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[Web] New screenshots!ANN.lu
Posted on 22-Nov-2002 05:37 GMT by ece346 comments
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Hyperion have released some new screenshots. Go on and have a look here...
New screenshots! : Comment 301 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 15:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 297 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
I don't think my statement is any stupider than yours. No, I don't want Amiga to be a "me too" but I also have a realistic side. Would you care to explain the advantages of having a 64bit Amiga computer today? Would you be willing the pay the premium price when everyone here complains about the expensive AmigaOne already?
New screenshots! : Comment 302 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 15:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 296 (Fabio Alemagna):
You're the one adding junk and critizing other for doing so
New screenshots! : Comment 303 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Nov-2002 16:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 302 (amigammc):
> You're the one adding junk and critizing other for doing so
I'm the one who merely pointed out the lack of diplomacy of a man who's supposed to be doing PR for a company which would like to sell products to the people that man hasn't used diplomacy towards.
I explained my reasons, I don't think I have to add more. All this has become a farce, and it's not even fun anymore.
I wonder why Ben Hermans bothers to come down to this "gutter", at this point. Did anyone force him to? I guess not. He himself started spreading lies about MOS (like the fact that, in his opinion, it lacks of SMP support), and when proved wrong hasn't dared to reply anymore. He actively contributes to make this place become a "gutter", and then he complains about it? Come on, get real, this game has gone too far from ALL parties...
If the general attitude won't change, I'm afraid the ship will sink pretty soon: you really cannot entertain this kind of relationships with the people that are part of the BIG market. If they don't change attitute, and with "they" I mean _everyone_ involved in this market, they're condamned to be relegated to _this_ market forever, until it will collapse in a big "puff".
New screenshots! : Comment 304 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 23-Nov-2002 16:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 303 (Fabio Alemagna):
You are zeroing in on the use of the word "gutter" and feel personally offended
by it... You have got to be kidding right? To write so many posts about such a
pathetically minor issue (not to mention that "the gutter" in this context might
- and most probably was - to be meant highly 'tongue in cheek'), is a strange way to use your discussional energies. Drop it, already.
.
SlimJim
New screenshots! : Comment 305 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Rudi Chiarito on 23-Nov-2002 16:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 299 (amigammc):
> I don't know you, but I frankly don't see Eyetech buying 20 million 64 bit CPU's to make the price drop.
That is not what I said. I simply said that today a low-volume 32-bit implementation costs pretty much the same as a low-volume 64-bit implementation. Just like a high-volume 32-bit implementation costs pretty much the same as a high-volume 64-bit implementation.
Of course I am talking about high-performance processors. There is so much complexity in high-end processors (on-die caches, multiple execution units, branch prediction, etc.) that the extra logic for 64-bit addressing is no longer a complex task or expensive in terms of transistor count. The same has happened for MMUs: having one adds to the cost a mere fraction of what it used to do.
Buying or not buying millions of 64bit CPUs makes the same difference as buying or not buying millions of G4s (a relatively low-volume CPU at the moment).
A VR3 with 8MB of RAM costs $105 new. Even though it's at the low end, having a 64-bit processor (clocked at 66MHz) doesn't seem to be inflating the price to me. Softfield does NOT enjoy Palm's market share to drive down costs, either.
> On top of that OS4 would have had to be programmed for a 64 bit processor.
Most MIPS CE PDAs/tablets (Cassiopeia, Clio, some Mobilons) have a 64bit processor, yet they run in 32-bit mode all the time. Nothing needed to be changed. At the time CE didn't support anything else - CE .NET for MIPS64 has entered beta testing just a few months ago. The VR3 runs in 32-bit mode, too.
> Frankly I don't see any advantage in going 64bit *today*
I disagree there, but probably that's just me.
Anyway, soon you will see things changing, thanks to Hammer on one side and next generation "entertainment gateways" (PVRs and the like) on the other.
Rudi
New screenshots! : Comment 306 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Nov-2002 17:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 304 (SlimJim):
> You are zeroing in on the use of the word "gutter" and feel personally offended
> by it...
