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[Web] New screenshots!ANN.lu
Posted on 22-Nov-2002 05:37 GMT by ece346 comments
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Hyperion have released some new screenshots. Go on and have a look here...
New screenshots! : Comment 151 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 22-Nov-2002 13:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Peter Gordon):
Hello,
So Quark has some things special (according to my definition :) )
Bye
New screenshots! : Comment 152 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Radfoo on 22-Nov-2002 13:34 GMT
Maybe i'm crazy or somthing, but I quite like to the new screenshots.
New screenshots! : Comment 153 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Jedi on 22-Nov-2002 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Frodon):
> BTW lot of people judge others too quickly, and I think only this kind of
> people will have a bad image of me. And this is not my problem :)
>
> And don't worry I got a very good image with people I know in real life and
> also with lot of people online :)
Me, I love you my Joe ! :)
Et... vas-y FroFro ! vas-y ! :))
Bye,
Jedi.
New screenshots! : Comment 154 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 22-Nov-2002 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 153 (Jedi):
Salut Jedi :)
Merci merci :)
A+
New screenshots! : Comment 155 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 22-Nov-2002 13:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (catohagen):
Nice try :) This is ANN remember :))
New screenshots! : Comment 156 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Nov-2002 13:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (Anonymous):
Ok, the following is/was not meant to be a flame...
>>The mainpoint would be to FREE Hyperion's extremely talented developers
>>to do/port games, 3D library and applications to the platform.
>Right, but on the one hand Ben disrespects Rave3D lowlevel API
Still, The mainpoint would be to FREE Hyperion's extremely talented developers to do/port games, 3D library and applications to the platform (AOS platform, whatever that is).
"Ben disrespects Rave3D lowlevel API"
People tend to be proud of THEIR OWN work. So somebody got hurt enough to pull out from the deal?
I think one strong point of Warp3D is that it delivers somewhat common API for AmigaDE and AmigaOS. That way it is understandable that warp3d needs to be in AmigaOS. (ofcourse if AmigaDE never really takes off, it's a very moot point)
(I have the feeling that Rave3D developers (core people of MOS?) disrespects AmigaDE/intent/warp3D.)
>and on the other hand hyperion didn't want to make W3D for MOS as new OS4, so...
What the h*ll? Silly conspiracy theory?
btw. After following some e-mail discussions, I've learned that Hyperion developers DO NOT LIKE developing an OS as much as they do like developing games. They seem to genuinelly think that doing AmogaOS4 by themself was the only option to move the platform forward and to try to keep the market alive.
If the MOS+AmigaOSlegacy would have been the official AmigaOS, most likely W3D support would have been there.
Now that MOS is competing OS to AmigaOS4 (and as AOS4 is done by Hyperion), no one should expect Warp3D to appear natively for MOS.
Same way as no one should expect MorphOS running on a competing HW.
But as we KNOW miracles do happen.
"didn't want to make W3D for MOS as new OS4,"
My english sucks, but do you really hint that it really is the reason why "MOS as AOS" did not materialize?
(either way, it's pathetic, shame on them or shame on you)
btw. Is there somewhere a game developers review of Rave3D vs Warp3D?
New screenshots! : Comment 157 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (priest):
"He surely meant desktop CPUs. And even PPC one. And you surely knew that.
"
Uh-hu.
So this desktop Sun that I am using, powered by an UltraSPARC-IIi, doesn't exist, right?
Face it - Ben, like Bill "RTOS == Run Time OS" McEwen, spouts off about things without having the faintest clue what he is on about. And you fall for it every time.
New screenshots! : Comment 158 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Nov-2002 13:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 149 (Emmanuel Lesueur):
Untested feature is not a feature. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise.
That's the reason why I seek for full MorphOS featurelist, so that I would know what is being sold to me if I deside to buy MorphOS machine.
New screenshots! : Comment 159 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 14:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Anonymous):
>So the UltraSPARC series which has been around for 8 years and is fully
>64-bit isn't, according to yuo, a 64 bit CPU? Ho hum.
Don't forget the OLD Nintendo64 even. ;-)
New screenshots! : Comment 160 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Nov-2002 14:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (Anonymous):
"So this desktop Sun that I am using, powered by an UltraSPARC-IIi, doesn't exist, right?"
