| [Rant] How does the future look ? | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 08-Nov-2002 23:27 GMT by Garth | 122 comments
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with the following lines i like to explain my worries and concerns to the companies and normal application developers. this text is written by someone outside of amiga that may like to buy such a system and use it for the future.
hello reader, i was an amiga user and quit some years ago, switched to linux and use it today. i do development on linux, got used to open source and don't miss anything. in the past couple of weeks new amiga hardware got announced and made me get interested again. but i'm really worried in how companies will reach new customers or getting their old people back. on the following lines i want to state some of my personal experiences and opinions and hope that you understand my points.
let's start by comparing amigaos 3.9 with modern desktops like kde, gnome, beos, macos or qnx then i must say amigaos looks quite outdated and not innovative anymore. for example the icons look pixelized and ugly and the default programs are inconsistent by not following any serious human interface guides. some programs have strange icons on top of their window which should simulate a toolbar, some are using mui, some others the old gui and some are not really usable like the default calculator which only does some poor basic calculus and no science stuff. shell programs don't provide good informations about howto use them so people don't know what parameters they could enter. with the amithlon package there was also the picasso96 setup tool which looked horrible. big square ugly buttons on top and a blue background. the editor that came with amigaos has some ugly icons too. many applications don't provide any tooltips to signal their users what purpose the buttons have. even the default toolkit doesn't look attractive anymore. something that shouldn't be in a modern operating system that wants to get out of their little market niche. this is only a little example which can easily be extended, so please don't tie your feedback on these few aspects.
i really hope that the amigaos 4.0 or morphos team don't do the same mistakes by simply copying things from one system to another "hacking" around and make "patchwork". i hope they start to innovate things. stuff like tcp/ip v6, using new technologies etc. - only to name a few. the community really needs some new innovations. something they could say "wow that's it".
a future for amiga can only be reached, by getting back old users and getting new customers. now you need to offer these people a reason why they should decide to switch back to a little niche community without professional applications, questionable future.
- how do you plan to make the new systems attractive for old users and for new possible customers ?
- how do you want to get these people when there are professional applications missing ?
- how do you want to compete with the open source community that offers a lot of powerful programs including the sources ?
a criteria for me to buy your hardware would basically depend on this.
- why should i pay amigacalc if i can use openoffice for free on linux ?
- why should i pay for amigasql if i can use postgresql or mysql for free on linux ?
not to mention that these projects are developed by many people on their free time. a lot of programs offered in the open source community can easily compete with commercial programs and some of them are setting new standards already.
on many amiga related mailinglists and newsforums i heard complaining people that got upset because the few remaining amiga companies don't provide any support for their software and i fear that if i gonna buy some amiga programs again that the development and support ends one day, maybe faster than i thought.
i saw that many people who still belive in amiga understood this situation and started to port open source programs to morphos (maybe soon on amigaos) which i call a good direction. on the long run this guarantees a long lifecycle for these programs because you can always continue working on it again and make it better. you don't need to fear that your beloved program dies one day.
i think we all should not just change the system, we should also take compromises between a good mixture of open source and commercialism. this is the only way to get users and that is one possible future for the amiga otherwise you will have a hard time competing with a big open source settled community better software vs. little community with commercial not so professional programs. i hope we all gonna learn and respect this one day and i see a good future for amiga like system, no matter which as long as people understand this and right now it looks cool with all the amazing ports.
i would be pleased to get some serious feedback from other people's opinion about what they think, how they see the future and how we could do our best to get it up again. please no immature replies.
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 1 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveW on 08-Nov-2002 22:40 GMT | Im sorry but I stopped reading what you said around the point where you
cited IPV6 as something that should be considered.
Do you know that it is not backwardly compatible and hardly suitable for
a desktop computer yet?
I mean sh!t we have only just started to release versions of CS/390 with it
in!
Imagine on Slashdot if we said "oh yes MOS1 supports IPV6!" you would get about a
hundred clueless posts doing Tim Taylor impressions and the remaining clued up
saying "IPV6, what can it connect to ... absolutely nuthin... (say it again)"
You are a consumer, vote with your wallet - your constructive criticism on the
beauty or otherwise of AOS3.9 is interest, your free software commentary although
not new in the slightest to these fora is also welcome.
But if you don't like what you see just walk away. The Amiga is playing catchup
at the moment, eventually it may lead but give it a chance :) |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 2 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by smithy on 08-Nov-2002 22:55 GMT | | You haven't mentioned AROS in your thoughts. |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 3 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Some Farker on 08-Nov-2002 23:12 GMT | >hello reader, i was an amiga user and quit some years ago, switched to linux >and use it today. i do development on linux, got used to open source and don't >miss anything. in the past couple of weeks new amiga hardware got announced >and made me get interested again. but i'm really worried in how companies will >reach new customers or getting their old people back. on the following lines i >want to state some of my personal experiences and opinions and hope that you >understand my points.
Wow, no Linux builds support a CAPSLOCK key? I knew you guys had a problem with drivers but...
Okay, now that I've gotten that out of my system...(really, it does make text terribly hard to read if you refuse to even capitalize "I").
>let's start by comparing amigaos 3.9 with modern desktops like kde, gnome, >beos, macos or qnx then i must say amigaos looks quite outdated and not >innovative anymore.
Okay. Let's take your argument here. Say you're sitting at a system loaded up with Linux, and it's your domain controller. Now, you've got to keep this system humming, and the last thing you want is a bunch of graphics and destkop toys, so you keep it CLI-only. I, a WinXP user, notice you sitting there at the system and a command prompt, and immediately think "Wow, he's using DOS. How dated. How powerless compared to my desktop."
Stupid? Yes. Ignorant? Yes. And in the same vein, so's your comment. You need to wake up and take a look at the various window-managers people are using on the Amiga platform. VERY impressive. Plus, with icon-import tools, they can have virtually (ha! no pun intended) any desktop look they want. Why, even when I was using the Amiga back in the early 1990's, various Icon packs were available for use with the Amiga desktop; MUI provides a much better look (opinions vary on this) when apps are created for use with it - IOW, you're wrong: the "default look" of 3.9 might be ugly to you, and indeed it's not very appealing to most anyone, but the fact is there's plenty of available tweaks to use to fix the thing with.
