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[News] AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show reportANN.lu
Posted on 22-Sep-2002 09:17 GMT by JohanR98 comments
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A small show report from yesterday's minishow in Sweden has been posted at devicetop.com. Direct link to mini report.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 1 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 22-Sep-2002 07:34 GMT
>but in fact hardware stability is a big problem on the x86 platform nowadays).
Just buy descent parts !! My last x86-hardware-probs after install were years ago.
Oki so the A1 is stable, but thats just the least you could expect, and no selling point.
>was Alan Redhouse from Eyetech, the manufacturers of AmigaOne.
ROTFLOL ROTFLOL
>but he GUESSED that AmigaOS 4 for CyberStorm would be released just before
>the end of the year, and for AmigaOne shortly after.
Another broken promise ! Just a few months ago OS4-A1 this year was "certain".
>was that the AmigaOne's were almost silent, only emitting a vague humming
>from the PSU, even with the sides of the case removed.
Just use a fanless CPU (like C3 or transmeta), add a decent HD ...
Again no big point for the A1 (or any other PPC-system).
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 2 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 22-Sep-2002 08:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Kronos):
Thanks for your input Kronos. It was all very useful, contructive and informative.
.
SlimJim
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 3 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Sep-2002 08:46 GMT
Thanks for the report Johan!
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 4 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 22-Sep-2002 09:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Kronos):
Kronos, although partually I agree with you as I won't expect something less from bPlan's PEGASOS. But why do you always state your negative views with regard to anything Amiga Inc related? Would you have felt the need to make a similar statement if this was posting was PEGASOS related?
Reading through lots of your postings it is very obvious that you mostly spread FUD, often even inaccurate information as facts. Do you truly think that this would do any good for PEGASOS sales, which in general doens't differ too much from the AmigaOne offering?
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 5 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2002 09:26 GMT
Now that was some funny shit!
> The main purpose of the show was ofcourse to show the public that there
> actually is an AmigaOne computer
LOL. Does anyone believe that Mai is selling vapor? (And it's not a computer, it's a motherboard. Oh wait, since we want AmigaOS, maybe we'll only be allowed to buy complete systems... *shudder*)
> Ole-Egil and Justin, two AmigaOne hardware betatesters
LOL. No, Mai tests their hardware internally (by payed employees, imagine that...), there's nothing that a couple of end-users and Eyetech customers can do to affect its development. FFS, Eyetech has no say when it comes to hardware, they're just Mai's customers. If anything, in this case these people are Linux users, maybe Linux "developers" (./configure && make && make install), and HOPEFULLY some time RSN AmigaOS beta testers.
> powered on almost 24/7 since the testers received them without any hardware
> related crashed (this might seem very obvious, but in fact hardware stability
> is a big problem on the x86 platform nowadays).
LOL.
> Eyetech, the manufacturers of AmigaOne.
LOL.
> Also that they (not sure if it was Eyetech or Hyperion) had helped Mai Logic
> (The creators of the chipset, and also the board design on which AmigaOne is
> based) with some issues so that there'll now be some Linux PPC computers
> going onto the market pretty soon.
LOL. ROTFL. *gasping for air* Will anyone ever take anything that this Redhouse character says seriously after things like this? Gee, thanks Eyetech (the fabled manufacturer of... ummm... mouse adapters?) and Hyperion, the games porters, for developing a Linux PPC hardware platform for those cluless morons over at Mai, and those IBM idiots who wouldn't have come up with the POP designs if our hero Alan hadn't come to the rescue.
Come on.
> [Teron PX] interchangeable CPU modules (same kind of connector as Mac CPU
> modules)
Who gives a fuck whether it's a MEGArray socket or a PS2 connector? It doesn't use the Mac CPU module bus protocol.
> He showed some parts of AmigaOS,
Ah, finally something interesting...
> but all this is shown as screenshots on Amiga's OS 4 site. There seemed to be
> some stability issues, but that could be because the OS 4 components were
> patched into OS 3.9.
...oh. Nothing interesting then.
> had a computer running AmigaDE
Huh? AmigaDE is a vapor concept. Maybe it was the DE-player/AA/AACE/whatever-it-is-called-today or the demos from the DE SDK?
> One thing I noticed though, was that the AmigaOne's were almost silent,
LOL. Motherboards don't usually make any noise. In case he's talking about a complete system, then it'd be a shame if the only reason (no need for a HSF) to use an ancient, overpriced, dead-slow CPU was gone.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 6 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 22-Sep-2002 09:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Mike Bouma):
There is one difference between the bPlan/Thendic and Eyetech/Hyperion,
and that is that they have something to show. Showing Linux booting
(sometimes not even that) on a obscure mobo and OS3.9BB3 (sorry but OS4
in gone be PPC not 68k) is even worse than showing nothing at all.