So you think that is a desktop CPU worth moving Amiga on to?
I think it's not.
Being in kindergarten is fun... WHEEEEE!!!! Ok, I've had enough, now I'm outa here.
New screenshots! : Comment 161 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 14:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (priest):
>People tend to be proud of THEIR OWN work. So somebody got hurt enough to pull out from the deal?
Rave3D - doing multitexturing since 1998 (1999?). :-)
New screenshots! : Comment 162 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 22-Nov-2002 14:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (priest):
You may as well jet out of here Priest, Ben "I'm important" H. has already stuck his foot in his mouth yet again. BTW, the pics of the screen grabs are BORING! I was expecting to see so much more eye candy to make me want to go buy HYPEOS4. All in all, I see why HYPErion is so anti-MOS, the pics make it all the more evident...
Dammy
New screenshots! : Comment 163 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 14:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (priest):
>So you think that is a desktop CPU worth moving Amiga on to?
Hey, did you know Articia S has support for MIPS CPUs? Go figure...
New screenshots! : Comment 164 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 22-Nov-2002 14:18 GMT
Phew, it took some time to reach the end of this thread.
I liked the screenshots.
And that's all I have to say... no, that and that it's a good thing to have Ben responding
on here as well. Wish he'd turn up sometime on amiga.org, where people don't flame
away as much as they do here.. The climate there is more suited for calm technical
questions and suggestions.
Oh well. He has probably stopped reading this thread 50+ posts ago...(I should have)
.
SlimJim
New screenshots! : Comment 165 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by MonkeyOS on 22-Nov-2002 14:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (dammy):
>You may as well jet out of here Priest, Ben "I'm important" H
Uh, ok Dammy"I'm a loser troll"
New screenshots! : Comment 166 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 14:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 164 (SlimJim):
>He has probably stopped reading this thread 50+ posts ago...
Comment, flame & run?
Well, I guess so - else he would not appear so "surprised" about the offer of
a free Pegasos & dinner as response on one of his provocative postings earlier.
%-)
New screenshots! : Comment 167 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 22-Nov-2002 14:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (priest):
How convenient!
New screenshots! : Comment 168 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 22-Nov-2002 14:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Frodon):
Ben is the head of Hyperion, not a developer, I think it's up to him on how he should spend is time? You think the world is black and white? Either you go to shows or stay home and develop... tsk!
New screenshots! : Comment 169 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 22-Nov-2002 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (amigammc):
Your day must certainly be busy as an Apologist not only for Amino/Amiga but HYPErion as well...
Dammy
New screenshots! : Comment 170 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Nov-2002 14:52 GMT
IDEA for AmigaOne guys: The earlybird systems are delivered with linuxPPC, which "does not an Amiga make". But please include AmigaOS4 crosscompiler beta package with it. Then those earlybird kits sound a little bit more worth considering.
New screenshots! : Comment 171 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 14:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
@Ben Hermans
'There is absolutely nothing special about the "Quark" kernel... A far more sensible choice would be to use tried and tested technology or develop Exec SG further.'
Just curious but doesn't the first statement discount the other? Or were you thinking of an alternative to Quark as a 'tried and tested' technology?
New screenshots! : Comment 172 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 22-Nov-2002 14:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (dammy):
Dammy, why is it so important to you to put down AmigaOS, and the AmigaONE at every available opportunity? Why can't you accept that they are solutions that some people want, and others, such as yourself, don't? What does it achieve to make snide remarks and be generally hostile and abusive all the time?
If you don't like those solutions, then don't use them.
New screenshots! : Comment 173 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 22-Nov-2002 14:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (dammy):
> Your day must certainly be busy as an Apologist not only for Amino
Amino? Who's apologising for a company that no longer exists?
:)
You're such a sad little man.
What was Bill Buck's former company called?
Does anyone refer to Thendic by that name?
(well probably some, but only if they're as sad as you)
Didn't RS work for someone else before?
