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[News] Elbox clarifies its positionANN.lu
Posted on 18-Nov-2002 16:08 GMT by Lewis Mistreated160 comments
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M. Wloczysiak has just posted an open letter on Elbox site, in which he explains that the Rigid Disk Block trashing code can effectively be found in all their drivers, but it's triggered only if someone tries to crack 'em and, according to him, the malicious code makes no damages, other than the five minutes of work needed to restore the RDSK sector [which] does not seem to be a heavy punishment for stealing and/or cracking software...
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 51 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 18-Nov-2002 17:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (miksuh):
Unfortunately we can't neglegt laws here. We can each and everyone individually forgive them (when they finally apologize.. IF they do) some day, but as they have knowingly breaked both laws and ethincs while keeping this up I can't see why they should not face the legal consequences of their actions. We have no way of knowing how long this has been going on (anyone with old drivers?) but even those admitted cases (infecting all machines having Spider and Usb cards) is really bad.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 52 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 18-Nov-2002 17:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Chris Hodges):
> Yeah, I'm very sorry, but my wording got worse after reading the press statement
> a few times.
I'm sorry Chris, but I wasn't blaming you, I was rather blaming Elbox for using that "protection" word... This is all so freakin' revolting...
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 53 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 17:10 GMT
I bet my pants that from TODAY on every cracker and programmer outside will take a closer look for future Elbox activity and drivers. No matter how much Elbox apologizes now, they are fucked. Elbox exactly set something up in the community that they not liked to see - Investigations into their drivers. But this will happen. Every single Bit comming from Elbox will get reverse engineered and verified by crackers and programmers all over this globe. We make sure that Elbox won't fuck with peoples systems. It's sad that people who spent their hard earned money for Elbox hardware get treatened like this. Elbox deserves sidekicks from all places.
Stand up, go out and tell everyone outside how much Elbox sucks. Wherever you read Elbox, write some lines to make them look shit. That's what will happen.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 54 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 17:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (catohagen):
>so, the rdb trashing stuff did only "disable" your harddrive and you have to
>install the drive cyliders/heads and stuff like that if you used cracked >software.
>Everything on your harddrive is intact....
>whats the big deal ?
But you didn't knows that before before they told it, that you must only re-read hdd specs.
Someone maybe thought that he lost all datas and formatted our hdd :(
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 55 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by plz Elbox tell me, am i a lamb? on 18-Nov-2002 17:30 GMT
I just have questions for the amiga community :
1) Is MEDIATOR supposed to open the PCI to AMIGA WORLD ?
2) Why should we must be forced to use ELBOX SPIDER (who is only a bare pc world card) USB PCI CARD ?
3) Mr Mariusz Wloczysiak, are you the BILL GATES's brother in law ?
4) Mr Mariusz Wloczysiak do you considering AMIGA USERS as LAMB ?
The future of AMIGA is not in this company, only A1 and Peg can stand the competition, so stop buying hardware hacks, P5/DCE's time is over, look forward.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 56 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Radfoo on 18-Nov-2002 17:31 GMT
Anyone received the driver updates for there Mediator yet? I have not received any!
P.S. Anyone want to buy an A1200 Mediator?
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 57 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 17:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Radfoo):
I don't received my drivers either, nor am I interested in getting them. I offered my Elbox hardware on eBay today. Hope someone is going to buy them.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 58 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 17:37 GMT
So finally Elbox admit to breaking the law (by including malicious code specifically designed to destroy system data on an Amiga).
Who now is going to be stupid enough to ever trust anything from Elbox ever again?
Hmmmm. I wonder. Perhaps a word or two to "the authorities" reporting the existence of the code, and pointing out that Elbox admit that it is there - that ought to prove interesting :-)
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 59 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 18-Nov-2002 17:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Anonymous):
Well.. There are plenty of people who dislike (politely speaking) close source drivers.. How about posting this Mess to Slashdot?
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 60 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Radfoo on 18-Nov-2002 17:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (JoannaK):
No please dont, it would just discourage people from using Amigas!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 61 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Gerbinist on 18-Nov-2002 17:43 GMT
I'm waiting for my Mediator SX.
I hope it arrives soon, can't wait to use it ;)
I hope Elbox makes more hardware too :)
Bye
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 62 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 18-Nov-2002 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (plz Elbox tell me, am i a lamb?):
>1) Is MEDIATOR supposed to open the PCI to AMIGA WORLD ?
What stops anyone developing their own stack on top of pci.library
>2) Why should we must be forced to use ELBOX SPIDER (who is only a bare pc world card) USB PCI CARD ?
No one is forcing anything AFAIK. What is a "pc world card"?
