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[News] The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed..ANN.lu
Posted on 15-Nov-2002 21:36 GMT by redrumloa (Edited on 2002-11-16 07:21:47 GMT by Christian Kemp)59 comments
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Think back to the 90's. What do you remember? Nirvana, gangster rap, Vanilla Ice and... Amiga Web Directory. Wow, that sure brings you back right? But what does AWD have to do with Amiga.org's outage? Read on
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 1 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Scott Pistorino on 15-Nov-2002 20:54 GMT
Let me be the first to chime in and say... Unbelievable!
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 2 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 15-Nov-2002 21:06 GMT
Kevin Hisel you are a fucking looser.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 3 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Szutoman on 15-Nov-2002 21:11 GMT
I thought if people would like to cantact Mr. Hisel, please go to his home page and send him a leter.
http://www.prairienet.org/~khisel/
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 4 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 15-Nov-2002 21:32 GMT
Signs of self destruction continue on in the so called amiga community.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 5 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Silvanus on 15-Nov-2002 22:18 GMT
When to his site and looked at his picture. What a DORK!
Thanks for NOT helping the Amiga!
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 6 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Ian on 15-Nov-2002 23:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (3seas):
I totally agree, all that seems to happen these days in the Amiga Community is back stabbing and slagging off.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 7 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 15-Nov-2002 23:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (3seas):
Don't worry. We're not all like that....it's just a few morans. Unfortunately they are in every walk of life. But then I get the impression that you love to see this sort of thing going on. Peace and happiness is just to idealic for some.
>Signs of self destruction continue on in the so called amiga community.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 8 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Kevin Hisel on 16-Nov-2002 03:56 GMT
I tried to post this comment to Amiga.org but it was deleted in about an hour. Apparently Wayne wants his users to listen to only his side of the story. If he had only taken my pictures off his site when I asked, there would have been no problems.
--
Wayne and all,
Please allow me to tell the other side of the story.
Back in 1997, I posted a series of pictures from the 1997 Gateway Show on the CUCUG site clearly marked as copyrighted materials. Someone recently posted my pictures on Amiga.org. I'm guessing Wayne, et al, did not even know where they came from or the fact that they were copyrighted.
I sent three e-mails using forms on the site and directly to Wayne asking that the pics be removed. I received no response but read in the forums that Wayne had indeed received my e-mails. Still no response. Wayne now claims that he did respond, but I never received a response.
I waited a couple of weeks to give Wayne a chance to remove the pics and then finally wrote to Communitech who is the ISP providing access to Amiga.org. I asked that they remove my files from their server. I did not ask that they take Amiga.org down--that would be silly.
Clearly Communitech over reacted. I am pleased to see that my files have been removed but it was crazy to take the whole site down. Amiga enthusiasts rely on Amiga.org and I regret that service was interrupted--that was not my intention.
I can understand why Wayne is angry and why he has resorted to name-calling. I'd be mad, too, if my ISP took my site down for three days. He's just reacting.
Thanks to all who took the time to read my response.
-Kevin Hisel
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 9 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Nov-2002 04:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Kevin Hisel):
What proof of copyright do you have to offer?
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 10 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Kevin Hisel on 16-Nov-2002 04:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
The materials originally appeared on the CUCUG web site on March 16, 1997.
http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1997/gateway97/index.html
At the bottom of the page: "Copyright, 1997, CUCUG - No Reposting. All photography Copyright, 1997 Kevin Hisel"
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 11 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 16-Nov-2002 04:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Kevin Hisel):
How nice of you to share that AFTER the fact.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 12 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 16-Nov-2002 05:11 GMT
Comment given on relative thread on moobunny.
If this babeling against Kevin is not a sure sign of hypocracy..... then what's all the IP bitch slapping Amiga has been up to since it's conception?
Oh wait, MS says double standards are OK.... What the fu& was I thinking..... MS. Amiga....
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 13 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 16-Nov-2002 05:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (3seas):
What's your paypal account Timmy? I'd like to send you $0.10 so you can buy a clue.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 14 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Nov-2002 07:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Kevin Hisel):
"Copyright, 1997, CUCUG - No Reposting. All photography Copyright, 1997 Kevin Hisel"
Okay, then why did you use the name of CUCUG* in reporting this copyright violation the AO's ISP and not your own name?