Didn't Fleecy Moss work for someone else before? Oh yeah, it was... ;)
New screenshots! : Comment 174 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 15:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (priest):
"The mainpoint would be to FREE Hyperion's extremely talented developers to do/port games, 3D library and applications to the platform."
As opposed to the other way around? Let's face it, cooperation would help developers and the community gain a single, consistent solution. But, it's not a technical problem it's a political one.
Beyond that, it's not clear where OS4 will fit in relation to OS5. Will it be the foundation or will OS5 be a complete departure?
New screenshots! : Comment 175 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 22-Nov-2002 15:02 GMT
As a MorphOS supporter, I don't see why it would be such a good idea
to base OS4 on the Quark kernel.
A microkernel is a fairly small thing. If we assume that the OS4 team
is capable of writing an OS, they should certainly be able to write a
kernel. In fact, I think they've had enough time now that it's
believable that they've done this. Maybe they haven't - but in that
case, completing an OS until (Christmas? February?) is definitely not
believable, and aquiring a kernel wouldn't solve the problem.
So, when Ben asks for something that Quark has that ExecSG hasn't, I
think the most relevant answer is that it *today* hosts a system that
is able to run most 68k and PPC Amiga(tm) applications. Not much to do
with the kernel really - except the timeframe for what has to come
afterwards.
New screenshots! : Comment 176 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Nov-2002 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Jacek Piszczek):
Isn't this the problem MOS/Ambient was facing? :)
New screenshots! : Comment 177 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (catohagen):
And all discussion stoped :) doh... :)
New screenshots! : Comment 178 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 15:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 177 (Anonymous):
Hmm it was our proxy or something :)
New screenshots! : Comment 179 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 22-Nov-2002 15:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (dammy):
@dammy
I have said it before, and I say it again. Noone is taking you serious when
you keep up this childish name-calling antics. It's not a flame, just a friendly
observation:
Do you really WANT to be considered a non-sensical troll by all, dammy? No matter if you should make any good points, people just ignore you due to your
fixation with the Amiga name (you do realize you *appear* way more fixated to the Amiga name than any of the people you refer to as in a 'cult-like' context?
You bring it up far more than anyone else).
Unless you do want to be regarded like that, then that's Ok. Whatever rocks your
boat. Personally I would find your current way of carrying your cyber-self immensely boring and unproductive, if I were to do it that way - but I'm not you, so...
.
SlimJim
New screenshots! : Comment 180 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by ne_one on 22-Nov-2002 15:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
@Ben Hermans
[resizing via borders]
"A hotly debated issue amongst the OS 4 UI team. Some are in favor, others who shall go nameless (*cough* Olaf * cough*) are opposed to it. We'll see what happens."
The point moreover is that features can be disabled if someone doesn't want to make use of them, but a feature that doesn't exist can't be added by the user. Resizing windows using the borders is a convention on most operating systems.
We definitely want to make sure that we don't chop off our noses to spite our faces here: often the argument is to avoid something simply because it started out with another platform. For obvious reasons that's silly. The next generation of Workbench really needs to employ features that are commonplace in Windows/MacOS/Linux, both for users and developers.
New screenshots! : Comment 181 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 22-Nov-2002 15:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 180 (ne_one):
> The point moreover is that features can be disabled if someone doesn't want to
> make use of them, but a feature that doesn't exist can't be added by the user.
> Resizing windows using the borders is a convention on most operating systems.
http://www.aminet.net/util/boot/MSizer.readme
New screenshots! : Comment 182 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Nov-2002 15:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (anonymous):
ok... I'm back but not playing with the children of this garden. 8)
//
// DISCLAIMER
//
// This post migh cause extreme laughing for people who are not
// members of the "blind followers of the Amiga cult".
// I take no resonsibility of any dislocated jaw bones.
//
OS5... I think the vague/fuzzy OS5 roadmap can be found somewhere in amiga.com (where all the truth lies <- carefully now, do not laugh your arses off).
(or was it lies lie ... but anyway)
The roadmap/plan to OS5 is a line in the water.
I bet ONLY Fleecy knows the current plan (but there is a plan, even though no one else might know it <- carefully with that laughing, dislocation of jaw bones is painfull).