I don't feel personally offended by a statement that I know doesn't reflect the truth, I just feel what I wrote in my posts, that this is justa farce, played by people who don't have anything else to do that throwing stupidities, lies a d FUD at each other, and each party has its followers who blindly second whatever that party says, be it bullshit or not. The word "gutter" has its strong meaning, specially if you consider the way he used it, like "hey, pal, I'm sorry you had to come to this awfull place", with a tone of pity.
It's just too much, I cannot stand all this any longer. I'm fed up by this companies which run their businesses as if they were grocery stores, I'm fed up by companies which behave illegally and by people who blindly follow them, and I'm fed up with companies which let their PR persons behave in a way which, in a normal market made by normal people, goes _against_ that very same company.
Of course all this can work out well in the Amiga market because it's a rotted market, with rotted rules and probably a lot of rotted people, but it won't work for the rest of the world, and that's why I said that if things won't change the boat will soon sink, forever.
I don't know if you got it yet: the "gutter" word is not the real issue here, and regrding my discussional energies, let me tell you that I just responded to people who responded to me, just like I'm doing with you.
New screenshots! : Comment 307 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 23-Nov-2002 17:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 301 (amigammc):
Premium Price?
Given that the AmigaOne is already more expensive than any equivalent PPC home computer already on teh market, it is already a Premium Price.
Second, just because a CPU is 64-bit does not mean it is automatically way more expensive. Do some research. Have a look around at the multitude of existing 64-bit CPUs in use in low-cost products TODAY.
(Hint - the 64-bit PS2 is very cheap. 64-bit - based PDAs are selling at similar prices to other PDAs. etc).
I also note you are completely ignoring the link to the low-cost and powerful 64-bit UltraSPARC based desktop Sun which has been pointed out to you.
What advantage woudl there be in going 64-bit now? Well, more power, better positioned for the future (32-bit woudl have died out long ago had M$ not bullies Intel into propogating the x86 for their own purposes). It woudl save having to recode OS4 for 64-bit in a year or two.
Tell you what, let's see what happens if we drop back 17 years and ask "What advantage is there to releasing a 32-bit home computer NOW?"...
New screenshots! : Comment 308 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by iwillbereadyin3weeks on 23-Nov-2002 17:50 GMT
What a nice sitcom!
It's always nice to see how much serious and mature is Amiga
market and people behind it ;-)
It's even more FUNNY to see the "unofficial PR at work"
here!
You know, these guys payed and/or so fanatic to support
amiga inc no matter what they do, in any newsgroup/forum and
so on. They always do the same two things: insult evryone
but Amiga related people/ideas ;-)
Go on, go on...
it's very funny, even better than Friends!
New screenshots! : Comment 309 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 23-Nov-2002 19:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 306 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio Alemagna typed:
> It's just too much, I cannot stand all this any longer. I'm fed up by this
> companies which run their businesses as if they were grocery stores, I'm fed
> up by companies which behave illegally and by people who blindly follow them,
> and I'm fed up with companies which let their PR persons behave in a way
> which, in a normal market made by normal people, goes _against_ that very
> same company.
You are really losing your sense of perspective, I think. You should go for a
vacation, or take up jogging outdoors or something. I feel like Stimpy talking
to Ren in that Space Madness cartoon "you're talking crazy, pull yourself
together man, you're suffering from... space madness!!!"
I was getting ready to give you my standard spiel about this whole Genesi vs.
Amiga Inc. and Co. question, but then I remember you are part of AROS team, so
I'll stick it in my pocket for later.
> Of course all this can work out well in the Amiga market because it's a
> rotted market, with rotted rules and probably a lot of rotted people, but it
> won't work for the rest of the world, and that's why I said that if things
> won't change the boat will soon sink, forever.
Mary and Jesus, I am starting to think we need to put you on suicide watch or
something! ;) It won't be like this for much longer. The dynamics of the
situation are changing rapidly, and after December 7th and 8th they will have
changed a lot more. I don't know if we continue the decline or move towards
the light, but I believe the future will become clearer in the next few months,
and people will be able to make the decisions they should have made a long time
ago... so cheer up would you?!
New screenshots! : Comment 310 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 23-Nov-2002 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 273 (amigammc):
Oh come on Luca, is that the best you can do? If so, that's pretty pathetic. Why don't you spend more time making up new superduper coded puzzles for your Inner Circle ML readers so they can practice on their boing decoder ring?
