20-Apr-2024 14:20 GMT.		 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 108 items in your selection (but only 58 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 108]
[Rant] let us end the fud once and for all.ANN.lu
Posted on 11-Oct-2002 18:25 GMT by reflect108 comments
View flat
View list
Are you tired of seeing the same old arguments beeing spewed from one side unto the next, tired of seeing personal views presented as facts? The ongoing flamewar between MOS and OS4 is making alot of people tired. Now there's a list of (what I hope is) facts up here, written by Digby. If you would like to contribute to this list, please mail the maintainer and add links so that the 'facts' can be easily verified.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 51 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 12-Oct-2002 17:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Digby):
I can still only see the unmodified version myself, but note that I am backing off my contributions within the community at large. ( http://amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3522&forum=8 ) So don't expect further replies in forums or other contributions from me anytime soon. See ya.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 52 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 12-Oct-2002 17:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Mike Bouma):
I see the modified version, so it is there.
p.s. a credits list for Amiga OS4.0 is all very interesting but it is Hyperion lead and that is all that really matters, it does say in the FAQ if you want to get a clue about AmigaOS4.0 to go to the OS4.0 site.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 53 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Tof on 12-Oct-2002 20:19 GMT
as i allready sai here
Leave the Amiga alone, Amiga INC must close, Gateway release the AmigaOS source
That's ALL
nb: It's about 10 years now, that someone trying making money with a dead Computer, now it's time to all amiga fan to take the destiny
Tof
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 54 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by That's me! on 12-Oct-2002 20:51 GMT
Maybe I'm wrong but... Isn't that Hyperion said they weren't sure about releasing an AOS4 version for the current PPC's and that MorphOS said since the beginning that MOS will be available for current PPC's???
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 55 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 12-Oct-2002 22:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Mike Bouma):
That's a shame, Mike. We'll be sorry to see you go. Thanks for all of your great articles.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 56 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by CodeSmith on 12-Oct-2002 22:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (That's me!):
When did Hyperion say that?!?
Look at section 1.6 of the FAQ. IIRC OS4 for Blizzard and CSPPC cards is supposed to come out *before* OS4 for the A1.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 57 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 13-Oct-2002 00:38 GMT
1.14 Who is Samface?
• A Troll
• A corporate zealot
• c0rpe's alter-ego
One more cast before I cut bait...
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 58 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 13-Oct-2002 00:46 GMT
By the way, did Amiga Inc. or Hyperion say when AmigaOS 4 would be released to run on the AmigaOne? So far I've only read that AOS4 was scheduled to be released at the end of this year, that could just mean for 68k.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 59 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by CodeSmith on 13-Oct-2002 02:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (strobe):
I don't think they gave a solid date, just "a couple of weeks after" it got released for classic machines. I think the idea was that, since they started developing it on classics, they should release it first on those rather than make accelerator owners wait until it was ready for the A1. Since OS4 has a hardware abstraction layer, all you need to rewrite is the HAL (and they can do that while the CDs for the other versions are getting manufactured).
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 60 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by CodeSmith on 13-Oct-2002 02:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (CodeSmith):
Another thing - I don't think there's going to be a 68K-only OS4. Hyperion has only mentioned OS4 in relation to either Blizzard/CSPPC or AmigaOne. I could be wrong, but if so they would not be delaying the release until the 68K emulator got integrated. You don't need an emulator if the whole OS is 68K...
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 61 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 13-Oct-2002 04:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (CodeSmith):
" So far I've only read that AOS4 was scheduled to be released at the end of this year, that could just mean for 68k."
Its in the FAQ, Ben Hermans has been reported saying this many times. There will be no 68k AmigaOS4.0.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 62 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by CodeSmith on 13-Oct-2002 06:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Digby):
I suspect that this is to force us away from the outdated 68K architecture (since OS4 is now portable C, there is no reason why they couldn't just compile it for 68K and release OS4-68K). Right now a 60MHz 68060 is the pinnacle of 68K, and that is just holding us back. Since Hyperion is primarily a games company, they must be quite frustrated when they think what they could be doing vs. what they can do with such a slow CPU. Why be stuck with Quake 1 when you could be working on Quake 3?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 63 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 13-Oct-2002 06:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (CodeSmith):
.