I looked at your pictures. Did you get releases from all those people?
You might want to think about watermarking your photos.
*This according to Wayne
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 15 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 16-Nov-2002 09:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Kevin Hisel):
@ Amiga.org team
Personally I believe it wasn't a good idea to delete Kevin's side of the story. If he was being offensive (as Wayne did...) or something similar I could have imagined it, but his posting seems perfectly reasonable and well worded to me. Why delete this whole thread?
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 16 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Man on the moon on 16-Nov-2002 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Mike Bouma):
The reason's clear: Wayne Cunt is a fscking nazi-cunt0r himself... he feels free to throw shite on every one around who doesn't like his thinkings and who has not his same point of view... Wayne, please do us a favour: just keep both your amiga.org and your mouth shut up
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 17 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 16-Nov-2002 10:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Mike Bouma):
Mike Bouma typed:
> Personally I believe it wasn't a good idea to delete Kevin's side
> of the story. If he was being offensive (as Wayne did...) or
> something similar I could have imagined it, but his posting seems
> perfectly reasonable and well worded to me. Why delete this whole
> thread?
I agree with this and it seems to me that if I have a website and
someone writes me "hey those pictures actually belong to me so please
take them down" and the claim seems factual then I can come up with a
better response than "show me your official copyright information and
maybe I will."
It sounds to me like the amiga.org maintainer got burned by his ISP
because of his own confrontational attitude. I don't think making
this CUCUG guy the villain of the month is called for.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 18 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 16-Nov-2002 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Daniel Miller):
> It sounds to me like the amiga.org maintainer got burned by his ISP
> because of his own confrontational attitude. I don't think making
> this CUCUG guy the villain of the month is called for.
Well, Mr Hisel (the CUCUG guy) has been confrontational himself, repeatedly threatening anyone who included the words "Amiga", "Web" and "Directory" on their site with legal action for infringing his trademark, not to mention copyrighting pictures of people and companies without their permission.
The AWD and CUCUG abandoned the Amiga community years ago. They left of their own choice citing that there was no longer any point in supporting the platform. Quite frankly they, including Mr Hisel, can stay gone. They are not needed and have nothing to contribute. It might be understandable if Mr Hisel and his associates would provide proof of their trademark and copyright claims, but they repeatedly refuse to do so. The AWD was a crucial resource to the Amiga community in its time, and Mr Hisel decided to kill it off. It now seems that he has since been seeking to prevent anyone else from providing a similar service unless they pay him for the priviledge. This isn't about confrontation, it's about greed. Sheer unadulterated greed.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 19 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 16-Nov-2002 12:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Kevin Hisel):
What difference does it make, really? Are you just mad he didn't ask you permission to use these? It's not like cucug is in competition with amiga.org or anything, don't sweat the small stuff man, no harm done, well until you got amiga.org shutdown that is.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 20 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 16-Nov-2002 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Man on the moon):
@Man on the Moon
>The reason's clear: Wayne Cunt is a fscking nazi-cunt0r himself... he feels
>free to throw shite on every one around who doesn't like his thinkings and who
>has not his same point of view...
Blatant trolling, but I'll bite. Wayne does NOT throw crap on someone simply because of thir POV. As a matter of fact my POV on computer related issues are almost dead opposite of Wayne's, yet obviously Wayne and I get along pretty well.
The simple fact is KH has a history of bullying Amiga related websites claiming copyright on some pretty ridiculous things, yet when asked to prove copyright he refuses to provide it.
It would be the same as if I emailed CK claiming copyright on the name ANN and asked him to change it, and when CK asked me to prove it I did not and just called his service provider and had the site pulled.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 21 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-Nov-2002 12:35 GMT
...Wayne does have a terribly short fuse but it sounds like his ISP has left
themselves wide open to compensation claims.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 22 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 16-Nov-2002 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (DaveW):
Guys,
I've had a few hours to calm down a bit and I will tell you this. I did not think the original poster was Hisel, because of certain things which were said and the IP address from which it was posted. Thanks Kevin for letting me know exactly which Class C to ban.
