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[Rant] let us end the fud once and for all.ANN.lu
Posted on 11-Oct-2002 18:25 GMT by reflect108 comments
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Are you tired of seeing the same old arguments beeing spewed from one side unto the next, tired of seeing personal views presented as facts? The ongoing flamewar between MOS and OS4 is making alot of people tired. Now there's a list of (what I hope is) facts up here, written by Digby. If you would like to contribute to this list, please mail the maintainer and add links so that the 'facts' can be easily verified.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 1 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by L8-X on 11-Oct-2002 16:51 GMT
Fed up isn`t the word matey.......
There will be *NO* chance of morphos & OS4 zealots agreeing on ANYTHING.
Can`t you tell by reading the posts on various threads on here?
I think you`ll either have to put up with the fud or leave ann (I`m thinking of this atm).
L8-X (fed up with fud)
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 2 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Scott Pistorino on 11-Oct-2002 17:25 GMT
Outstanding FAQ Digby. It's about time someone tried to make sense of the whole situation. Waiting on the sideline for the replies.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 3 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 11-Oct-2002 18:11 GMT
Well done!
It's good to see someone making a stand against all of the pathetic and ultimately pointless arguments going on around the once peaceful and more cerebral shores of Ann.
You have my support.
:)
---
Sam
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 4 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Lasse Bodilsen on 11-Oct-2002 18:21 GMT
Thank's for providing the facts, and doing so without being biased one way or the orhter.
Got my support too.
LB
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 5 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 11-Oct-2002 18:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (L8-X):
perhaps it will never happen. perhaps it will. but if this helps, I will do it again and again. gotta have the faith. atleast now there IS a quite good faq around.
that's ONE building stone.. hopefully, there will be many others to come.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 6 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Jonny Johansson on 11-Oct-2002 18:35 GMT
Beatiful!
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 7 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Jonny Johansson on 11-Oct-2002 18:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Jonny Johansson):
One word and I managed to misspell it... :)
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 8 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 11-Oct-2002 20:46 GMT
Some notes:
> 1.2 What we know about AmigaOS4
There's a very extensive feature list. (There currently isn't one available publicly for MorphOS though)
> 1.4 Who is behind AmigaOS4
> It is a Hyperion project comissioned by Amiga Inc.
Hyperion *lead* project, would be more correct.
> 1.7 What do you mean "certified AmigaONE"
> AmigaONEs in the current generation are stock PPC motherboards with an "anti-
> piracy" feature locking the board to a particular installation of
> AmigaOS4.0.
This is very misleading as the board is not locked to AmigaOS4, but instead AmigaOS4 is "locked" to the board. It can run any other OS.
> 1.8 What is this "legal stink" or "FUD" between Amiga INC and MorphOS
> No real facts are known, at this stage it is all conjecture apart from
> allegation and counter allegation made on public fora by people that should
> know better.
Although public available facts are real thin. (and in an ideal situation this should remain this way) Some facts are publicly known, such as Bill McEwen statements. It is publicly known that the MorphOS team denies usage of AmigaOS source code, but does not want to make a statement with regard to access to AmigaOS source code.
> It is claimed by some that Haage&Partner will not let Amiga INC use the
> AmigaOS 3.5+ source. No details are available to the public on this either.
This is of course impossible as many other coders instead of only H&P coders were involved. (use of *some* source code would therefor be more accurate)
> 1.9 Why is there a FUD war?
> It is in the interest of each party that both sides have their extremist
> advocates that spread misinformation and innuendo to undermine the
> credibility of each solution. We ask you to judge the products by their
> merits on release and stay above such behaviour.
I do not agree, IMO it is in neither party's best interest.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 9 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Doobrey on 11-Oct-2002 20:56 GMT
Wow, that`s a breath of fresh air around here..a non biased FAQ on MorphOS and AOS 4..
Now if only all the lamers and flamers on ANN could take the same chill pill as this guys taking ;)
I never did get all this FUD stuff..how can anyone compare 2 products that they have never seen or used, and which aren`t even in "released state" yet and say one is better than the other?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 10 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 11-Oct-2002 21:29 GMT
Short Version:
ignore everything except what you can get and play with.
Even Shorter:
AROS
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 11 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Alan C on 11-Oct-2002 22:30 GMT
It would be great if all those who advocate a position would take it for granted that the rest of us have the intelligence to work the issues out for ourselves.
