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[News] Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for PoseidonANN.lu
Posted on 14-Nov-2002 14:43 GMT by Chris Hodges159 comments
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Poseidon will refuse to load the usb.device with the next update. I could verify that the offensive RDB-killer code is inside the driver version (1.2) I had here. Permission to distribute Poseidon with their software has been withdrawn. Dear Poseidon Users,

in the last few days, there were rumours posted to ann.lu, claiming that the usb.device, that is provided by Elbox Computer Inc. for the Spider USB PCI card would contain malicious code. This code was posted disassembled on various websites. This source code, if assemblied into an executable, would indeed have the ability to kill the RDB (if it was found in block 0). Code destroying data on purpose like this is illegal in most countries (including Germany) and moreover, is one of the ethically worst things I've ever seen.

As the source of this security warning was an anonymous poster and therefore was not reliable, I wanted to check for myself. So I loaded the usb.device (some friendly Mediator user sent me, as Elbox never offered me a SpiderCD to check the contents of the CD), let it decrypt itself and just searched for the 'RDSK' string in the driver (as seen on the disassembled source code on the websites). No disassembly was used. The string was found. I could therefore verify that the offensive code is at least in version 1.2 of the device, I had here to test (there is absolutely NO reason why 'RDSK' would appear in an usb hardware device driver).

I gave Elbox the chance to clear things up in public by posting an apology and removing the code. They didn't. Instead, they said that all my "doubts" would be answered in the press statement released yesterday and ignored the consequences that I already had proposed to them.

Well, my "doubts", which actually are facts, that I could see with my own eyes, remain. Any Mediator user can check this by using a memory monitor and searching for the usb.device in memory (after loading up Poseidon) and see, if there's the 'RDSK' ID string within the next 10000 bytes.

As a consequence, I have to warn Mediator users that their machine is in danger, when running the usb.device. In the non-memory protected Amiga environment it might get damaged at any time and then cause the routine that kills the RDB to become active. The next update of Poseidon will refuse to load up the usb.device, if it detects malicious code. This is to protect yourself from damage and myself from being held liable for any loss of data or damage done.

Moreover, I hereby withdraw the permission to include Poseidon in ELBOX's software distributions, until they
a) admit, that the code was in their driver,
b) admit, that they have constantly lied to the users,
d) have placed a public apology for the first time in their life,
c) and have removed any malicious code.

I don't want Poseidon to be included with third party software, that's highly illegal and whose originators don't deserve any trust.

I do understand that people try to protect their work from being hacked. I do this too, but not by risking the data of legal users and I cannot tolerate this offensive behaviour any longer (I admit, I'm again rather upset and therefore this statement is not as objective as it could have been).

The Spider users out there are adviced to confront Elbox with the demands mentioned above, so to allow Poseidon again accept the usb.device driver.

I hope that you believe the facts and my worries and understand the steps taken.