In response, I cannot show you the entire thing, but I will state for the record that this is NOT some sort of innocent misunderstanding. Kevin Hisel, abusing (embarrassing) the name of CUCUG sent a legal demand to Communitech demanding that the images were on our server in strict violation of the DCMA (he even named chapter, rule, and verse in legal fashion) and demanding that the images either be removed immediately, or the site be shut down according to DCMA standards.
Communitech, per it's own rules sent that legal demand to the person who interacts with them on our behalf, with the deadline of 24 hours. The problem is, the person they sent this original notice to (not the Webmaster by the way) was on vacation and never received this e-mail until yesterday (three days too late). They never made a single attempt to contact me, root, admin, abuse, or any other Amiga.org address on this matter.
I had indeed received three e-mails from "Mr. Asshole" demanding that the images were somehow magically copyrighted and must be removed. To EACH, I responded that I would be happy to, if -- in accordance with copyright law -- he would document his ownership of said images. He claims to have never received any of THREE responses yet I received every demand from him.
I did not immediately remove the images from Amiga.org for the simple fact that they were uploaded by another site member from a source unknown. Therefore, I did not think it unreasonable to ask that he prove his ownership of said images before I removed them from the server.
Historically, I have had incidents in the past where Kevin Hisel claimed that everything between a site layout to icons, to actual Amiga news items (public domain) were "copyrighted", so over the last seven years of his bullshit, I had learned to take him with a grain of salt.
The end fact is..... Amiga.org was shut down for three days..... It is STRICTLY due to the legal demands of Kevin Hisel on behalf of CUCUG..... It is not a simple misunderstanding, and it was definitely intentional according to the demand made to Communitech. I do not blame Communitech for this. I blame Hisel, and I blame CUCUG for letting Hisel get away with it in their name.
I know that he blames Amiga.org for the death of the Amiga Web Directory, and I know he has hated me for years because I registered the Amiga.org domain before they could, but it's not my problem. This is yet another petty, vindictive, bullshit attempt to extract revenge on the Amiga community by a man who desperately needs to find a real life and realize that this does not make him any friends.
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 23 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Nov-2002 13:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Bill Hoggett):
"The AWD and CUCUG abandoned the Amiga community years ago. They left of their own choice citing that
there was no longer any point in supporting the platform. Quite frankly they, including Mr Hisel, can stay
gone. They are not needed and have nothing to contribute. It might be understandable if Mr Hisel and his
associates would provide proof of their trademark and copyright claims, but they repeatedly refuse to do
so. The AWD was a crucial resource to the Amiga community in its time, and Mr Hisel decided to kill it off.
It now seems that he has since been seeking to prevent anyone else from providing a similar service
unless they pay him for the priviledge. This isn't about confrontation, it's about greed. Sheer unadulterated
greed."
And perhaps disappointment that we are managing without him.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 24 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Grimmtooth on 16-Nov-2002 14:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (redrumloa):
> How nice of you to share that AFTER the fact.
WTF was he supposed to do? Post a big diatribe on amiga.org and ann.lu, stirring up shit to no good end? I know -- how about a rant on c.s.a.misc? THAT always gets results, right? It's certainly in keeping with long standing Amiga tradition, but I doubt it would get results.
If Hisel's story is to be believed, he gave Hunt every chance to do the right thing. And once the pics were removed at gunpoint, so to speak, Hunt had the option to NOT make things worse.
However, if there's one thing you can count on Wayne Hunt for, it's reaction.
Personally, I don't see why anyone would give a rat's ass for these pics, but Hisel appears to have copyright and Hunt appears to be ready to lose his site over it. There are some screwed up priorities here.
In wonder what Hisel's response would have been had Hunt asked nicely, after the fact, for permission to continue showing them. Not really a possibility in this universe, but in an alternate universe where Wayne actually has manners.
Hey, it's a shitty situation no matter how you slice it.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 25 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 16-Nov-2002 14:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Grimmtooth):
Update: The original poster of the images contacted me to state that he had received said images on a Zip disk given to him by Don Hicks (formerly owner/editor of the Amazing Amiga (?) Magazine) at the Gateway 97 show.