I too have begun to despair at the FUD comments attached to many postings. A simple solution though, don't read 'em.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 12 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 11-Oct-2002 23:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (3seas):
I gotta agree on that...so far the only truly "available" product is AROS. I like their attitude too. They just stay busy coding and avoid the political crap. :)
coldfire
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 13 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by spihunter on 12-Oct-2002 03:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Alan C):
woo!! Hoo!!
Lets leave it this way until the 2 systems
become public!
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 14 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 06:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Mike Bouma):
>> 1.2 What we know about AmigaOS4
> There's a very extensive feature list. (There currently isn't one available publicly for MorphOS though)
There is an extensive feature list but it would be sensible in my view to let people go and look for this rather than bloat a FAQ with it. Plus feature lists are renowned "vapourware" and until it is released has no place in the FAQ itself. Perhaps a link would be a good compromise.
>> 1.4 Who is behind AmigaOS4
>> It is a Hyperion project comissioned by Amiga Inc.
>Hyperion *lead* project, would be more correct.
If Ben Hermans does not have a problem with 1.4 then I don't think it should be corrected although I know what you mean but I think the FAQ has to be careful there. Hyperion is the "company" that is behind it, other individuals are as far as I am aware "contracted" or "sub-contracted" and it would muddy the FAQ. Once OS4.0 hits release then the whole list of credits could and perhaps should be put there.
>> 1.7 What do you mean "certified AmigaONE"
>> AmigaONEs in the current generation are stock PPC motherboards with an "anti
>> piracy" feature locking the board to a particular installation of
>> AmigaOS4.0.
>This is very misleading as the board is not locked to AmigaOS4, but instead >AmigaOS4 is "locked" to the board.
Could Ben please take me through this scheme one more time if this is wrong.
> It can run any other OS.
Ah got to be careful there too. It can theoritically run any other OS as can Pegasos - so long as that OS has been prepared for the hardware. I thought it was such an obvious point that it did not bear repeating but perhaps we can come up with some good wording for both.
>> 1.8 What is this "legal stink" or "FUD" between Amiga INC and MorphOS
>> No real facts are known, at this stage it is all conjecture apart from
>> allegation and counter allegation made on public fora by people that should
>> know better.
> Although public available facts are real thin. (and in an ideal situation this should remain this way) Some facts are publicly known, such as Bill McEwen statements.
Statements by Bill McEwan do not easily translate into facts that help us in the arguments. The only fact we have is that he made a statement and generally his statements are carefully worded so you do not know whether he is referring to the Amithlon issue or the MorphOS issue ( e.g. AmiWest ). Fleecy has made more direct statements but again they are just accusations and would not help anyones temper or understanding of the situation putting them in a FAQ in *that* section. Maybe another section documenting the allegations that have been made?
>It is publicly known that the MorphOS team denies usage of AmigaOS source code, but does not want to make a statement with regard to access to AmigaOS source code.
Until they make a statement writing in "MorphOS.de does not want to make a statement regarding access to source code" is too close to innuendo to go in the FAQ. Maybe "MorphOS.de has not made any public statement on the issue of access to AmigaOS source code".
Again I hope you see the danger - that is that the FAQ could become almost a courtroom recording the accusations and the counter accusations which from all sides are just opinion, pomp and bluster. The basic facts only and on the legal discussion what I would prefer is:
1. If there WAS a court case scheduled the FAQ would record "Amiga Inc. vs XXX will be on November 1st 2002" ( or whenever ).
2. If verified facts appeared in a public transcript the FAQ would record a link to that ( or a copy ).
3. If an outcome in any case appeared the FAQ would record that.
Nothing beyond the basic facts otherwise the FAQ degenerates into a row between MorphOS and AmigaOS fanatics again.
>> It is claimed by some that Haage&Partner will not let Amiga INC use the
>> AmigaOS 3.5+ source. No details are available to the public on this either.
>This is of course impossible as many other coders instead of only H&P coders were involved. (use of *some* source code would therefor be more accurate)
That is your opinion, all I have is the accusation to record. If someone can find a statement where Ben or some other illustrious Hyperion member answered this accusation then the FAQ entry would bear modification. OTOH this a case
of the FAQ recording an accusation.
>> 1.9 Why is there a FUD war?