Sure it will please the 100%s, but they gone wait regardless how long
it takes as they won't nothing else than "the_name_OS".
But what about the undecided ? For those it's "move on nothing here" which
is just nice and free advertisment for the other side.
So my advice would be to stop all shows until they got something real to
show (OS4 running on CS_PPC or A1 that is), cause if you appear with a
68k-system in Aachen (for example) bPlan will run out of stock in the 1st
few hours.
I'm spreading FUD ? Well it's for sure that you are spreading hype !
(just compare your last OSNews-article with the current state of development).
Sofar ALL my negative predictions regarding OS4 have been wrong... cause I
was always far to optimistic ! The DE is still going nowhere (I can't buy
anything in any shop around town), the promised update are still missing,
Berniethlon is still hanging in the air, AmigaOSXL is still on sale (wasn't
there a deadline for legal actions ?) and AInc haven't even managed to get
those lousy t-shirts going. Actually there are still some people who paid
the 50 bucks, who haven't had any reply by the Inc.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 7 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2002 09:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
BTW, what's this crap doing at devicetop.com? The "event" was meant to show Mai's mobo, and this report only mentions intent ("DE") in passing.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 8 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 22-Sep-2002 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
"there's nothing that a
couple of end-users and Eyetech customers can do to affect its development. FFS, Eyetech has no say
when it comes to hardware, they're just Mai's customers."
Eyetech are also the European distributors for the Mai boards.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 9 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 22-Sep-2002 09:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Don Cox):
And Hyperion are actually being paid by MAI Logic to rewrite the firmware for the boards. So yes, it's more of an Eyetech/Hyperion thing than most people seem to think.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 10 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 22-Sep-2002 11:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Kronos):
> There is one difference between the bPlan/Thendic and Eyetech/Hyperion,
> and that is that they have something to show.
The AmigaOne has proven to be a stable and mature PPC motherboard. Alot of AmigaOS4 have been shown in a almost finished form.
Nobody is claiming that AmigaOS4 is currently finished. Neither bPlan nor Amiga partners are currently selling PPC computers to consumers. Those are the simple facts.
> Showing Linux booting (sometimes not even that) on a obscure mobo and
> OS3.9BB3 (sorry but OS4 in gone be PPC not 68k) is even worse than showing
> nothing at all.
If you think the AmigaOne is obscure then what the hell do you think the PEGASOS is?
> Sure it will please the 100%s, but they gone wait regardless how long
> it takes as they won't nothing else than "the_name_OS".
From my experience Amiga fans are relatively independent thinkers, I think they will evaluate every option accordingly, inlcuding MorphOS. Note that a majority own alternatives next to their classic Amigas. People like me want a new AmigaOS because we liked many things about the classic OS and would love to see a modern version for more modern hardware.
However one main focuss of critique by many people, including (or especially) MorphOS fans in the past has been the lack of proper memory protection. For instance MorphOS will lack this completely above the kernel level. What I don't quite understand is that exactly the same people who attacked the AmigaDE for this, now all of sudden keep their mouth shut with regard to MorphOS...
> So my advice would be to stop all shows until they got something real to
> show (OS4 running on CS_PPC or A1 that is)
No, I know many people are interested even in unfinished components. I also know most Amigans care more about customizability, instead of having something beautiful to show, at this stage, right now. Most Amigans know that, with good graphic artists involved, the OS will probably look fine out of the box, when it is actually released. Or if you personally don't like the design you will be able change this manually without too much effort.
> I'm spreading FUD ? Well it's for sure that you are spreading hype!
> (just compare your last OSNews-article with the current state of
> development).
Regading AmigaOS4/AmigaOne I have always been very realistic. I always stated that 1) AmigaOS4 is mainly attractive to AmigaOS fans and will probably only become a niche computer system at first. 2) It will not even create a dent in the current OS monopoly. 3) Initially there will be a lack of good quality PPC native software titles.
IMO the above is also true for MorphOS. So what hype? Me telling about the features I like about classic AmigaOS? Or me telling about the new features which will be offered in the new version?
> The DE is still going nowhere (I can't buy anything in any shop around
> town)
You can buy the first Amiga Anywhere Entertainment pack at various online shops. And if you live in Europe you will soon be able to buy it at mainstream shops as well. The AmigaDE itself is of course still heavily under development, as was expected in 2000 when the Tao partnership was announced.
> the promised update are still missing
Not really, but sadly Tao still requires Amiga developers to sign a NDA. Rationally intent/AmigaDE product has far more potential for becoming a worldwide success compared to MorphOS and AmigaOS.
> AInc haven't even managed to get those lousy t-shirts going.
You with your priorities... The voting for the final club name is almost finished. In case you did not know, this name will be printed on the T-shirts and BTW IMO the logo looks really cool.