Given that information (now) do you still think me incorrect for asking for any degree of proof before removing them from the site?
The fact that digital images (instantly duplicatable) were received from Don Hicks certainly makes me wonder if I made the right choice by conceding to Mr. Hisel based on his magic "copyright".
Nonetheless, I find myself in a position where, if I pursue this issue, I might lose my Web hosting for Amiga.org. As such, Kevin apparently is able to win by default on yet another instance where he harrasses Amiga Webmasters without having the burden of proof on his shoulders.
I am very unhappy about this situation, but there is not much more I can do except to ban Kevin (along with the Greater Champaign area) and pass along a warning against this wanker.
Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 26 of 59ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 20 (redrumloa):
Message removed by CK for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Swearing/insults
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 27 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 16-Nov-2002 15:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Man on the moon):
Very mature. Do you blow your mother with that mouth?
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 28 of 59ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 27 (Wayne Hunt):
Message removed by CK for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 29 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 16-Nov-2002 15:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Daniel Miller):
Every once in a while I agree with you, Daniel ;-)
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 30 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 16-Nov-2002 15:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (redrumloa):
>I did not and just called his service provider and had the site pulled.
It seems very hard to me to believe that anyone can pull the plug on a website just by claiming to have a copyright.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 31 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 16-Nov-2002 15:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Wayne Hunt):
Ok. Now I would like to hear the other side of the story.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 32 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 16-Nov-2002 15:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Mike Bouma):
>Personally I believe it wasn't a good idea to delete Kevin's side of the
>story. If he was being offensive (as Wayne did...) or something similar I
>could have imagined it, but his posting seems perfectly reasonable and well
>worded to me. Why delete this whole thread?
Oh course how can we verify that this is indeed Kevin replying??? It's well known that particular members of the community are anti-Amiga.org and anti-Wayne. I'm not saying that Kevin's post isn't legit, but I've learned that atleast on ann, to take everything with a grain of salt.
Even if that really is Kevin's post, I still think he's a prick because although he has every right to enforce his Copyrights the idea of a community, especially a small one like the Amiga, is to share with each other. Sure they are Copyrighted, but you'd have to be a prick to take legal (or non-legal) action against someone for posting a few random personal pics from a trade show. But his self centered actions speak volumes about his personality and he doesn't seem like the type of person I'd want to hang around with. He reminds me of a typical traffic cop, sure he's just enforcing the law, but only pricks and assholes would want that job.
ps: I hate traffic cops with a passion!
- Mike
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 33 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 16-Nov-2002 16:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Man on the moon):
Aaah that explains it, it's just Goatroll. The first person to be banned from AO for posting beastiality pics and hacking the site.
What a loser.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 34 of 59ANN.lu
Message removed by CK for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 35 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 16-Nov-2002 16:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Wayne Hunt):
Wayne wrote:
"Update: The original poster of the images contacted me to state that he
had received said images on a Zip disk given to him by Don Hicks (formerly
owner/editor of the Amazing Amiga (?) Magazine) at the Gateway 97 show."
I see a claim, as often happens in the Amiga community, without proof
presented. But if Don Hicks wants to speak up in support of this, then
responsibility falls on his shoulders. Does Don Hicks have the permission
to pass along such photos for others to use? Being the person Don Hicks
is, certainly experienced as being, a publisher and editor, I'm sure he
understands the issues.
All things considered, this matter should be seen as a learning experience
for all who are involved and watching. Especially in light of the on going
IP bitch slapping of Amiga history....
There is another issue that has come to mind due to this matter. Many of
us involved in the online amiga oriented communications are aware of a
party, be it an individual(s) or group(s), that have pursued trashing
people and works in ways considered to be against the intent of the laws.
Acts of cracking web sites to forging posts to perhaps manipulating lines
of communication, such as the reported act of monopolizing Amiga Inc.
phone lines.
At this point in time I see such acts as being more supportive of
providing an excuse for failure rather than being a contributor to
failure. I mean if you are going to fail anyways, having such an excuse
only helps you stay on life support longer.