>> It is in the interest of each party that both sides have their extremist
>> advocates that spread misinformation and innuendo to undermine the
>> credibility of each solution. We ask you to judge the products by their
>> merits on release and stay above such behaviour.
> I do not agree, IMO it is in neither party's best interest.
Mike, this is what marketing is all about these days. Perhaps it should read "the other product" instead of "each solution". I would agree with you that the FUD war has gone beyond what any of the combatants expected which is yet another dramatic loss of Amiga users from the userbase and mud sticking to
all parties.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 15 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 12-Oct-2002 08:03 GMT
I don't really like the wording "Expected to be released".
Expected by who? I'd prefer "Scheduled for release".
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 16 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 12-Oct-2002 08:04 GMT
IMO it would have been best to let Ben Hermans and other leading (MorphOS/Amiga Inc) figures read your list and wait for a response, at least before releasing this as *the* facts list publicly.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 17 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 12-Oct-2002 08:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Mike Bouma):
If he had waited to get full agrement from everybody, the FAQ would
never have been published.
IMO it is very fair and balanced.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 18 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 12-Oct-2002 08:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Don Cox):
IMO the list does include misleading aspects and an *opinion* I personally totally disagree with.
"It is in the interest of each party that both sides have their extremist advocates that spread misinformation"
I could not disagree more. IMO such acts hurt the entire Amiga community.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 19 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 12-Oct-2002 08:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Mike Bouma):
it is not ONCE stated that what we have here IS facts. I said it in the posting here on ann, and I even added a "what I hope is".. and furthermore, the FAQ even has "# Its business, look for the intent behind the innuendo and treat everything reported as fact ( including this FAQ ) with guarded suspiscion."
What that means is, not even the fudbuster, however much you love it, is guaranteed to be 100% correct or right in all aspects. all postings, where ever they come from, are 'tainted' with the personal views of the author. sometimes its so extremely little that no one notices it. sometimes its dripping with insinuations and values from that of the author.
I think the fudbuster has gone a long way to stay clear of insinuations and personal values.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 20 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 12-Oct-2002 08:28 GMT
> If he had waited to get full agrement from everybody'
You can wait a while for everyone to make a public statement, if they want to do so.
You can also state different points of views, if different statements are not compatible.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 21 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 12-Oct-2002 08:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (reflect):
Reflect, my comments are targeted at the original author, not the news submitter. If you release a "FUDBUSTER" list, IMO you must be able to take criticism, especially if it contains misleading information and personal opinions.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 22 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 12-Oct-2002 08:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Mike Bouma):
Uhm, I can take criticism as good as anyone.
I have updated the fudbuster on the one point I think you're right.
But I state that the article in itself does not go out to be the absolute truth.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 23 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 08:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Mike Bouma):
Mike there is constructive criticism and there is picking holes for the sake of it and I do think you are going towards the latter.
If you want to go set up your own FAQ with your own personal opinions in it please go ahead and if you want to get "official" draft and redraft through BPlan and Amiga Inc and make it an "official sanctioned FAQ".
Saying it is in someones interest to spread FUD about the other party is not the same as saying they are actually behind it.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 24 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Oct-2002 09:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Mike Bouma):
Ben, Ralph and anyone else has the chance to put their views to reflect ( or me ) either publically or through reflect.
I personally think you are naive to think that either party would want the FAQ to reflect their view of the others not a neutral view.
I do not see any "incompatible" statements in the FAQ and as reflect pointed
out it sayes in the FAQ to be guarded about the contents.
If the FAQ grows to every detail and every nuance of the argument and counter
argument it goes beyond the main point of it which is to say to everyone:
"heres the basics, we acknowledge that there is a marketing war going on ( direct, indirect and independent ) and our advice is to be skeptical".
Im sure as it grows it will contain links and more detail but frankly a new person in or someone who does not think they are the courtroom of the world will find that as irritatingly navel gazing as some of the degenerate FUD wars that it is trying to alleviate pressure on.
I guess from your tone that you think I am pro MorphOS?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 25 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 09:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Johan Rönnblom):
Point to an official schedule please. At the moment we just have heresay from
both MorphOS and AmigaOS camps and the credibility of the scheduling from either is suspect.
I would happily ask reflect to modify it to say
MorphOS.de ( at this link ) schedules MorphOS for public release in December 2002 ( please treat all scheduled dates with caution, projects are known to slip).
etc.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 26 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 12-Oct-2002 09:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Digby):
> Mike there is constructive criticism
It was intended as such.