BTW, what's Amino/Amiga's new office address? They did get a new office, like they said, didn't they?
Dammy
New screenshots! : Comment 311 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 20:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 294 (Vidar Langberget):
Ok, so you are saying that Hyperion and Eyetech should have had to wait until early 2003 before starting the project.
New screenshots! : Comment 312 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 20:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 298 (Martin Blom):
And how much better is that than an AmigaOne G4 800Mhz? What would the performance of OS4, a 32bit OS, be on that?
New screenshots! : Comment 313 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 20:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 304 (SlimJim):
That's exactly what I meant
New screenshots! : Comment 314 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Nov-2002 20:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 309 (Daniel Miller):
Daniel, don't get me wrong, if it seemed that I care for what is going to happen to the Amiga market, be assured that I don't. I mean, I look at it with a sense of disgust, and regret, maybe, that it had to go this down, but as far as I'm concerned, doesn't matter how it'll go in the future.
I don't know how to express myself better than this... Don't worry, I'm not going to commit suicide (I don't even understand how that could come to your mind - hope you were just exagerating), the boat will sink, not me: I'm not part of this boat, and haven't been for a long while already. I'm out of the Amiga market, I just watch it as an outsider, and comment on it.
My comments may sound rude, even look "desperate", maybe, but that's just how I feel when I look at all this... farce.
The one went crazy is not me... And don't get me started on this because I'm sure I'd make the rest of the amigans left hate me, for what I'd have to say.
I think I exposed with great amount of details what I think about the current Amiga situation... And, believe me, if _I_ say those things, it means the situation has really gone too deep in the dark.
I don't really care anymore... For what concerns me the amiga market can go wherever it wants, I just _feel_ that it won't go anywhere outside the place where it's relegated now.
New screenshots! : Comment 315 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 306 (Fabio Alemagna):
>Of course all this can work out well in the Amiga market because it's a rotted market
Sorry pal, but you're statement is much more offensive than Ben Herman's
New screenshots! : Comment 316 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 20:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 307 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
>I also note you are completely ignoring the link to the low-cost
Here goes your paranoia again, Keith, I wasn't ignoring, I didn't notice it until 2 minutes ago. And how powerful that would be running an OS written for another processor? C'mon tell me...
New screenshots! : Comment 317 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 20:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 309 (Daniel Miller):
>The dynamics of the situation are changing rapidly, and after December 7th and
>8th they will have changed a lot more. I don't know if we continue the decline
>or move towards the light, but I believe the future will become clearer in the
>next few months, and people will be able to make the decisions they should
>have made a long time ago... so cheer up would you?!
Scary! I agreed twice with Daniel in the same thread ;-)
New screenshots! : Comment 318 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 23-Nov-2002 20:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 311 (amigammc):
Luca, please stop deliberately pretending not to understand.
Has several people have already told you, there are plenty of EXISTING desktop-ready 64-bit CPUs around, and many of those CPUs are ALREADY in everyday use on dekstops, in PDAs, in consoles, etc.
64-bit computing already exists and has done for years.
It's a fact.
Deal with it.
Hey, you know AInc's claim that AOS shoudl be scalable across multiple types of requirement - mobile, desktop, servers etc?
Well if I showed you a 64-bit family which blows the G3 away, and is scalable from a low-power portable right the way to a high-performance 106-CPU system all capable of running exactly the same code, woudl you not be at least slightly intrigued? Or would you dismiss it because it is not The Chosen CPU? (BTW, the processor family to which I refer exists and is in use.)
New screenshots! : Comment 319 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 23-Nov-2002 20:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 318 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
>Luca, please stop deliberately pretending not to understand.
More paranoia from Mr. Blakemore
New screenshots! : Comment 320 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Nov-2002 20:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 315 (amigammc):
> Sorry pal, but you're statement is much more offensive than Ben Herman's
The truth hurts, it's always like that. But it's not my fault.
A market with companies which have blatantly illegal behaviours and still have people who follow them, is rotted. A marked with companies whose PR people come to the "gutters" just to throw garbage at other people is rotted.
It's not my fault if it's like that, and if you don't notice anything strange about this, it's not my fault either.
New screenshots! : Comment 321 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 23-Nov-2002 20:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 316 (amigammc):
Didn't notice until 2 minutes ago a post which was directly after one to whch you replied hours ago? And before others to which you already replied?