> Actually there are still some people who paid
> the 50 bucks, who haven't had any reply by the Inc.
Who? That would be very strange as they should have gotten an automatic conformation for their purchase.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 11 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 22-Sep-2002 11:30 GMT
I really don't understand what the FUD spreaders think to gain...
Stupid remarks of MAI designing hardware. Tao creating the foundation for AmigaDE. It all sounds so very childish... IMO it should be about provided solutions and oppertunities, who cares about Hyperion developing AmigaOS4 if they can deliver a satisfying product?
Isn't this what partnerships is all about. If IBM, HP or Dell decide to form partnerships with with bPlan, I think we should congratulate bPlan for this instead of attacking them. If Amiga can take advantage of a Microsoft partnership, the biggest IT company on earth, why should they be attacked for this? All this FUD is only weakening the ENTIRE community. This irrational behaviour makes all of us look more like retards and zealots to the minds of outsiders, nomatter if you are a MorphOS supporter, AmigaDE supporter or AmigaOS4 supporter!
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 12 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 22-Sep-2002 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Mike Bouma):
Yes both boards are "obscure" and running Linux on them is boring.
Running a new OS on them is something different.
Do you really that what was shown was "a lot of OS4 " ? It's just
some lousy add-ons, but the REAL OS4 (ExecSG/Petunia on legacy-free
PPC-HW) is still nowhere to be seen. Thats also why I think that
you are spreading hype with your "making good procress" articels.
So I can buy the GamePack_1 in some odd online-stores ?
Thats not the way there are gone reach a broader market, and considering
that it consist out of (near)100% 3rd-party SW, I would guess that their
share per sold copy is very low. Kepping AInc afloat on actual sales
would require thousands of sold copies per month.
DE-enabled devices will be in the store in just a few weeks/months ?
That what we have been told for the last 2 years, and I don't see what
should be different this time.
Let's turn back the clock one year:
H&P annonced AmigaOSXL and the (vocal part of the) community started
calling it a dead product, since A1/OS4 would be out real soon (tm).S[/color][/size]
What happened later in Cologne ? Crouds gathering around the H&P-booth
and a lot of them buying AmigaOSXL. Rumour says the abput 1700 copies
were sold (~10% of the active Amiga-users), and if it had never gone
into legal trouble it may have sold twice as much.
What will happen this year in Aachen when bPlan sell a finished product,
while Eyetech/Hyperion have only beta (or alpha) stuff to show ?
A minority of the community is allready fixated on the official one, and
will wait and wait and wait.... while the majority (you missunderstood
me on that one) will just buy whats there !
Looking at the current state of affairs this will probraly be Pegasos/
MorphOS and maybe even AmithlonXL, but no A1(+OS4) and no Berniethlon.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 13 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 22-Sep-2002 11:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Kronos):
Sorry forget this one:
Only a few days a few "members" complained about the lack of
notification on Amiga-News.de, and it seems that these has
either payed by Paypal or through their local dealer.
The whole coupon-scheme has been lousey prepared, just remember
all the updates they needed to allow it to be used for OS4-only,
with Paypal, through dealers and the extensions.
Add to the fact that they start talking about a t-shirt, without
a idee on the design, or who is gone make that design, and the
outright funny "Team-Amiga" problems.
Simply unprofessional.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 14 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Sep-2002 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Mike Bouma):
The AmigaOne has proven to be a stable and mature PPC motherboard. Alot of AmigaOS4 have been shown in a almost finished form.
--
Wait:)
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 15 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Sep-2002 12:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Damn, the quote should be:
"The AmigaOne has proven to be a stable and mature PPC motherboard."
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 16 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by JohanR on 22-Sep-2002 12:11 GMT
if anyone cares I also went to the Pegasos show today, but judging from the reception of this minireport I think I'd rather not write another one.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 17 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 22-Sep-2002 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (JohanR):
Couldn't attend this - had to get on the train late saturday evening. Was it any good? As well attended as the event on saturday? Don't people age picking on your report, but on what was said (for some obscure reason). Don't let them get to you!
.
SlimJim
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 18 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 22-Sep-2002 12:36 GMT
(
I also made an attempt of a show report (before I read this one!) over at amiga.org:
http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1062
)
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 19 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 22-Sep-2002 12:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Mike Bouma):
Could it be Mike, people are rebelling from having fluff pieces shove in their faces for years? All those promises, and there is what to show for it? Oh yeah, more Mike's fluff pieces that scream dotcom and little else. As far as DEad, perhaps you should reread a post on Moo:
http://flyingmice.com/squid/moobunny/amiga/messages/74837.shtml
dammy
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 20 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2002 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Mike Bouma):
>But why do you always state your negative views with regard to anything
>Amiga Inc related?
