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[News] Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for PoseidonANN.lu
Posted on 14-Nov-2002 14:43 GMT by Chris Hodges159 comments
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Poseidon will refuse to load the usb.device with the next update. I could verify that the offensive RDB-killer code is inside the driver version (1.2) I had here. Permission to distribute Poseidon with their software has been withdrawn. Dear Poseidon Users,

in the last few days, there were rumours posted to ann.lu, claiming that the usb.device, that is provided by Elbox Computer Inc. for the Spider USB PCI card would contain malicious code. This code was posted disassembled on various websites. This source code, if assemblied into an executable, would indeed have the ability to kill the RDB (if it was found in block 0). Code destroying data on purpose like this is illegal in most countries (including Germany) and moreover, is one of the ethically worst things I've ever seen.

As the source of this security warning was an anonymous poster and therefore was not reliable, I wanted to check for myself. So I loaded the usb.device (some friendly Mediator user sent me, as Elbox never offered me a SpiderCD to check the contents of the CD), let it decrypt itself and just searched for the 'RDSK' string in the driver (as seen on the disassembled source code on the websites). No disassembly was used. The string was found. I could therefore verify that the offensive code is at least in version 1.2 of the device, I had here to test (there is absolutely NO reason why 'RDSK' would appear in an usb hardware device driver).

I gave Elbox the chance to clear things up in public by posting an apology and removing the code. They didn't. Instead, they said that all my "doubts" would be answered in the press statement released yesterday and ignored the consequences that I already had proposed to them.

Well, my "doubts", which actually are facts, that I could see with my own eyes, remain. Any Mediator user can check this by using a memory monitor and searching for the usb.device in memory (after loading up Poseidon) and see, if there's the 'RDSK' ID string within the next 10000 bytes.

As a consequence, I have to warn Mediator users that their machine is in danger, when running the usb.device. In the non-memory protected Amiga environment it might get damaged at any time and then cause the routine that kills the RDB to become active. The next update of Poseidon will refuse to load up the usb.device, if it detects malicious code. This is to protect yourself from damage and myself from being held liable for any loss of data or damage done.

Moreover, I hereby withdraw the permission to include Poseidon in ELBOX's software distributions, until they
a) admit, that the code was in their driver,
b) admit, that they have constantly lied to the users,
d) have placed a public apology for the first time in their life,
c) and have removed any malicious code.

I don't want Poseidon to be included with third party software, that's highly illegal and whose originators don't deserve any trust.

I do understand that people try to protect their work from being hacked. I do this too, but not by risking the data of legal users and I cannot tolerate this offensive behaviour any longer (I admit, I'm again rather upset and therefore this statement is not as objective as it could have been).

The Spider users out there are adviced to confront Elbox with the demands mentioned above, so to allow Poseidon again accept the usb.device driver.

I hope that you believe the facts and my worries and understand the steps taken.