Best regards

Chris Hodges

Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 101 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 14-Nov-2002 22:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Olivier):
> I wonder whether the next thread will be on blaming MackeCD authors?
> There is a code in MackeCD, which destroys CD disks when non-original keys are
> used. If MackeCD authors can do such things against piracy, why not Elbox?
No, no even MakeCD authors can do such things, no one can do such things.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 102 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 14-Nov-2002 22:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Olivier):
[wipes spittle off CRT]
How the hell do you pronounce MackeCD?
If MackeCD did this surreptitiously it's Elboxware. Although screwing up 25¢ CDs is hardly as bad...
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 103 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 14-Nov-2002 22:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Olivier):
I would not say such things about MakeCD in public. The last one who did was
sued by Angela.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 104 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 14-Nov-2002 22:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Grimmtooth):
WinRAR 3 unpacks LHA archives perfectly, complete with long names. There's also command line LHA for NT that does long names (although I can't remember where I got it).
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 105 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 14-Nov-2002 22:21 GMT
btw. when previously saying with makecd everything is a known issue, I didn't mean there would be cd spoiling code in it as alledged in the post i was replying to. I have never heard of such in makecd and have never had any problems whatsoever with it. I mean't that the author has done very good job with documentations and everything, with detailed examples so that even a rookie will be able to get the hang of it.
Ebox hardly brought any documentation about their little rdb code ;)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 106 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Benjamin Vernoux on 14-Nov-2002 22:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Anonymous):
For the OpenPCI SDK (included source, docs, tools, openpci.library and OpenPciInfo for 68k and PPC MOS etc...)it's free and doesn't need any NDA, you just need to ask me it by Email for the moment later all will be public, with real motivation in doing driver and i will send you all.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 107 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 14-Nov-2002 22:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Olivier):
Olivier, when will you stop advocating Elbox?
You were on their side at the Elbox:
vs FM
vs P96
vs W3D
now... vs EVERYONE...
What you said is utterly stupid. MakeCD destroys an empty CDR that costs less
than a Euro most of the time, not you entire Hard Disk Rigit Disk Block.
You can lose data needed for your job there! What would you say to the boss?
Sorry, Elbox are w*****s and deleted my data!?
Are you out of your mind?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 108 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Nov-2002 23:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Olivier):
i dont see a problem if a prog corrupt is OWN datas when it detect it
is pirated. burning corrupted data or delete fake keys is moraly ok
because it dont affect the rest of the system or other tools.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 109 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb on 14-Nov-2002 23:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Benjamin Vernoux):
Someone can explain why releasing the OpenPCI library for Mediator would be illegal (or why the openpci author would be sued)?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 110 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 14-Nov-2002 23:10 GMT
Does MakeCD contain code engineered specifically for the purpose of
destroying your CD? Or is it rather the case, that if you try to hack
it, there are mechanisms that stop the program from working
completely, which can lead to an incorrectly burned (=destroyed) CD?
I've no idea. Maybe someone could investigate. But one thing is sure:
MakeCD is a CD burning program, and something I'd expect to modify any
CD that I tell it to modify. If I messed around with MakeCD, I
wouldn't be TOO surprised if this caused damaged CD's when burning.
Anyway, I think it would be wrong if there was code in MakeCD that
purposely destroyed a CD, but as the code only would have to disable
some of the normal functions of the program to reach that end (which I
think is quite ok!) that line is rather thin in this case.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 111 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 14-Nov-2002 23:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Crumb):
> Someone can explain why releasing the OpenPCI library for Mediator would be
> illegal (or why the openpci author would be sued)?
It's not illegal, infact... a case like that wouldn't even get to court.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 112 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by q on 14-Nov-2002 23:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Benjamin Vernoux):
Is there anyway how non-programmer like me could support OpenPCI and it's development? What is the current status of this project? Is there any plans for OpenPCI in AOS4.0?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 113 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 14-Nov-2002 23:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> MakeCD destroys an empty CDR that costs less than a Euro most of the time, not you entire Hard Disk Rigit Disk Block.
And what if you burn new session on the CD which contains very important data?
The Elbox driver for Spider does not destroy ANYTHING even if you steal it and try if it works with other usb card. It will only display text that it does not support this card. Only when you HACK the driver you can have damages.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 114 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 14-Nov-2002 23:43 GMT
These Amiga apologists will be the death of me...
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 115 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Lizard on 14-Nov-2002 23:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Rat):