> 3) Mr Mariusz Wloczysiak, are you the BILL GATES's brother in law ?
Eh?
>4) Mr Mariusz Wloczysiak do you considering AMIGA USERS as LAMB ?
Eh???
> The future of AMIGA is not in this company, only A1 and Peg can stand the
> competition, so stop buying hardware hacks, P5/DCE's time is over, look
> forward.
Well that I agree with.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 63 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Lewis on 18-Nov-2002 17:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Anonymous):
> I offered my Elbox hardware on eBay today. Hope someone is going to buy them.
Gimme a link, I'll be happy to buy it.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 64 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 18-Nov-2002 17:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Sam Thomas):
> Does Elbox's post cover the requirements of Chris Hodges to allow the
> use of the Poseidon stack with the spider drivers?
Chris required an apology amongst other things. Do you see an apology in Elbox' post? I don't. They make it all sound like it's an evil plot by jealous rivals.
I say burn them at the stake! Criminal and malicious practices need to be rooted out and exterminated from the Amiga market, before they stifle and kill off bona-fide developers who refuse to stoop to these levels of corruption. And that goes across the board, not just for Elbox. The Amiga market has been the "Badlands" of the computer industry for too long.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 65 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 17:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (DaveW):
> > The future of AMIGA is not in this company, only A1 and Peg can stand the
> > competition, so stop buying hardware hacks, P5/DCE's time is over, look
> > forward.
> >
> Well that I agree with.
I don't.... Phase 5 did a lot of good quality hardware for the Amiga computer. No matter what problems they got before it ended. Luckely it's nice to know that a lot of Phase 5 members are backing bplan. Somehow this gives me the feeling to use quality hardware from a well named company. Now please don't nail me that they disappeared with the money of customers. I heard these stories but we must also admit that their hardware was cool. Without the patriotic work of Phase 5 there wouldn't be any cool PPC mobos for Amiga today. Not to mention all the other cool hardware.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 66 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by plz Elbox tell me, am i a lamb? on 18-Nov-2002 17:53 GMT
In "PC world card" i mean PCI cards sold with only M$ drivers.
but i know you've already understand :P
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 67 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by q on 18-Nov-2002 17:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Anonymous):
Well, maybe I'm stupid enough... :-)
I've been planning to get PCI-busboard for my A4000/PPC/060 for so long, and Elbox's products hardware-wise looks still best - nothing major going on at Prometheus-front, G-Rex ain't gonna support (future) AmigaOS after MorphOS - I still am confident with Elbox's hardware.
And they claimed that they have removed those rdb-codes from their drivers, which should be posted to registered users during next few hours/days.
And even better, it seems that OS4.0 will give us unified PCI library and drivers, that will support mediator.
It seems that most of those who bash Elbox (justifiably in most cases) are not active users of classic hardware & Elbox's hw - what I have heard and experienced personally before this with Elbox and their hw, was mainly positive.
I'm no way defending what Elbox has done etc., but I still think that anyone thinking upgrading their Amiga systems should and probably will consider Elbox's hw - there really aren't that many options, unless you want to totally switch to new system (AmigaOne, Pegasos). I still hope that there will someday be SharkPPC+, so I could upgrade my classic Amiga to the max.
-Q
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 68 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 17:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (q):
You are not defending it but you are stupid anyways!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 69 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Nov-2002 17:59 GMT
Good to see finally some unity on ANN. Let's go to the details:
>The whole affair was initiated by a person who publicly confessed committing a
>computer misuse offence.
It was initiated by a person... ? What an act of arrogance. It was initiated by you (Elbox) by putting the illegal code.
>That person admitted that he had cracked one of our drivers. After illegal
>obtaining, decrypting, disassembling and modifying of our driver,
Oh so what the cracker does illegally is bad and what you do illegally is good?
>the cracker discovered code in the driver, which was part
>of the anti-piracy safeguard.
First: nobody gives you the damn right to mess with people's property (and sure as hell one's hard drive is not your property). Second: you just said it yourself "the hacker discovered" - the code was already there because you though maliciously even before anyone attempted to crack it. The result is that you cannot be trusted and I hope nobody here will give you anymore money. You certainly won't be seeing mine. Funny that people criticize Microsoft behavior and then act far worse.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 70 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by plz Elbox tell me, am i a lamb? on 18-Nov-2002 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Anonymous):
In reply to comment 65 from anonymous:
I never tell P5 products are bad.
I just say that EXTRA Next Generation hardware on top of old hardware is obsolete.
Times changes.
Let's start with a REAL NEW platform !!!!!!