>this is only a little example which can easily be extended, so please don't >tie your feedback on these few aspects.
Well, it's a tad late for that - you spend a paragraph dissembling the whole Amiga GUI look and feel, then ask us not to comment on your criticism? BZZT.
>i really hope that the amigaos 4.0 or morphos team don't do the same mistakes >by simply copying things from one system to another "hacking" around and >make "patchwork". i hope they start to innovate things. stuff like tcp/ip v6, >using new technologies etc. - only to name a few. the community really needs >some new innovations. something they could say "wow that's it". a future for
Well, that's the trick, isn't it? Dave Haynie et. al., could probably tell you way more about the nuts and bolts behind the Amiga's original "Wow" factor than I, but it breaks down to a simple issue of time. As in, what *originally* gave the Amiga a "Wow" factor has had it's time; other platforms do it as well[1], and they don't cost nearly as much. So for many, it's now ease of use. For a smaller majority, it's different simply for the sake of *being different*; I know some people (I'm looking in your direction) who wouldn't touch Windows with a 10-foot pole for various reasons. They have AMDs, run Linux, use Raedon cards as opposed to nVidia, and for them, that's grand. There's a small minority of users who, even without the presence of the "wow" factor, will probably continue to use the Amiga...
>amiga can only be reached, by getting back old users and getting new >customers. now you need to offer these people a reason why they should decide >to switch back to a little niche community without professional applications, >questionable future.
What you're failing to see, (and likely so because you haven't followed the developments within the Amiga community) is that instead of now being in a state of stagnation as it had been for almost a decade, the Amiga is now in a state of *transition*. The PPC-POP motherboards from Eyetech/MAI and bPlan are *not* a stopping point. They are a direction. OS5 will, if it comes to fruition, be the "jump off point" for the convergence that the folks in Snoqualmie are aiming at. And guess what - Microsoft themselves are providing some of the impetus for that jump off. Funny old world, ain't it?
>- how do you plan to make the new systems attractive for old users and for new >possible customers ?
Old users as in "those who no longer use"? They would also be "new possible customers". You, as Linux user, have no doubt encountered folks who'd like to run a Non-X86 build of Linux - if they're going to buy a POP board, why not buy the Amigaone? An 800mhz box with a copy of OS4 is a fine way to get started. Dual boot, and presto. New Amiga user. No, it's not a perfect business model, but ultimately it's an inroad and *any* inroad for the Amiga is a good one at this juncture.
>- how do you want to get these people when there are professional applications >missing ?
That's one for the software companies that still might support the Amiga. How did IBM's PC get people before it even had an OS? Think about that. I hate to use the cliche' "If you build it they will come" but considering the partnership with Amiga that Microsoft has engaged in, in this case it might be factually true. While I'm 100% sure 99% of the Amiga users will greet this suggestion with distate, can an Amiga MSIE be that far off, realistically? AmigaWord? AmigaXL?[2]
>- how do you want to compete with the open source community that offers a lot >of powerful programs including the sources ?
Oh come on. Nobody believes the "open source" world can muster up anything other than a dull roar on the desktop. The best applications are still bought and paid for and professionally produced. 3d Studio Max, Maya, Office, any number of games. If you were to ask how the Amiga could compete with *that*, then it'd be worth arguing...
>a criteria for me to buy your hardware would basically depend on this.
The A1+OS4 is, as you should understand, a hobbyist's box. To keep the Amiga users focussed on something while OS5 gestates (if, indeed, it is to come). Thus, many Amiga users are content to use what tools they can convert over to this system. I also entreat you to take another look at the Amiga community and see what's out there. Lightwave, Imagine, CandyFactory - and those are just graphics programs. There's plenty to keep the *hobbyist* involved, and that's what this system is aimed at. Not Joe User, or the Sysadmin types (like yourself).
>- why should i pay amigacalc if i can use openoffice for free on linux ?
Don't. Why should you pay for Word if you can use OpenOffice? I don't use OpenOffice, I use Office 2000; and happily so. Lots of people prefer not to use OpenOffice. And it's not because they don't know about it, either.
>- why should i pay for amigasql if i can use postgresql or mysql for free on >linux ?
See above. Because it's all about *choice*. What would you have Amiga users do? Throw their boxen into the sea and give up?
>not to mention that these projects are developed by many people on their free >time. a lot of programs offered in the open source community can easily >compete with commercial programs and some of them are setting new standards >already.
Name them. Name the 100% free, open-source 3d rendering tool that sets a new standard over Bryce, 3ds Max, Maya, etc. ad infinitum.
>on many amiga related mailinglists and newsforums i heard complaining people >that got upset because the few remaining amiga companies don't provide any >support for their software and i fear that if i gonna buy some amiga programs >again that the development and support ends one day, maybe faster than i t>hought.
That's a short list, and the developers are notably reviled by the Amiga community. DCE's (non) support and virtual black hole of (non) repair, a few software companies, etc. Who built your kernel? Called them on the phone for some advice lately?
>i saw that many people who still belive in amiga understood this situation and >started to port open source programs to morphos (maybe soon on amigaos) which >i call a good direction. on the long run this guarantees a long lifecycle for >these programs because you can always continue working on it again and make it >better. you don't need to fear that your beloved program dies one day.
Um.
Programs don't "die". If you're talking about a showstopping bug, they typically do that from day one. Again, 99% of the remaning developers in the Amiga community do so out of a sense of community experience and *don't* piss of the folks who are left.
>i think we all should not just change the system, we should also take >compromises between a good mixture of open source and commercialism.
I don't agree. Businesses, my dear fellow, need money to function. "Doing it for free" doesn't fly. How much cash has Redhat burned through thus far? Obviously they (a linux distro house) aren't doing it for free.