Best regards

Chris Hodges

Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 51 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Mikael Burman on 14-Nov-2002 18:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Trizt):
Lets be real here... since when did this RDB thingy exist in the pci.library? From
the very beginning!? If so, how many Mediator users have had their RDB thrashed?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 52 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Mikael Burman on 14-Nov-2002 18:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Trizt):
Lets be real here... since when did this RDB thingy exist in the pci.library? From
the very beginning!? If so, how many Mediator users have had their RDB thrashed?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 53 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Mikael Burman on 14-Nov-2002 18:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Mikael Burman):
Hehe... sorry about that double posting. Must be the RDB thrashing code in my pci.library.. ;)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 54 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 14-Nov-2002 18:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Mikael Burman):
Who knows? If a user had their RDB trashed, how would they have associated it with the elbox software on their system? They just wouldn't have known!
The fact is that even if it is really unlikely to ever be executed on a legitimate users system, the inclusion of the code is irresponsible, illegal, stupid and just plain WRONG!
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 55 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Mikael Burman on 14-Nov-2002 19:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Peter Gordon):
Well, I´m not sure about all this yet... I have a feeling that Elbox will solve
this matter, one way or another.. as long there is doubt there is hope... :)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 56 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 14-Nov-2002 19:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Mikael Burman):
What doubt? I just had in a window on my workbench Barfly Debugger showing me the RDB trashing code within the pci.library in the RAM of my A4000. I've seen it with my own eyes, and I am NOT happy.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 57 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by MonkeyOS on 14-Nov-2002 19:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Mikael Burman):
What just let Elbox remove this crap and add it with some other crap? Lynch 'em baby! Cyber lynch the slim balls!!
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 58 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 14-Nov-2002 19:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Peter Gordon):
So if identical code is inside pci.library and nobody was harmed in the last few years it proves that what Elbox is writing is true. None external buggy program may make their driver cause harm to the disk.
If I were to worry about a code in my computer, which is writing something in RDB, I could not use Amiga at all. The disk formatting code is all the time in AmigaOS, right?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 59 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Andrew Deacon on 14-Nov-2002 19:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Olivier):
Has anyone tested a recent version of the usb.device?
If I remember correctly my spider (bought on release) came with version 1.6.
1.2 must have been pre-release?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 60 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 14-Nov-2002 19:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Rat):
Formatting a partition doesn't frell up the RDB...
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 61 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 14-Nov-2002 19:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Rat):
Thats not the point! It is unlikely but not impossible that the code could be executed on a legitimate users system.
You could use your Amiga every day for 100 years and get away with it, but do you really trust a company that puts that sort of code into their drivers?
What if when updating a driver, the programmer accidentally breaks the checking code? The fact is, its devious, underhand, unprofessional, irresponsible and illegal to put that sort of code in software and release it.
I've decided not to upgrade this Amiga with any more elbox hardware, once the AmigaONE with OS4 is out, i'll spend my money on that instead.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 62 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Nov-2002 19:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Rat):
>If I were to worry about a code in my computer, which is writing something in >RDB, I could not use Amiga at all. The disk formatting code is all the time in >AmigaOS, right?
With the simple difference that no device/library calls the OS disk formatting code when its not intended to do so or based on some longword that should be 0
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 63 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 14-Nov-2002 19:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (MonkeyOS):
At this point, the only good thing to do for them is
to release sources of their devices.
I'd like to remember that software containing functions
that can kill RDB (and not due to a bug) can NOT be distributed
and/or sold in almost any EU country.
So now there are only two choices: 1) remove the code (and
prove it, eg. by releasing sources) or 2) stop selling
products in EU countries.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 64 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by smp266 on 14-Nov-2002 19:23 GMT
I passed on the mediator because my A1200 was starting to suffer keyboard trouble... A piece of solder got caught under the keyboard chip.
The mediator was a badly needed upgrade at the time, and Elbox should have won plenty of loyalty. There really was no need to use dirty tricks.
They look pretty low in integrity now and Mediator doesn't seem to have done everything everyone had hoped it would.
They had better pick up their reputation quickly if they want people to continue to buy their products. (That's my 2cents)
Good luck to current Mediator users and let us hope that next year will be a return to good times for Amiga.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 65 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Targhan on 14-Nov-2002 19:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Mikael Burman):
Irregardless of the cause, I think this situation just re-affirms the need for users to back up their RDB.
Whether true or not, whether Elbox is bad or good, whether Chris is correct, the bottom line is that users need to back up their RDB and have an alternate booting method (floppy/CD).
RDBSalve and ReadRDB come to mind...
Anyway, I sincerely hope that this mess gets straightened out. I have a Mediator, and it's good hardware. It's ran since the beginning worry-free. I really just don't know what to make of this situation... :-(
