19-Apr-2024 20:43 GMT.		 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 189 items in your selection (but only 89 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 189]
[News] Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents?ANN.lu
Posted on 24-Nov-2002 12:38 GMT by Alkis Tsapanidis (Edited on 2002-11-24 13:51:36 GMT by Christian Kemp)189 comments
View flat
View list
Alkis Tsapanidis points out a comment posted by Bill Buck and Raquel Velasco in the Genesi on /. thread. Thendic (and all affiliated companies) hold a valid worldwide right and license to Amiga DE, the "Amiga" patents, and all associated copyrights and trademarks. This Agreement was signed between ourselves and Bill McEwen on 10 November 2000. The Agreement remains in effect today.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 101 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 25-Nov-2002 06:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Anonymous):
Well.. It all depends. Some people are not blind to real facts of life.
I'm not (for example) looking for nametag, I'm looking for new computer that I may use and even perhaps enjoy using (unlike this windowse).
You have to remeber that when Original Amiga arrived it was not the name that was good, it was he product. Ok, I had been using C64 before so I knew Commodore but I purchased my Amiga cause I wanted machine...
What will in the end matter is when (and what price) systems are available, how soon decent stability of OS has been reached and how well it runs programs. At the beginning being able to run old programs is going to be essential as there are not enough Native programs. At later date availability and quality counts too... And number of active SW/HW developing users.
In the end.. name may have some value but it does not help much if product is dud. And for me.. Waiting 18 months of my Aone/os4 to appear is getting a bit too long.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 102 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Nov-2002 07:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Steve):
"And yes Intuition (not Ambient, Ambient is just the desktop not the GUI) is fully skinnable ..."
Intuition? Even with a license to use trademarks i dont think its ok to name an Intuition replacement Intuition.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 103 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Andrea Maniero on 25-Nov-2002 08:49 GMT
To those who ask themselves why this `old' news was brought to the public attention just now: Bill's statement was the answer to comment 9 in the Genesi on /. thread... And someone considered his posting to be worth a news item. Plain simple.
Kind regards,
Andrea
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 104 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 25-Nov-2002 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Andrea Maniero):
Yes. This kinda follows ANN's old concept of finding stuff buried deep within the newsgroups, and featuring it on the main page.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 105 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Nov-2002 09:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Andrea Maniero):
I dont think anyone wonders _how_ this got to be a news item, just that it isnt news. Im pretty sure this was covered when it actually happened.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 106 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 25-Nov-2002 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Anonymous):
Quote from the page title: "ANN.lu - Daily news, rumours and comments". ANN is not just about the news, but also about rumours and discussion of news and rumours.
This place would be boring if all we did was cover official press releases.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 107 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 25-Nov-2002 09:55 GMT
ann.lu is hilarious. In fact the whole amiga scene is all drama. Elbox, McEwen, Buck, and many more insane elements...
If I actually used HW&SW supported by the likes of these people for my work I probably wouldn't find it as amusing. However typing this on my new TiPB I assure you it is VERY funny ;-)
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 108 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Nov-2002 11:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Anonymous):
Intuition is not a trademark AFAIK, but even if it is you CAN name it
intuition for compatability, that's what the law says afaik.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 109 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 25-Nov-2002 12:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Everyone is a lawyer these days ...
First Takis, now Alkis.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 110 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Nov-2002 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
And everyone has enough experience in a court room these days.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 111 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Nov-2002 12:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben, I said AFAIK.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 112 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Nov-2002 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
BTW, is the name "intuition" a trademark? If yes what's it's number?
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 113 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Takis on 25-Nov-2002 12:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
@ Ben
Since we are at it...
About your previous post on Ann.lu, regarding my paper which you bragged that it
is crap. Am I to understand that you actually had access *and* read a proprietary
document which had SLAPPED all over with "Private & Confidential" warnings on
each and every page???
Tsk tsk tsk tsk
Do you want me to explain to you the legal implications of your not so bright
actions? Do it, but at least have the right mind not to post about it; then again
according to most people you are not even registered as a solicitor so this would
perhaps help explain the utter ignorance that characterises your actions.
Good thing that this post was brought to my attention.
Takis
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 114 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Teemu Suikki on 25-Nov-2002 13:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
There's a search thingy for US patents and trademarks, in
http://www.uspto.gov/
"Amiga" and "Workbench" are trademarks of Amiga Inc.
"Intuition" is not, closest match seems to be this:
IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer software for world wide web graphics
(APPLICANT) Thinking Skin CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 604 Panoramic Way Berkeley CALIFORNIA 94704
There are other matches as well, but those are not related to computer
industry.
