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[Web] Something for EveryoneANN.lu
Posted on 17-Sep-2002 07:46 GMT by Mike Bouma90 comments
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In a new Amiga editorial for Suite101, John Chandler focusses on the Amiga solutions already available and what we can soon expect from Amiga Inc. Among this are AmigaDE enabled Zaurus PDAs and smartphones, AA availability in mainstream European shops and AmigaOS 4.0 scheduled for a pre-Christmas launch.
Something for Everyone : Comment 51 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 17-Sep-2002 19:37 GMT
To Amiga corporate zealots: WHERE'S THE BEEF?! It certainly isn't in this marketing drool.
BTW PowerPC is not dead. PowerPC's 64bit implementation is the BEST OUT THERE! Itanium? Dead. Hammer? Delayed. Sparc? Wimp.
Sure, if you want to run DOOM 3 there's nothing better than a P4. However what if you want to address more memory or use multiple processors? Optimizing for PowerPC for multimedia applications is FAR easier to do with the PowerPC ISA, especially with AltiVec. x86 is CRAP!
Unfortunately nobody has been developing PowerPC processors targeted for the consumer market. Reportedly IBM is working on a light version of the POWER4 with AltiVec for use in desktops and small servers (called GP-UL), however you won't see the products on the shelf until Sep/Oct '03. The economy sucks now and nobody is going to rush products out the door with the current glut.
Anyway x86 is living on borrowed time and the best non-x86 processor is PowerPC. If you want to play DOOM 3 go ahead and buy a cheap PC, but don't fool yourself into thinking that this means PowerPC isn't appropriate for the Amiga platform.
Something for Everyone : Comment 52 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 17-Sep-2002 20:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Mike Bouma):
"Amiga Anywhere and AmigaDE share common APIs and other source code
with AmigaOS. ", That's what I responded too, the API's of AmigaDE/AmigaSDK/Amiga Anywhere or whatever buzzword they rebadge it under, have nothing in common with AmigaOS API's, period, end of story, if you tried to build an anti-amiga development environment I think this would be it, of course if you use C code, some amiga applications can be ported too AmigaDE, but this is hardly a case of "sharing code". I think you need to suck it up, and give up defending your position on that, and give up the bit about getting insider information too, (obviously your insider info comes from Amiga press releases). I don't understand the blind loyalty to these guys some people exhibit, they've done nothing but come up with stories/excuses for a few years, it isn't like Amiga Inc. is owned by long-time devoted Amiga users/developers, that have earned the right over time, to be rewarded with faith in the company, and many things since they've owned it imply we should not have faith in them or their abilities to fullfill a project, any project successfully.
Something for Everyone : Comment 53 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-Sep-2002 20:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Mike Bouma):
The source code CAN NOT be used. It's mainly 68k ASM. The OS4 team, ported it
to C, while AROS, and partly MorphOS (for the non aros modules) rewrote it for
PPC. Amiga Inc. doesn't have the OS4 sources, they only have the rights to
buy them back afaik. So now, the sources CANNOT be in AmigaDE:)
Something for Everyone : Comment 54 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Justin Smith on 17-Sep-2002 20:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (MIKE):
[the API's of AmigaDE/AmigaSDK/Amiga Anywhere or whatever buzzword they rebadge it under, have nothing in common with AmigaOS API's, period, end of story, if you tried to build an anti-amiga development environment I think this would be it, of course if you use C code, some amiga applications can be ported too AmigaDE, but this is hardly a case of "sharing code".]
-----------------------------------------
Interview with Ben Hermans, http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jniemima/interviews/ben_hermans.html
11. What is your opinion on AmigaDE?
Currently only useful on PDA's. We do work together with the DE developers and this has resulted in source-code exchanges (for instance the new datatype system for DE or AmigaInput).
-----------------------------------------
MIKE, why don't you do a bit of research, or maybe THINK, before you start spouting such FUD.
Something for Everyone : Comment 55 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-Sep-2002 20:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Anonymous):
Well, some flaming every now and then doesn't hurt... Saying that AmigaDE uses
the AmigaOS sources is... hilarious... read my previews post...
Something for Everyone : Comment 56 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Justin Smith on 17-Sep-2002 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
[Saying that AmigaDE uses the AmigaOS sources is... hilarious... read my previews post...]
Why don't you read mine, Alkis? Your ongoing ignorance is the only thing making me laugh.
Something for Everyone : Comment 57 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-Sep-2002 20:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Justin Smith):
When we use the term AmigaOS API: we mean the AmigaOS API itself, not highlevel
stuff like the datatypes system and AmigaInput which are parts of OS4 ONLY
and are not even released. Read the Commodore RKMs or the AmigaOS autodocs
to see the functions in the AmigaOS API... If you find them anywhere in AmigaDE,
sing loudly.
