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[News] News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org)ANN.lu
Posted on 22-Sep-2002 16:55 GMT by 120 comments
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News mentioned on the event (complements the other show report below) From www.amiga.org:

PPCBoot by Hyperion is finished and handed out to existing (35-40 or so) betatesters - seen working for the first time on the event (I saw an ATI Radeon start screen among others...)

With this done, the rest of the developerboards (a couple of hundred) can now be shipped to developers. Allow some two weeks to make sure the betatesters don't find any obvious problems.

PPCboot apparantly contains some pretty nifty features by the Frieden brothers (but I leave that report to those there with better technical knowledge (and memory!) than me). PPCBoot was made due to an outside (in the meaning 'outside Amiga market') contract, creating some nice revenue for Hyperion.

Apart from the boot process being cumbersome (since PPCBoot didn't exist), according to Alan no AOne hardware problems whatsoever have been reported by the betatesters since may this year.

Alan Redhouse presented the AOne XE with replacable CPU and gave some very interesting numbers (which I leave to him to put on the web - he didn't want us to quote him on those). This card looks very promising anyways.

Due to plenty of requests from Amigans, Eyetech have changed their minds and will sell the AOne G3-SE before AOS4 is available - but as such including the licence to later get the OS (after all it wouldn't be an AOne without the OS and the ROM). The G3-SE will hopefully ship before christmas, and the -XE slightly after christmas. AOS4 for CyberstormPPC will come about around the same time, followed by the version for AOne probably after christmas (it should be noted that this was Alan's approximations - as I recall them - and not anything official from Hyperion).

AOS4 was presented by Gunne Steen of GGS-Data. He received a beta version from Hyperion for this particular presentation. It ran on his Cyberstorm PPC and he loaded modules on top of his OS3.9 installation, such as Intuition.library (giving new menus and configurability) and layers.library. He also showed some special effects modules like one that clipped all windows/pointers/graphics when they moved within an inch of the edge of the screen (perhaps not that useful, but interesting as an example of what's possible) All windows can be iconified and placed on the WB desktop. The Media Toolbox does indeed seem to be a very powerful program.

According to Stefan Burström, who was at the show, MUI will be included in OS4, but initially locked in a configuration that matches the look of Reaction. If you have a keyfile it will be changeable as usual of course.

Stefan Burström held a little (improvised) speech on IBrowse 2.3. This version is (as we knew) mainly a bugfix for everything that was wrong in 2.2 and is as such a vast improvement. However new features such as CSS will not be implemented until IBrowse 3.0, which is going to be PPC native. IB2.3 is free for registered users of 2.2.

There were plenty of people on the event. According to one of the people arranging the show, they calclulated some 200 amigans showing up for the few hours the event took place. There were people of every age, race, nationality and gender there, and generally a nice atmopsphere (albeit somewhat crowded..) Thanks to the enthusiasts arranging this, you did a darn good job!

