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[News] SUBWAY USB Controller announcementANN.lu
Posted on 19-Nov-2002 23:42 GMT by Michael Böhmer24 comments
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SUBWAY usb controller is available from now on. See details page for more information. Garching, 19.11.2002 SUBWAY USB controller for Amiga (clockport version) available !

E3B is pleased to announce the availability of the USB controller SUBWAY, which has been presented the public at the Amiga trade show in Cologne 2001.
Unfortunately we were very busy since this trade show with the Zorro USB card HIGHWAY and its networking module NORWAY, but nevertheless we have not forgotten the "small" module SUBWAY. Despite the not very good situation on the Amiga Classic market we haven't stopped further development.

We at E3B believe that Amiga Classic should not drop of the edge of technology, even with the long forecast new hardware platforms rising finally at the horizon.

As many Zorro card owners asked for compatibility of SUBWAY with common clockport featured card like the Xsurf, isdn surfer or the Buddha Flash, we consequently improvemented the SUBWAY design to fulfill these wishes. Due to the different timings and signals on these non-Commodore clockports only one version of the SUBWAY exists now, which works with these faster operated clock ports.
We would like to thank Jens Schönfeld for supplying us with test cards.

Therefore SUBWAY can also be used in already fully equipped Zorro systems, which have no Zorro slot free anymore for a HIGHWAY. Also Amiga 1200 users which use PCI as bus solution, but having no PCI slot free any more or want to spare it for high volume data applications can use the SUBWAY as USB solution out of the box.

By introducing the world's smallest USB controller SUBWAY E3B is able to offer a complete range of solutions for USB and ethernet. Together with the USB stack Poseidon (by Chris Hodges, http://www.platon42.de) and its GUI Trident (which both have been proven its feasability in every day work) it is possible to use up to four modern USB devices from the PC market without any further additional hardware (like hubs) directly on the Amiga 1200.

Distribution of SUBWAY will be handled by our distributor KDH Datentechnik http://www.kdh-datentechnik.com.

We at E3B would like to thank all people who have helped us to develop and improve our USB products according to your wishes.
Don't stop asking us.
Anyhow, we want to apologize for the long delay which has been made by us with the introduction of the SUBWAY.

E3B will be present on the Aachen Amiga trade show at KDH Datentechnik.
You're invited to visit us there and test our USB controllers HIGHWAY / SUBWAY live.
We also are looking forward to meet you there for discussion. If you are interested in an USB controller for Amiga Classic, feel free to test your USB devices on compliance there !

SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 1 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 20-Nov-2002 10:58 GMT
Good news for A1200 owners. Especially for A1200 Mediator owners who want to use USB without the threat of losing their RDB. Certainly the Highway/Subway is my preferred USB solution now.
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 2 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 20-Nov-2002 11:13 GMT
Good news :) Especially because I don't have enough free slots for spider in my Mediator :) I have mediator 1200 with 4th slots, and the only slot which free now is reserved for the tv-tuner :)
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 3 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Denis on 20-Nov-2002 15:55 GMT
Highway and Subway are USB1.1 adapters. USB1.1 is dead. Check yourself: http://www.usb-20.com
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 4 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Böhmer on 20-Nov-2002 16:21 GMT
Hi Denis,
check yourself. And read the spec. USB2 devices start life at the bus as USB1.1 devices, and *only* if supported by host, are enlighted to USB2 devices.
Most USB2 devices support also 1.1 operation.
Moreover, better have an USB1.1 flash card reader, which allows data transfers from your digicam to your A1200, than having an USB2 one and can't use it.
I think a specialized USB2.0 device distributor is not a real proof for your thesis.
Michael
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 5 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Denis on 20-Nov-2002 17:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Michael Böhmer):
> I think a specialized USB2.0 device distributor is not a real proof for your thesis.
USB1.1 is dead!
If www.usb-20.com is not enough proof for you, check the web site of creators of the USB technology http://www.usb.org
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 6 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 20-Nov-2002 17:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Denis):
... and now tell me *one* USB controller card available that supports USB2.0 by hard- and software.
And then again, USB1.1 is not even as dead as the Amiga is claimed to be.
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 7 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 20-Nov-2002 19:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Denis):
Have anyone ever told to you that your messages are quite boring and have way too much commercialism in them?
I can't tell what others here need from their USB's but on my PC I have Epson photoprinter, Agfa Scanner, Datafab Smartmedia reader (for digicam) and couple more or less anonymous taiwanese items (hub, dual serial port module and Webcam) all connected to this machine. And they all DO work and keep on working no matter how much you shout that USB1 is dead.
So, please wake up. Even having USB1 is a great step forward on Amiga. Besides.. there is only one El-cheapo nec card sold as 'usb2' to no-know-better Amiga users, and it does not have 2.0 drivers yet. So whatever you purchase it's Usb1 at best..
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 8 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 20-Nov-2002 21:22 GMT
USB 2.0 is a joke. The theorietical speeds it supposedly can attain are a lie.
What happens when you have USB 1.1 and 2.0 devices on the same bus? Everything crawls at 1.1 speeds. To get around this you need to buy a 2.0 hub. What a joke.
With firewire you don't have this problem! Just connect the slower devices last in the chain.
USB 2.0 is a sad sad joke. Its intended use is a port, not a bus. For example using a USB 2.0 printer you're expected to connect it directly into the CPU.
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 9 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Denis on 20-Nov-2002 22:01 GMT
USB1.1 is a very outdated joke!
Here's a quick list of the maximum transfer rates for various connections in megabits (Mb) and megabytes (MB) per second from www.usb.org:
serial port: 115kbits/s (.115Mbits/s)
standard parallel port: 115kBYTES/s (.115MBYTES/s)
Original USB: 12Mbits/s (1.5MBYTES/s) <--------------USB 1.1
ECP/EPP parallel port: 3MBYTES/s
IDE: 3.3-16.7MBYTES/s
SCSI-1: 5MBYTES/s
SCSI-2 (Fast SCSI, Fast Narrow SCSI): 10MBYTES/s
Fast Wide SCSI (Wide SCSI): 20MBYTES/s
Ultra SCSI (SCSI-3, Fast-20, Ultra Narrow): 20MBYTES/s
UltraIDE: 33MBYTES/s
Wide Ultra SCSI (Fast Wide 20): 40MBYTES/s
Ultra2 SCSI: 40MBYTES/s
IEEE-1394: 100-400Mbits/s (12.5--50MBYTES/s) <--------FireWire
Hi-Speed USB: 480Mbits/s <----------------------------USB 2.0
Wide Ultra2 SCSI: 80MBYTES/s
Ultra3 SCSI: 80MBYTES/s
Wide Ultra3 SCSI: 160MBYTES/s
FC-AL Fiber Channel: 100-400MBYTES/s
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 10 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by StormLord on 20-Nov-2002 22:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Denis):
YEAH YEAH YEAH>>>>....
blah blah blah...
tell me of ONE f*cking printer that needs more of the bandwidth of 1.5megs/sec
again a web cam that need more that that..
and again maybe a scanner ??
your claims is just rediculus when we are talking about a port that most of its usage is to host some slow by architecture peripherals...
and don't tell me about disks cause there are enough fast ports for them.. don't need another one, it only make things messier
again when we have peripherals that need high bandwidth there are ALL and again ALL in other ports like:
Digital Video cameras : Firewire (prepare for the new firewire for some astonishments speeds)
Disks : SCSI and firewire
Cyclinder scanner for prepress/press : SCSI
do you need another fast port when it has no ground left for it ?
NAhhhh.. don't think so..
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 11 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by StormLord on 20-Nov-2002 22:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (StormLord):
Also I would be very happy if the subway could reach the theoritical limit of 1.5megs/secs...
But again .. clockport.. don't think so..
I belive it will not reach 500KB/sec
As for higher speed for the classik amiga: NOT a CHANCe , Not even the fastest native bus (Z3) can reach more than 12-13megs/sec
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 12 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Denis on 20-Nov-2002 23:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (StormLord):
>As for higher speed for the classik amiga: NOT a CHANCe , Not even the fastest native bus (Z3) can reach more than 12-13megs/sec
12-13 MB/s is not bad!
The real transfers on PC are about the same. Check here:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,31091,00.asp
The results of the performance tests from this web site:
Iomega HDD Portable 20GB Hard Drive:
USB 1.1 - 0.91 MB/s
USB 2.0 - 7.05 MB/s
Firewire - 7.74 MB/s
WiebeTech MicroGB 30GB:
USB 1.1 - 1.02 MB/s
USB 2.0 - 7.46 MB/s
Firewire - 7.22 MB/s
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 13 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by lopez on 21-Nov-2002 06:49 GMT
the only important thing is : USB on Amiga : it works !!!! : that's all
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 14 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Boehmer on 21-Nov-2002 06:56 GMT