It also can happen when memory is corrupted.
So I don't want to run that risk, so no elbox hardware/drivers for me.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 116 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by valwit on 14-Nov-2002 23:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Olivier):
makecd doesn't destroy data, it can be still read out, and you have the data still on your hd.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 117 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 15-Nov-2002 00:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Lizard):
>It also can happen when memory is corrupted.
In case of MakeCD I don't know.
In case of usb.device it is impossible. From comment #88:
'I have inspected the whole usb.device code and I must say that elbox security is very good. The suspected procedure cannot be initialized with an accidental code error if the driver is already running. The only way to initialize this suspected procedure is with a DELIBERATE change in the driver code before its start. Of course, any hacker who makes such changes, must also decode the driver and remove safe guards, which do not allow running the driver with a wrong checksum.'
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 118 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Teemu Suikki on 15-Nov-2002 00:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Rat):
As said several times before, usb.device rechecks the checksum every
time the driver goes offline and back online. If memory trash occurs
at any time, you loose your RDB when going online the next
time.
Also, it is possible that the driver data gets corrupted after you
have loaded it, but before the checksum is checked in this RDB code..
Not very big chance, but possible. After all, Amiga has no memory
protection.
Actually, some program might crash so that it jumps to random address;
for example to this RDB trashing code.. it's not safe to have code
like that laying around.
From the legal side this issue leaves no room for discussion. What
Elbox did is illegal in most civilized countries. I'm not sure if that
includes Poland.
--
Teemu
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 119 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2002 01:00 GMT
Well, who still cares about Elbox anyways ? Either go out and buy a Pegasos/MorphOS today or wait another 5-6 months for AmigaONE/AmigaOS and the problem is solved. Adding such protections into code is quite lame and yes I agree with many posters here its _ILLEGAL_ and unmoralic. Didn't companies learned about all that shit from the past ? As long as there are crackers outside as long people getting used to such protections. As harder the protection as more the interestes into beating it up. The luck for many companies nowadays are that many good crackers simply left the Amiga. Well I'm getting OT now but well Elbox can't assume that such bad practices won't come to day sooner or later. Now it happened and they got flamed off (and they deserve so). What caused more dammage at the end ? 10 people using hacked usb.device or pci.device or 1000 people that don't belive or trust the company ? Sad that Elbox decided for the 2nd!
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 120 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2002 01:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Teemu Suikki):
You are wrong. Check code. Driver never recalculates checksum after the first online operation.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 121 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by NeRP on 15-Nov-2002 02:44 GMT
I think the best part about this whole issue is how they are trying to
nail you for MORE MONEY on something they already sold you.
People bought the mediator because it had the most drivers for it, and
it allowed you to buy cheap PCI cards. They've turned around and
pulled an ATEO, the difference is that it ELBOXES your machine if you
try a workaround.
You bought the PCI bus to use cheap hardware. Why the hell should you
keep paying over and over again everytime they want to release a
driver?
Elbox can tongue dart my ass. I'll never buy anything from them now.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 122 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 15-Nov-2002 05:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (strobe):
Strobe i have to agree MonkeyOS got it right with that one.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 123 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 15-Nov-2002 05:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (gz):
Yeah the excuses are lame.
If it was not for the Mediator i would of left, cos i was fed up of just haveing aga.
But that does not mean i forgive Elbox for what they are puting there the drivers.
Im glad that all i have is a voodoo3 in my Med & i will not be buying anymore Elbox products if they have harmful code in them
in the future.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 124 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Grzegorz Juraszek on 15-Nov-2002 06:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Teemu Suikki):
Yes, it is illegal also in Poland. Which means anybody can sue Elbox for that. But I'm sure nobody will. I also could sue them for calling me "Goebbels" in public but I didn't for reasons I mentioned in a post in the first thread of the whole recent mess. Maybe someone would sue them if he lost some valuable data but after it all became public, who would be insane enough to keep valuable data on an Amiga using Elbox drivers? If you stick to Elbox hardware (some of you will, I'm sure if you paid for it), backup your RDB for sure. You don't know when something can happen.
Reading all this I recalled something. Some years ago I had an accident with CED. While doing a normal document save it crashed and my HDD became non-bootable. Probably it was a RDB crash. Anyway, it didn't even come to my mind that CED could contain RDB trashing code. I'm sure it doesn't. But if I knew it would, I'd remove it from my HDD and never use it again, although it's a wonderful piece of software (yes, still is) for me.
You defending people seem to miss one thing - it's not important if they found a thousand hospitals in Africa and feed starving children there. If they break the law, they deserve punishment no matter what their other deeds are. And do not mention other not punished software law violations. Does the fact that millions of murderers escaped punishment justifies murder in general?