>this is the only way to get users and that is one possible future for the >amiga otherwise you will have a hard time competing with a big open source >settled community better software vs. little community with commercial not so >professional programs.
Nope. I, as a programmer, would want to be *paid* for my work. The support of the community doesn't put dollar one in my account and thus food on my table.
I've seen ****FAR**** too many "open source" projects that are great sounding ideas that are abandoned because the author has a "real life" and they must attend to *that* first. Take a look at Terragen on the PC platform. Wonderful 3d terrain rendering program. Ask the author what comes first - freeware software development or working at Lightstorm entertainment.
[1]A minority of rabid diehards will go to their graves screaming otherwise, but oh well, that's why they're diehards...
[2] I suspect just by suggesting that, there are some folks who will, in their broken engrish, start raving about "mickeyshit" and "fuk that softwarez I will p1rate it to NE one to bring down microsoft" etc. etc. (And it might be relevant to point out that these idiots will be shooting the Amiga square in the forehead if they do, but that's another flamewar...) |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 4 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Xisp on 08-Nov-2002 23:57 GMT | Open-Source is a good idea but you cannot make stand the whole thing
on it. Commercial software must (still) be present on a platform to
consider it "alive".
There has been a lot of discussion about doing
ports of Big Free Software apps (Mozilla, OpenOffice...) for Amiga.
The conclusion was that it supposed a lot of work, and also it meant
to adapt the system for that purpose, sacrificing, in the way, much
of the Amiga "character": Features that come from Amiga's inherent
nature and cannot be separated from it, because then it would lose
what makes it "different", in essence, what makes it "Amiga".
The Amiga platform could embrace some open-sourced software code, but
it should be adapted, filtered in some way, so Amiga does not lose its
"Spirit", and gains modern functionality.
Your suggestions do not come as new for us: The system needs improvement. But
we wouldn't support it at all if all we wanted was to run ported
GPL-and-other-herbs apps on it. Our main objective is bringing the
Amiga-way-of-doing-things(TM) to new hardware.
We firstly wanted a port of the antique platform to modern
hardware architectures (PPC mainly, as time goes by, x86 should also be
invited later, IMHO). Hyperion is doing it. This is the first phase. Next level
begins when AmigaOS4 hits reality. Then we will be in a position where
we can determine what makes Amiga an Amiga (because this is VEEERY subjective),
and we can start to transform the platform in something new, and innovate.
Amiga has an especial character and if it is not preserved, it is a useless
effort to support it. If Amiga is to be enhanced, it must be done in the
Amiga way. Apps must be coherent with the system it runs on, those can
be open-source, of course, but if they are not coherent with Amiga, then
we better switch to Linux and forget it all.
I prefer Aweb to be empowered, rather than modifying AmigaOS GUI to make
GTK port easy to make Mozilla port less a pain. |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 5 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Dagon (HELLAS) on 09-Nov-2002 05:01 GMT | ---
why should i pay amigacalc if i can use openoffice for free on linux ?
why should i pay for amigasql if i can use postgresql or mysql for free on linux ?
---
Because I want people to develop programs for my favorite operating system?
And they `ll do it if I start buying their products?
Maybe because I want to run AmigaOS instead of Linux? |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 6 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kjetil on 09-Nov-2002 05:02 GMT | Like you I don't know if I'm going
to get may self an new AmigaOne,
it is quit tempting and I do follow the Amiga news,
an think of it as inspiring that that have
managed to keep so many user, while the an
new Amiga computer has failed over and over again,
the founded where not so grate, even so AmigaInc as
managed to pay developers to bring an
new computer to the marked, they have given hyperian,
the room they need to make an new AmigaOS,
>let's start by comparing amigaos 3.9 with modern
>desktops like kde, gnome, beos, macos or qnx then
>i must say amigaos looks quite outdated and not
>innovative anymore. for example
>the icons look pixelized and ugly
Well you can't run OS3.9 on AmigaOne,
we do not know how OS4.0 will look, OS4.0 is seed to be skin-able,
an about the icons, have you ever try-ed to change
the screen resolution to some thing more than 640x480
pixels screens ?
PS I remember copying Windows icons and converting
them to newicons, ugly are you taking about the 4 color
icons of 3.1?
About how the desktop looks, I can only say that
is going to look better, even so the desktop is not
going to be better then OS3.9, as the hyperian coder say it's crap.
this will be changed in OS4.1 so you may as well wait if you relay
need an perfect desktop system, even so OS3.5 as I
have used is a Lot better to use then OS3.1,
>i really hope that the amigaos 4.0 or morphos team don't do
>the same mistakes by simply copying things from one system
>to another "hacking" around and make "patchwork". i hope they
>start to innovate things. stuff like tcp/ip v6, using new technologies etc
MorphOs is basically is patch or API wrapper for an otter os,
then it uses JIT-emulation to convert 68k apps to PPC,
and it uses wrapper for WUP and POP apps as well,
So morph os is basically has no complete kernel of it's own.
on the otter hand you have AmigaOS4.0, it's basically the 68k
kennel translated to C and compiled for PPC with improvements,
this brings the Amiga API closer to the hardware level,
it is sad to be faster then QNX kennel, not bad.
and the latency will be allot better the MorphOS.
-- This is an argument for any company that need realtime handling
I know in side the linux community there is an argument about
Memory protection vs real time preferments, and many company's are making their
programs as kernel modules to avid the memory protection and give tier apps more speed.
Whit the Amiga OS you can turn on and off memory protection at will, no kernel hacking.
> how do you plan to make the new systems attractive for
> old users and for new possible customers ?
many user left the Amiga market, when they found
that the speed where lacking it now be fixed,
so the software companies that used to make programs
for Amiga can now take advantage for new speed,
swap space and memory protection while the are developing programs.
> how do you want to get these people when
> there are professional applications missing ?
first the developers then the users, and if you are real amiga user
you don't care it's all about having the tools make the software
that is for me at least
> how do you want to compete with the open source community
> that offers a lot of powerful programs including the sources ?
the fine thing about open source is that they can be ported,
to any system, well it all depends on the founding when it comes to large GPL programs.