Interestingly, AmigaDE or AmigaOS are not trademarks. However, they
contain the trademarked "Amiga" so i guess it doesn't matter.
This covers only US patents though, I don't know about EU.
--
Teemu
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 115 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Nov-2002 13:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> Everyone is a lawyer these days ...
Ben, no matter how much lawyers would like to think so, the law is not their exclusive property. They don't make it, and they sure as hell don't own it.
Law has been discussed here many times by regular folk, and not only MorphOS enthusiasts like you listed, but in fact even in this thread the legal discussion was started by someone questioning legal details of said product.
And while that may be a sad reflection of the current state of affairs here in Amiga land - we have more legalese to discuss then actual products, and that is something you and your partners are more than willing to encourage when it suits your agenda - it is still something people are free to do.
You are encouraged offer your expert opinion to help the discussion, but my wish is that you leave the underhand remarks out of it.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 116 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 25-Nov-2002 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (JoannaK):
>I'm not (for example) looking for nametag, I'm looking for new computer that I
>may use and even perhaps enjoy using (unlike this windowse).
You, and how many others? The massmarket is made more people like the "others" than people like you (and me)
>You have to remeber that when Original Amiga arrived it was not the name
>that was good
When the Amiga arrived the world was different, much different. Computers were still something that few people owned and the Amiga was unique featurewise and pricewise to what the market had to offer. Today AmigaOne and Pegasos don't have anything to offers if compared to what's out there (yet).
>And for me.. Waiting 18 months of my Aone/os4 to appear is getting a
>bit too long.
Ah, you wanted a computer and an Operating System made in 5 minutes. You're right, all systems are made in less than a day of work.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 117 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 25-Nov-2002 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
ROTFL!! Good Job, you're smart
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 118 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Nov-2002 16:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (amigammc):
Tsss tsss tsss
Luca, please.
Alkis is a nice guy and I know you are one too.
You are both overdoing your supporter jobs.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 119 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Velcro on 25-Nov-2002 17:09 GMT
FUD FUD FUD FUD......KBOOOMMM
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 120 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by It's MEEEE!!!! on 25-Nov-2002 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Hope I live to see you making a mistake.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 121 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Steve on 25-Nov-2002 18:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (It's MEEEE!!!!):
@It's MEEEE
Don't worry you don't have to wait, he has already made a lot of
mistakes :)
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 122 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Nov-2002 18:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben, I don't want to start a flamewar with you but could you please stop doing such statements ?
It really looks that you want to settle a war here.
I could understand that you argue with Alkis but how com that you attack Thendic lawyer now ? Are you really looking for troubles ?
Qui seme le vent recolte la tempete ...
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 123 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Phill on 25-Nov-2002 21:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
you can call it intuition.library
however you have to be careful to make sure that everyone knows it's not really intuition.
basically you would need to have something like this on a splash screen ( an about box is not enough ).
"Intuition is a trademark of Amiga Inc.
This product does is not endorsed by Amiga Inc."
etc etc
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 124 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 25-Nov-2002 22:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Takis):
Dear Takis, you are apparently unaware of the fact that I am in fact under NDA with Thendic.
It was a pleasure reading your material.
If time permits, I will send you some remarks about your document.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 125 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 25-Nov-2002 23:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Oh bull! You say now the document was such a pleasure but before you said it
was a bunch of "jibberish." You must have some well-developed facial muscles
because you talk out of both sides of your mouth so much!
As for "jibberish" a lot of stuff looks like jibberish when one doesn't
understand it!
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 126 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 00:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Daniel Miller):
I thought you wanted to be nice and hug everybody ;-)
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 127 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 26-Nov-2002 04:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (amigammc):
Wrong person AmigaMMC. ;-)
Dammy
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 128 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Jedi on 26-Nov-2002 06:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (Christophe Decanini):
"Qui seme le vent recolte la tempete ..."
Bien dit Christophe :)
Jedi.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 129 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 26-Nov-2002 09:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (Christophe Decanini):
I have no interest in arguing with Alkis whom I consider to be a nice guy and a fine Hyperion beta-tester.
Frankly Christophe, you are stepping out of your impartial role here to publically defend Takis.
I'm sure he can take care of himself.
It is not your role as a moderator here to defend Thendic employees.
All I did was criticise the quality of the document he produced and I stand by that.
And no, I'm not "afraid" of him in any way, shape or form as I'm not doing anything legally reprehensible criticising the quality of his legal work.