Personally I didn't notice Amiga.org was down until I saw the thread of
real reason why Amiga.org was down for three days. And this makes me
wonder if anyone else really noticed until after the fact of it getting
back online.
I do not condone such forgery, site cracking, etc., but rather recognize
it as being counter productive to it's surface appearance intent, and
against the law.
I suppose it was what Wayne, and perhaos a few others, have been saying about
Kevin. The question comes to mind..... Does Kevin have some inside information
regarding such acts?
Ultimately the direction of Amiga seems to be headed towards perhaps what is
best described as a secret cult club. Where to become a member you have to
prove yourself worthy of a given membership level. Not being involved in such,
I cannot begin to speculate as to what the membership rules are but can only
see what everyone else can see, from outside. And that is simply "excluded".
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 36 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 16-Nov-2002 16:18 GMT
Not that I want to be picky or something, but shouldn't this be a forum posting, or perhaps a rant?
(I'm just asking so back off if you can't take it)
/Björn
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 37 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 16-Nov-2002 16:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (amigammc):
AmigaMMC typed:
> Every once in a while I agree with you, Daniel ;-)
Uh oh now I am worried, ahaha!
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 38 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 16-Nov-2002 22:03 GMT
"Copyright, 1997, CUCUG - No Reposting. All photography Copyright, 1997 Kevin Hisel"
I am totally amazed that anyone would give a rat's ass about these pictures after so many years.
This could only happen in the "Amiga Community" ...
--------------
redfox
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 39 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by elektro on 17-Nov-2002 00:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (redfox):
i once took pictures of my dog barfing... and some prick stole them... bastard...
actually, no that can't be true... i don't have a dog?
;D
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 40 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 17-Nov-2002 03:31 GMT
It would take me less than 5 minutes to mirror the webpage which mr Hisel refered to as the source of his copyright claim and simply modify that line at the bottom. I could make it say: "Copyright, 1997, Noone. All photography Copyright, 1997 John Doe" if I wanted to, which would proove just how simple it is to make such claim. By the looks of mr Hisel's prior behaviour, it wouldn't suprise me at all if this is the way he did it.
I'm sorry but mr Hisel has made quite a name out of himself and I completely and fully understand Wayne for questioning the authenticity of that copyright claim. Even if mr Hisel would truly be an honest guy, who the fuh... "copulating" claims the copyright of such insignificant and completely worthless pictures if it isn't for the sole purpose of asking for trouble?
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 41 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Latinovich on 17-Nov-2002 08:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (redfox):
> "Copyright, 1997, CUCUG - No Reposting. All photography Copyright, 1997 Kevin Hisel"
>
> I am totally amazed that anyone would give a rat's ass about these pictures after so many years.
i don't think that's the point at all. the point is: CUCUG and/or Kevin Hisel owns the copyrighted materials. if someone were to use your copyrighted materials without your permissions, would you not be the least bit concerned about it?
and please don't state that "well if it was amiga this or that, NO!"- your amiga fanaticism should have no bearing on it.
-mike 'skyguy' latinovich
disclosure: yeah, i'm a CUCUG member. at least we'll have some "amiga news" for our next meeting, ha!
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 42 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Latinovich on 17-Nov-2002 08:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Mike Latinovich):
also... for the folks saying that khisel has just changed the html content to say the copyright was in effect at time (rather than being there the whole time)...
(granted, this doesn't show or prove much other than the file in question hasn't been modified since november 1997, but it's more than can be said about peoples' theories that CUCUG/khisel is just tossing in copyrights when the need arises)
http://www.rexswain.com/cgi-bin/httpview.cgi?http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1997/gateway97/index.html
-mike 'skyguy' latinovich
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 43 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by The_Editor on 17-Nov-2002 08:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Mike Latinovich):
Actually, Some websites HAVE used my recent pictures of WoAse without asking!
Am I bothered ?? Nope... Kind of flattered actually.
That might be different if I made a living out of photography and needed to sell those pictures.
But if I needed to do that then I wouldn't have posted them onto ANY website, now would I !!
btw .. Some webmasters HAVE asked permission.. Some accredited me for the photos.
Who cares? But, I have to admit....