The Amiga community really need that ! :))
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 71 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Radfoo):
>Anyone received the driver updates for there Mediator yet? I have not received >any!
I didn't received too :(
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 72 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Q on 18-Nov-2002 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Anonymous):
>You are not defending it but you are stupid anyways!
Well, maybe it isn't still too late for me, because I at least acknowledge my stupidity.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 73 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Nov-2002 18:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (koan):
In a court of law all you need to prove is that the code was put there with malicious intentions. Obviously that doesn't apply to a bug. Elbox's code is not a bug, is a feature.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 74 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Nov-2002 18:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (catohagen):
>well, they havent messed on my hds and the code should only become active *if*
>you used cracked drivers....and who needs cracked drivers ? The software comes
>with the hardware....
Oh yeah, what a nice reasons... "who cares if people commit a crime as long as they don't do it to me" --- whatever...
What if one of those nice people that got nothing else to do but program viri all day find a way to activate the code in your legally purchased driver?
Let me know and I'll laugh for you.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 75 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 18-Nov-2002 18:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Radfoo):
Oh? Do you really belive that trying to hide this size of Idiotism (Elbox behaviour) is going to help anyone?
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 76 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by q on 18-Nov-2002 18:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (amigammc):
"Our fully legal anti-piracy safeguard lost its purpose when information about it was spread among crackers. Therefore, its code has been removed from all our drivers to Mediator and Spider.."
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 77 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 18-Nov-2002 18:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (JoannaK):
Do you really think that shouting from the rooftops that a company in the Amiga
marketplace has done such a thing?
Look at who is walking in the street while you are shouting:
1. People who will say "whats Amiga, isn't that something for kids"
2. People who will say "Elbox who"
3. People who will say "Damn Im not buying an Amiga then" ( they won't be able to differentiated between an AmigaONE or an Amiga 1200 with a Mediator ) and they will be the post that everyone reads before you get to your followup.
4. People who will just not give a damn.
5. The people who do give a damn, who are on here anyway.
What exactly will you achieve apart from clueless ranting and tarnishing of the
image of Amiga and Amiga related companies?
I don't remember anyone posting on Slashdot about Alive-mediasoft.
No, I put it to you that some in their haste to destroy Elbox's business will
end up harming much much more through ill aimed consumer protests.
Vote with your wallet and if you have a library where this code is and you think
that in your country's legal system it puts your data under undue risk then for gods sake set up a class action lawsuit.
Otherwise, great, we have heard your view. Thanks.
Dave.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 78 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 18-Nov-2002 18:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Anonymous):
>Right... in Italy.... You need to find a suitable law text of the county where
>Elbox resides. Or an International law for europe countries.
No, it doesn't work like that. The law applies to all products legally sold. And you can be sure that similar laws exist everywhere in the Union.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 79 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 18:25 GMT
What about the A1200 powerflyer? It kept destroying all my partitions
every two weeks or so, and for a huge hard drive repairing
takes a lot longer than 5 minutes. No need to mention I haven't
been doing any "cracking", just using it. I finally decided to
remove the bloody card. The original amiga interface is a lot slower
but at least it's reliable.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 80 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 18-Nov-2002 18:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Anonymous):
Odd one this, you only get flamed if you are a capable programmer who engineers
something in like this rather than an incompetant.
Incompetence is OK in the Amiga market.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 81 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Nov-2002 18:43 GMT
My God ... Elbox HAVE TO BE PERSECUTED VIA LEGA ACTIONS!
Noone can dstroy DATA of a computer for cracking action!
**** And if I have a virus that modify elbox files????? ****
I will get a lost RDB???!!????
YOU at elbox are simply fool and must close down not tomorrow but now.
You are illegal!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 82 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Nov-2002 18:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (marktime):
... No coment to this idiot ELBOX man post!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 83 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by q on 18-Nov-2002 18:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Eva):
"Our fully legal anti-piracy safeguard lost its purpose when information about it was spread among crackers. Therefore, its code has been removed from all our drivers to Mediator and Spider.."
So, after driver update viruses you described are no longer threat, but still I would have expected better answer from them..
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 84 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by nOw2 on 18-Nov-2002 18:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (koan):
An EULA can't override the law of the land, and I believe most such disclaimers include a line similar to "to the extent of the law".
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 85 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Nov-2002 18:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
Absolutely I agree!
The people that use only a single word to defend in some way ILLEGAL PIRATE AND HACKER LIKE ELBOX PROGRAMMERS are fool!
HOW can someone defend a company that desroy the data of a person?
THERE ARE LEGAL action in UE that will destroy also any DISYRIBUTOR OF THIS ILLEGAL SHIT targed ELBOX.