As you wish.
However, please explain why it is necessary to pretend that it is not possible to code nativly for a CPU whose family has been around (and 64-bit) for 8 YEARS? Are you saying Hyperion are THAT slow at coding?!
Ho hum, Luca.
New screenshots! : Comment 322 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 23-Nov-2002 20:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 319 (amigammc):
Luca, you keep insisting that if AOS4 were to have been written for any other CPU, then it woudl still have had to be written as a 32-bit PPC OS.
Please can you explain why you believe this?
You have heard of compilers, right?
you do know that these compilers can target other platforms, and even *gasp* 64-bit CPUs, right?
So why do you keep coming up with the red herring of othe5 CPUs having to emulate AOS4 if it had been written for them?
please do explain, and try not to lapse into your usual style of attack, please.
New screenshots! : Comment 323 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 23-Nov-2002 20:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 319 (amigammc):
BTW Luca, I notice you are refusing to answer any questions.
I wonder why that might be?
Don't tell me, you didn't read them, even though they were there for all to see in a post to which you have replied?
Come on Luca, why are you refusing to answer simple straight-forward questions?
no-one is trying to attack you or trap you or trick you. Just asking genuine questions in what is called "a discussion".
Well?
New screenshots! : Comment 324 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 23-Nov-2002 21:06 GMT
Lol, the worst of people really comes out in the open in here.
/Björn
New screenshots! : Comment 325 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 23-Nov-2002 21:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 309 (Daniel Miller):
>I don't know if we continue the decline or move towards
>the light, but I believe the future will become clearer in the next few months,
People have been saying this for years. The endless announcements have nothing new in them any more.
What grates me, is that some of the announcements by various parties have been COMPLETE U-TURNS. And, the followers of these various parties have continued following them and IGNORED the complete U-turns. I have even seen posts by followers that denied the situation before the U-turn ever existed. This is uncannilily like an Orwell book.
New screenshots! : Comment 326 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by turinturumbar on 23-Nov-2002 23:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 325 (smithy):
Hi Smithy!
I must say that I agree with your oppinion. Too many U-TURNS and as you said there is some people who doesn't realize that.
Now let me explain why I have curently chosed Morphos/Pegasos as my next generation Amiga (even considering that they have as the others their own load of lies, arrogance, etc...). They are (in my oppinion) the only consistent ones over the years. I still remember when something like the PowerPC accelerator cards were just a dream, they did it; now consider that even after the demise of ESCOM when it was already stated that POWERPC was going to be the CPU used for the new Amigas, they tried to attemp to create the A-BOX. What happened in the Gateway era?
More U-turns (QNX,Linux) and then they released the first version of Morphos. What about Amiga.INC U-turns? there was even a moment when they said that OS4.0 whas not going to happen, wouldn't you call that a U-TURN?
At least they have been consistent all this years even when there was not a clear future for the Amiga.
I'm not agains Hyperion, and if they sucess I will be happy for them (although I'd prefer to see OS4.0 running in all kind of POP motherboards) but I think that Morphos team deserve a change for the reasons explained before.
Regards.
New screenshots! : Comment 327 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Blom on 23-Nov-2002 23:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 312 (amigammc):
> And how much better is that than an AmigaOne G4 800Mhz?
> What would the performance of OS4, a 32bit OS, be on that?
Not that this has anything to do with the question I replied to, but I doubt
there would be any significant difference. The G4 might even come out on top
for some applications that can use Altivec (since Sun's vector instructions
only handle integer data, not floating point -- what a pity!).
The real advantage for the UltraSPARC is that it's 64 bit.
(As a side note, I recently implemented a couple of complex (as in 1+1i)
interpolation routines in assembly, using the UltraSPARC FPU and SSE2 on the
Pentium 4. The SPARC version took about 55 cycles/iteration, while the P4/SSE
version required around 140, IIRC. Quite a difference, but on the other hand,
the P4 can be clocked much higher; I think the fastest UltraSPARC is clocked
only slightly above 1 GHz.)
New screenshots! : Comment 328 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 24-Nov-2002 02:23 GMT
This whole ####ing thread was so ####ing lame.
People on both sides dissing the other side.