But then to the point: IIRC, (ok, I do have selective memory, stop laughing will ya) OS5 is planned to contain some parts of AmigaOS4.x and a AOS4.x sandbox. (sounds like MOS with A-box parts and A-box itself)
Time will tell ...
New screenshots! : Comment 183 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 22-Nov-2002 15:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 181 (Fabio Alemagna):
Sure but we want it to be feature in OS, not external patch :)
New screenshots! : Comment 184 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Nov-2002 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 182 (priest):
And re-use is the better term than contain.
re: "contain some parts of AmigaOS4.x"
New screenshots! : Comment 185 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Nov-2002 15:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (dammy):
They really should cut you off from the 'net...
New screenshots! : Comment 186 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 22-Nov-2002 15:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"Well, there are valid concerns about UI design.
Olaf has read tons of books about it, I'm sure he knows what he is
talking about. "
I've read tons of books about it too. Most of them boil down to
opinions, and none of the authors have ever seen an Amiga. Even so,
they offer some good ideas which are worth considering.
As for window resizing, a "new or old way" option would be best.
New screenshots! : Comment 187 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 22-Nov-2002 15:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 183 (miksuh):
> Sure but we want it to be feature in OS, not external patch :)
The real feature would be if the OS allowed to have the "window managing" thing indipendent from the rest. To some extents, this is made possible by the way input.device works, which allows for building programs like the one I gave the link for. That program is not a patch, it just uses the OS features. It's an old program, therefore it doesn't use commodity.library, but commodity library is there just for such things, and I'm sure also other programs exist that do the same thing as the one I gave the link for, which use commodity library.
Now, does it make any difference if this feature is provided trough an externam program, or it's hacked directly into intuition? I guess that the former way is the cleaner one, and to you it shouldn't matter anyway.
New screenshots! : Comment 188 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Nov-2002 15:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 182 (priest):
And this has what to do with my question? :)
New screenshots! : Comment 189 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Nov-2002 15:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 188 (Amon_Re):
Argh, sorry, my mistake :)
New screenshots! : Comment 190 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 22-Nov-2002 15:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 172 (Peter Gordon):
I've actually given HYPErion a few benefits of the doubt when I heard they did one thing right, Megellan. I was hoping to see some great screen grabs when I started reading this thread, only to find out boring pics. Then I read Ben "I'm important" H's BS on here, and I'm wondering when this downhill ride will end.
For awhile, I thought HYPErion was going to give MOS a good run for people's business. Now, looks like it's pretty pathetic attempt on HYPE's part to compete. Guess they have The Faithful Followers Of The Name Cult to buy their stuff, regardless. But I don't think they are going to sell more then 2K units.
Dammy
New screenshots! : Comment 191 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Nov-2002 15:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 186 (Don Cox):
If none of them have seen Amiga then they all most be just young kids or blind :)
New screenshots! : Comment 192 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 22-Nov-2002 15:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"Detlef Würkner did an outstanding job on the font-support working it all in diskfont.library, asl.library,
graphics.library etc.
Several notes however:
There are some patent issues involved (Apple patents).
http://www.freetype.org/patents.html "
Don't those patents only concern Truetype fonts?
Those of us who have Postscript printers will be mainly using Type 1
fonts.
New screenshots! : Comment 193 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Rudi Chiarito on 22-Nov-2002 15:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> There is at this point no general availability of 64 bit CPU's.
You only need to ask around.
MIPS64 processors have been around for a decade. The Nintendo64 and the PS2 have one, although the addressing of the latter is crippled. NEC has a wide range in the VR family. The VR41xx series powered all the MIPS-based WindowsCE PDAs/tablets and the Linux Agenda VR3, although writing system software for it is a royal pain, since it lacks ll/sc and most (if not all) models are little-endian only. The VR5xxx series is much nicer to deal with; in the high-end there are also the VR10000 and VR12000. QED/PMC-Sierra offers the RM5xxx, RM7xxx and RM9000 (a new dual-core version has been announced). IDT has the RC4xxx, RC5xxx and RC64xxx series. Toshiba has the TX49, TX79 and - soon - the TX99 families. Last year SiByte/Broadcom started shipping the BCM1250, which features two MIPS64 cores in the same chip (clocked from 600MHz to 1GHz); they have already announced the BCM1400, with four cores on one die. LSI has something, too; same probably for Philips. Not everything makes a good desktop CPU, but there are plenty of choices available. And among the others AMD recently got a MIPS64 license as well.