> and there is picking holes
So, can I make out of this that you don't want to see these holes filled?
> for the sake of it
For the sake of what exactly do you think?
> and I do think you are going towards the latter.
That's just too bad then.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 27 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 09:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Mike Bouma):
"So, can I make out of this that you don't want to see these holes filled? "
I do want holes filled and I want to see corrections but you on the one hand
criticise it for an opinion on some of the possible reasons why there is a FUD
war in the first place and then ask the FAQ to contain your opinion as to why
one of the most oft repeated allegations is ludicrous.
I have tried to answer your post in detail ( which I have been told is repeated in detail on amiga.org somewhere ) and with courtesy. Perhaps you should go and answer that first.
Ben Hermans and Ralph Schmidt have the same opportunity to send corrections to
reflect as the rest of us.
Do we need to put at the top "NOT AN OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED OR CLEARED WITH BILL MCEWAN FAQ"?
Perhaps I need to ask reflect to put the "treat this FAQ with equal scepticism" as point 0.
Correct "facts" with "facts". I *like* your point about the FUD being damaging to the community - I think that should go in but it does not contradict the point that the FUD for either side is in the interest of either side to propagate.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 28 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 09:30 GMT
Oh and for those that just read what Mike put at face value it really sayes:
"It is in the interest of each party that both sides have their extremist advocates that spread misinformation and innuendo to undermine the credibility of each solution. We ask you to judge the products by their merits on release and stay above such behaviour. "
It does not say
* it is in the interest of the communty that....
* it does not harm the community if...
It does say:
* accept there will be a level of self interest from either party
* get a grip on it
* dont believe anything until it is released
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 29 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 12-Oct-2002 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Digby):
> and then ask the FAQ to contain your opinion as to why
> one of the most oft repeated allegations is ludicrous.
I`m not saying that at all. Personally I would prefer such FUDBUSTER or facts lists to exclude opinions completely.
> Ben Hermans and Ralph Schmidt have the same opportunity to send corrections
> to reflect as the rest of us.
Personally, I would have preferred this to happen before reading about it on news forums. (You mailing these people about the existance of this list and that you plan to submit this onto main Amiga news sites)
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 30 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Oct-2002 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Mike Bouma):
>> and then ask the FAQ to contain your opinion as to why
>> one of the most oft repeated allegations is ludicrous.
>I`m not saying that at all. Personally I would prefer such FUDBUSTER or facts lists to exclude opinions completely.
OK well you are entitled to your view but the FUDBUSTER just attempts to explain some of the reasons as to why the FUD exists - and limits itself to "opinion" there ( when in fact it is not so much opinion but a nuts and bolts explanation of marketing ).
Reflect has ultimate editorial control over the FUDBUSTER FAQ and I just did the first draft. Between us Im sure we can put something to him that doesn't raise your hackles so.
>>Ben Hermans and Ralph Schmidt have the same opportunity to send corrections
>>to reflect as the rest of us.
>Personally, I would have preferred this to happen before reading about it on news forums. (You mailing these people about the existance of this list and that you plan to submit this onto main Amiga news sites)
That could have happened, except Ben and Ralph both read ANN ( probably before their e-mail ) ;-). However what I do not get is what you think the FUDBUSTER would have gained from this? Please elaborate.
I am sure they might have also disliked the existence of the point you take issue with it but would be unable to argue with its general theory. If you look at pages online that deal with the history of FUD cases they ALL fit into that pattern.
You see to me the community view of the content of the FUDBUSTER is more important ( that is after all the problem it is trying to address ) than the opinions of the principals of the marketplace.
I have been writing a book called The History Of The Computer Community of which the Amiga section covers five chapters so far and when writing a history you have to assign against all sources metadata that described how reliable the source was, what its interest in the material was and so on.
Press releases from companies score low for reliability (you can record as FACT that the company released it on xx/yy/zzzz and its contents were aaabbbb but thats about it ).
Publicised schedules are almost as low for reliability.
Look this is getting way off topic (Im now onto my hobby) if you are interested in more details about that stuff let me know and Ill send you a gratis copy of the book in PDF form ( its an open book ).
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 31 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 10:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Anonymous):
"( its an open book )."