> why should i pay amigacalc if i can use openoffice for free on linux ?
> why should i pay for amigasql if i can use postgresql or mysql for free on linux ?
You can't use LinuxPPC apps in AmigaOS4.0 so if you like AmigaOS, then you must bay
on them otter hand you can use you're AmigaOne as an LinuxServer.
>not to mention that these projects are developed by many people on their free time.
>a lot of programs offered in the open source community can easily compete with
>commercial programs and some of them are setting new standards already.
They are mostly founded by advertisement, And most of them are
Open Source Licensed not an GPL,
>.... Bla.. Bla.. "don't provide any support" ... bla... ..bla...
You do not get support in linux if you do not have copy of redhat you pay-ed for.
news groups and howto's are free and so are AmigaGuide doc's
> open source programs to morphos
You mean GPL programs ported from linux, yes I do agree with you there. |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 7 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bladerunner on 09-Nov-2002 05:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 6 (Kjetil):
>MorphOs is basically is patch or API wrapper for an otter os,
>then it uses JIT-emulation to convert 68k apps to PPC,
>and it uses wrapper for WUP and POP apps as well,
>So morph os is basically has no complete kernel of it's own.
You really should inform yourself before writing misinformations...
BTW, OS 4 uses a jit aswell for 68k Apps and has also n WOS warpper..
And have you ever heard from the Quark kernel? Did you even notice that there is no
Amiga OS Part in MOS? Sure MOS goes a different way to get the same result, but why not?
Ever thought of the posibillity to make other "boxes" then the A-Box? Why not make a B-Box running on top of Quark,
for running BeOS apps? Or make other OS Boxes? Ok, I am not sure about that, but if it is possible to run eg.
the B-Box as task within the A-Box, so you are able to use Programms for the other OS within your Preferd Box
Ok, this is just how I imagine the Box Concept of MOS, someone has to correct me if I am wrong, but it is for sure
that MOS is not just a wrapper, as it brings its own improvment to the "boxes" eg A-Box which has many Improvments to the original
Amiga OS. |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 8 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 05:50 GMT | | IMO: MOS has nothing of it's own. The only purpose of MOS1 will be to run AmigaOS applications. Almost none of the kernel features of www.morphos.de is used. There's nothing running in the Q-Box itself, ported apps have not been ported to Q-Box. |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 9 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by ShadesOfGrey on 09-Nov-2002 06:15 GMT | It's a bit surprising how AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS are perceived by those outside the 'Amiga Community' (and some within I suppose). As if some how they were intended to go head to head with WinXP and MacOS 10.2 right off the bat. WinXP and MacOS X have been in constant development (depending on how you define constant) for over a decade. That is considering that WinXP is derived primarily from NT and secondarily from Win9x. And that MacOS X is derived from NEXT/OPENSTEP and BSD. On the other hand AmigaOS has been pretty much orphaned since version 3.1 developed by Commodore...
Yes we got 3.5 and 3.9 from Haage & Partner. I believe most would agree though, that these are smaller incremental steps than their version numbers actually reflect. Especially when 3.5 (3.3?) and 3.9 (3.5?) relied heavily on the integration of third party software into the OS. I'm not criticizing those third party apps. All I'm saying is they were used as something of a shortcut and were not as polished as they could have been. The fact is that since eight or so years 3.1 was released, AmigaOS has had two, perhaps three, years worth of full time development.
Now with the AmigaOne we will see AmigaOS 4 (hopefully in the next 3-4 months). But what is AmigaOS 4? It's AmigaOS 3.9 with its core re-written in C and ported to the PPC. There are some additional features that weren't expected until 4.2... Arguably with the delay of 4.0, 4.0 might as well be 4.2. But that's beside the point. The fact is 4.0 is meant as a transitional release from the 68k platform to the PPC. It's not going to 'look pretty' (at least not the way Garth seems to want it to) and it's not going to be as 'advanced' as other OS's (i.e. no IPv6). But then again, I don't recall Apple making great leaps and bounds in MacOS while transitioning from 68k either.
As for the Pegasos and MorphOS, they are pretty much in the same boat as the A1 and AOS4... Both are initial releases of hardware and OS's attempting to transition from the 'old' 68k Amiga environment to a new PPC Amiga(like) environment. I don't think we should expect bells and whistles until both options have been thoroughly field tested. Not unless we want both to end up behaving like WinME.
As for the application front... The Amiga has some real gems that most people outside the Amiga Community don't even know about. Just take a look at ImageFX, Photogenics (also available on Linux & Windows), Perfect Paint, Imagine, PageStream (also available on Linux, Mac & Windows), or ProStationAudio. These applications are a base on which we need to build for sure. But too many people sell the Amiga short when it comes to "professional" software.
With regard to open source software, it might shock you to learn the Amiga platform utilizes many open source projects. Prime example of which are MySQL and Apache. That isn't to say that the Amiga could not compete against open source software with comparable (value added) commercial software. I don't believe there are open source equivalents to the Amiga software mentioned above... Well maybe GIMP graphics, but what use is GIMP if there isn't an easy way to draw a simple circle??? That's certainly the case in the Windows port. Since I have Photogenics, I haven't bothered to mess around with the latest Linux version. Photogenics is (IMHO) far more fun then GIMP anyway.
In closing, I suspect we'll start to see the sort of improvements Garth is after by the release of AOS 4.5 and MorphOS 1.5... If only they are given the chance to get off the ground. |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 10 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bladerunner on 09-Nov-2002 08:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (priest):
I think thats a big prblem at all.. You shouldn`t spread your Opinion without Information...
For example, if i say "all americans are fat and stupid (before someone complain, this is realy just an example NOT my opinion)
That doesn`t make it true.
Same goes for MOS.. you can`t say that it has nothing of its own, simply, because that`s not true..simple..