Mike,
Having read Kronos' comments as well over the past few months, I have rarely seen anything significantly mistaken. He is certainly very negative, but I would encourage you to post a few examples of sheer FUD on his part. For instance, his comments in this thread seem quite valid. People may not like hearing it, but that doesn't change the fact that they are valid comments.
Look, I wouldn't go as far as blaming you of hype, but whereas Kronos looks at issues a little pessimistically (I'm tempted to say realistically, though), you probably have to admit yourself that you are quite the optimist. Amiga Inc. has let so many people down with their a) initial riding on a high horse and claiming to be so much better than previous owners b) breaking promises and downright giving misguiding statements (e.g. AOne/OS4 last spring vs. Eyetech statements last fall) c) failed to or acknowledge or take responsibility of these broken promises, or taken quite a of time prior to doing so.
With this history in mind, many people are becoming quite annoyed by the way Amiga Inc. and perhaps some of their partners are given credit for stuff that really is someone elses doing. For instance, people often talk of the current AmigaDE as if it really wouldn't be 99% TAO's but that its an Amiga product. Amiga may add value to it (already some), but hey, credit where credit is due. AmigaOne and MAI are another example of that. I know Eyetech are a partner in the project in some sense, but far from manufacturers...
People are also becoming annoyed by the constant delays and the way nobody seems to want to take responsibility for it, or acknowledge it. For instance, AmigaOS 4.0 has been delayed for ages and still a lot of fans flame those who dare to question the latest estimates coming from the top. If someone does point out that this stuff is so and so late, they are nay-sayers, whiners and whatever. And yet Kronos is right. It was only a few short months ago when OS 4 was still due out in May. And prior to that November 2001, prior to that summer 2001...
And now there is talk it won't definitely make the latest Christmas deadline, not on AmigaOne anyway. It might make it, I'm not saying I have insight, but lets face it - we are already in September and even if we take into consideration the original timeline and consider 4.2 as 4.0, it is still terribly late - even for the original 4.2 announcement. And even if one can excuse the delays, the way their PR has handled them over the years is not as easy to forgive (again, e.g. the AOne/OS4 Amiga vs. Eyetech statements last year)
Amiga Inc. has had almost three years to prove themselves. They were given every chance by the community. They had a clean slate. People took their might words at face value. And time and time again they have failed to deliver or to really take responsibility of their failures. At least Bill McEwen finally made a moer sincere apology at AmiWest this year, but I guess he had to sooner or later after repeating the same mantras at shows year after year.
The current lack of trust is, unfortunately, well earned by them.
Comments of people like Kronos - and mine - are more reflective of this, I believe, than any attempts by the competition to win them over. In fact, if Thendic are winning people over, they are doing so because they deliver and are willing to go to people and show their product - not because of some evil brainwashing or years of hype.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 21 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2002 13:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
Hyperion probably suspending work on OS 4.0 to code the PPC boot thingy .... They were getting paid for it after all ..
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 22 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 22-Sep-2002 13:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Mike Bouma):
Don't worry about it. If you haven't noticed, ANN is well known for the many people who like to show off their colourful personalities in public.
/Björn
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 23 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by anon on 22-Sep-2002 14:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Björn Hagström):
Like this buoma guy? "AmigaDE is based on amigaos/api and all" At least he seems to be a funny guy.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 24 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by anarchic_teapot on 22-Sep-2002 16:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
" there's nothing that a couple of end- users and Eyetech customers can do to affect its development. FFS, Eyetech has no say when it comes to hardware, they're just Mai's customers."
Another case of a blinkered and bitter AC (Anonymous Coward, as Slashdot calls them) trying to twist reality to suit his/her/its view of how things should be.
A betatester is not an end user, dummy. And incidentally, you're talking arrant nonsense on every single 'point' made in the above drivel.
Bo-ring.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 25 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 22-Sep-2002 17:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
> Having read Kronos' comments as well over the past few months
Believe me, you can read FUD from Kronos everywhere. ANN, Amiga.org and amiga-news.de Search a little and thy should find.
The sad part is that such FUD campaigns (not by Kronos, I believe) have been going on since day *one* when Amiga's remainings were bought. You don't have an idea how much these FUD campaigns have actually hurt Amiga's business. Although the Amiga community has done far more good than bad in general, but had everyone worked together closely, we would already have had marvelous products available ages ago and as a result a much stronger community.
Sadly there are too many egos within the community all knowing what is best to do as a captain, but when it comes down to it mostly spread FUD regarding competitors and making the Amiga community only weaker than it already is.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 26 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 22-Sep-2002 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (anon):
Thank you for showing your particularly colourful personality.
/Björn
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 27 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 22-Sep-2002 18:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Mike Bouma):
"FUD" means spreading fear uncertanty doubt about a competitors product.
Problem is AInc doesn't have any (real) products.