Finally, everyone should now have a backup of their RDB, right?
Regards,
Targhan
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 66 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by MonkeyOS on 14-Nov-2002 19:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Rat):
Lets say you love McDonalds Mcnuggets. You eat them every day and become a fat pig. Then you find out it's not really chicken at all, it's made of ground up lamma testicles. You also find out the milkshakes is really elephant semen.
Let me guess, you would still eat at McDonalds right?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 67 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Hutchinson on 14-Nov-2002 19:32 GMT
Having just ordered a Spider USB I don't know what to think now, should I cancel?
I for one feel the Mediator is the best peiece of Amiga hardware for a hell of a long time, maybe since the A1000 :) Having had a Mediator for about 18 months now I have found Elbox's customer support to be the best going, they always respond to emails promptly, they even fixed the pci.library for me so the Mediator worked with my odd ball Apollo 060LC 75MHz! Elbox's solution has saved me £££s on expensive zorro cards and dodgy clock port add ons and let me do a lot more with my Amiga as a result.
I find these rumours hard to believe, but am concerned all the same, especially if Chris Hodges pulls Posedian out from use with Spider, will the Spider be worth owning?
Has any, non-hacking, ligitimate user of Spider lost an RDB and their data?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 68 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 14-Nov-2002 19:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Daniel Hutchinson):
The code is not likely to be executed in a legitimate users system. You have more chance of winning the lottery than losing your RDB on a legitimate system, but have it backed up just in case.
If I were you, i'd base your decision on whether to buy any more of elboxes (admittedly excellent) hardware on ethics rather than data-loss concerns. Personally, I believe Elbox were wrong and irresponsible to include this code, and I will not buy any more elbox products because I just don't trust them any more.
However, their hardware IS top notch, their customer support IS excellent, and they have pretty much sustained the Amiga through very hard times. There was JUST no need for them to shoot themselves in the foot like this!
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 69 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Andrew Deacon on 14-Nov-2002 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Daniel Hutchinson):
Hi,
From a usage point of view the Spider is definitely worth using.
My Epson Photo 870 and Lacie Hexdrive both work great with it, though I had
to wait some time for Elbox to iron out bugs in the usb.device.
I've got mixed feelings about Chris Hodges action since I understand his
position but at the same time i've paid both Elbox and himself for a working
product.
I would like to see if this code is also in the latest usb.device since
the version 1.2 tested is very old.
I very much doubt Elbox will make an apology but as long as they modify the
code Poseidon updates will still work, even if they aren't distributed by
Elbox.
Andy
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 70 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 14-Nov-2002 20:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Rat):
You could try using a monitor and taking a look for yourself. Or are you too lame?
The truth shall set you free. :)
coldfire
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 71 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 14-Nov-2002 20:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (MonkeyOS):
@MonkeyOS
Finally, somebody comes up with an analogy which creates the same nauseating feeling of Elbox customers.
Your post made my day, and unmade my lunch...
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 72 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 14-Nov-2002 20:21 GMT
man not a wonder ppl leave the amiga community! It's not probably as much even because of crooked companies that do business with amiga 'products' but more because of the people LEFT in the community! I mean how fucking sheep can some people get?!?!?
Elbox has at last been proved to have done immoral actions against ALL consumers who buy their products and use the driver software. Yet I see people going on about making excuses for them and saying it's ok because elbox is an amiga company! What the hell is wrong with you? If I come over and fucking kick your amiga to pieces, then take your money, would you guys still thank me? I bet not, but wait! What if I was an elbox or amiga inc. employee? Then I'm sure you would happily invite me to do something crooked as long as I would do it in the 'SPIRIT OF AMIGA'
Seeing comments like "im sure elbox have thought of everyone's benefit when doing so out of their goodwill" etc. apologist "keep the momentum going" kinda attitude just makes me wanna rip my clothes off and run naked to the outside world and never look back at amiga 'community' again.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 73 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by thank you, eyetech on 14-Nov-2002 20:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Incred):
"If cheap pc clone pci cards could be hacked for use with the mediator pci busboard then my investment in spider pci would be ruined,"
LOL! Good one, Incred! :-D
Kinda reminds me of those "it'sgoodtoonlybeallowedtouseamigainclicencedhardware" apologists/masochists. I bet those would only be happy if the gfx drivers in OS4 made the monitor explode in the user's face if it detected "unlicensed" hw. "Ooooh, I'm disfigured for life, but it's for my own good! Thank you AMIIIIIGA!!!"
:-)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 74 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 14-Nov-2002 20:27 GMT
What elbox, dce and every motherf#*ker company that pees customers in the eye or commit actions that are illegal in the amiga market need serious asskicking and not encouragement coming from the people they have just exploited!
There! whew! nuff said. Finally got it out of my system...
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 75 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 14-Nov-2002 20:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (thank you, eyetech):
AMEN to that brother :)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 76 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Troels E on 14-Nov-2002 20:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (gz):
im sure elbox have thought of everyone's benefit when doing so out of their goodwill..
im sure elbox have thought of everyone's benefit when doing so out of their goodwill.
KEEP THE MOMENTUM GOING !!!
Now RUN! ;-)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 77 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 14-Nov-2002 20:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (gz):
