| [News] AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 13-Sep-2002 23:10 GMT by VMC Harald Frank | 40 comments
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At O.A.S.E.2 event in Austria this weekend, Mr. Schober will show
first in public new parts of AmithlonXL product, including stuff
also that would be first available after sales release of OS4!
The O.A.S.E.2 event, which will be held this weekend in Graz, will see the
first public demonstration of AmithlonXL components. Some of the parts
shown would regularly be first available only with the release of the
announced OS4 operating system.
The new stuff demonstrated there, will include Audio drivers for SBLive,
TerraTec Solo1, TerraTec 512i, CMedia and many many others. However, because
of the short time we had, we were unable to get all the hardware to demonstrate
all new Audio drivers.
The Network connection will be established trough a RealTek 100Mbit card
controlled by the brandnew TCP/IP-Stack RoadShow from well known
Olaf Barthel. The features of RoadShow will include great services
as PPPoE, firewall and extended routing possibilities.
The system will be presented by Mr. Schober on his AthlonXP 1800. This
machine will be equipped with SoundBlasterLive, RealTek 100Mbit Network
Adapter and Matrox DualHead graphics card.
If possible, some benchmarks with the new FFS2 file sytem will be made, but
if time should prove to be short for those, we will deliver their results
on our Amithlon product home page later.
More information about AmithlonXL and AmigaOS XL Updates will be available
shortly on the usual web sites of our distributor Haage&Partner.
Naturally these will also contain information about pricing and availability.
Link to O.A.S.E.2 event http://www.oase.at/cgi-bin/start.cgi
Link to Amithlon/AmigaOS XL Homepage http://www.amithlon.de
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 1 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 13-Sep-2002 21:31 GMT | AmithlonXL / AmigaOSXL ? ? ?
Something is flying right over my head, is Amithlon 1 being updated by H&P, or did Bernd rejoin ???? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 2 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Mike Veroukis on 13-Sep-2002 22:35 GMT | huh?!? WHat's going on here??? I thought there were legal issues with Amithlon and H&P, and now they are releasing a new version??? Ah, whatever... typical Amiga market BS....
- Mike |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 3 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 13-Sep-2002 23:23 GMT | This <a href="http://www.amithlon.net/en/amithlon_statement.txt">statement</a> by Bernd Meyer is completely false?
There are no legal issues that prevent this product from being shown or sold or even developed?
Or have you simply given the Amithlon name to H&P without announcing it to the public? And of course, the product contains _only_ H&P's and your code, and any other code involved is licensed, right?
Using code that someone else wrote and owns without a license is illegal in every country I know of! |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 4 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2002 01:08 GMT | | Has someone been smoking the wacky tobaccy? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 5 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bernd Meyer on 14-Sep-2002 02:28 GMT | Please see http://www.amithlon.net/en/amithlonxl.txt for clarification.
Apart from that, allow me a personal opinion: What a monumentally stupid name! As if there aren't enough users confused between "AmigaXL", "AmigaOS XL" and "Amithlon" already.... |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 6 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by X on 14-Sep-2002 03:30 GMT | This is pretty cool, both Roadshow and FFS2.. :)
Mr Meyer,
Will your 2.0 version contain Roadshow? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 7 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bernd Meyer on 14-Sep-2002 03:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 6 (X):
No, it won't. The reason being that I really don't see the point in bundling lots of software that most people might not want. If you want Roadshow and/or FFS2, then a comment posted by it's author (Olaf Barthel) on amiga-news.de indicates that it will be available for 68k users. So If you want it, you will be able to get it. If you don't want it, there is no reason to make you pay for it. That's my attitude, and "the product formerly known as Amithlon 2.0" will be a lot cheaper for it. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 8 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 14-Sep-2002 05:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (Bernd Meyer):
That suits me. I already have MiamiDx, so I don't need Roadshow.
It`s a bit surprising that Olaf would allow his name to be involved in
this dubious project. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 9 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 14-Sep-2002 06:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (Don Cox):
This all is getting quite confusing... I hope it'll make sense some day.
Makes me wonder how many subgroups are there going to be (and all fighting agains each other) before this collapses to itself. *Ahem* couple new threats of lawsuits, that's all. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 10 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 14-Sep-2002 06:46 GMT | | Who is Mr Shober anyway? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 11 of 40 | ANN.lu |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 12 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 14-Sep-2002 07:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 11 (Kronos):
Hmm.