So it was us sceptics that forced McBill&Co to the build a hot air castle
with their intent-OS ? And it was us who brought that down ?
Hint: If AInc had spoken/negotiated with TAO before ....
So it was us who forced them Amino-clowns to spread outright lies about the
state of A1-escena and OS4-inhouse ? And it was us who forced them to sell
the party-pack with the "on schedule and rocking" promise ?
It was also us (actually me alone) who told Sharp to drop AInc in favour for
a Linus/QT-based solution ?
I personally wrote all the execups where McBill drippeld about 3000 DE-developers,
smart-phone deals and so on !
Oh and I also sneaked into H&P's computer, making sure that all licence fees
were transfered to my bank account.
>Sadly there are too many egos within the community all knowing what is best
>to do as a captain, but when it comes down to it mostly spread FUD regarding
>competitors and making the Amiga community only weaker than it already is.
Yeap, and now look who has been doing just that day in day out for the last year.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 28 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 22-Sep-2002 18:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Kronos):
To make that clear:
In allmost three years AInc has failed on all their promises, and has spread
somuch BS about stuff that was supposed to be out soon that I've lost all
my respect for them, and the only way they can get it back is by actually
delivering something more than just rebadged 3rd party 2nd grade SW.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 29 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 22-Sep-2002 18:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Kronos):
> Yes both boards are "obscure"
If you would have used the word obscure with regard to the PEGASOS as well, then I would not have had any trouble with you stating this each time you mention the AmigaOne. Personally I would prefer terms like unknown or niche targeted products. "Obscure" is viewed by many as negative term.
> and running Linux on them is boring.
Of course AmigaOS4 is far more important than running only Linux, but Linux has a great value testing and easy access to many applications (inlcuding UAE) as well.
> Do you really that what was shown was "a lot of OS4 "?
Yes Intuition, Reaction, AHI+drivers, AmiDock, Menus, Roadshow, PPCBoot, MediaToolBox and most importantly at this point, a complete feature list.
> It's just some lousy add-ons, but the REAL OS4 (ExecSG/Petunia on legacy-free
> PPC-HW) is still nowhere to be seen.
ExecSG has only just been completed, believe me without things like Intuition running on top people will not see anything much more exciting than a Linux kernel booting. Regarding Petunia there is information available.
Somehow I have the feeling that when everything you *claim* you would like to see with regard to AmigaOS4 you will still find something else to whine about.
> Thats also why I think that you are spreading hype with your "making good
> procress" articels.
Want it or not, against all odds they are actually making excellent progress.
> So I can buy the GamePack_1 in some odd online-stores?
It is a start, mind you that the PEGASOS/MorphOS is still nowhere available to ordinary consumers.
> Kepping AInc afloat on actual sales would require thousands of sold copies
> per month.
I agree that pre-loaded deals are essential and this will happen pretty soon when for instance the Sendo phone is launched.
> DE-enabled devices will be in the store in just a few weeks/months?
> That what we have been told for the last 2 years, and I don't see what
> should be different this time.
It is as 9/11 and the deepest dip in the Tech market are now behind us, so 3rd party device manufacturers will feel more confident to actually release their products. Note that many products have been delayed or cancelled, not only Amiga Inc related projects.
> Let's turn back the clock one year: H&P annonced AmigaOSXL and the (vocal
> part of the) community started calling it a dead product
Not me http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1356
Although it does worry me when I hear that Amiga Inc nor Bernie ever received *any* penny for the sales. However this something for Amiga Inc and Bernie to worry about, I still adivse people to check out this package as I believe it could be of interest and value to fellow AmigaOS fans.
> and if it had never gone into legal trouble it may have sold twice as much.
You are being prejudiced with regard to who's fault this is.
> What will happen this year in Aachen when bPlan sell a finished product,
> while Eyetech/Hyperion have only beta (or alpha) stuff to show?
They may sell alot more PEGASOS boards and if so more power to them!
> A minority of the community is allready fixated on the official one, and
> will wait and wait and wait.... while the majority (you missunderstood
> me on that one) will just buy whats there!
The what are you worrying about? Must everyone do what in your opinion the majority will do? For your information the majority is satisfied with Windows computers.
> Looking at the current state of affairs this will probraly be Pegasos/
> MorphOS and maybe even AmithlonXL, but no A1(+OS4) and no Berniethlon.
That is your opinion, I don't share your views.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 30 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 22-Sep-2002 18:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Kronos):
> [...] I've lost all
> my respect for them, and the only way they can get it back is by actually
> delivering something more than just rebadged 3rd party 2nd grade SW.
...Which of course will never happen, as no matter what they release you will call it '3rd party 2nd grade software'. Must be nice to have such a secure position to look down on people from.
