people into believing it does ("amiga" in contrast has something to do with it). And no, not everyone does that, in fact rather noone but thendic does that. Additionally, as has been stated, this may not only be illegal in some countries, but is also against googles terms of use (only precise and directly connected keywords are allowed). Also note that there is no sponsored link for "pegasos" which is the equivalent to "amigaone" (both hardware).
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 65 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2002 09:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Anonymous):
>MOS is not simply an emulator but a competing product, thats a
>huge difference.
Ah, yes. The age-old, lets sue the competition if we can't compete? ;-)
Kidding aside, the fact remains: MorphOS was only advertised as AmigaOS on PPC when it was not much more than an emulator, and it was advertised as a next-generation PowerPC OS very early on as well (when it was, indeed, a next-gen PowerPC OS that ran only on Amigas). The product is different today, and only now it is in competition with AmigaOS (although that is not the only market, see eclipsis for instance). Originally there was to be no more AmigaOS, so how could MorphOS be in competition with something that was dead in the water?
So, yes, MorphOS is now competing with AmigaOS. But nobody is claiming it is AmigaOS. Sure, it has its roots in the Amiga community, has a compatibility API and much of the Amiga feel, so it is relevant to many Amiga users, but other than that... it is not advertised as an AmigaOS, or not really an OS for Amigas either, although it should still run on Amigas with suitable accelerators in the future as well.
Interoperability and emulation themselves are legal. Now, whether or not something in MorphOS is illegal is for the courts to decide. Accusations have been made, people are now waiting for legal action to follow. Until such a decision by the courts, MorphOS remains innocent. If on the other hand MorphOS is found legal, something could be said about the tactics of its competition. The burden of proof is on them.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 66 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2002 09:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Anonymous):
True, but it does not count what would or could have been. The only point made was that the situation is different to "just" an emulator.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 67 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2002 09:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Anonymous):
> Ah, yes. The age-old, lets sue the competition if we can't compete? ;-)
Thendic supporters should like that anyway, because "everyone" does it, so it must be ok.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 68 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 14-Sep-2002 20:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Anonymous):
Ehm, MorphOS would originally be shipped WITH an OS 3.1 distribution, that's
not competition.
Thendic: Post A-Expo notes : Comment 69 of 69ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 15-Sep-2002 12:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Oops, I meant to say that it would require a 3.1 distribution (workbench, prefs
etc.), so it wouldn't compete with AOS, it would complement it.
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