Something for Everyone : Comment 58 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-Sep-2002 20:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Justin Smith):
I wouldn't call that ignorance...
Something for Everyone : Comment 59 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Tilsted on 17-Sep-2002 20:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (strobe):
Who exatly are selling 64bit powerpc chips to the general public?
Martin Tilsted
Something for Everyone : Comment 60 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Justin Smith on 17-Sep-2002 21:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Trying to change the argument doesn't make you any less wrong, Alkis. Going from denying any sharing of sources at all (proven false) to looking at RKMs over ten years out of date misses the point entirely--as the AmigaDE and AmigaOS4.x+ develop, they'll grow together, sharing code and evolving APIs as they merge into the as yet mythical AmigaOS5. They're not trying to hack some sort of legacy AmigaOS 3.x API compatibility on top of the Elate core, which would just be silly.
Thanks, though, for helping to point out the diminishing value of MorphOS's 3.x compatibility with AmigaOS4 on the way.
Something for Everyone : Comment 61 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Justin Smith on 17-Sep-2002 21:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
[I wouldn't call that ignorance...]
Claiming that "saying that AmigaDE uses the AmigaOS sources is... hilarious..." when 10 seconds on Google can prove otherwise seems to qualify to me.
But I can tell this particular discussion can't go anywhere good, so let's just agree to stick to our own dictionaries.
Something for Everyone : Comment 62 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Sep-2002 00:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Mike Bouma):
>The project wasn't moving because solely Linux for the PPC is a hard sell.
Excuse me, but in March 2002 MAI had a price of $25 for their NB Chip in quantities of 10,000 - don´t tell me Amiga or Eyetech are such an important partner since they will only sell 1000 or 2000 machines (Mr Redhouse said they will produce more than for the club/membership campaign - but not _many_ more!).
Something for Everyone : Comment 63 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Sep-2002 00:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (strobe):
The Power4 is a monster Chip, but IBM showed they have the techniques to put eight (!) CPUs on one Chip and still be able to clock it to 1.3GHz. Now we only have to make this available to the average poweruser and get the price down.
Voila, we have a winner, baby!
Something for Everyone : Comment 64 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by amorel on 18-Sep-2002 02:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Mike Bouma):
"Alkis, the words of people like Ben Hermans and Fleecy Moss mean alot more to me with regard to"
Ofcourse this shows you can`t be trusted regarding information related to amiga, as those people are everything but genuine and trustworthy.
Something for Everyone : Comment 65 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 18-Sep-2002 03:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Martin Tilsted):
He's delusional. IIRC, Power4 doesn't have altivec, and after they get cutting Power4 down, it's not going to be impressive vs the mainstream CPUs from Intel and AMD. I would highly doubt having such low production volumes will make it competitive with Intel's or AMD's CPUs.
Dammy
Something for Everyone : Comment 66 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 18-Sep-2002 03:54 GMT
> When we use the term AmigaOS API
I recommend you do a search on the internet on what being an API really means. For instance is OpenGL an API, yes it is, is it ported to many very different environments, yes again. Also note that I would have specified it, if I was talking about *classic* AmigaOS. I am talking about AmigaOS 4.0 and beyond, I know most people this should have been obvious.
Something for Everyone : Comment 67 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 18-Sep-2002 04:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (MonkeyOS):
flattery will get u nowwhere monkeyboy
Something for Everyone : Comment 68 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 18-Sep-2002 04:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Alkis Tsapanidis wrote:
> It's mainly 68k ASM.
Even if you talk about classic AmigaOS source code this is just plain nonesense. Please stop this, I take no pleasure in you making yourself look like a fool...
Something for Everyone : Comment 69 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 18-Sep-2002 08:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Mike Bouma is absolutely right when he says AmigaDE and OS 4 will share API's.
One of the most obvious examples is Warp3D/Ami3D ofcourse.
Another example is AmigaInput and more are in the works.
It stands to reason that current PDA's which are in terms of performance equal to an 060 based Amiga will benefit from technology developed for a low footprint desktop system.
Something for Everyone : Comment 70 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 18-Sep-2002 08:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Yes, there still is some 68K ASM in AmigaOS and guess what, there still is some 68K code in Mac OS 9.2.
For DE purposes however none of this code has any relevance.
It's clear that when I said that AmigaOS and AmigaDE share code and API's that I was primarily referring to high-level API's such as Ami3D and AmigaInput.
Not something like DOS library or Exec.
Something for Everyone : Comment 71 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by derf on 18-Sep-2002 09:04 GMT
Now who is going to be man enough to apologise to Mike Bouma about how they have accused him of lies, and not knowing what he's on about?