Its nice to be asked.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 44 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 17-Nov-2002 14:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Mike Latinovich):
Actually there is a serious question about whether or not he or CUCUG actually do own these pictures, and it appears the pictures were supplied on a Zip disk at the show. So CUCUG could have just been using the same images that were supplied to somebody else (that eventually ended up on Amiga.org) and thus they don't own the copyright.
The "given out on a zip disk" argument doesn't swim well with Kevin's argument...
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 45 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Kevin Hisel on 17-Nov-2002 15:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Graham):
The pictures are mine. I took them. I drove to St. Louis on March 16, 1997 for the sole purpose to take pictures of the show and write my show report for the CUCUG web site. I had them developed at Schnuck's grocery store 1-hour processing on a Sunday night and scanned them in using a crappy 300-dpi scanner. I posted them to the site (as I recall) that same night. I did the same thing in 1998 and then in 1999.
Here is the full collection of Gateway shows I've covered:
http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1997/gateway97/
http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1998/amiga98/
http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1999/990313-amiga99.html
Why am I so "attached" to these pictures? Well, I took them for the CUCUG web site. Wayne has said so many nasty things about CUCUG and me over the years that I really wasn't willing to allow him to post my pictures on his site.
Wayne blames me for taking his site down for three days. The fact is if he would have just replied to my e-mails I would have never been forced to complain to his ISP.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 46 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 17-Nov-2002 15:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (The_Editor):
I also have no problem with Amiga fans distributing or sharing pictures taken by me at the Benelux Amiga Show. But that shouldn't mean everyone needs to think like me!
For me that picture report was solely a fun contribution to the Amiga community, but pictures do have (historical) value and if the creator does not want to share them with just everyone, they have every right to do whatever (legal) action necessary to protect their property.
From my outsider perspective, Kevin was right on this particular issue IMO. He asked Wayne several times to remove the pictures and his ownership claim is plausible. So contacting the ISP sounds like a reasonable follow-up step. That Amiga.org was taken down is very unfortunate, but as an ISP reviewing the evidence I would have done the same. Just too bad the ISP contacted the wrong person, then this all could have been avoided.
I had to deal with similar issues in the past myself, for instance a long time ago, an AmigaRing member contacted me and claimed that another AmigaRing member had taken content from his website without his permission, luckily this issue was solved soon afterwards. Sometimes a little outside involvement does help, instead of playing hard ball. :)
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 47 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 17-Nov-2002 15:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Kevin Hisel):
Who cares about your personal grudge against Wayne, using that that as a reason only degrades you even more.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 48 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 17-Nov-2002 15:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (samface):
It's not like Wayne has worded his allegations that nicely himself. In fact I can imagine Kevin not wanting to share his property with people who think of him in such a matter.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 49 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 17-Nov-2002 16:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Mike Bouma):
>It's not like Wayne has worded his allegations that nicely himself.
Why should he? This is the same person who threatened Amiga Realm for the use of the term "Web Directory" on multiple occasions, among other things. His reputation is well known.
The reason for Amiga.org's outage is revealed.. : Comment 50 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Andrews Jr on 17-Nov-2002 16:10 GMT
I'm confused. Are amiga.org, ann.lu, amigarealm.com, cucug.org, and so on corporate, financially profitable companies? Uh, in my opinion, No!
I'm so lost and confused, please enlighten me as to why a handful of Amiga users maintaining sites as above are bitching over "well" petty issues. Is this like an adolescence, "elite", "scener" issue?
Christ it's just a handful of guys, putting in a couple of hours overtime in to provide a service to like-minded users of the same operating system - well in my opinion, anyway.
The whole scenario seems, farcical in my opinion.
With the current state of affairs, i.e. the bitching and whining between us over such trivialities [which in me opinion are comical], how on earth can we regard ourselves as a community of users? Besides, what do the newbies' to Amiga oriented websites think when they read this type of dung. "Their my photos, not yours. I spent $3.80 getting those developed - Grow up guys for god sake - gezz"
Per Kevin Hisel, Tu Cazzo! "Kevin 0 - L'Mondo 1"
Ciao,
Skippy
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