Especially not after reading that document.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 130 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 26-Nov-2002 09:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Teemu Suikki):
US law does not require trademarks to be registered before they can be protected.
Mere usage is sufficient.
Which is why Intuition is a valid US Amiga trademark even if it was not registered.
Unlike EU law.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 131 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 26-Nov-2002 10:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Frankly Christophe, you are stepping out of your impartial role here to
>publically defend Takis.
Just because Christophe is a moderator here on ANN, doesn't mean he can't submit comments, does it now?
Now if he would censor the articles, that would be unacceptable. Like what happened in the past.
Ben, you're not looking very professional, as always, patronizing a(n apparant) partner in public.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 132 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Fred on 26-Nov-2002 10:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (darklite):
"you're not looking very professional, as always, patronizing a(n apparant) partner in public."
Hmmm, maybe I missed something darklite? I had a quick read through each comment Ben posted in this thread and couldn't see anything unprofessional or patronizing.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 133 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Takis on 26-Nov-2002 12:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben,
I am really not interested in having a public discussion about the merits of our opinons which clearly fundamentaly clash. I am really occupied with far more important things than flame wars as I assume you are too.
I am however most interested in knowing your opinion and explaining to you why the confidential notice stands, despite the, as you correctly pointed out, NDA which you have signed with Thendic-France. Please feel free to do so at takis@thendic-france.com
Regards,
Takis
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 134 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 13:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
And let me allow to add, take an intermediate business law course in the US and you will know why Microsoft had it with the name "Windows", which they were not allowed to trademark at the beginning
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 135 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 13:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (dammy):
Oops! Sorry Randy.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 136 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Nov-2002 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"I have no interest in arguing with Alkis whom I consider to be a nice guy and a fine Hyperion beta-tester."
Well if I was him I would be ashamed to have been treated like your did to him.
"Frankly Christophe, you are stepping out of your impartial role here to publically defend Takis."
I'am here to prevent what you call the gutter. Unfortunately you are someone creating this situation with such posts.
Speaking about you have been stepping out many times with unproven allegations about people qualification, technical points you don't understand, and accusation of stolen code.
"I'm sure he can take care of himself."
I'am also sure he would take care of yourself if you continue this way.
"It is not your role as a moderator here to defend Thendic employees."
I defend anyone that would be insulted. I never defended Thendic employes when you bashed them before (and still do). But here, insulting Thendic lawyer in public shows clearly your intentions.
"All I did was criticise the quality of the document he produced and I stand by that."
So, say it clearly instead of doing such a post.
"And no, I'm not "afraid" of him in any way, shape or form as I'm not doing anything legally reprehensible criticising the quality of his legal work.
Especially not after reading that document."
Go ahead, send some mud again.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 137 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Nov-2002 14:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (darklite):
"Just because Christophe is a moderator here on ANN, doesn't mean he can't submit comments, does it now? "
Exactely,
I have to say that I have been an ANN user before offering my help to Christian.
"Now if he would censor the articles, that would be unacceptable. Like what happened in the past. "
I never did censor anything. Maybe I tried to limit provocative stuff but I do the same moderation job on OS4, MorphOS, Amithlon, whatever posts.
I censor stupidity, that's why I deleted and recreated a whole thread last week.
"Ben, you're not looking very professional, as always, patronizing a(n apparant) partner in public."
That is exactely what I criticize. How can we ask users here to be civilized when one major actor in the Amiga communauty like Ben is doing such things.
Such important actors should post with a lot of professionalism like for example Francis Charig did.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 138 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 14:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Christophe Decanini):
>How can we ask users here to be civilized when one major actor in the Amiga
>communauty like Ben is doing such things.
Christophe, please. Let's say two major actors ok? Bill Buck has posted buckets of BS on this website from personal attacks to posting of private mails.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 139 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Nov-2002 15:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (amigammc):
Luca,
Yes Bill DID and I already answered him the same way I do here for Ben.
Bill stopped to act this way and I wish Ben would go the same way.
Unfortunately it looks it is getting worse lately.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 140 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 26-Nov-2002 16:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"Frankly Christophe, you are stepping out of your impartial role here to publically defend Takis."
Agreed. I find it amusing to see Cristophe saying that Mike Bouma is biased when he *himself* is so obviously pro-bPlan/Morphos/Therndic/Genesi(whatever...:-/
With that said people in general should pipe down a little.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 141 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 26-Nov-2002 16:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Christophe Decanini):
"Bill stopped to act this way and I wish Ben would go the same way."