I suppose if Harald is offering him a product to sell, he isn't going
to refuse. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 13 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 14-Sep-2002 07:44 GMT | I should point out that our contract with Olaf does not allow for FFS2 to be bundled with Amithlon etc.
Roadshow, yes, FFS2, no. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 14 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 14-Sep-2002 08:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
So this demonstration is intended to pre-empt OS 4 as well as Bernie's
Version 2? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 15 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 14-Sep-2002 08:11 GMT | | I hope the drivers for the SBLive and RTL8139 will be available to 1.0 users too? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 16 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 14-Sep-2002 08:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
@Ben
> I should point out that our contract with Olaf does not allow for FFS2 to
> be bundled with Amithlon etc.
Just a request for clarification: does your contract with Olaf mean FFS2 is EXCLUSIVE to AOS4, or does it just mean it can't be bundled with any other product, but may be sold as a separate product for 68k users etc., in the manner of PFS? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 17 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kronos on 14-Sep-2002 08:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 16 (Bill Hoggett):
If I umderstood Olaf right in that other thread than FFS2 is more or
less just FFS on PPC with a few extra bells, and there are allready
good filesystems available for 68k, so I don't see much sense in
FFS2-68k. RoadShow is offcourse a completly different beast as it is
allmost impossible to connect an Amiga to broadband these days.
Genesis won't do it, or only with a router or X-Surf.
Miami is a prob on it's own and fails on more and more basis-stations
in Germany. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 18 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 14-Sep-2002 09:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 17 (Kronos):
> If I umderstood Olaf right in that other thread than FFS2 is more or
> less just FFS on PPC with a few extra bells, and there are allready
> good filesystems available for 68k, so I don't see much sense in FFS2-68k.
The plug-in feature may be interesting, but I agree, FFS2-68k version is not crucial. I was just asking out of cusriosity and because it helps to get proper clarification on these things. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 19 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2002 09:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 17 (Kronos):
>Miami is a prob on it's own and fails on more and more basis-stations in Germany.
?? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 20 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Neodym on 14-Sep-2002 09:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 17 (Kronos):
I agree - FFS2 is not interesting to me at all. It is still slow and i am not willing to trade in lots of speed for some more redundancy, when SFS and regular backups make a perfect team already.
Regarding Miami: Where is the problem? How many people are there left today having only one single Amiga as the only Computer? Hardware router are quite cheap these days (some already include WLan) and if this is still too much go and get some old 486 junk PC for 5 Euros, download that FLI4whatsitsname and use that peecee as (Linux-based) router. It does not even need a harddrive, but runs completely from floppy disk, which makes the PC very silent and less power-consuming, just standing in some corner or functioning as monitor stand.
A successor to MiamiDx should IMHO offer more like e.g. Rendezvous-similar connectivity, saving the user from editing cryptical port and interface descriptions and making Samba-connections a question of pressing a few buttons.
Now i hope Berniethlon will come out soon to allow me finally setting up a virtually totally virus-resistant internet machine (btw: Bernie - i sympathize with your way of not bundling loads of software that is not really needed b everyone! Please continue that policy!)
Neo
P.S.: "AmithlonXL" - why do i have the impression that some damn freeloader wants to use a good name for pushing his own product? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 21 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 14-Sep-2002 10:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 16 (Bill Hoggett):
Our contract with Olaf regarding FFS2 limits the distribution of FFS2 to PPC.
Anything else doesn't make much sense anyway as FFS2 is actually slighther slower in some respects than FFS.
The 68K version that it.
FFS2 is mainly provided as a backwards compatibility option to allow easy migration of harddisks to OS 4.
A PPC native version of SFS will also be included and we are already looking into a more robust filesystem beyond that. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 22 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 14-Sep-2002 11:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
@Ben Hermans
Thanks for the reply. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 23 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2002 16:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Hmm. I have no agenda here, but maybe "Some benchmarks with..." is intended to mean that they will show emulated 68k FFS on AmithlonXL thrashing FFS2 on some unspecified platform, or even x86 accelerated SFS on AmithlonXL thrashing FFS & FFS2. I guess we'll see soon enough. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 24 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sam Byford - (Bifford the Youngest) on 14-Sep-2002 16:59 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"A PPC native version of SFS will also be included and we are already looking into a more robust filesystem beyond that."