"Right now a 60MHz 68060 is the pinnacle of 68K".
no My 060/80Mhz with full MMU FPU is :)
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 64 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 13-Oct-2002 06:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Alkemyst):
68k Amiga code runs much faster on an Amithlon setup than on any
68060.
Technically, a 68k version of OS 4 to run on Amithlon would make
sense. Politically of course it is not possible at present.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 65 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 13-Oct-2002 06:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Don Cox):
I am trying to put together a matrix for all the hardware alternatives that
we have to come to add to the FUDBUSTER. Anyone able to help me either through contributing, finding references or by reviewing the final matrix before I send it to reflect?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 66 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 13-Oct-2002 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Digby):
you mean with specs and all?
exactly what have you got in mind?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 67 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 13-Oct-2002 08:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (reflect):
Yeah with specs covering the main differences.
You see another big part of the FUD to my thinking is the fact
that some say "The Pegasos is better than the A1" or the "Shark is better than the Pegasos" when they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
For example the extra PCI slot on the A1-SE is good for me personally because
Im a dual monitor bigot but the CPU slot of the Pegasos is a good idea but that has been countered with the "XE" and besides both of these seem to be proprietary solutions to the point we would have to wait for B-Plan or MAI ( AFAIK ) to produce modules for it before the features became useful.
I dont know, perhaps this is too much detail and maybe it could be done in bullet points.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 68 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 13-Oct-2002 08:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Mike Bouma):
> > Mike there is constructive criticism
>
> It was intended as such.
>
> > and there is picking holes
>
> So, can I make out of this that you don't want to see these holes filled?
Hear! Hear!
Mike, although I agree with you that the FAQ is in some points too vague, you really have to explain to me this your twofold behaviour: when it comes down to other people (like me, on OSNews, about AROS and your lies) "picking holes" (like you said I did) on what you wrote, it's all bad, when instead it's you the one doing it, you suddendly become a victim?
Nice admission of your bias.
Fabio Alemagna
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 69 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 13-Oct-2002 08:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Fabio Alemagna):
"FAQ is in some points too vague"
Elaborate please ( which is all I have ever asked of Mike btw ).
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 70 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 13-Oct-2002 09:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Digby):
> "FAQ is in some points too vague"
>
> Elaborate please ( which is all I have ever asked of Mike btw ).
Those were the points that have been already modified, so that statement doesn't hold true anymore.
Actually, I think the part about why there's FUD going on from both parties should be totally removed: it express a personal opinion of the FAQ's writer, not a fact. I mean, I agree with the writer on why there's FUD going on, but that doesn't mean it's a FACT, it's just an opinion that I happen to share with him.
Just remove that section.
Fabio Alemagna
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 71 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 13-Oct-2002 09:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Fabio Alemagna):
No its not a personal opinion. It is a generic explanation of why some are motivated to conduct a FUD war.
Perhaps some of the modifications I suggested earlier to Mike need to be made
(which he has chosen not to follow up to for his own reasons) or just to be more explicit on that point:
"Here are some of the reasons FUD war in general perpetuate"
Dont forget it sayes
"1.9 Why is there a FUD war?
It is in the interest of each party that both sides have their extremist advocates that spread misinformation and innuendo to undermine the credibility of each solution. We ask you to judge the products by their merits on release and stay above such behaviour.
Its business, look for the intent behind the innuendo and treat everything reported as fact ( including this FAQ ) with guarded suspiscion.
Some get bored and try to stir up trouble.
Some take too much at face value and repost innuendo as fact inciting a war. "
It sayes it is in the interest of both parties ( which is a clear fact ) it does not say that both parties are actively engaging in X/Y/Z.