Correction, its an open book as in its in PDF and PS form and is to be published online but it is "charity ware" which requires you to put a donation of 10UKP to charity when you check it out of the online store.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 32 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Oct-2002 11:56 GMT
Am I the only one who sees the irony in someone writing an unbiased
FAQ and then people complaining it doesn't support their opinions?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 33 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 12:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
No :-)
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 34 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 12-Oct-2002 12:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
No.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 35 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 12-Oct-2002 12:56 GMT
Nice list/fudbuster/whatever.
Not perfect but perhaps as good as it ever can be.
I would recommend to leave it as it is.
If the author manages to get commented version from both Ralph and Ben, it might be a good idea to put them as attachments.
Then, after a few month, build fudbuster2 with similar attachments
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 36 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 12-Oct-2002 12:57 GMT
I think this FAQ is well written and well balanced.
Thanks,
redfox
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 37 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 12-Oct-2002 12:57 GMT
I think this FAQ is well written and well balanced.
Thanks,
redfox
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 38 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 12-Oct-2002 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (redfox):
Sorry, I must have hit the button more than once.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 39 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by NeRP on 12-Oct-2002 13:19 GMT
Irregardless of what anyone says, the list does it's intended job.
Lets not get caught up in semantics. The FudBuster is trying to relay
facts in a non biased way, and sticking to the points that does not
make it start to get muddy.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 40 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 12-Oct-2002 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Digby):
Just ignore Mike. He's hurt that someone came up with a fairly unbiased report that doesn't back up his world view nor his propaganda, err, writings.
Dammy
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 41 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 12-Oct-2002 13:54 GMT
Mike, just ignore Dammy. ;)
piece
priest
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 42 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 12-Oct-2002 14:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Digby):
This list is being presented as a non-biased facts list. But actually it combines facts, with opinions and some misleading information I have pointed out. IMO there is enough available of that already.
I truly dislike the idea that people who spread misinformation around do somehow something positive for market or community.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 43 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Jonny Johansson on 12-Oct-2002 15:04 GMT
Fortunately, it seems the FUDmeisters prove too
unsubtle to rid themselves of the FAQ with yet more FUD...
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 44 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 12-Oct-2002 15:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Mike Bouma):
Two of Mike's points are valid, I think.
1. OS 4 was not commissioned by Amiga Inc. AFAIK Hyperion proposed the
project, and Amiga Inc were pleased to let them do it. Subtle but
important difference. (If I'm right.)
2. The OS 4 software is locked to the hardware (not just to the A1
board), not the other way round.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 45 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 12-Oct-2002 15:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Mike Bouma):
you still think that the fudbuster is incorrect?
Then by all means, p l e a s e point some urls in my directions so that I can read up on the matter. If it is incorrect, I will gladly change it.
I will not, however, just change the wordings cause it probably will be more correct.
>> It is claimed by some that Haage&Partner will not let Amiga INC use the
>> AmigaOS 3.5+ source. No details are available to the public on this either.
>This is of course impossible as many other coders instead of only H&P coders >were involved. (use of *some* source code would therefor be more accurate)
like this one. point me to where I can read about it, a statement from someone that actually knows.
until then, I'm signing off, since this is pointless.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 46 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 12-Oct-2002 15:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Don Cox):
I've changed the part about the motherboard and OS4, many hours ago.
What version (bottom of the page, around my email) do you have? Should be 1.1.2.
or have I missed something?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 47 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark] on 12-Oct-2002 15:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (reflect):
What about this URL ;O)
http://os.amiga.com/3.9/credits.shtml
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 48 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 12-Oct-2002 15:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (reflect):
I just checked again, and it still says "commissioned by Amiga Inc".
It's not really important, but I don't think Hyperion and Eyetech are
getting enough credit.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 49 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 17:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Don Cox):
You probably have a proxy somewhere that has an old copy.
Eyetech and Hyperion get plenty of credit.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 50 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 17:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Mike Bouma):
"This list is being presented as a non-biased facts list. But actually it combines facts, with opinions and some misleading information I have pointed out. IMO there is enough available of that already. "
with opinions, where? You haven't exactly answered any of my followups on this properly. Misleading information? The two bits that are generally considered valid you raised have been corrected. The rest of your statements I question.
>I truly dislike the idea that people who spread misinformation around do >somehow something positive for market or community.
No one sayes they do. Point to the part of the FUDBUSTER that sayes that or give over Mike :-D
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