Have you apologized yet to Bill Panagouleas for maliciously starting to shout "hoax! hoax!" at the top of your lungs at his Wild Flyer announcement without even bothering to consider the most obvious reason for him writing SharkPPC (i.e a typo)?
.
SlimJim
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 31 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 22-Sep-2002 18:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Kronos):
> "FUD" means spreading fear uncertanty doubt about a competitors product.
Yes and you can find *thousands* of such posting written by *you* across the internet alone.
> Problem is AInc doesn't have any (real) products.
Sure Development Kit together with downloadable enhancements, AmigaOS 3.9, Amiga Anywhere Entertainment Pack #1 and AmigaOS XL are products. A good start is half the work however, sadly people within the community started spreading huge FUD campaign with regard to all above named products. Believe me, without even seeing AmigaOS 3.9 for example the internet was already flooded with FUD as AmigaOS 3.9 would just be AmigaOS 3.1 with only some unstable crashing aminet ultilities added and such.
> So it was us sceptics that forced McBill&Co to the build a hot air castle
> with their intent-OS?
Sure, they have also made incredible mistakes and blunders. But not as many and as severe as for example all the companies who bankrupted due to the internet bubble and creative book-keeping. IMO it is more due to an American way of doing business (too much hype) than anything else. Luckily, they are learning however.
> So it was us who forced them Amino-clowns to spread outright lies about the
> state of A1-escena and OS4-inhouse?
I don't know the complete background story with regard to this one. However IMO Fleecy in general is trust worthy, however it is nothing but logical that you want people to see your company having everything under control.
> It was also us (actually me alone) who told Sharp to drop AInc in favour for
> a Linus/QT-based solution?
Sharp did not drop intent support, only it was decided that intent wasn't mature enough initially ship with the Zaurus.
> I personally wrote all the execups where McBill drippeld about 3000 DE
> developers
There have been 3000 developers registered with at Amigadev.net Over 15000 if you include people who own a Tao SDK.
> Oh and I also sneaked into H&P's computer, making sure that all licence fees
> were transfered to my bank account.
That explains alot. ;)
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 32 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 22-Sep-2002 20:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Mike Bouma):
Posted by Mike Bouma (62.131.178.212) on 22-Sep-2002 20:51:40
>In Reply to Comment 27:
>> "FUD" means spreading fear uncertanty doubt about a competitors product.
>Yes and you can find *thousands* of such posting written by *you* across the
> internet alone.
Versus your none stop cheerleading? I wasn't particulary fond of listening to the cheerleaders in high school (watching them was a different matter;) at pep rallies, I'm even less incline to cut slack when you get those puff articles posted as supposedly meaningful article. Hate to bust your bubble, yet again, but Amino/Amiga have squandered just about everything possible over the past three years. Their VC, their reputation, and the Amiga's future.
Three weeks ago, they threatened all hell would break loose with legal actions. What did we see? AmithlonXL is getting released while Berniethlon is still in limbo. W00t! Are we suppost to be impressed yet?
Then there is DEad. Funny you haven't commented on this link yet Mike:
http://flyingmice.com/squid/moobunny/amiga/messages/74837.shtml
Why is Tao saying, "Forget Amiga!"? Doesn't sound like they are too impressed. Guess it goes to show me that when someone told me that Tao Group were straight shooters, I should have believed him. Pity they got their name soiled by being associated with Amino/Amiga, but alteast more people know their name now.
Dammy
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 33 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 22-Sep-2002 20:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (dammy):
Not to get in the way between you, Kronos and Mike, but you do realize that the link you gave refers to a post at Moobunny where a guy refers to "some german amiga user" having contacted TAO and getting some reply.
In short: You are referring to hearsay of hearsay. And on Moobunny of all places. Sorry to burst *your* bubble, but that's not a argumentative source I would rely too much on in the future if I were you...
.
SlimJim
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 34 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 22-Sep-2002 22:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (SlimJim):
Sure it's hearsay. I would figure that the great DEad wonkmeister could come up with testimonals that are saying the opposite. Guess what, he isn't. I've got a feeling the hearsay was and is right on the money, Tao is moving on. Further indecations is when Tao released that SDK, for the cost of a magazine, it's looking else where for "value added content."
dammy
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 35 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2002 22:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (SlimJim):
Yet the Moobunny posting has a point, now doesn't it? We can waste our time discussing what someone might have said at TAO about Amiga, but far more significant is the fact that while Amiga talks, the rest of the world walks. For instance, Java is everywhere and doing the things Amiga has promised for so long - and not only on the desktop or server where Java has ruled for a number of years already, but on the very market Amiga were set to conquer...
While Amiga still only talks of them shipping on an obscure phone manufacturer Sendo's device, the largest phone manufacturer in the world, Nokia, has been shipping Java on their Communicators for well over a year. And since this spring, Java is standard on their smartphones AND on some of the cheaper models, including the mass-market teenage model 3410, that have been readily available for three months already. And do take a look at future models, Java is standard on nearly all of them... These are not JUST expensive high-end or tech-type models. These are phones for the regular people.