"Seeing comments like "im sure elbox have thought of everyone's benefit when doing so out of their goodwill" etc. apologist "keep the momentum going" kinda attitude just makes me wanna rip my clothes off and run naked to the outside world and never look back at amiga 'community' again."
Please, i beg of you, don't do that! ;)
Amon_Re
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 78 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 14-Nov-2002 20:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (thank you, eyetech):
I do prefer Amiga's licence over RDB eating code tho :)
Amon_Re
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 79 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Sjoerd on 14-Nov-2002 20:53 GMT
@41
(this one led me to believe that the SharkPPC is the MAI Microserver S,
the same card DCE wanted to use,<snip>).
This card is not from DCE but from bPlan, took self a interview at DCE.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 80 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 14-Nov-2002 20:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Amon_Re):
>>Please, i beg of you, don't do that! ;)
That would please you now would'nt it? Too bad i don't have any legs to run with and im therefore forced to sit here infront of my monitor all days/nights typing political biggot propaganda to ann forums ;)
but seriosuly, letting companies excersize illegal or bad policy is definately NOT going to make the amiga have a better chance to stabilize it's market. The more crap we get, the more ppl will leave. It's as simple as that.
If we as customers will not support products that are originated from such conditions, will eventually over time drive out crooked companies out of the market or then simply force them to change their policies a bit. Thus creating a more healthier and more productive market for amiga, and THEN we may finally start dreaming about a future for amiga as a platform.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 81 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 14-Nov-2002 21:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Peter Gordon):
> What doubt? I just had in a window on my workbench Barfly Debugger showing me
> the RDB trashing code within the pci.library in the RAM of my A4000. I've seen
> it with my own eyes, and I am NOT happy.
Naaa... how can we believe you? You're writing in a forum, whatever you write is not trustworthy, didn't you know? :P
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 82 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 14-Nov-2002 21:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (gz):
I fully agree with you on that one, practices like these are imoral
Amon_Re
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 83 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 14-Nov-2002 21:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (gz):
@gz
The Amiga apologists get to me too.
I mean look at the comments after that Bill McEwen abomination of an interview. How could anybody swallow that tissue of lies, nonsequitur/dodges, and plain dumb comments?
These people would roast weenies on a stick while Nero fiddled. Way to go Nero! You DA MAN!
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 84 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 14-Nov-2002 21:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Fabio Alemagna):
Good point, but what more can I do than tell you what I saw? its up to you to believe what you will, but 3 independant sources all claim the code is there. I know for a fact it is. If you lack the technical knowledge to find out yourself, get someone you trust and who does to investigate for you.
I *REALLY* did NOT want it to be true. I think the Mediator hardware is superb, I think Elboxes customer support is FANTASTIC, I am really, really disappointed that they have acted so badly, when their products are good enough to sell themselves without the need to do anything devious or illegal.
I honestly don't know what Elbox could possibly do to redeem themselves...
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 85 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 14-Nov-2002 21:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Grimmtooth):
Only the source is online:)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 86 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Axelsson on 14-Nov-2002 21:27 GMT
I have a mediator, but no USB card. I decided to investigate the claims that
even pci.library has this malicious code in it. This is my attempt at an unibiased investigation of the claims (I have nothing against Elbox, and I would actually wish the accusations to be false)
My results:
pci.library 5.1 doesn't have it. This is the version I'm currently using and will keep using until Elbox clears this up. (It might have some other protection in it, but it will at least not trash your RDB)
pci.library 5.6 has the code Qwe found in usb.device (or something _very_ similiar), which really looks like it will write to the RDB
pci.library 3.2 couldn't be decrypted with Qwe's elboxdecrypt software. It doesn't seem to be encrypted, and has no malcode in it if that is the case.
This was investigated using the decrypting software supplied by Qwe and then decompiling the decrypted software using ira and by reading through it with a binary editor.
The decryption software was compiled from source after a detailed study of its inner workings. To the best of my knowledge there is no code in the decryption software that modifies the library other than decrypting it. The source is cleanly written and easily verified (for a C programmer).
I consider myself to be an expert on C, but I realise that my assembler skills are not good enough to fully understand the output from the disassembler. The code does however correspond to the one published and annotated by Qwe, and it is clearly writing directly to the device - something pci.library _never_ should need to do.
I've also not confirmed what triggers the malicious code, but for me it is enough that it is there.
I understand that most of you people don't know me and might wonder why you should trust my word on this. I don't post anonymously. From my email address you can se that I'm a staff member of the CS department of Umeå University, where I'm also a final-year MSc&E student. This can be all be easily confirmed. This doesn't prevent me from lying if I wanted to, but at least it should give you some kind of hint that I know what I'm talking about.
Have a nice day =)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 87 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 14-Nov-2002 21:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Peter Gordon):
> Good point, but what more can I do than tell you what I saw?
Hey, dude, I was joking, I do believe you, I never thought it was an hoax in the first place... I was _sure_ it's true.
I was just making fun of someone else... namely samface :)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 88 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Nov-2002 21:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Peter Gordon):