News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 101 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 25-Sep-2002 09:50 GMT
to Troels: Ah, I thought you said you didn't attend on Sunday.. ok
that's different. Yes it's possible to hang the system with some
versions of IFX at least.
I don't know enough about the inner workings to tell if MorphOS itself
is locked, or whether it's just the Amiga emulation box. Not that any
of that matters in practice: the "system", as you see it, is still
dead.
This can't be avoided completely if you want compatibility with
Amiga(tm) programs.
MorphOS currently offers protection of unused memory and the null
page. It's also possible for MorphOS native apps to protect other
memory. This sounds similar to what has been announced about AOS4
(I'm not sure how much of that is actually implemented though). It's
far from useless, since it increases the possibility to detect bugs a
lot. Writes to the null page are common, also you have a high chance
to detect "random" writes, as well as a good chance to detect buffer
overruns (since you might very well run into free memory, somewhat
depending on how the memory allocation scheme works).
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 102 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 25-Sep-2002 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Ole-Egil):
to Ole-Egil:
The ability to make the system hang is actually part of the
specification. Eg if we want programs like IFX to run, we have to
accept that it's possible for IFX to make the system hang.
It's like if you're making a balloon and the specification says it
should be a hydrogen balloon. Then there will be a risk of explosion
since hydrogen is highly explosive. You can design the balloon to
reduce this risk, but you really can't avoid it altogether except by
breaking the specifications (using helium instead). In this case,
Amiga(tm) applications are like hydrogen: They might explode. It won't
kill anyone though so if you like Amiga(tm) applications then it's
probably worth it.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 103 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 25-Sep-2002 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Ole-Egil):
This might provide some clues to you: http://www.morphos.de/a-box.php3
/Björn
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 104 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Sep-2002 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Ole-Egil):
Your only point is that you have no valid points:)
MorphOS itself didn't crash, that's for sure. What
crashed is the A/Box, the AmigaOS API wrapper/emulator.
The AmigaOS API is *NOT* ready for full memory protection.
There always will be a naughty app that will bring it down.
The same is valid for OS4. *FULL* mem prot is NOT possible.
eg. it would kill the *MSGPort system.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 105 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Sep-2002 10:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Ole-Egil):
Well, it's a little exageration to say that no app can crash Unix or NT. All software has bugs and limitations. It would be true to say that if the OS crashes it is almost always an OS bug or operator error (e.g. not setting ulimits) and these should be investigated before blaming application software.
The description of the problem in this case mentions a frozen console, now any experienced Unix hacker knows that the UI doesn't have to be a core part of the OS and it may be (I'm no MorphOS fan) that MorphOS needs a magic key sequence or something to "let you out" if an app crash destroys the AmigaOS emulation environment. So perhaps (just perhaps) MorphOS was still fine, but the users present did not know how to recover from the emulated Amiga crashing...
No, it doesn't sound very likely.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 106 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 25-Sep-2002 11:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Troels E):
>>we didn't wan't to wait for the real presentation to begin
why?
Is it because you will have to wait six months to see the equilivant on your amiga one???
Or were u just too hung over?? ;P
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 107 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Linus G on 25-Sep-2002 12:15 GMT
This is all the information I can find about MorhpOS. That
really can´t be enough for any end user to even consider buying it.
"
High Super/Usermode switch speed
Low interrupt latency
IntThreads and Int PCode abstraction
Memory protection
Symmetrical multi processing (SMP)
Task/Thread and Clan/Chief model
Resource tracking
Asynchronous message system
Virtual memory (optional)
Recursive Memory Management
Distributed computing
No access to Kernel structures
Clean design with an elegant API
Micro/pico kernel mixture
"
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 108 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Sep-2002 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Ole-Egil):
>I mean, during all these years of development of MOS one would think an
>application wouldn't be allowed to lock up the whole system, right?
Hey, that's what Amiga is all about! :-)
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 109 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 25-Sep-2002 14:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Linus G):
If you consider yourself an end user, you shouldn't consider buying
the Pegasos yet. That's why it's only sold as Betatester at this time.
Yes, of course a detailed feature list would be nice, but is it really
of any use if we all know it can be changed because things are still
in development? I would expect more information to be available quite
soon, but I don't see the need for a big rush.
To anonymous comment 105: I don't know, but I see no reason why this
shouldn't be possible. It's possible to protect memory belonging to a
morphos native application, and as far as I know it should be possible
to make a shell or a desktop that doesn't rely on communication with
Amiga(tm) apps through nonprotected memory. Whether this would make
any sense is another matter though, since I'm not sure what you would
gain at this point.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 110 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Sep-2002 16:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Ole-Egil):
"who has used Windows NT knows that an application can NOT crash the whole OS"
WRONG. See here: http://zappadoodle.com/
Sorry I could not resist ;)
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 111 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Sep-2002 17:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Ole-Egil):
Everone who has used Windows NT knows that an application can NOT crash the whole OS.
--
BS... Do you want me to start on how many times did I manage to crash 2k
and with which programs? I even managed to crash the OS itself once...
I guess you never saw the niiice NT bluescreen, did you?
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 112 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Sep-2002 19:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Johan Rönnblom):
Well if the claim is true that MorphOS will be released soon there shouldnt be too much that will change, right? Either it is almost ready or it is not.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 113 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Sep-2002 19:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Btw, most bluescreen crashes are caused by faulty hardware.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 114 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Sep-2002 19:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Anonymous):
Though i do remember one funny incident ... w2k service pack1 ... when you ran a certain w98 program it would somehow remove the drive c: from the sytem ...
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 115 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 25-Sep-2002 19:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Anonymous):
Well you have a convincing argument, but I have two to counter. ;)
First, what's wrong with a little surprise?
Second, it's not just about development. Some non-necessary stuff is
subject to licensing and obviously you don't want to tell everybody
that something will be included until you have the license negotiated,
agreed and properly signed. I mean, most companies would not do
something like that, at least. ;)
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 116 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Sep-2002 19:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Johan Rönnblom):
Keep the extras as a surprise but to hide the basics is suspicious. Its simply too expensive for a complete surprise package.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 117 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 26-Sep-2002 08:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Anonymous):
"Btw, most bluescreen crashes are caused by faulty hardware."
Actually, that's only half of the truth. A lot of them are also bad drivers, who for some reason insist on taking down the system due to bad interrupts or something. It's not even remotely difficult to crash NT 4 and later by inserting a bad driver or hardware into the system. But an application would need to do something really bad in NT to actually freeze up the whole computer.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 118 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 26-Sep-2002 09:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Anonymous):
It wasn't a hardware prob, cause it was fixed when I reinstalled Win.
I really can't figure out what the prob was.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 119 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 26-Sep-2002 09:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Anonymous):
Basically it has all the features you can expect from an up to date AmigaOS
clone. It quite close to the features mentioned about OS4.
News from AmiGbg Fall event (from Amga.org) : Comment 120 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 26-Sep-2002 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Ole-Egil):
Once I tried doing nasty stuff to crash it, and I quite managed it...
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