Hitachi and ST have - at last - released the SH-5 and they plan SH-6 for next year.
Fujitsu and Sun have had SPARC64 and UltraSparc processors available for the past 7-8 years.
There are of course other 64-bit processors, though they're either a) generally available but being "suppressed" (Alpha and HP-PA) or b) not generally available yet (x86-64, PowerPC64 and 64-bit Book-E architectures).
Rudi
New screenshots! : Comment 194 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by MonkeyOS on 22-Nov-2002 15:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 172 (Peter Gordon):
>Dammy, why is it so important to you to put down AmigaOS, and the AmigaONE at
>every available opportunity?
Because he is a c### sucking complete lowlife loser.
New screenshots! : Comment 195 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 22-Nov-2002 15:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (dammy):
"You may as well jet out of here Priest, Ben "I'm important" H. has already stuck his foot in his mouth yet
again. BTW, the pics of the screen grabs are BORING! I was expecting to see so much more eye candy to
make me want to go buy HYPEOS4. "
Are you seriously saying that you would buy a computer based on the
amount of eye-candy on the desktop/workbench/finder screen?
It's nice to have a good looking WB, and if Amigas are ever in shops
it might make people look, but it's hardly the most important reason
for selecting a computer.
New screenshots! : Comment 196 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Nov-2002 15:49 GMT
What is the best place to get absolutely fabulous Ambient screenshots?
New screenshots! : Comment 197 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by turtle on quaaludes on 22-Nov-2002 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 190 (dammy):
>But I don't think they are going to sell more then 2K units.
hahahahahahahaha 2k units you on crack amiga is back & you scared moron! mos will sell maybe 20 unit hahahahahaha
New screenshots! : Comment 198 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 22-Nov-2002 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 197 (turtle on quaaludes):
Ohh, dammys long lost brother enters the thread.
/Björn
New screenshots! : Comment 199 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by ne_one on 22-Nov-2002 15:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (z5):
@z5
"Although i really DO hope that you will make a gorgeous standard theme... Three names come to my mind: SimoAmi, Djnick, Mason :)"
Mohamed (DJSimo/SimoAmi) and myself have been lobbying Ben and Fleecy about contributing to both the Workbench and web interfaces.
To be fair, both are genuinely receptive to input but the reality is that OS4 has to go into production before resources can be prioritized elsewhere. Workbench desperately needs to be rewritten to make it more manageable in its present state and to allow it to evolve without the bevy of hacks and add-ons that we've accumulated over the years. Olaf definitely has his work cut out for him.
People need to look at these screenshots as a means of demonstrating *capabilities* first. These are sneak previews that were done by system developers not GUI designers -- we come next. Will the official release of OS4 be able to support the prototypes that you see on www.simoami.com? Probably not. But once the port is complete the interface is obviously in the priority queue. This is when things will start to get interesting!
I'm encouraged by what I see. Although I think the 'themes' aren't too appealing, the fundamental building blocks are starting to appear. It still baffles me after all these years why buttons are always arranged fully justified at the bottom of a window, why accelerator keys aren't standard and why windows can't be resized using borders (Olaf!) but we're getting there.
New screenshots! : Comment 200 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 22-Nov-2002 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 193 (Rudi Chiarito):
Hi Rudi,
No idea you came down to the gutter as well.
I'll be more precise.
I meant:
Generally available 64 bit processors
1) which are cheap enough to be deployed in a desktop (say 100-200 USD tops)
2) which do not dissipate so much heat that you need to take special precautions
3) which deliver performance on par with current high-end desktop offerings
4) which can run 32 bit code at no significant performance penalty (otherwise it's goodbye intent which is a 32 bit RISC architecture)
5) which have some kind of advanced SIMD engine (required for todays multimedia support really)
(And I would like to add 6) which can run OS 4.x code at no performance penalty but that would mean PPC).
I doubt there are many candidates on your list which meet all those requirements.
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