> It is unlikely but not impossible that the code could be executed on a legitimate users system.
Peter if you are not a hacker, you should not worry :-)
I have inspected the whole usb.device code and I must say that elbox security is very good. The suspected procedure cannot be initialized with an accidental code error if the driver is already running. The only way to initialize this suspected procedure is with a DELIBERATE change in the driver code before its start. Of course, any hacker who makes such changes, must also decode the driver and remove safe guards, which do not allow running the driver with a wrong checksum.
But is such a driver modified by a hacker still code from Elbox?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 89 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 14-Nov-2002 21:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Sjoerd):
It wouldn't be released under the bPlan name afaik.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 90 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Grimmtooth on 14-Nov-2002 21:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 ([JC]):
>> So we have this decrypter at http://isuq.selfhost.com/ .... problem
>> is that I am working from a PC (LAME!!!) and I don't think I can
>> unpack the code
> I'll ignore the obvious troll.
::chuckle:: Are you aware of my handle's origin?
At any rate:
> It won't work on anything but an Amiga because ...
I know that. Problem is on my peecee I can't unpack the source code LHA archive and I would like to review the code. That's all. I have my doubts about the util until I can see it. There's altogher too much unreviewed info flying around at the moment. I suspect that the decrypter is exactly what it claims to be, but I want to KNOW.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 91 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 14-Nov-2002 21:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Anonymous):
I'm not a hacker. I am a legitimate Mediator user, and I have no interest in hacking, nor a desire to hack, elboxes drivers.
I don't have a USB card, and I haven't completely disassembled or decrypted the pci.library, just investigated for its presence in the loaded library.
I appreciate that it is incredibly unlikely that this code could be run on a legitimate user system, however, I do not feel very trusting of a company that would put this code in their software. For starters, you cannot ever 100% guarrantee against human error, and it is possible that someone could make a mistake when updating an elbox driver and make the code more likely to be executed.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 92 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 14-Nov-2002 21:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Anonymous):
No, there is a way to trigger it...
You get online and then offline, the driver is closed but STILL resident.
Then you change any part of it. Next time it is opened it will be triggered
under normal circumstances.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 93 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 14-Nov-2002 21:49 GMT
Can anybody think of a company who has done anything similar to this? If not allow me to coin the terms:
Elboxware: Software designed to surreptitiously harm your computer system when a EULA isn't followed.
Elboxing: The act of surreptitiously harming your computer system to enforce a EULA
Elboxed: A machine or person who has been surreptitiously harmed.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 94 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 14-Nov-2002 21:53 GMT
Example: After booting Mac OS in MOL on my Pegasos, Steve Jobs crashed through my bedroom window and Elboxed my computer with his .45 magnum.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 95 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 14-Nov-2002 21:55 GMT
Oops, that wasn't surreptitious...
Damn, making up an example of this is hard!
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 96 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 14-Nov-2002 21:55 GMT
many people making excuses for elbox seem to be missing the point of the roar their actions have caused. It's not a question of how good their hardware is (because it's ecellent.) It's not a question of how good their service has been (because that's been good too.) And it's not about wheter it's possible or not that someone could be unfortunate enough to have the rdb writing code accidentally to thrash the block on someones hd, or even because of trying to hack it.
It's about the simple fact that it's THERE nonetheless and it's immoral, illegal and not necessary. To make protections for your software you could use other ways than that. It's about deliberately hiding a very nasty code to your software which you know is WRONG and then selling it to unsuspecting people who might be in danger of loosing even pricelessly valuable data or material from their hd because of it.
It's also about blaming and threatening innocent people like mr.kemp with legal procecution when knowing they have themselves violated the law of eu. It's about JUSTICE and about tolerance. Do we tolerate this? or do we make it clear that elbox needs to make an apology and change the code with proof that it no longer contains dangerous code.
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 97 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 14-Nov-2002 21:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (strobe):
LOL good one =)
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 98 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by Olivier on 14-Nov-2002 22:00 GMT
I wonder whether the next thread will be on blaming MackeCD authors?
There is a code in MackeCD, which destroys CD disks when non-original keys are used.
If MackeCD authors can do such things against piracy, why not Elbox?
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 99 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 14-Nov-2002 22:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Olivier):
im sorry, i don't usually let myself get wound up to the point of starting to insult people, but your persistance in having to make excuses for a clearly immoral act is getting too much for me to be able to behave properly.
If you don't see the difference between makecd and with what elbox has done, you got to be a relative of mariuz wlaziousack or whatever the name of the elbox pr person is. Makecd can only spoil the empty cd your trying to burn. You DON'T loose data from your hd, thus it's not making irreparable damage to your data. Also it's a known issue with makecd. With elbox it wasn't known but deliberately hidden and then even tried to be denied and blamed over others as "hackers" and accompanied with legal threats.
See any difference there? No? I thought so... :(
Offensive Elbox driver and consequences for Poseidon : Comment 100 of 159ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 14-Nov-2002 22:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Olivier):
[wipes spittle off CRT]
How the hell do you pronounce MackeCD?
If MackeCD did this serrupticiously
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