Hi Denis,
I still don't get your point.
Are you angry as someone is still supporting Amiga Classic with new tailormade hardware (and not just PC hardware, which is used as hardware dongle for a driver system) ? Would you be happier if there was no USB solution at all ?
What's your problem then ?
Maybe you can explain. There are - and will always be - other bus systems which are faster than those you have. So what ?
Best regards, Michael
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 15 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by sighi on 21-Nov-2002 08:38 GMT
re: usb 1 is dead
USB is dead, long live IEEE-1394!
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 16 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 21-Nov-2002 10:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Denis):
You are a very angry man. The High/Subway solutions allow you to use hundreds of devices that are on sale now, no matter how much you shout about USB1.1 being dead. So, therefore, you are not making any points.
Its like going up to someone who drives a 2 year old car, and shouting "THE 2000 VECTRA IS DEAD!!!!! YOU SHOULD BE DRIVING A *NEW* VECTRA!!!!" its irrelevant!
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 17 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 21-Nov-2002 11:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Denis):
Bullshit, there is lot's of USB devices on sale which do support USB1.1. Most of the USB2.0 devices do work in USB1.1 mode too. So there really is no problem.
Do you really think that newer version of USB automatically kills the older version ? No it takes time and it's normal that there is backward compatibility in new devices.
And if we talk about sped then USB1.1 1,5MB/s is more than enough when you think that devices connected to USB are usually slowspeed devices anyway. You really don't need more speed for printer, scanner, webcam, keyboard or mouse. And connecting harddrive to USB-port is stupid and crazy idea.
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 18 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 21-Nov-2002 15:23 GMT
Maybe for Grex users Subway is a good option but not for Mediator owners. Mediator users have a much better option - Spider USB 2.0.
I use Spider in Mediator 1200SX. Spider is made up of two completely separate USB 1.1 controllers and one USB 2.0 controller all in one PCI card. The card has 5 USB ports. As for now Spider software allows use of two USB 1.1 controllers. Both work at full USB 1.1 speed and reach speed as in PC machines. I can transmit data through USB ZIP and USB Card Reader at the same time, connected to different controllers, and both devices still work at their max speed. Elbox works on drivers for the USB 2.0 part of the Spider card.
How to compare Spider USB 2.0 to Highway or Subway?
On Highway E3B benchmarks website I found that Highway does not reach USB 1.1 speed. It does not exceed 0.3 - 0.5MB/s.
And what about Subway speed? Has anybody tested what USB 1.1 means in it? The point is that 4-bit A1200 clock port, to which Subway is connected, has much lower data transfer rate than Zorro2, to which Highway is connected.
Even if Spider were 2 times as expensive as Subway, for Mediator users it is simply more attractive. I swapped my Mediator for the 6-PCI slots SX version to use it and I think it was worthwhile.
That's my 5 cents for the USB in Amiga case.
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 19 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 21-Nov-2002 16:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Rat):
drivespeed usbscsi.device 0
Drive information:
Type: DISK
Manufacturer Name: IOMEGA
Drive Name: ZIP 250
Drive Revision: 79.U
Raw read: 735549 bytes/sec
with the latest highwayusb.device.
(BTW: The clockport has only 4 bit address line, but 8 bit data lines).
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 20 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 21-Nov-2002 17:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Rat):
I didn't know you could use the GREX with an A1200...
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 21 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Böhmer on 21-Nov-2002 21:42 GMT
Hi Rat,
(or whoever you are, as you don't use a realname or mail address, but for sure you are from Poland as your IP tells me :)
I won't tell much about Spider, as too many things were discussed the last days, only - at Graz trade show we compared (inofficially, and not approved by the press department of Elbox) the same LaCie drive with HIGHWAY and Spider... Spider reached about 740kB.
Hm. Taken into account that Zorro II is 16bit, and HIGHWAY is non-DMA, while PCI is 32bit and DMA, and seeing that Chris reaches 740kB/s with a *mechanical* drive on Zorro II HIGHWAY... judge for yourself.
Anyhow, Spider resellers have never published any benchmarks officially.
May each Amiga user choose which solution suits its needs best.
Michael
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 22 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by lopez on 22-Nov-2002 06:21 GMT
I agree with michael :
"May each Amiga user choose which solution suits its needs best for his Amiga".(mediator or not)
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 23 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 23-Nov-2002 18:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Michael Böhmer):
Yes, I live in Poland. Is it any problem to you?
I have a Spider card and all my tests were done in my own system, so I'm sure what I am saying.
I am not amazed that Spider resellers do not have to publish any official Spider benchmarks. The reason is that every USB device connected to the Spider runs at its maximum speed. Spider hardware is 100% compatible with USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 specifications. I can simply check the USB device parameters at the producer's website and I know what speed to expect from its working with Spider.
See the Highway benchmarks' page: http://www.e3b.de/usb/bench_e.html
Computer Zip 100 Zip 250 FlashMate (*) LaCie Hexa
A2000-1 --- 450 kB/s 250 kB/s 490 kB/s
A4000-1 --- 320 kB/s 340 kB/s 340 kB/s
A4000-2 495 kB/s --- --- ---
These Highway speeds are lower than they should be for the specific USB devices, and these speeds depend on the Amiga processor's speed.
How is it with Subway? Why are there no information on its speed?
SUBWAY USB Controller announcement : Comment 24 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Böhmer on 25-Nov-2002 00:21 GMT
Hi Rat,
no, I don't have any problems with you living in Poland. Just was a amazed as El'Box is also a Polnish company... and you Rat never show who you are, as you hide behind a nickname. Strange.
Nice that you posted my webpages contents. Needless, as I made it and know what is written there.
Regarding SUBWAY benchmarks, these will be published soon.
We don't have anything to hide, neither in hardware specs nor in software drivers.
That's why we inform potential customers before they buy.
If you feel that you want to discuss more, please contact me directly.
You've got my email address.
Don't be shy.
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