Really? I've seen quite a few "official" news items on ANN that could be "mistaken" for misinformation lately...
"Unfortunately it looks it is getting worse lately."
Couldn't agree with you more on that though. Looks like the closer this so called "community" gets to new HW/SW, the more FUD and crap is flung in all directions.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 142 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Nov-2002 16:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Lennart Fridén):
Open your eyes. Mike had at least the courage to say he his biased.
He is an insider at AmigaINC.
I'am far from being that much involved in Thendic / Bplan.
I do not promote any solution over the other. I run MorphOS and I like it. I wish I could have an OS4 beta and run it too.
And for your records, I'am so against Amiga, Hyperion that I spent a fortune in a business that sold thousands of Amiga products and still do (last product is Hyperion Quake2).
You never posted like that when I had arguments with Bill Buck. It makes sense as you are Samface buddy.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 143 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 26-Nov-2002 16:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 141 (Lennart Fridén):
The current fashion seems to be repost any interesting statements from R&B as news items, slag off Mike Bouma and minimise the signal at the expense of noise.
If I thought Mike had a thin skin I would probably be far more sarcastic about those that consistently throw mud at him in an attempt to discredit his opinions and commentary. Sure, he wrote one article that had an Amiga Inc. bias in ONE paragraph. Burn him! Burn him at the stake!
At times like this I like to go look at the Fudbuster again and read the bit about people who have a business interest in FUD and chaos...
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 144 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 26-Nov-2002 16:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (Christophe Decanini):
"I do not promote any solution over the other"
No, you just promote "news" items and tell everyone who is trolling in "MorphOS" news items that they shouldn't be there and when it comes to the other way around you rarely raise a murmer at the MOS trolls in "AOS" news items.
You ARE biased Christophe, no need to be ashamed about it.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 145 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Nov-2002 16:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 141 (Lennart Fridén):
Both Ben and Bill are free to publish information here.
It may be misleading and everyone has to think twice about reading anything from any side.
What I criticize lately is how Ben has done personnal attacks, or points on MorphOS people, OS technical feature he had no idea off, etc...
I thought the same thing about Daniel Miller/ Bill episode.
I had arguments with Bill on some of his older posts.
Lately he did not do any of these unwanted attacks. I would just be pleased that Ben go the same way.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 146 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Nov-2002 16:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (DaveW):
I had the same thought until I saw Mike posts on Amiga.org
I discussed that with him and come to the conclusion that even if he tried to know more about the "other side" to be objective he was still involved a lot with AmigaINC and that he his definitely biased.
He agred and say everyone is someone biased.
I may be somehow biased as I use MorphOS but I also use an amiga every day and as stated before me and my partner sold and still sell thousands of Amiga products and plan to sell OS4 as well as MorphOS.
I thought that Amifan statement would help people understand how sometimes it is time to get rid of the role we are playing.
I have no problem to say that MorphOS will surely be great and OS4 to.
Do you ?
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 147 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Nov-2002 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (DaveW):
If you look at older posts you can see posts i did about any kind of poeple. I'am not single sided like most of the people writing here.
I wil try to catch anyone insulting anyone. You can even email me if you find someone doing it, even if it is a MorphOS supporter.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 148 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 26-Nov-2002 17:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (Christophe Decanini):
>What I criticize lately is how Ben has done personnal attacks,
Really? Where did I attack anyone's character?
I have voiced opinions about legal and technical claims, that's all.
>or points on MorphOS people,
Yes? Who?
>OS technical feature he had no idea off, etc...
I'm sorry but your pro-MorphOS prejudice is getting ridiculously out of hand.
I am confronted on a daily basis with posts from MorphOS supporters dragging the hard work of talented developers through the mud based on nothing more than their personal prejudice.
I have never seen you raise any objections to such posts.
If you have any sense left, step down as moderator because you are not sufficiently neutral anymore to carry out this job.
I don't blame you for taking sides, you are free to do so but at least recognise that you are no longer qualified to be an impartial moderator.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 149 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 26-Nov-2002 17:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Christophe Decanini):
>>"I'm sure he can take care of himself."
>I'am also sure he would take care of yourself if you continue this way.
Stop and consider that laywers go after me every day and I go after lawyers every day.
That's my job.
This is probably the least impressive threat you can make.
Thendic holding Amiga licence and patents? : Comment 150 of 189ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 26-Nov-2002 18:38 GMT
Where did the post allegedly written by Bill McEwen go?
Anonymous, there are 189 items in your selection (but only 89 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 189]
Back to Top