Will I be able to use PFS3 on a OS4.0 (Shark or A1 if I buy one) machine?
Can you PLEASE look into getting the PFS3 team to port thier product to the new systems, or buy their work so you can port it yourselves.
Many thanks,
Sam Byford. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 25 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Olaf Barthel on 14-Sep-2002 20:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (Bernd Meyer):
> No, it won't. The reason being that I really don't see the point in
> bundling lots of software that most people might not want. If you
> want Roadshow and/or FFS2, then a comment posted by it's author (Olaf
> Barthel) on amiga-news.de indicates that it will be available for 68k
> users.
The FFS reimplementation doesn't make great sense on a 68k platform,
not even in emulation, actually. If you bought OS 3.9 you've already
got one of the better FFS implementations, namely the real thing ;)
As for the TCP/IP stack, there currently don't appear to be many
contenders; it would actually be helpful to have it on the 68k
platform. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 26 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Olaf Barthel on 14-Sep-2002 20:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (Don Cox):
> That suits me. I already have MiamiDx, so I don't need Roadshow.
>
> It`s a bit surprising that Olaf would allow his name to be involved in
> this dubious project.
The talks about getting the 68k Roadshow integrated with Amithlon go
way back when the situation was very different. I'm not trying to make
this sound like an excuse, but I gave my word that the TCP/IP stack
would be available for licensing. The deteriorating relationship between
Bernd and Harald/Haage & Partner is lamentable, but it does not nullify
the oral agreement I entered into when I gave my word.
(Just to put this straight.) |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 27 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Olaf Barthel on 14-Sep-2002 20:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
> Hmm. I have no agenda here, but maybe "Some benchmarks with..." is intended
> to mean that they will show emulated 68k FFS on AmithlonXL thrashing FFS2 on
> some unspecified platform, or even x86 accelerated SFS on AmithlonXL thrashing
> FFS & FFS2. I guess we'll see soon enough.
I don't know the intention, but I do know from my own benchmarking that the
assembly language FFS implementation is hard to beat; if you do the same job
in portable 'C' you can't pull all the nifty tricks assembly language would
allow for. The file system implementation's core is also very different,
you have quite an efficient message processing engine in there with very
little overhead. I'm quite confident that algorithmically, I've been more
fortunate than the original implementors. The sort of priority queues and
search trees I'm using weren't even invented at the time the original FFS
was created (and it hasn't changed that much since then). But what really
holds the reimplementation back in terms of performance is that it's much
more paranoid than the original FFS; whereas the original assumed that
within 3 seconds it ought to be able to push any metadata to disk, my
reimplementation pushes it to disk as soon as possible, in a specific order
which should minimize the potential for data corruption. That's the price
you pay for more reliability :( |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 28 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by 3seas on 14-Sep-2002 20:38 GMT | | we need a boing boxing ring.....all red and white checkered..... and checkered red and whit gloves that when you hit your opponent the glove says "you suck". |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 29 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Elektro on 14-Sep-2002 22:33 GMT | | Any pics from the event? |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 30 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Lazlo on 15-Sep-2002 01:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 28 (3seas):
> red and whit gloves that
> when you hit your opponent
> the glove says "you suck".
What are you talking about? Why would the glove talk?
you suck |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 31 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 15-Sep-2002 05:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 24 (Sam Byford - (Bifford the Youngest)):
>Will I be able to use PFS3 on a OS4.0 (Shark or A1 if I buy one) machine?
If it works under emulation, it should work yes.
>Can you PLEASE look into getting the PFS3 team to port thier product to the new >systems, or buy their work so you can port it yourselves.
I don't think the PFS3 team is still active enough to undertake a project of this scope.