WTF first of all I will call all italian resellers to show what is Elbox and be sure, in Europe and USA this kind of HACKER action is punished also with PRISON!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 86 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Nov-2002 18:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Anonymous):
You are stupid!
All the resellers IN EUROPE and USA that sell THIS HACKING ELBOX THINGS IN UE CAN BE PERSECUTED WITH THIS LAW OF THE 1993 THAT IS A MERE COPY OF THE European Community LAW of the 1991!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 87 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by turtle on quaaludes on 18-Nov-2002 19:00 GMT
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ELBOX IS BUSTED DAMN DIRTY APES GOING TO PRISON
DROP THE SOAP BABY, HOPE YA GREASED IT UP
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 88 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Nov-2002 19:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (anonymous):
This LAW is the mere copy of the European ordinament declared in 1991 about software. A lot of country use the same law with little modification outside of Europe!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 89 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Nov-2002 19:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Fabio Alemagna):
Right Fabio!
Suppose that a virus modify the elbox incrimined files in some way and that the "protection" starts the attack!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 90 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 18-Nov-2002 19:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Eva):
If you are going to continue to cite this law can you please provide a reference to the open government archives or at least a title that can be
searched/clarified.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 91 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Nov-2002 19:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (q):
NOONE have to defend HACKER activity like Elbox one!
You have to image things like this: buy a ORIGINAL COMPLETE elbox solution like USB, connect an HD, work on it for month...
After sometime a virus infect and modify a Elbox BASYTARD file ... YOU ARE FUCKED coz their "protection " will delete your HD RDB aka all your partitions!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 92 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 18-Nov-2002 19:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (q):
After that the things was enlighetd??????
And why now they destroy this code?????
Because it's ILLEGAL???????
They have to close!
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 93 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by fabio Alemagna on 18-Nov-2002 19:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (DaveW):
I think we all gave you the needed references, didn't we?
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 94 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by q on 18-Nov-2002 19:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Eva):
Still not defending, but:
>You have to image things like this:
>buy a ORIGINAL COMPLETE elbox solution
>like USB, connect an HD, work on it
>for month...
>After sometime a virus infect and modify
>a Elbox BASYTARD file ... YOU ARE FUCKED
>coz their "protection " will delete your
>HD RDB aka all your partitions!
After I get all that hw, and wait for a month, I hope that I already have AmigaOS 4.0 - so no Elbox-drivers anymore. And in addition, Elbox themselves said in their news that this malicious peace of code is removed from their drivers, as I have already replied to you. Still, this has happened, and it has made me angry. Yet, I do not see any alternatives hw-wise for my Amiga. I just hope and infact believe that in future I can use non-Elbox drivers, and even with Elbox's drivers there are much better chance that they are "clean" - there are people, who are watching them very closely, so probably they won't try this "copy-protection" anymore.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 95 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Nov-2002 19:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Eva):
> > In Reply to Comment 34:
> Absolutely I agree!
> > In Reply to Comment 37:
> You are stupid!
Won't you mind to decide wether I am absolutely right or totally stupid ? #34 and #37 are written by me the same person you refering to :)
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 96 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 18-Nov-2002 19:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (q):
> After I get all that hw, and wait for a month, I hope that I already have
> AmigaOS 4.0 - so no Elbox-drivers anymore.
And how should that work when ELBOX only gives the info about their pci.library,
but not to the underlying HW to Hyperion ?
You do remember that ELBOX does also not want OpenPCI on their board, so there will
be NO non-ELBOX-(lowlevel)drivers.
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 97 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 18-Nov-2002 19:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (koan):
You are looking for the Computer Misuse Act 1984 that makes what Elbox did completely illegal, and similar cases have stood up in court (pirated copy did damage to computer in similar manner, software company was liable).
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 98 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by KOKO on 18-Nov-2002 19:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
TKS Elbox, you have one more customer - me :)
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 99 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by q on 18-Nov-2002 19:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Eva):
>And why now they destroy this code?????
>Because it's ILLEGAL???????
>They have to close!
Yes, that's very likely possible.
Another reason why it was removed, is like you said earlier - some virii-coder might take advantage of this code in their drivers. Also, the public knowledge of this "protection" renders it completely useless for elbox.
But when you say they should close, I have to disagree - there are many customers, most of them silent people, who are happy with their products (and naturally unhappy with this ugly game Elbox played), who still want support for their products.
- Q
Elbox clarifies its position : Comment 100 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by turtle on quaaludes on 18-Nov-2002 19:26 GMT
SO ELBOX MOUTH OR ASS? HOW WILL YOU GET YO CREAM FILLING YOU DAMN TWINKIE?
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