People on both sides misquoting and twisting what the other side has said in the past. People using their lack of knowledge to flame the other side (yes, and I will include Ben in this, because TBH he hasn't ever shown a lot of technical computer knowledge - he should stick to what he knows, and preferably to boards like amiga.org, not places where he gets riled and posts something silly) is really lame.
For what it is worth, the screenshots looked fine to me. Not brilliant, but at least there are plenty of them to see, unlike the 3 or 4 fancy backdrop MorphOS screenshots I have seen, which in my opinion weren't as good. However they need to select a professional final default shipping look - one with more subtle pixmaps and the like. I liked the gradiented titlebars. I would have liked for a better font to be used, with anti-aliasing - perhaps with a nice drop shadow for icons, etc... all optional and configurable - one of the great things about AmigaOS.
There are no general 64-bit processors in mass production on the market for anyone to use to make a standard desktop motherboard. Sure, that broadcom chip looks really nice, and next year it could be an option when AGP8x HT bridges are available on the market, but for this year they are not, so it is a non-runner. As for the SPARC, it is an expensive processor unless you want a weakened version. It is a good chip, a quirky architecture. Yeah, there are desktop systems available, but these aren't home desktop systems, these are more workstations or servers in a desktop case. The specs don't impress me much for a desktop system. Anyway, 64-bit AmigaOS systems don't make sense right *now*. They will when Athlon 64 and the IBM970 are available on the mass market.
Honestly, I wish both MorphOS and AmigaOS4 the best of luck. Shame that people have turned it into a new Atari vs. Amiga war in their heads, when there should be nothing of the sort. I won't buy either until they are available for a decent up-to-date hardware platform that will last me at least 3 years into the future.
Honestly, I don't know why I read this thread, it was one of the lowest things I have seen this year on ANN. Sickening.
Everybody grow up.
New screenshots! : Comment 329 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 24-Nov-2002 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 298 (Martin Blom):
Fact, AOS should have a 64 bit CPU. But, did you see the _crazy_ prices for the Sun Blade @650MHz? $1995 and $3395. How about the Sun Blade 2000? Base model @900 MHz is $7595. Wild and kooky! AMD is gonna wipe the floor on these guys.
Amiga! So near, and yet so far!
New screenshots! : Comment 330 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by David Plunkett on 24-Nov-2002 10:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 328 (Graham):
I never understood this MorphOS-Amiga antipathy until I read your comments. Now it is clear. In the golden years, Amiga users had a rival group on whom to pour scorn, and to be scorned by: Atari.
Skip forward a decade and once again we have two simiarly constituted machines coming out at around the same time. And once again, we will be able to have the intense rivalries of the past. Ahh, the golden years return. ;0)
New screenshots! : Comment 331 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 24-Nov-2002 10:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 330 (David Plunkett):
Yes, that stupid 520 and 1040, and the "when the game was over" Falcon TT, splintered the market and STOLE our thunder. We both went under in the end. But, the eloquent and still advanced AOS, is on a come back path. It's THAT good.
Amiga! No swap file crap, please, Hyperion.
New screenshots! : Comment 332 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 24-Nov-2002 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 320 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio Alegmagna typed:
> A market with companies which have blatantly illegal behaviours and still
> have people who follow them, is rotted. A marked with companies whose PR
> people come to the "gutters" just to throw garbage at other people is rotted.
With the PR stuff I guess you refer to Ben, as for the illegal behaviors...
Despite the accusations that were publicly made against MorphOS, bPlan, and
Thendic-France (now Genesi) I reached the conclusion that what they have done
and are doing is legal and, more relevantly, honest. They are selling their
own work. If that work owes something to the great Amiga platform of years ago
that is fine, but it doesn't change that it is their labor and love that are
bringing it off in this form. I encourage you and anyone else to make this
personal judgement as well.
New screenshots! : Comment 333 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Blom on 24-Nov-2002 12:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 329 (Atheist2):
Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure the prices will be lowered once there is any real competition from AMD or Intel in this market segment. Currently, there simply is none, and that obviously shows in the pricing of the rest of the systems.
You also have to remember that the price includes the OS. Who knows how much the 64 bit workstation version of Windows is going to cost ...
New screenshots! : Comment 334 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 24-Nov-2002 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 332 (Daniel Miller):
> With the PR stuff I guess you refer to Ben, as for the illegal behaviors...