And Nokia isn't alone. Siemens has phones such as SL 45i out there with Java standard. A quick peek at Sony-Ericsson's future catalog reveals Java as well. European phone operators are selling Java games to phones via the Internet. Today. Have been doing so for months already. Developer material is readily available for free. Nokia will even send you it on CD-ROM at no cost, should a download prove too troublesome. Java is also a standard feature on a number of PDAs. I believe even Palm has it these days.
Even native Symbian looks a far more lucrative market than this Amiga's run anywhere pipe-dream that runs on... well... just about nothing, really. On Linux and Windows desktops and perhaps on WindowsCE PDAs if you have Amiga's proprietary packaging software that they are yet to release to the public.
You still can't even download most of the content from amiga-anywhere.com to your WindowsCE PDA. So, while Amiga Anywhere runs ONLY on Windows and Linux desktops and a limited Entertainment Pack for WindowsCE (as far the public is concerned), Java is doing that and about a gazillion of other devices with open development opportunities too - and not tomorrow, not the day after, but today after having done so for years already.
So, do tell me, what is the killer application or feature that will make AmigaDE the winner over Java and associated technologies? Where is the proof of excellence of this technology, why should we root for it instead of Java? And even if we do acknowledge the cleverness of TAO's technology (and I do), and they do seem to be making inroads with it in some embedded fields - and good luck to them, where exactly does Amiga fit in? Why would I want to develop for Amiga instead of intent, if for some reason, I'd choose intent over Java?
Somebody, give me one good reason to choose AmigaDE or Anywhere over Java. And before anyone lectures me about digital oceans and the converging home, do educate yourself about the stuff that is happening around Java. There is plenty of digital convergence going on there, with the novel difference being that much of the technology is available today. java.sun.com is a good place to start.
Everybody has Java. Hell, even Amiga Anywhere has Java.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 36 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Sep-2002 23:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
Basically agreeing to Amiga Inc's terms for AmigaDE is the licensing equivalent of buying your own KY, pulling your own pants down and bending over voluntarily. If you look back to 2001 when AInc still /really/ thought this might fly they were describing the AMI situation as a temporary thing. Just some re-assurance to customers, a solution for freeware developers was right around the corner...
They figured on working the computer software industry just like the record industry pimps, but unfortunately while forming a band and signing your life away to Sony doesn't even require high school education, most decent software developers are a little smarter. So what you see on AmigaDE is what people wrote in their bedrooms in their spare time. Ten years ago they'd have sent it to a magazine and been pleased to get their name on the cover of CVG or whatever.
Here's what a record deal boils down to. Anyone who got as far as reading the SDA (I sure hope you never signed it) will recognise this:
* We control the channel. You communicate with the channel only through us
* We decide what ships and what doesn't. We decide the price. We decide when it's released. If you don't like it, tough.
* We take a percentage of everything. Everything.
* We may have some other costs, we'll take them out of your half.
* The fans are your problem. They love it? Tell 'em to buy more. They hate it? Tell 'em you'll do better next time.
* The law requires a thing called "consideration", don't worry about what that is, but we'll make some attempt to sell your product. Ain't that nice?
* This is a legally binding contract that you don't understand. In theory a lawyer should read it, but you trust us right? Sign here.
... it's not temporary. The whole thing is a disaster. Sendo agreed to ship it? Sure, Sendo would agree to sell the Z100 with a life size inflatable Godzilla if it would get them 5cm of column space in the right magazines. It's the Daikatana of mobile phones. Everyone remembers hearing about it a few years ago, and they can't wait for the reviews, but they're not going to actually BUY it.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 37 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 23-Sep-2002 00:40 GMT
I find it interesting that so many negative comments are made by Anonymous users. At least Kronos and a few others are brave enough to use their own aliases.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 38 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 23-Sep-2002 01:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Mike Bouma):
@Mike
I think that is enough !
If you really think I wrote "thousands" of wrong comments with FUD in it,
than it should be damn easy for you to post a few links to them.
You no comments that have been proven wrong by fact.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 39 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 23-Sep-2002 01:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Kronos):
You and could you please stop the Sep.11 and dotcom BS ?
Other companies have suffered the same, and still managed to get something going,
and those who haven't would have fallen at the next crisis anyway.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 40 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Sep-2002 01:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (redfox):
>I find it interesting that so many negative comments are made by Anonymous
>users. At least Kronos and a few others are brave enough to use their own
>aliases.
I find it interesting that so many people choose to take issue with anonymous expression, rather than actually address the issues and argumentation posted by said anonymous. And as if an alias were any better than being anonymous, as long as your alias is a pretty obscure one.