And for something completely different. Somebody mentioned that it would be perfect to have Elbox HW and Matay customer care (which flatters me a bit as I was part of that care for some time). Well, dreaming is nice but let's get real. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Elbox destroyed Matay but it had much bad influence on the current dealings of the company. If not for some dirty moves Elbox made and their results, maybe you'd have plenty of Prometheus drivers by now (including the cursed soundcard driver which is still not existant). Maybe you'd even have a new Prometheus board and definitelly everybody could do a DMA upgrade by now. It exists, you know? I got mine for free directly from the card designer. I didn't have a chance to check and use it as I sold my Amiga shortly after but I hope the new owner will use it for good when (if?) drivers become public. The PCI bridge worked flawlessly when I had it. Every email I wrote to the card designer was answered. You could say that's because I was an inside guy but it's not true.
Some people say here that customer service in Elbox is also flawless, that they answer every email. Sorry to disappoint you but it depends. Nobody knows what on but there are people who did not get any answer at all. Some did but with insults included (read your manual, you moron). Here in Poland we joke that they have a black list of people they don't answer or answer rude. If so, I'm definitely on such a list, no doubt. But as I was very curious if "flawless support" is not just a myth, I asked some people with Mediator boards. Answers still differed - some were happy about it, some not at all. Then I did a small test. I asked my friend who'd never owned anything from Elbox to write them and ask about Mediator. They answered promptly. Then we pushed a bit further, adding some tricky questions. What a laugh! The person at the other side of the line did everyting to make us into buying a Mediator and avoiding tricky parts. Even lying (we asked about SB Live! support and we got an aswer - yes, it works, which is not true). But when the questions became too tricky, answering emails stopped. And I know it's not just a single case. Recently I got a forward from my other friend with a message from Elbox. He was insisting on something they owned him as a Mediator user. It ended with "if you don't stop sending us emails, we'll sue you for email abuse". Great, isn't it?
One more thing for your curiosity. I'm not sure if it went public because I don't read ANN all the time due to time shortages. Did you all Mediator users know that the MACH chips in the boards you paid hard money for are recycled? You can easily check that: read their serial numbers and visit AMD website. It takes a bit of searching as they stopped producing them some 5 years ago. You can say that it's not a proof, they could stay in some warehouse until Elbox bought them. Could be but I know somebody who actually spoke to a person from a company that sells (was selling?) recycled MACH chips to Elbox. I cannot prove that as I don't know the name of the company but for me these two facts are enough. Of course there's nothing wrong with using recycled parts (your Amigas are quite old anyway, aren't they?) provided you as a customer know about it. But they sell it for much money as brand new. I'm not sure if it's legal but it's definitely not moral.
Ok, enough. Some of you will flame me anyway. I'm sure these people would forgive Elbox killing their families as long as their Mediators work. I'm sorry for you, you should think twice about your morality and system of values.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 125 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by IndJANa on 15-Nov-2002 07:32 GMT
Hmm, Its not very difficult to confirm the existance of the code is it? No need to evaluate the source. Pop in a spare harddisk, install 3.1, install usb drivers and try to modify the code. Go online with the driver an tjeck if the rdb is corrupt.. Isn´t it that simple or am I missing somthing?
-Indy
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 126 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Teemu Suikki on 15-Nov-2002 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (Anonymous):
If the longword holding the checksum is modified for some reason, RDB
is trashed the next time you go online. Better now?
--
Teemu
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 127 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Troll on 15-Nov-2002 10:01 GMT
This is great, lets do the same for software, atleast killing the hardware of the pirates/swappers/traders will stop the lamest of them.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 128 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 15-Nov-2002 11:33 GMT
Chris,
I think your stand is a good one.
However, as you are currently the hardest hit person (IMHO) by this, along with the damage it IS doing to ELBOX, please consider this.
Firstly, you should contact your lawyer.
2. Place an injunction against Elbox/other suppliers in the UK from selling your product.
3. Place a civil case for damages for a large sum of money.
4. Contact UK based resellers and advise immediate end of sales or further legal action.
5. Contact trading standards and demand protection from them, and advise on sellers of Elbox products in the UK.
Lastly, ALL I have seen here in reality is hot air.
Until consumers take legal action against Elbox, I see no reason for anyone to say anything.
Until I see people who license their products take action, again, I see no problem.
If you are an end user with an Elbox product, I have seen no problem.
Law enforcement agencies would not be able to open the code, as that is in itself a breach of the law.
Anyone opening the code, is themselves open to prosecution for doing so, particularily in the united states.
IF someone's drive RDB was deleted in a proven way, THEY would have to take legal action.
I can't see a single legal case being brought against Elbox, and I see no sign of a civil case being brought either.
So.. that leaves the consumer to decide.
Personally I will not buy an Elbox product. But I was not intending to anyway. The issue is really only for users who would or are considering purchasing from them, or existing end users.
It is up to those people to close elbox down. Its that simple.
AdmV
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 129 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2002 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (MonkeyOS):