And of course its first purpose is to rebuild an Amiga Api, this is why it was invented long before the work for OS 4.0 has begun
(Remember, when the Work for Mos began the offical Statement was, no PPC AmigaOS!)
OK, now we are going to have OS 4.0 but why the hell should MOS have stopped their development?
Give them a try, or just inform yourself, but don`t spread misleading Opinions... |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 11 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bladerunner on 09-Nov-2002 08:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (priest):
I think thats a big prblem at all.. You shouldn`t spread your Opinion without Information...
For example, if i say "all americans are fat and stupid (before someone complain, this is realy just an example NOT my opinion)
That doesn`t make it true.
Same goes for MOS.. you can`t say that it has nothing of its own, simply, because that`s not true..simple..
And of course its first purpose is to rebuild an Amiga Api, this is why it was invented long before the work for OS 4.0 has begun
(Remember, when the Work for Mos began the offical Statement was, no PPC AmigaOS!)
OK, now we are going to have OS 4.0 but why the hell should MOS have stopped their development?
Give them a try, or just inform yourself, but don`t spread misleading Opinions... |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 12 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Darren Glenn (Ryu) on 09-Nov-2002 09:59 GMT | | Am I the only one that can't be bothered to read long posts? :-) |
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| How does the future look ? : Comment 13 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 11:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 10 (Bladerunner):
>I think thats a big prblem at all.. You shouldn`t spread your Opinion without Information...
There is no information, other than the misleading/unclear information at various places like morphos.de.
They will not be releasing a new modern OS, but a AmigaOS emulating box instead.
(like Amithlon, except that Linux will not be build later around the Amithlon kernel)
>And of course its first purpose is to rebuild an Amiga Api, this is why it was invented long before the work for OS 4.0 has begun
A lot of people are lured to think that MorphOS1.0 will contain things hinted here and there (like the list of kernel features at morphos.de, warp3d support,...), even though a lot of it will not be in MorphOS1.0. No memory protection, no SMP, no warp3d on modern GFX card, etc...
According the same methode one could add all AmigaOS5 features to the OS4 feature list!
>(Remember, when the Work for Mos began the offical Statement was, no PPC AmigaOS!)
Sure.
>OK, now we are going to have OS 4.0 but why the hell should MOS have stopped their development?
There is no reason. I just wish they would admit their agenda behind it all... |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 14 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 09-Nov-2002 12:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (priest):
MOS_1.0 HAS a W3D-replacement and it works accerlareted with Voodoo3,Permedi and SiS just like
the W3D-version that will come with AOS4. Radeon-support will be added later, again just like
AOS4.
MOS_1.0 HAS VM !!
No (and I mean NO) OS designed to run "classic" Amiga-apps will be capable of having real memory-
protection. The socalled MP in AOS4 is just the same as enforcer under AOS3.x, and I see no problem
why it shouldn't be possible for MOS.
And according to your logic DrDos was never a real OS, but just an MS-DOS-emulator ?
Get real, it is not an emulator (but includes one), it is not a virtual maschine (but can be used
as one), it is an Amiga-API-compatible-OS with legacy support, and API-extensions.
There is no reason why MUI couldn't be freeed from AmigaOS-messaging, which would allow it's use
in a "Q/Box", with real memory-prtection and smp-support. You couldn't run legacy apps in that box,
but it would still be quite easy to port existing Amiga-apps to it.
Or do you want to tell me AROS is only an OS because it does not have legacy-support ? |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 15 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by m0ns00n on 09-Nov-2002 12:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 3 (Some Farker):
Bah. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 16 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by cOrpse on 09-Nov-2002 12:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (priest):
"There is no reason. I just wish they would admit their agenda behind it all..."
They probably will never admit that ... but you got to admit there’s some sort of conspiracy going on e.g. DCE looking after they Phase5 production line so it didn't get taken away by creditors and certain people turning up on the Amiga scene after failing to buy it many moons ago ... |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 17 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by m0ns00n on 09-Nov-2002 12:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (priest):
It is funny, but so much for the guy's "no immature comments" please. Kids. I fear the platform you will stear. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 18 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by André Siegel on 09-Nov-2002 12:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 14 (Anonymous):
"maschine"
Is that you, Kronos? ;))) |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 19 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 09-Nov-2002 12:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 18 (André Siegel):
Yup, also note the underscore in "MOS_1.0". :-)
But that doesn't make him any less right in what he says. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 20 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by tony on 09-Nov-2002 12:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 14 (Anonymous):
someone oughta check their sources....
where is mosv1.0? and where is the w3d?
and what about this so called mosV1.0 shipping with pegasos now..., if mos team keep this speed up, then i guess MOS 2003 would be very shortly
ie MOS V1.0 ,1.1 , 1.2 etc ...no final versions.
its not a flame but its rather confusing to see adverts selling mosV1.0 and pegasos and its BETA,
so soon there will be like MOSv1.9879087098798798979 ALpha i guess..
i have no clue on what to buy when it comes to MOS and its plattform and i guess MANY other share this op.
when it comes to Radeon drivers as u speak of..... Os4 has radeon drivers for AMIGAONE , and how in the world would u make this driver for a 68k when a voodoo3 wont even justify it?
Get real, in the end we will know for sure..
this flame MOS vs AOS4 is getting abit old, its about time all cards was just put out and playing open.
pps: how many developers have stopped beliving in MOS by now? , and how many stopped beliving in OS4 before woase 2002 ?
What does the future bring? , instead of f.c.ing it all up why not just be friends?...
signed: an rather upset AMIGA (ONLY) user |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 21 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by KenH on 09-Nov-2002 12:59 GMT | | One advantage of starting late on an OS compared to Windows and MacOS is that you can tackle the foundation of the OS with modern methods. Also there aren't as many legacy problems to deal with. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 22 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 09-Nov-2002 13:00 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (tony):
MOS V1 is what everybody has who has a Pegasos, and it does include a W3D-wrapper.
The OS4-Radeon-2D-drivers are made by Forefront, but are not finished yet.