As long as we are discussing issues, I doubt the name of the poster has got much to do with it. The substance, well, that is something we should debate. Interesting arguments have been made about about AmigaDE's target market. Please comment.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 41 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 23-Sep-2002 04:10 GMT
> Other companies have suffered the same, and still managed to get something
> going
At every time of crisis many projects are being cancelled and investors back away, is that so difficult to understand. The dip in the Tech market has had a significant impact on Amiga's bunsiness.
Regarding the Moobunny posting, so much nonesense has been (is being) said there (even by many anonymous cowards) that IMO it isn't even worth a reply. But since you are so focussed on this, I can conform that Francis Charig, the CEO of Tao has always kindly and openly responded to my emails. (However, he has literally stated in emails to me, that he thinks alot of crap is being written at Moobunny).
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 42 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by anarchic_teapot on 23-Sep-2002 04:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Mike Bouma):
Mike Bouma:
>> Yes both boards are "obscure"
> If you would have used the word obscure with regard to the PEGASOS as well,
> then I would not have had any trouble with you stating this each time you
> mention the AmigaOne. Personally I would prefer terms like unknown or
> niche targeted products. "Obscure" is viewed by many as negative term.
What certainly upsets the Pegasos fan here is that the name "Amiga" is hardly obscure, as millions of people are already familiar with it from the Classic era. It's called 'goodwill', and it's something a brand-new comany with brand-new hardware - e.g. bPlan - _doesn't_ have. So yes, the Pegasos is, objectively, obscure; the AmigaOne, because it is called Amiga, rather less so.
>> and running Linux on them is boring.
> Of course AmigaOS4 is far more important than running only Linux
That's our POV. The Linux community appears to have a different view of this, which is good news for everyone as it should help to bring the prices of both boards down (economics of scale etc etc)
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 43 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 23-Sep-2002 06:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (anarchic_teapot):
> That's our POV. The Linux community appears to have a different view of
> this, which is good news for everyone as it should help to bring the prices
> of both boards down (economics of scale etc etc)
Yes, hopefully you are right. :)
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 44 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 23-Sep-2002 06:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Kronos):
> You no comments that have been proven wrong by fact.
FUD has a much wider definition than solely spreading inaccurate information, spreading repetive biased opinions can easily considered as FUD as well, however here are some very recent quote's from you, information spread by you as facts:
"Der neue AOne (A1.5) ist ein Standard-ATX-Board an dem man
mittels einer PCI-Karte einen A1200 anschliessen kann (wird
IMHO aber nie realisiert werden)."
"Fakt ist das der Pegasos, wenn er tatsächlich für 650Euro
in den Handel kommt, um ca. 130 Euro billiger ist als A1+
AOS4"
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 45 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by anarchic_teapot on 23-Sep-2002 06:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Kronos):
Kronos:
"You no comments that have been proven wrong by fact."
Tee-hee. I remember you stating quite clearly that the PCI slot next to the AGP slot on an AmigaOne board couldn't be used at the same time for a second graphics output.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 46 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 23-Sep-2002 06:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Mike Bouma):
"Der neue AOne (A1.5) ist ein Standard-ATX-Board an dem man mittels einer PCI-Karte einen A1200 anschliessen kann (wird IMHO aber nie realisiert werden)."
Hmm, rougly translated : "The AOne is a standard ATX board that can be connected to an A1200 with the help of a PCI card"
Is that an incorrect translation? If not, then isn't it correct that AInc/Hyperion/whomever announced that such a PCI card was indeed in developement?
/Björn
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 47 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 23-Sep-2002 06:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (anarchic_teapot):
He did. And it is wrong.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 48 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 23-Sep-2002 07:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Björn Hagström):
Bjorn, the FUD part was:
> "(wird IMHO aber nie realisiert werden)."
Translated: (But will never be realised IMO.)
A more experience FUD spreader combines truths with biased opinions or often twists half-truths into a negative daylight. You can easily apply this to any company including bPlan, Hyperion, IBM, Amiga, Elbox, etc, etc.
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 49 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 23-Sep-2002 07:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Mike Bouma):
True, I instinctivly ignored that part as anything with an IMHO attached to it cannot be categorized as fact, although I do see the point your'e making.
And thanks for clearing up the issue about the PCI card, there might me a bunch of people that is very interrested in such a card. (Which is what I was interrested in, not some trolls personal problems ;)
/Björn
AONE Gothenburg Fall Event show report : Comment 50 of 98ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 23-Sep-2002 07:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (dammy):
@ dammy
You are replying saying "sure this is hearsay" and then go on saying "that I have a feeling" this rumor is true. Ok. Very unbiased, I must say. If you are satisfied in basing your arguments on such grounds, good for you - you can never be wrong.
.
SlimJim
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