MacDonalds sells shit anyway :) Finnish Hesburger's hamburgers taste much better :)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 130 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 15-Nov-2002 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Rat):
And I already told you HOW to trigger it...
Easy... Get online, the driver will be decoded and become resident.
You get offline.
Something accidently touches it.
You get back online... POOF.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 131 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 15-Nov-2002 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Anonymous):
>>MacDonalds sells shit anyway :) Finnish Hesburger's hamburgers taste much better :)
Yeah, but them fsckers at hesburger spoiled carolina after they bought out carrols :( carolina was one of my fave burgers, but now it's just a shadow of what it used to be (less mayonaise, salad, tomato, everything)
I used to eat as hese though, until they raised the prices up to a point i don't wanna sponsor them anymore. These days it's only worth eating there if u got coupons. (to everyone unfamiliar with the subject: no, we're not talking about amigaclub coupons ;)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 132 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 15-Nov-2002 12:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
not even poof... you get nothing, just the power lights on.
<< once lost my rdb because of the bug in pfs2 :( too bad i hadn't made backup of the rdb at that time and the previous backup was too old. I lost all my work which i had been doing up to that time.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 133 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Jaeson Koszarsky on 15-Nov-2002 12:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (FYI):
Is it me or does Elbox's carefully worded response not deny that this code is there? Their statement of rumours reads like a carefully worded defense attorney's argument that leaves me with a lot of doubt. They simply claim that certain events won't trigger the code to behave in a malicious way but don't deny that it is there or that it won't be triggered at all by something not mentioned. Why is the code there?
Does it matter whether Chris got the driver to examine from elbox or elsewhere if that code exists in the drivers and has been verified by others to exist?
If elbox didn't know it was there and maybe it was included by a disgruntled employee for later use then the parent company may not be at fault but they should immediately remove the code, provide a clean updated driver and offer an apology to their customers and potential customers.
If you use their software then I'd recommend backing your drives up & keep copies of your RDBs handy. That's good advice anyway though, with or without potentially destructive code present.
Jaeson K.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 134 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 15-Nov-2002 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Anonymous):
A McDonalds restaurant here in sweden dished their toilet seats together with food trays, knifes, forks and so on. So you may not be so far from the truth about them ;)
Lucky me for never eating at McDonalds :)
/Björn
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 135 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by dirigent on 15-Nov-2002 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (Jaeson Koszarsky):
I see it that way too. To me the statement obviously does not say
"there is no such code", it just says that if you don't try to mess
with their software, such code will not be invoked. Actually, from
what they write, and also what they don't write, it seems quite clear
that if you DO try to mess with their software, such code may or will
be called. Surely people hacking their code are in for a punishment.
I'm not sure if such measures should be considered appropriate, anyway
now that ELBox have been caught, it's probably their job to apologise
and do things differently. Bad luck.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 136 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Maric on 15-Nov-2002 13:23 GMT
Hmm... not a mediator owner myself. Read on vgr.com that somebody tried to check the spider v1.10 driver (released after the discovery og the infamous RDB-whacking code), and found no RDB-wiping code. Can more people confirm this? And check whether or not the driver v1.10 is 'clean' now?
-Paul
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 137 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Grzegorz Juraszek on 15-Nov-2002 13:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (Jaeson Koszarsky):
It's not only you, I noticed the same. They do not deny the existence of the code. They only say that unmodified driver will do nothing which we all already knew. As I commented on amiga.com.pl - the statement was for those simpleminded users who cannot cope with reading between lines. In other words - they insult us again, thinking we'll take the bait. As to malicious and vindictive programmer idea, I wouldn't bet on that. Elbox is smaller than you Westerners probably think. Some people say they have a couple of programmers working for them and I would believe it.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 138 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 15-Nov-2002 13:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Paul Maric):
I believe it says he couldn't find "RDSK", and it also says that he didn't actually verify that the driver decrypted properly, so it doesn't prove or disprove anything.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 139 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 15-Nov-2002 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Peter Gordon):
Oh no, it wasn't that quote that mentioned the decryption, but theres nothing to suggest the person did more than search for "RDSK" in the 1.10 binary, which still proves nothing.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 140 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2002 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Paul Maric):
I wonder what ahat is the stus of voodoo etc drivers ? Has anyone checked those ?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 141 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2002 13:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Paul Maric):
I wonder what is the status of voodoo etc drivers ? Has anyone checked those ?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 142 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 15-Nov-2002 14:17 GMT