... I was referring to Elbox :)
New screenshots! : Comment 335 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Vidar Langberget on 24-Nov-2002 13:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 311 (amigammc):
Of course not.. If you had been following the hardware market, you would know that software and hardware developers have had Hammer systems for more than a year. New development boxes running at 1.8 GHz were just sent out.
AMD would probably be VERY friendly towards a x86-64 port of AmigaOS. Sadly this seems unlikely to happen as long as Hyperion is in charge of AmigaOS development. Now they are aiming for maybe 10,000 users of AmigaOS 4. I'd be willing to bet a proper x86(-64) port would get a lot more users. I guess we'll see when OS5 comes along in a few years.
New screenshots! : Comment 336 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 24-Nov-2002 21:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Anonymous):
>So the UltraSPARC series which has been around for 8 years and is fully 64->bit isn't, according to yuo, a 64 bit CPU? Ho hum.
"UltraSPARC" is hardly a Pentium class product in terms of market segment.
Mass marketed 64bit desktop processors is about +6 month away i.e.
1. IBM's PPC 970 release is somewhere in H2 2003(potential mass-market desktop chip in POV).
2. AMD's Clawhammer (a.k.a. Athlon 64???) release is somewhere in 2003(linked with the release of MS’s Windows XP X86-64bit release. (definitely mass market desktop chip release in POV, which may rival the release of MS’s Windows 95/ Intel Pentium Classic bandwagon).
New screenshots! : Comment 337 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 24-Nov-2002 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 204 (redfox):
>Amiga OS4/OS5 running on an UltraSPARC ...
>That would be awesome.
That would be "expensive" relative to mainstream desktop HW platforms.
New screenshots! : Comment 338 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 24-Nov-2002 22:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 284 (Rudi Chiarito):
> On the other hand, if you don't see more 64-bit processors on the desktop as
> you would expect based on the above, it's exactly "thanks" to Intel and AMD,
+P6 cores have support for "36bit page size extensions".
> once more: the vast majority of desktop systems uses 32-bit software and so > far there haven't been compelling reasons to go beyond that.
What about Digital Home Video recording (potential killer app after Mp3 for home desktop markets in POV)? Equipping a X86-PC with a "Video In" is relatively cheap these days.
> limits haven't been hit or the workarounds for them haven't been too
> annoying (e.g. >current filesystems and partitioning schemes).
The desktop trends is mostly dictated by MS's Windows by the most part.
> Except for volume of sales, there's no practical reason why a 64-bit CPU or
> motherboard for it wouldn't cost pretty much the same as a 32-bit
> counterpart.
Several reasons why early 64bit CPUs has failed to take over the desktop market
1. Desktop computing distribution channels,
2. Economic of scale,
3. Desktop user's mind set,
4. The important X86 ISA legacy compatibility for desktop applications and entertainment titles.
5. The second mainstream desktop OS (i.e. MacOS) still operates fine on “32bit” PPC CPUs.
6. The 2nd important PPC ISA legacy compatibility for desktop applications and entertainment titles(for MacOS).
New screenshots! : Comment 339 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 24-Nov-2002 22:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 299 (amigammc):
> The Xbox is well better than the PS2 and it uses a mere Pentium III.
Mostly thanks to nVidia's Direct 8.x Class GPU technology.
New screenshots! : Comment 340 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 24-Nov-2002 23:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 318 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
>Has several people have already told you, there are plenty of EXISTING >desktop-ready 64-bit CPUs around, and many of those CPUs are ALREADY in >everyday use on dekstops, in PDAs, in consoles, etc.
Untrue in regards to "desktops" and "plentiful". I don't recall playing UT2003 on the "current desktops" and "plentiful" on 64bit CPU HW. I don't recall buying a MIPS based "PC white box" from my local computer shop (e.g. a corner store).
>64-bit computing already exists and has done for years.
I don't recall a 64bit system has penetrated the desktop home/office markets with the ability to do the following;
1. Widely available "good" word processor.
2. Widely available entertainment titles.
3. Widely available end user support.
4. Widely available replacement parts.
5. Widely available mainstream hobbyist software (i.e. paint packages, low cost DTP, music content creation packages, animation content creation packages, low cost vectoring drawing packages).