I think it would be naive to remove that section of the FAQ because an understanding that there might be valid motivation behind conducting a FUD war helps people understand and treat sources of information ( e.g. trolls on ANN ) with appropriate candour.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 72 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 13-Oct-2002 09:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Digby):
As I said to Mike there may be a version of this wording that would not sound so critical to delicate ears that we can concoct and put to reflect ( who I consider the arbiter of what goes in and what does not ).
Something like:
Marketing sometimes includes efforts to undermine a competitors product or position through conducting FUD wars through third parties such as advocates, forum users and well placed anonymous postings. Each company strives for market dominance and FUD techniques are merely another branch of marketing.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 73 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 13-Oct-2002 09:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Digby):
> No its not a personal opinion. It is a generic explanation of why some are
> motivated to conduct a FUD war.
It's a PERSONAL explanation, not backed up with real facts. There's nothing that proves it right, it's just speculation. It MAY be right, but it's an opinion.
The sole fact that some can argue about it SHOWS that it's an opinion: you cannot argue about facts, they are there, there's nothing to argue about.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 74 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Dude on 13-Oct-2002 09:26 GMT
1.6 Tell me more about the bundling scheme for AmigaOS
* AmigaOS4.0 will be purchasable off the shelf for Blizzard PPC and Cybervision PPC card owners.
Cybervision PPC;
Should be CyberstormPPC
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 75 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 13-Oct-2002 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Digby):
That sounds much better.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 76 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 13-Oct-2002 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Fabio Alemagna):
AH BUT ITS A PERSONAL OPINION!
In other words its exactly what was said before but reworded a little.
All that was said before is exactly what you now dont have a problem with.
The FACT is "it is in the interest of both parties that a FUD war is conducted"
The OPINION would be "both parties are conducting a FUD war"
LOL
Im sure Reflect will change it to the modified version to stop people misinterpreting it so in the future and a nice spot by Dude with the Cybervision and Cyberstorm flamengo up.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 77 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 13-Oct-2002 09:42 GMT
Really can't complain too much about this list. I guess I could
make a couple suggestions; please don't take them as criticisms.
From the descriptions at the top of each project, a newbie would
consider the projects in equally advanced stages of development.
In fact MorphOS is in a much more advanced state of development,
as evidenced by the many public demonstrations, such as the one I
did at the NCAUG meeting in McLean, Virginia, USA yesterday.
When Hyperion (or whoever you are relying on in the FAQ) talks
about a December, 2002 release date it is inconceivable that they
are referring to a consumer release of OS 4 for the Amiga One.
They may be talking about a version for classic Amigas with PPC
accelerators. This difference should not be "fudged."
When Thendic-France projects a consumer release for December it
is within the realm of possibility, as they have publically
demonstrated the system in many places and it is visibly in an
advanced state of development. And I say this as one who uses the
system every day: It won't be perfect and there will still be
tweaks, but this system is close to a consumer release.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 78 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Digby on 13-Oct-2002 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Daniel Miller):
Without getting too much into the state of development perhaps there
could be a "public pre-release outings" second which linked to reviews of each event where they were demonstrated and in what capacity?
Then it would be up to any newbie to make their own conclusions from the data.
What do you think?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 79 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by cOrspe on 13-Oct-2002 11:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (strobe):
"1.14 Who is Samface?
• A Troll
• A corporate zealot
• c0rpe's alter-ego
One more cast before I cut bait..."
1.69 Paranoia ?
• Yep
• Yup
• Yes
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 80 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 13-Oct-2002 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (strobe):
"Who is Samface?"
Someone who could have just as well written this FAQ himself.
I dare you to name/quote one occation where I have said something which doesn't comply with this FAQ. Otherwise, get a life. These kind kind of personal attacks are really making you look pathetic.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 81 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 13-Oct-2002 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Fabio Alemagna):
Ted Turner once agreed to be interviewed on PBS. The interview started out by Ted pointing out to the interviewer/reporter that he himself is a new reporter and knows all the dirty little reporter tricks. He continued on that if the reporter tried any such tricks on him in this interview, it would end the interview. Well the interview went on and was quite interesting and getting more interesting until the reporter slipped and tried a reporter dirty trick.