The W3D-Radeon-drivers will be made by Hyperion after they got the 2D-drivers,
and when they have time for it (after the OS4.00000000000 is finished.).
Don't know why you babble about 68k as these drivers ARE developed on OS3.x
with PCI-expansion (Prometheus the most likely option). |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 23 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 13:12 GMT | In reply to Comment 14 (Anonymous):
>MOS_1.0 HAS a W3D-replacement
Oh really?
Why doesn't Titan Computer have it for their game development?
>and it works accerlareted with Voodoo3,Permedi and SiS just like
the W3D-version that will come with AOS4. Radeon-support will be added later, again just like AOS4.
Where do you read all that?
(I know that the new features of Radeon cards are not used with the warp3d, though.)
>MOS_1.0 HAS VM !!
Yes, I know. And there's life beyond that.
How does the MOS VM work?
One could think that it is for all apps in the A-Box? (like in AmigaXL)
Or is it per task like with VMM/GigaMem?
Or is it optional per application like in OS4?
>No (and I mean NO) OS designed to run "classic" Amiga-apps will be capable of having real memory-protection.
This should be said in morphos.de so that people would not think that they'll can enjoy Quark kernel feature in MorphOS1.0.
>The socalled MP in AOS4 is just the same as enforcer under AOS3.x,
As far as I understand it, that's not true.
And anyway, that's not the point.
>and I see no problem why it shouldn't be possible for MOS.
More bullshit, this makes me pissed off....
Is it done or is it not?
Will MorphOS buyers have it in MorphOS1.0 or not?
For the f*ck sake, a lot of people are telling Joe Averages to buy betatester boxes, even though features are nowhere to be seen!!!
>And according to your logic DrDos was never a real OS, but just an MS-DOS-emulator ?
Well, I bet people knew what they were buying...
>Get real, it is not an emulator (but includes one), it is not a virtual maschine (but can be used as one), it is an Amiga-API-compatible-OS with legacy support, and API-extensions.
"Under the Quark kernel a PowerPC(TM) native reimplementation of the OS we know from the Commodore(TM) A1000, A500, A2000, A1200, A3000(T) and A4000(T) systems runs as a mixture of a virtual emulation and a driver. We call this OS driver from now on the A-Box"
Favorite kid has many nicnames.
btw. what are the features of the PPC kernell or the "The new native PPC Exec" of the A-Box? Those are the actual kernell features usable in the MorphOS1.0, right?
>There is no reason why MUI couldn't be freeed from AmigaOS-messaging, which would allow it's use in a "Q/Box", with real memory-prtection and smp-support. You couldn't run legacy apps in that box, but it would still be quite easy to port existing Amiga-apps to it.
But it seems that MorphOS 1.0 user or developer get's no benefit of Q-Box features...
Good as long as people are not lured to think that they get all that when they buy MorphOS.
The full featurelist needs to be brought public, and perhaps a roadmap of how MorphOS will be developed beyond AmigaOS compatibility box.
>Or do you want to tell me AROS is only an OS because it does not have legacy-support ?
AROS is a lot more clear case and the information is openly available. It does not pretend to be a new modern OS. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 24 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 13:17 GMT | In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
>MOS V1 is what everybody has who has a Pegasos, and it does include a W3D-wrapper.
Wrap to what?
Wrap to Rave3D?
Rave3D already has 100% Warp3D functionality?
Where's the information?
Those are just things that need to be clarified. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 25 of 122 | ANN.lu |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 26 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Nov-2002 13:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (priest):
No Warp3D on modern GFX cards? Where the fuck did you read that shit?
No memory protection? Outside the A/Box there IS memory protection, when
you crash, only the A/Box crashes, in A/Box there is an Enforcer style system.
There is no way to implement true Memory protection in AmigaOS while maintaing
compatability with the old apps. Even AmigaOS itself will be broken if you
use MemProt (*MSGPort and SEVERAL other stuff will cease to work).
No SMP? Sure, OS4 doesn't have it either. It's planned in both OSes |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 27 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 13:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 25 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
MorphOS1.0 release will be this: http://www.morphos.de/a-box.php3 right?
And someday... "Because we believe that the original OS design has strong limits for newer technology through its design structure, we also plan a completly fresh and clean OS layer on top of the Quark kernel (called Q-Box now). " ? |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 28 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Nov-2002 13:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 23 (priest):
Oh really?
Why doesn't Titan Computer have it for their game development?
--
Are you drunk, or pretending to be? Cause the W3D wrapper is there only
for compatability, people should use either Rave3D or OGL for their apps
and the ogl port is not 100% done.
About VM, like OS4.
And yes, there's NO WAY to implement true memory protection is ANY AmigaOS
compatible OS. You would have to change the AmigaOS API DRAMATICALLY, break
all compatability and use a sandbox for old apps, what MOS is going to do...
Wrap to what?
Wrap to Rave3D?
Yes.
Rave3D already has 100% Warp3D functionality?
Of course, Multitexturing. It uses a different concept though, it's up to each
developer to decide which is best for them.
Where's the information?
In the brains of most MorphOS using people. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 29 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 13:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 26 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>No Warp3D on modern GFX cards? Where the fuck did you read that shit?
Warp3D is the driver for certain 3D HW. The latest HW Warp3D directly supports is Voodoo3.
Voodoo3(or 4 or 5) is not a modern 3D gfx card.
You have the possibility to prove otherwise. ;-)
>No memory protection? Outside the A/Box there IS memory protection, when
you crash, only the A/Box crashes, in A/Box there is an Enforcer style system.
What runs outside A-Box?
So far I have heard that every current "MorphOS" application is actually a A-Box application.
Even Ambient the damn GUI of the whole MorphOS seem to run in the A-Box (re: WOASE crashes).
Have I been misinformed?
You have the possibility to prove...
>There is no way to implement true Memory protection in AmigaOS while maintaing
compatability with the old apps.
I know.
"The A-Box API was nice in its time, but today it has serious limitations because it doesn't hide OS structures and has no concept of memory ownership."