We currently have no plans to buy their work but are instead evaluating various BSD and NIX filesystems which could be Amigaized. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 32 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 15-Sep-2002 05:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 25 (Olaf Barthel):
"As for the TCP/IP stack, there currently don't appear to be many
contenders; it would actually be helpful to have it on the 68k
platform. "
It would be extremely helpful. We desperately need a good TCP stack
since MiamiDx went off the market. The sooner Roadshow is released the
better. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 33 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Dan Boyd on 15-Sep-2002 06:22 GMT | | one word......HOAX |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 34 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Jürgen Lange on 15-Sep-2002 07:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 33 (Dan Boyd):
Have you been in Graz this weekend? So tell about it, please. ;-)
I think, we have to wait for the Interview with Jürgen Haage in
AmigaPlus, issiue 09/2002 to learn more about AmithlonXL. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 35 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by TBone on 15-Sep-2002 07:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
@Ben Hermans
> I should point out that our contract with Olaf does not allow for FFS2 to be bundled with Amithlon etc. <
Oh, yea, like the words of a lawyer mean anything to people who ignore laws, licenses, and contracts.
;) |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 36 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by TBone on 15-Sep-2002 07:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 33 (Dan Boyd):
re: HOAX
I think so too. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 37 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by NARR on 15-Sep-2002 09:31 GMT | We will have a huge report of the O.A.S.E. 2 at GFX-BASE soon! Stay tuned.:)
Ciao,
Richard
http://www.gfxbase.com |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 38 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 15-Sep-2002 09:59 GMT | In reply to Comment 35 (TBone):
@TBone
> Oh, yea, like the words of a lawyer mean anything to people who ignore
> laws, licenses, and contracts.
I think those things mean something to Olaf though. I suspect that someone who feels obliged to honour a verbal agreement even in a situation that must have given him pause for thought will also honour a written contract. I have never heard anything about Olaf to indicate that he might do otherwise.
As for the "hoax" theory, I doubt it. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 39 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by TBone on 15-Sep-2002 12:26 GMT | In reply to Comment 38 (Bill Hoggett):
Yea, I didn't notice the way that looked untill you replied to it, didn't mean anything about Olaf at all...
I don't know, sounds like a ruse to me, it'd be a pretty dumb thing to do to announce support for a filesystem that he can't (due to contract) have access to, which suggests he probably didn't _know_ he couldn't have access to it, and didn't know the contract details, which also suggests he never asked. My money says this is a snowjob.
Who'd be dumb enough to BUY it if it were real? Everyone's already shelled out $145 for A1, which was unlicensed and we were bitten by it. if he thinks ANYONE would willingly pay AGAIN for **ANOTHER** unlicensed product....
It's just too incredibly insane to be true. I could be wrong, but watching the mailing list, and observing the division of labor in A1, I just find it hard to believe he went and threw this together by himself.
Oh hell, what do I know. I'm imagining another scenario, I'm afraid if I say it it'll come true. |
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| AmithlonXL world premiere at O.A.S.E.2 event in Graz : Comment 40 of 40 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Jürgen Schober on 15-Sep-2002 20:37 GMT | A short comment from the show.
What I got were some files from Harald Frank which he calls "AmithlonXL" (ATM).
It included the roadshow TCP/IP stack (which we also demoed on the 3 OS4 machines), 100MBit Ethernet (which we also demoed on 2 OS4 machines) and sound support. The base was an Amithlon system based on the AmigaXL distribution with Bernies recent contrib 3 update. Haralds archive also contained new gfx drivers, though multi monitor support is also possible with Bernies contrib 3 archive. Sound support included some soundcards (which don't all know from memory yet), but we had a SB Live! and the Terratec 512i "running" (well, sort of, I couldn't go ahead this damend "could not open ahi.device V4" under Amplifier problem - which is not an Amithlon problem but my fault. Didn't have enough time to fix that, but AHI-prefs and the new AmithlonMixer worked fine, though).
(Ben, I had the same problem with Martins SB Live driver).
BTW: We got the A1 running on Sunday (was just a stupid 133/100MHz settings problem (Alan, maybe you sould add a simple page with jumper settings to the boards;). It runs on a GForce2MX (AGP) and the built in USB BIOS support was nice to show (we had a big focus on USB & Highway at the show - this is one of the most cool stuff since a while on the Amiga, believe me!) The board was a Rev 'B' board with the latest PPCBoot BIOS. Nothing more, it was so new, that nothing (not even linux) could be adopted in time to the board.
BTW2: David Scheibler also demoed the Pegasos under MorphOS, just to mention.
I didn't have to much time to check that out, though, sorry.
lg
Jürgen |
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