Ted simply said, interview over, as he got up and walked out.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 82 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 13-Oct-2002 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (3seas):
The recent epsoide of ST:Enterprise was really quite interesting and representitive of current events (like how the original series was).
It was about an automaed repair station who's vocabulary and knowledge base seemed to be limited to only what was needed to do business with ships in need of repair. Ask it a question that was not related to it "doing business" and it apeared to not understand.
During repair the crew as informed to stay away from areas being repaired, but one crew member got what he thought was a call from the captain, telling him to meet him in an area being repaired. Next scene is one in the medical bay when it appears the crewman is dead but it is eventually exposed that it is a perfect copy of that crewman, but dead of course, to dead.
The episode ends with the automated system is found out for how it has such a powerful processing abilities in a space that seems way to small even for as advanced as it is. It was taping into the most powerful computing systems to exist, the brain, not just of humans but any species that it had done business with.
Of course Enterprise had to get it's fellow crewman back and in the process had to distroy the station or be distroyed.
Key things worth noting about the story is that the station, though pretending to be ignorant of anything that did not profit it, certainly had the knowledge base of communication and understanding far beyond that. It wasn't going to argue but only insist on what it wanted, like that was all it knew. And the closing shot...... the station was repairing itself, putting itself back together as if nothing happened.
Just like what seems to be current trends and mindsets of ......
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 83 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 13-Oct-2002 13:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Digby):
Although personally I still would have liked to see some details changed. The current FAQ is much better, the two points that bothered me the most have changed.
1) No justfication is given for spreading FUD or misinformation by extremists.
2) It doesn't state A1 boards are locked to AmigaOS4 anymore.
Goody work.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 84 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 13-Oct-2002 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Mike Bouma):
state what it is that you want changed, and also give me an url and/or what you think it should say. if it is right, and I can verify that, I will change it, and I will be grateful for you pointing it out to me.
I want the fudbuster to be so accurate as humanly possible. I want it to be THE reference point you go to when you want to know something about A1/Pegasos/Shark
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 85 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 13-Oct-2002 14:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Don Cox):
we are talking about real HW here not emu
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 86 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by tinman on 13-Oct-2002 15:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Digby):
IIRC someone done something like this before (the hw matrix). It was a guy called Alan Buxey, and his work can be found here http://www.mssl.ucl.ac.uk/~almb/AmigaOptions.html
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 87 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Oct-2002 16:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Digby):
>For example the extra PCI slot on the A1-SE is good for me personally because
Im a dual monitor bigot
But it doesn´t come for free, you know...
Most modern gfxcard have two outputs anyway (supported by P96/CGX?).
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 88 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 13-Oct-2002 17:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Alkemyst):
"we are talking about real HW here not emu"
That's a spurious distinction. Any computer that is not based on a 68k
(or possibly a Coldfire) will need an emulator to run most Amiga
software.
If Motorola had continued development of the 68k line, we would have
had new Amigas long ago. Fortunately emulation techniques have
advanced to the point where an emulated processor is fast enough to do
useful work - in fact, to the point where you can forget that there is
any emulation involved.
Emulation of the AGA chips is unfortunately not so advanced.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 89 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 13-Oct-2002 21:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Mike Bouma):
Personally I would prefer, when you write your own articles, that you do some fact checking, and try to observe some neutrality. I've witnessed you writing inaccurate/misleading articles on osnews for quite some time, your picking at his *factlist* is sort of hypocritical, I suggest you fix your own problems with FUD first, before attacking Digby's list.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 90 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 13-Oct-2002 21:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Mike Bouma):
Is that a promise?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 91 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 14-Oct-2002 06:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Don Cox):
no sorry he clearly is talking about facts & real HW the 060 is the last in the line it dont matter what could of been.
& seeing as no amiga runs coldfire, that dont count.
he & i was not talking about emu at all but you just could not help your self could you.