(I bet that funny line is a result of search&replace operation of the word "AmigaOS")
I only wish a decent feturelist of working/usable/available MorphOS1.0 (preferably Betatester2) features would be published.
>...
>No SMP? Sure, OS4 doesn't have it either. It's planned in both OSes
I bet a lot of MOS fans do not know that.
There is no decent place for the information.
I think that applications that are have been developed to MorphOS run in the A-Box and will not be able to use SMP, but is it really so?
FACTS and INFORMATION please! What do those people get who are lured to buy betatesters?
r.
priest
btw. I found these very funny: http://www.videomicrowave.net/ why not a vacuum-cleaner, oh sorry, that's preserved for merlancia... ;-) |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 30 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 13:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 28 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"In the brains of most MorphOS using people. "
LOL!!!
Right, no reason to know what one buys, just pour the money to those trustable fellows... totall bullshit everywhere.
And still people buy betatester packages???? ???????? |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 31 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Nov-2002 14:00 GMT | In reply to Comment 29 (priest):
Ehm, sorry to break your illusion, but what is emulated is the Warp3D.library,
not it's driver systems. Every call that calls Warp3D(PPC).library calls the
wrapper library which calls Rave3D instead of the Warp3D driver system. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 32 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Nov-2002 14:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 30 (priest):
ASK GOD DAMN IT! ASK WHAT YOU WANT TO KNOW TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE (Thendic) AND
YOU'LL GET THE INFO YOU WANT!
The only BULLSHIT is in YOUR HEAD. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 33 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Nov-2002 14:07 GMT | In reply to Comment 30 (priest):
Do you see me running around posting bullshit about OS4 without knowing
anything about it? No.
Do the same. Get informed or stop spreading your misinformed bullshit... |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 34 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 14:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 28 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>>Oh really?
>>Why doesn't Titan Computer have it for their game development?
>Are you drunk, or pretending to be?
No, just some MOS hangover.
>Cause the W3D wrapper is there only for compatability,
Wrappers need something to wrap to, right?
Like DirectX wrapper wraps/maps the 3D function calls to the OpenGL counterparts.
>people should use either Rave3D or OGL for their apps and the ogl port is not 100% done.
Why doesn't Titan Computer use Rave3D then?
Do you have Rave3D?
Can you run 3D accelerated Quake2 on Radeon7000 series of cards?
Or should the buyers be notified that they will not be able to play a single 3D game if they buy pegasos with Radeon7500 from KDH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>About VM, like OS4.
WOW I did not know that?
So applications can choose from swappable and non-swappable memory... RIGHT?
>>Rave3D already has 100% Warp3D functionality?
>Of course, Multitexturing. It uses a different concept though, it's up to each
developer to decide which is best for them.
What GFX cards does Rave3D support?
I think vgr.com pages for rave3D were updated some years ago and the support was around virge... |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 35 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by David Scheibler on 09-Nov-2002 14:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 34 (priest):
>Why doesn't Titan Computer use Rave3D then?
Rave3D is a low level API (like Warp3D), you can't compare this to OpenGL. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 36 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Nov-2002 14:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 34 (priest):
Wrappers need something to wrap to, right?
Like DirectX wrapper wraps/maps the 3D function calls to the OpenGL counterparts.
--
Read my FUCKING comments before posting. R.A.V.E.3D!
Why doesn't Titan Computer use Rave3D then?
--
Cause they are waiting for OGL instead.
Do you have Rave3D?
--
Yes, OF COURSE.
Can you run 3D accelerated Quake2 on Radeon7000 series of cards?
--
The Radeon series Rave3D drivers are not ready yet, they are in development.
Virge, SiS 6326, SiS 307, Voodoo 3, 4, 5.
Or should the buyers be notified that they will not be able to play a single 3D game if they buy pegasos with Radeon7500 from KDH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
Or should you be notified that the driver is in development?
WOW I did not know that?
So applications can choose from swappable and non-swappable memory... RIGHT?
--
Right. Troll...
What GFX cards does Rave3D support?
I think vgr.com pages for rave3D were updated some years ago and the support was around virge...
Read above... |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 37 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 14:30 GMT | Well... I knew ann is the wrong place to search any real MOS information, so I quit.
http://www.pegasosppc.com says the following:
"MorphOS may not be ready for regular computer users, but it is ready for developers."
Ready for SOME developers.
Why do people push pegasos machines to regular users then... |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 38 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Nov-2002 14:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 37 (priest):
For expert users, betatesters and MOST developers, not SOME developers.
Now get back to your church. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 39 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 14:34 GMT | In reply to Comment 37 (priest):
Ooops, it seems that Alkis and David did provide some usable information.
Thanks. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 40 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 09-Nov-2002 14:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 1 (DaveW):
I use IPv6 on daily basis, so boo hiss on you. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 41 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by reflect on 09-Nov-2002 15:31 GMT | @Alkis
actually, I think that he does make a few points. As a user, I tried to get information both about pegasos and morphos from the sites (as that is my main source of information when I look at product, I usually don't send mails to the company in question).
on the bplan page, it says the cpu runs at 350MHz and it was updated about a year ago. that makes me wonder what else might have changed in the hardware layout. I don't trust the information there anymore.
on the morphos page, the last news was posted also a year ago..
thendic's pages says very little about pegasos/mos last time I checked.
It is not easy to obtain the information if the pages are not updated, especially now when machines are shipped to betatesters.
I don't critisize you, I'm just pointing out that the pages are very old and as a potential user, it isn't that easy to find the information I want.
I hope you see my point in this. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 42 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by reflect on 09-Nov-2002 15:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 41 (reflect):
seems like thendic's pages are now updated.. I stand corrected on that point.
but that's really not the point.. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 43 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dammy on 09-Nov-2002 15:52 GMT | In reply to Comment 5 (Dagon (HELLAS)):
That's great you want to support your favorite OS, but how likely that others, in significant numbers will shell out $ for amigasql? Worse yet, how many of the few thousand that buy a POP system (be it bPlan or Eyetech) are going are willing to pay for it as well? I'd say the total number is "Not Economically Viable."