The behaviour of the code in the usb (and pci) drivers is illegal in the UK according to the Computer Misuse Act.
And this has been tested in a court - a shareware author had code that would mess up a user's hard drive in some manner if it detected it was unlicenced. An unlicenced user used the software, and his data was lost, and the software author lost the resulting case.
So if anyone in the UK loses any data or has the operation of their hardware altered because of these drivers, then Elbox are legally liable.
And because of this, I would strongly recommend that Elbox remove this code from their drivers.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 143 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 15-Nov-2002 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (Graham):
How do you intend to prove it was down to their driver ?
No government agency can look at the code, at least not without breaking the law. Nor can the end user.
I do not know how you could actually do it, not in a clean way. You'd have real issues proving this, and making it stick.
AdmV
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 144 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2002 14:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (AdmV):
" How do you intend to prove it was down to their driver ?"
By disassembling the code and examining it - which is PERFECTLY legal throughout the entire EU fora start, as well as many other countries worldwide.
"No government agency can look at the code, at least not without breaking the law. Nor can the end user."
Utter rubbish.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 145 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by shocked on 15-Nov-2002 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (AdmV):
no government agency can look at the code??? Are you a moron, of course they can look at the code....
number one, there is nothing wrong with looking at code on your own computer...and two, a government agency can just subpeona the code from Elbox, especially if you live in Poland...international stuff being more difficult.
Oh, yes, I don't live in Poland, but a government that cannot investigate crime, what a novel thought, I like the idea, but it doesn't exist anywhere, not even in poland.
but I will say this....and this also seems universal, you will have to first lose data before you can sue for monetary damages...in other words, you first have to HAVE monetary damages before you can recoup monetary damages...
so get busy triggerring that code...we need someone to actually do it.
I can't...haven't had an amiga for years.
I need someone to go out and buy an AmigaOne G3, decide they'd upgrade to a G4, and sell the G3 second hand, then we will be getting closer to my price range...
I did start to soup up my A1200 a few years ago, bought an 060 at a ridiculous price, and was very badly disappointed that only some operations were sped up, but the thing that bothered me the most, video speed, had hardly changed.
that made me want a graphics card very badly, and the only realistic option at the time was ATEObus, maybe ZII interface board, with a Picasso II or something, but anyway, both of these options were expensive and really weren't especially fast.
I bought a way, very very old PowerMac 6100 secondhand, and it FLOORED me, it was so fast compared to my miggy....it didn't even have PCI, it was a nubus machine with a hpf graphics card, but it just blew me away....web surfing was amazingly fun and it had some heavy hitting graphics software of its own.
hard to believe the 6100, which is still faster than any amiga, is so slow nowadays I would die if I had to use it again......
ahh well, life goes on...
ramble ramble ramble
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 146 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2002 15:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (shocked):
>I bought a way, very very old PowerMac 6100 secondhand, and it FLOORED me
Wow, amazing you came to this conclusion. A1200s are a toy you know? They were not made with expansion in mind, only games. Serious Amigas like the A3000 with 060 and gfx card kills a 6100 and later boxes so bad, it's scary.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 147 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 15-Nov-2002 15:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (Anonymous):
No, you misunderstand me.
How do you intend to prove that the driver *at a specific* point in time crashed your machine/and / or deleted your data ?
Given the amiga OS and the way it operates, its something hard to prove.
I am not discussing the copyright further, its a minefield and quite irrelevant.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 148 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Benjamin Vernoux on 15-Nov-2002 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (q):
The OpenPCI Project will be soon public maybe in 1 or 2 month when the full Pegasos and Prometheus support will be finished and my driver will be finished too (Terratech 512i (FM801 chipset), SB128 (es1371 chipset), RTL8139b/c/d 10/100MB card, RTL8029 10MB) and USB OHCI support.
OS4 will be not supported.
Supported PCI hardware are :
Prometheus V2 status : finished (need test and bug fix)
GrexA1200/A4000 status : finished (need test)
Amithlon (AGP+PCI support) status : finished
Pegasos (AGP+PCI support) status : will be finished soon
maybe AROS too status : not started
Mediator will be NEVER supported :
I doesn't want to support any hardware who come from Elbox, because i hate their politic, all rumours who say OpenPCI for Mediator is illegal are wrong because OpenPCI is transparent layer and nothing is related to any hardware specification.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 149 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 15-Nov-2002 17:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Benjamin Vernoux):
>Prometheus V2 status : finished (need test and bug fix)
Really?!? How did you accomplish this with no busmatering? Do you have the fix? This would be very big news if you do IMO.
If the fix was available(firmware update) for Prometheus, and more drivers available, i would buy another prometheus in a heartbeat.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 150 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Nov-2002 18:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Johan Rönnblom):
There is a code to destroy CD when using bad keycode (pirated code).
It's true.
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