6. Widely available "how to use" guides/teaching programs.
7. Widely available PC style "white box" format.
New screenshots! : Comment 341 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 25-Nov-2002 14:21 GMT
EVERYONE
SHOULD
* STAND BACK *
AND JUST WAIT FOR SOMETHING TO BE RELEASED.
Those endless fights are USELESS, and will just disgust people
from the community, or prevent them from really contributing to it.
Just wait for the final products and make up your mind !
Why be so unfriendly ? Can't you just exchange opinions without
agressivity ? Why discuss things which you can't discuss (regarding
projects under development).
We are
ALL
part of the same community.
We
ALL
want the same thing.
JUST *RELAX*
OPTIMISM and no HATRED please !!
There are so many interesting things coming.... Just be patient !
New screenshots! : Comment 342 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 25-Nov-2002 18:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 340 (hammer):
"I don't recall a 64bit system has penetrated the desktop home/office markets with the ability to do the following;
1. Widely available "good" word processor.
OpenOffice / starOfgfice. Next?
2. Widely available entertainment titles.
Define what you mean - oh, and before you get too carried away, name them all from a PPC perspective.
3. Widely available end user support.
this is definitly widely available from all suppliers. Next?
4. Widely available replacement parts.
Sun's desktop equipment is all based on industry-standard low-cost easily-obtainable parts. Next?
5. Widely available mainstream hobbyist software (i.e. paint packages, low cost DTP, music content creation packages, animation content creation packages, low cost vectoring drawing packages).
They exist. Next?
6. Widely available "how to use" guides/teaching programs.
They already exist. Visit any good computer bookshop, for example.
BTW how many existed for MacOS before it came out? For AmigaOs before it came out? Hmmm? Or is that somehow different? You seriously expect to find "howto" books for something that doesn't bloody exist (namely AOS4)? LOL!
7. Widely available PC style "white box" format.
Oh for goodness sake. So there are no 64-bit dekstop systems around because YOU want one in a boring white PC case, right? Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
Fact - 64-bit desktop systems already exist.
you can claim they don't because there are none that you can se in a white PC box, but that's just your blinkered viewpoint.
New screenshots! : Comment 343 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 25-Nov-2002 21:08 GMT
Nice theme(s) drafted at amiga.org:
http://amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=4389&forum=1&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0
New screenshots! : Comment 344 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 03:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 323 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
Keith,
I grew tired of having a conversation with you, you're paranoic behavior is no fun. You are like another person I dislike very much, both of you think that there's only one cause for each action. I am not against 64bit processor, as a matter of fact I hope OS5 will be a 64bit OS running on more than just one processor family. I just believe this is not the right time for a million reasons I already explained and you purposefully (to use your own tactics) ignored.
New screenshots! : Comment 345 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Andrew on 26-Nov-2002 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 305 (Rudi Chiarito):
Whilst many people have talked about 64 Bit processors being available today that can run desktop systems, and even desktop systems, I would have to question the future of using most of those technologys. I mean the Alpha is a great chip if it hadn't been sat on it would be a serious contender.
Equally the MIPS chips and others, all of them exist but are they feasible in the long term? You don't want to have to re-write the OS everytime you need a performance boost.
Would sun happily allow people to use their SPARC chips to create a competing OS, I think not.
There just isn't any long term feasibility in 64 bit chips right now.
New screenshots! : Comment 346 of 346ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Nov-2002 17:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 345 (Andrew):
" Would sun happily allow people to use their SPARC chips to create a competing OS, I think not. "
Then think again.
Here's a clue for you - Sun do not own exclusive rights to the SPARC architecture. So they can not stop anyone from building SPARC-based equipment. Hint - http://www.sparc.org - "This organization of dedicated members supports SPARC International and it's purpose of being: "An Open Standards consortium providing the fruit of fair competition in the SPARC arena"."
Does THAT sound like "Sun would not let anyone build a competing OS"? No.
Do some research before posting, it might help.
However, I really do not believe for one second that Sun would refuse to sell UltyraSPARCs to anyone designing and building a nerw desktop home computer. Have a think about Sun's primary markets, and then ask yourself if Sun would really be scared about competition from someone in an area in which Sun do not activly sell in the first place?
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