Dammy |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 44 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by David Scheibler on 09-Nov-2002 15:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 41 (reflect):
>on the bplan page, it says the cpu runs at 350MHz and it was updated about a
>year ago. that makes me wonder what else might have changed in the hardware
>layout. I don't trust the information there anymore.
If you come to this conclusion, then you should read it again. It doesn't say
what you just posted. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 45 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by reflect on 09-Nov-2002 16:05 GMT | In reply to Comment 44 (David Scheibler):
I talked to them about this some time ago, and they seem to have updated.
I did alot of checking around in september and talked to one of the people that codes MOS about this, among other things. Then you could find almost no information whatsoever on MOS or pegasos that you would have thought was reliable.
I can see why people are confused and why they feel there's no information around. If you've been to a site 10 times just to find out that they do not update with information, you don't go there again. The harder it is to find information about some product, the more likely it is that you drop the whole concept. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 46 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kjetil on 09-Nov-2002 16:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (Bladerunner):
>You really should inform yourself before writing misinformations...
Kick me down, if you will, I have the right to say what I like,
even if i favor AmigaOS4.0, over Morphos.
>BTW, OS 4 uses a jit as well for 68k Apps and has also n WOS wrapper..
>And have you ever heard from the Quark kernel? Did you even notice that there is no
>Amiga OS Part in MOS? Sure MOS goes a different way to get the same result, but why not?
Yes it uses an Jit-just like MorphOS, I where thinking it where hardy worth masoning when
we are after all moving to ExecSG kernel, an bout the Quark kernel
they are not using it directly, the have some thing called an war per whet translate
the Amiga library's Input/Output to the qurakkernel, I Allow my self to say it adds latency,
I do not know if MOS can or can not make use of more the none
processor it all depends if morphos, start one Quark task for every MorphOS task or if MorphOS if self
run as one task on the quark kernel, and MorphOS manage the task by it self.
You can not argue over the fact of the Latency, so it will not bring the same result as they are doing
it in different way and different code gives different preference.
If I ignore this fact about the latency for an while and take about what MorphOS enables,
then i can agree that MorphOS gives the same result by the fact that it
gives you the option to run 68k programs and PPC programs,
if we take about the comparability of this products do you think Q-Box
is going to bring it closer to the H-Box? I do not.
(I'm not against coding programs that uses the Amiga API,
it only brings fruit to Amiga API (compatibels?), they are making there software portable)
If MorphOS is going to earn my respect they need to remove the
Quarck kernel an do the low-level stuff they skipped.
>Ever thought of the possibility to make other "boxes" then the A-Box? Why not make a B-Box running on top of Quark,
>for running BeOS apps? Or make other OS Boxes?
Like you're idea how ever an Sandbox can be made for any kernel,
even linux and they call that Amitalon, You know they are adding
Java and AmigaDe comparability later to the AmigaOS4.x series.
>I imagine the Box Concept of MOS, someone has to correct me if I am wrong,
>but it is for sure that MOS is not just a wrapper, as it brings its own improvement
>to the "boxes" eg A-Box which has many Improvements to the original Amiga OS.
It's in relevant even AmigaOS4.0 has many Improvements to the original Amiga OS.
And I where tying to cut down of number of written lines, and I where trying to
simplify my comment so that outsider can understand the difference. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 47 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by David Scheibler on 09-Nov-2002 16:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 45 (reflect):
>I did alot of checking around in september and talked to one of the people
>that codes MOS about this, among other things. Then you could find almost no
>information whatsoever on MOS or pegasos that you would have thought was
>reliable.
Absolutly correct. However this will change when the feature list of MorphOS will be released. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 48 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 09-Nov-2002 16:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 45 (reflect):
That's right.
I had been digging out MOS information from all of the available web sites and finally it all just collapset. There's huge amount of conflicts in the information.
(it feels that some information is kept secret because it would harm pegasos sales while some information is kept secret even though it would help the sales)
Same goes for Amiga Inc & AmigaDE information.
OS4 information is slightly easier to find, even though a lot of open issues exists there as well. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 49 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 09-Nov-2002 16:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 45 (reflect):
Yes, I see this the same as you. On the one Hand they like to sell their products to a wide userbase and on the other Hand they don't come up with serious information related to their Operating System. I'm quite confused. The Hardware now got publicated into detail but personally I don't want to look at the Hardware all the time. I plan to use the Operating System with it's applications. Therefore I would welcome if the MorphOS and AmigaOS people would start to update their Websites with Screenshots, Information etc. Exactly now where people tend to get interested again they want to inform themselves so where to get that information. It's sad that some companies still act like it's top secret or something while on the otherhand they allow people to play with the Operating System on WOA 2002.
A good Operating System for me should be consistent, contain a FileManager (like Dopus Magellan II, maybe a bit more enchanced), eMailer, Webbrowser, Editor to get basic things done.
- FileManager to get some insight of my Operating System,
- eMailer to get in contact with people (e.g. Hotline for service issues),
- Webbrowser to get updates from the net and basic tools.
You know everything you need to survive out of nothing. Let's say I use AmigaOS or MorphOS only, no other computer, no other Operating System. I need to be able to reach the outer world. |
|
| How does the future look ? : Comment 50 of 122 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 09-Nov-2002 16:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 1 (DaveW):
"Im sorry but I stopped reading what you said around the point where you
cited IPV6 as something that should be considered.
Do you know that it is not backwardly compatible and hardly suitable for
a desktop computer yet? "
Excuse me?
IPV6 is absolutely 100% guaranteed compatible with IPV4. ALL IPV4 traffic will route over IPV6 networks with no problems whatsoever.
It's designed that way. After all, it woudl be a pretty stupid move to make the new IP system incompatible with the existing old system.
And why, exactly, is supporting the future internet protocol "unstiotable" for a desktop computer? |
|
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