Alkis? DOJ? Dammy?
hmm, i think i may be asking for too much to get people to admit they are wrong, and extremly nasty in putting their point across, especially on this board... *sigh*
Thankyou for the article Mike, it was a good read and as shown here had something for everyone which they didnt know before ;-)
Something for Everyone : Comment 72 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Sep-2002 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben
Something for Everyone : Comment 73 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Sep-2002 09:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Ben, what Bouma should say is that is uses some high level APIs that are also
used in OS4, not that AmigaDE uses the AmigaOS API. I apologise for being so
"absolute" about my opinion, but the AmigaInput and the new Warp3D APIs have
not been published yet. Warp3D became a part of the official AmigaOS API just
when you got the OS4 development.
Something for Everyone : Comment 74 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 18-Sep-2002 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> Ben, what Bouma should say is that is uses some high level APIs that are
> also used in OS4, not that AmigaDE uses the AmigaOS API.
Allkis, I only stated that the AmigaDE shares common APIs and other source code with AmigaOS and this will continue. I was even using the reference to "APIs" plurally and I did not specified classic AmigaOS anywhere.
> I apologise for being so "absolute" about my opinion
That's OK, anyone can make a mistake. Sadly personal attacks have become to be more and more common on ANN. Just know there are no hard feelings on my part. Let's just forget about all this and be happy that projects are moving ahead at full steam, regardless of what your personal preferences may be. :)
Something for Everyone : Comment 75 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 18-Sep-2002 10:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Ok, point well taken.
It's true that Ami3D is not yet available nor is AmigaInput.
All I wanted to say is that we do intend to evaluate all DE API's for suitability on the desktop OS and vice versa.
It's crazy to try and reinvent the wheel all the time.
Plus it stands to reason that if you can target more or less the same API's on both the desktop and DE, it will be far easier to move content and code between both.
Much in the same way that you see certain Windows API's make a reappearance in PocketPC.
Something for Everyone : Comment 76 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 18-Sep-2002 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> It's true that Ami3D is not yet available nor is AmigaInput.
Yes I believe we can all agree to that, neither AmigaOS4 nor AmigaDE are available yet. Currently only AmigaOS version 3.9-x is and with regard to AmigaDE based projects, the only general consumer targeted product is Amiga Anywhere Entertainment Pack #1.
Something for Everyone : Comment 77 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Turrican on 18-Sep-2002 12:20 GMT
Dear Amigans,
Amiga OS 4 for CSPPC won't be available this XMas.
Nor will be Amiga OS 4 for AmigaOne in february 2003.
You must add at least 12 months to have an approximative correct release date.
Of course some of you won't believe that. That's why I give them a rendez vous this XMas and then in february 2k3 to check out.
Your avenger,
Turrican
Something for Everyone : Comment 78 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 18-Sep-2002 12:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Turrican):
Unnecessary.
(we remember those words always, like a nightmare, every night, no need to remind)
Something for Everyone : Comment 79 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Sep-2002 14:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
.. "afaik" .. you dont know nothing
Something for Everyone : Comment 80 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Sep-2002 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
He said it shares some sources. That certainly doesnt mean everything but is also certainly not impossible. You dont have a clue of programming do you?
Something for Everyone : Comment 81 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Sep-2002 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (amorel):
Oh right, ofcourse morphos affiliates know more about os4 and de than amiga does.
Something for Everyone : Comment 82 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Sep-2002 14:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> I apologise for being so "absolute" about my opinion...
In this case please ignore my last comments.
Something for Everyone : Comment 83 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Sep-2002 14:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Anonymous):
Ehm, are you saying anything I did not say? You said that it's not possible for
it to use AmigaOS sources. Exactly what I said.
Secondly, as Ben Hermans said, the parts of AmigaOS*4*, it uses are AmigaInput
and Warp3D.
Something for Everyone : Comment 84 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Sep-2002 14:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anonymous):
Ok.
Something for Everyone : Comment 85 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Sep-2002 14:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anonymous):
You do the same mistake I do :) Reading a comment and reply without reading the
next ones. I do it a lot sadly:(
Something for Everyone : Comment 86 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Justin Smith on 18-Sep-2002 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Thank you, Ben. Everything should be clear now.
Something for Everyone : Comment 87 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 18-Sep-2002 16:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Turrican):
Phew! Turrican steps in to avert danger once again!
Personally, I look forward to evaluating OS 4 when it's ready and not a minute before! ;)
Something for Everyone : Comment 88 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 19-Sep-2002 04:55 GMT
/whois Turrican
Something for Everyone : Comment 89 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Turrican on 19-Sep-2002 06:04 GMT
Rendez vous this XMax and in february 2k3.
Your avenger,
Turrican
Something for Everyone : Comment 90 of 90ANN.lu
Posted by Don Conley on 19-Sep-2002 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Turrican):
...Amiga OS 4 for CSPPC won't be available this XMas.
Nor will be Amiga OS 4 for AmigaOne in february 2003.....
Are you 100% sure? You work for Hyperion?
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