& my real amiga can do much more SW than amithlon.
as not all my SW is RTG. & i do like playing lots of old games.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 92 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by grok? on 14-Oct-2002 07:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Alkemyst):
That may very well be so. But since you didn't write your post in English I have no idea. Try again, but this time combine the characters in an order that forms words, use proper capitalisation (well, ANY capitalisation at least) and try to order the words in complete sentences. Throw in some commas and periods while you're at it.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 93 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 14-Oct-2002 07:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Alkemyst):
"And my real Amiga can do much more SW than Amithlon,
as not all my SW is RTG. And I do like playing lots of old games."
However, the software that doesn't run on Amithlon will not run on the
AmigaOne or Pegasos either. In all these cases, you would have to
install UAE to run any old games.
I seldom run old games, but I would need UAE to run DPaint or
Brillance on any of the new hardware, when my Amigas are all dead,
unless Hyperion come up with some clever way of emulating AGA within
OS 4.1 or 4.2.
All the new hardware will depend on emulation to run Amiga software,
so we may as well accept it. And when it works, emulation is a very
good thing.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 94 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 14-Oct-2002 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (grok?):
yet another fool who thinks for about the spelling than what is being said.
& why should i have to be english & i see no one else complaining.
you cant twist my comment so you attack my style.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 95 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 14-Oct-2002 08:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Don Cox):
yet again Don you managen to turn a simple replay about the fastest real amigas out there into something else & now we are not chatting about the 060/80 being the fast real amiga anymore.
we are not talking about emu wich i dont need right now.
& i would like emu to be for backward compat & not the point in its self.
i will not continue this emu chat.
you brought the emu into it & you can damn well take it out again.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 96 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 14-Oct-2002 08:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (grok?):
also you must hate IRC as they use all sorts of styles.
4Play, IMHO, BRB , STFU, L33t, lol. /& anymore.
i bet you go around moaning at ppl for doing that as well.
with such a brain like yours, i would of though you could of worked out what i was saying,
seeing as the other ppl with out your high & mighty gramma skills could still understand.
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 97 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Charlie on 14-Oct-2002 09:41 GMT
Let's all BUY BOTH!!!!
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 98 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Oct-2002 10:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Anonymous):
IIRC, Parhelia has 3 outputs, and some older Matrox models have 4 monitor support (maybe even 8 monitors). Ofcourse the driver support is an issue, at least untill OS4 (and MOS) gets released. I think also some Nvidia card support 4 monitors, but the lack of drivers is even bigger broblem there...
One thing is not 100% clear to me: if one puts 66Mhz PCI card to the fourth PCI slot of A1.5, does the 2xAGP speed drop to 1xAGP?
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 99 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Oct-2002 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Mike Bouma):
Don't let them get you! Keep up the good work!
let us end the fud once and for all. : Comment 100 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Oct-2002 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Alkemyst):
> yet another fool who thinks for about the spelling than what is being said.
I agree with "grok". I have no idea what was being said in the comment he/she replied to. Simple spelling mistakes are not the end of the world. Some of your posts however... It's like you're just dumping your brain on the keyboard. Please stop and read your own posts before hitting "Add comment".
> you cant twist my comment so you attack my style.
Why would "grok" be trying to "twist your comment" if he/she can't understand what you're trying to say? What you wrote just doesn't make any sense to me either. I'm not arguing with what you wrote, because I'm not entirely sure of what you actually wrote.
> also you must hate IRC as they use all sorts of styles.
But this is not IRC. Noone is measuring the number of CPS you're typing with. Slow down, proof-read what you write and start to make sense.
> with such a brain like yours, [...]
Oh well. I intend this to be a well-intended piece of advice. To me it didn't seem like "grok" wrote his/her post out of malice either.
I'm not a native English speaker. Lots of people here don't speak English natively. This makes it *even more* important to at least make an effort to express yourself clearly. BTW, just hammering away on the keyboard looks stupid in any language. The shift key for example doesn't stop working as soon as you type in another language than your own.
Anonymous, there are 108 items in your selection (but only 58 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 108]
Back to Top