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[News] AmigaRing status updateANN.lu
Posted on 24-Nov-2002 23:24 GMT by Mike Bouma14 comments
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I have written a small update about the current status of AmigaRing, which also includes a small letter to the Amiga community, within which I try to express my believes and hopes on how I believe the Amiga community could function more effectively. Feedback will be most welcomed. Local copy:

Dear Amiga community,

There are several things I would like bring to your attention:

Regarding AmigaRing:

Most members have now successfully registered their information with the new Webring system. If you haven't done so already, then please contact me, so I can help you with adding your information correctly. Imporant is that you should never use a fake or incorrect email address. Your email address will stay hidden for everyone including me, but if your email address is incorrectly registered with the Webring service, I will not be able to contact you through the internal Webring mailing system.

Also I took the time to inspect all the websites of AmigaRing members, this to evaluate if all member websites conform to all given criteria. Currently we have a 100% webring integrity. To ensure the highest amount of visibility of both AmigaRing itself and its members, I am paying Webring to enable us to receive the best possible search results and also allowing specific Amiga community targeted advertisement oppertunities within AmigaRing, with banners up to 728 x 90 on all Hub pages. In addition I will allow maximumly 3 members to feature their websites within AmigaRing more prominently. Contact me if you are interested.

Regarding the Amiga community:

I would like to make some requests to all webmasters and members of the Amiga community. Many things have changed over the last few years and finally several Amiga community projects are coming to fruition, therefor I would like to ask you to keep your websites up to date or to delete obsolete content and add redirections to other better maintained websites. Also over the years many website locations have changed, so please update your weblinks as well. This to allow new interested individuals to find relevant and up to date information as effectively as possible.

Another important request is geared towards supporters of these rival projects. Although competition and rational and constructive criticism should in my opinion be applauded, I believe it is truly in our best interest to stay objective, non-hostile and keeping misinformation or flamewars to a minimum. Many recent Amiga shows and trade-fairs have shown that rival projects can live peacefully next to eachother, there even are many overlapping efforts between some projects and also good relationships between developers supporting different Amiga community projects. Please show some respect for eachother and don't bindly judge situations or issues, for which most people simply don't have any access to insider information or just hear one side of the story from a 3rd party.

I am looking forward to seeing many of you at the upcoming big German Amiga fair, which is going to be held on the 7th and 8th of December 2002 at the Eurogress in Aachen. :-) Finally, I have written several OSNews articles these last couple of months, covering different Amiga community projects, your feedback on those articles will be welcomed:

Recent OSNews topics:

2002-07-15 - A Closer Look at the New Amiga Systems (Article)
2002-11-01 - AmigaOne Motherboards with G3/G4 CPUs Now on Sale (News item)
2002-11-22 - New AmigaOS4 Screenshots (News Item)

2002-08-19 - Classic AmigaOS Emulation - A Guide for WinUAE (Article)
2002-10-08 - A Closer Look at MorphOS on the PEGASOS (Article)
2002-11-05 - First WoASE Show Reports and Highlights (Show roundup)

Sincerely, Mike Bouma.
AmigaRing http://www.stormloader.com/amiga
AmigaRing status update : Comment 1 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 25-Nov-2002 14:09 GMT
Listen to this wise man :)
AmigaRing status update : Comment 2 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Nov-2002 14:48 GMT
While I fully agree with what Mike write I have to say something about that:
"Please show some respect for eachother and don't bindly judge situations or issues, for which most people simply don't have any access to insider information or just hear one side of the story from a 3rd party."
Access to insider information make a big difference.
I could give you a list of people writing here that have insider information at Thendic and a list of people having insider information at Amiga/Hyperion.
The problem is that knowing only one side of the story make these people objectivenes decrease regardless if they actualy know their bias or not.
I say that because Mike has been a notorious Amiga user/journalist and is closer from AmigaInc than Thendic/Bplan.
He wrote on this board and judged situations from un unbalanced position. He is far from being alone and he is not blindly attacking anyone.
However I could notice that his involvement with Thendic/Bplan increased and I think he made a move in the right direction to know about all sides of the story.
So congats to all people that go the same way. Insults and endless biased debate won't help us.
AmigaRing status update : Comment 3 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 25-Nov-2002 15:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Christophe Decanini):
One thing which is very important for me, is that I receive information about various projects only from the actual people directly involved.
This means with regard to AmigaOS4 or AmigaDE, Hyperion and Amiga Inc, and with regard to MorphOS/Pegasos that would mean Genesi, etc. If I would allow this to be mixed, things will start to get very messy indeed and there have been problems with regard to this in the past. I believe currently all parties know my standpoint and point of view, I will not tolerate to stand in the middle of mud slinging contests.
I believe everyone is doing their best to deliver us quality products. Without a good products there are no commercially viable companies.
Things are looking up and the future looks alot brighter than a couple of years ago. :)
AmigaRing status update : Comment 4 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Nov-2002 15:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Mike Bouma):
Yes, I agree.
The problem is as soon as you are close from one side, the other side trust you less. It makes sense as sensible information could leak to a competitor.
It is easier to be just in one side than to stay objective.
AmigaRing status update : Comment 5 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Nov-2002 16:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Christophe Decanini):
I just want to point out that I disagree completely with you on another point:
On Amiga.org you say
"As the way I see this, Ben Hermans mainly clarifies questions/statements with regard to their product, AmigaOS4.
If this is wise to do so, on a public forum like ANN, I have difficulty forming an opinion. (considering trolling, public insults, etc on ANN) If Mr. Buck would mainly clarify questions/statements with regard to their products, namely MorphOS/Pegasos, I would most certainly applaud this. And this would IMO mean alot of added value to such forums.
Confusion hower should IMO be avoided at all cost."
Even if you are known to be on the Amiga side don't lie to us.
You have to admit that Ben is regularly throwing mud to Thendic.
He just did that on Thendic lawyer. He did with the stolen source FUD.
He does regularly with some technical points he has no idea of (quark does not support SMP, the Morphos emulation technology is a dirty hack ...).
So if you really are fed up with stupid attacks you shall talk wuth your buddy Ben Hermans and tell him not to give the bad example.
It is a bit easy to say to everyone to stop doing what you are doing right now.
I tried to be as mils as I could approaching your posts but I now think that you are settling the confusion as you tell the people to be objective when you are definitely not objective.
AmigaRing status update : Comment 6 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Nov-2002 16:58 GMT
" I believe it is truly in our best interest to stay objective, non-hostile and keeping misinformation or flamewars to a minimum. "
LOL!
That's rich coming from YOU, Mike, given the utter lack of impartiality in many of your articles...
AmigaRing status update : Comment 7 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Nov-2002 17:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Yes, I think I have been blind for a few hours today. well I only got 4 hours of sleep last night.
AmigaRing status update : Comment 8 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 25-Nov-2002 17:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Christophe Decanini):
> I just want to point out that I disagree completely with you on another
> point:
Well we don't have to agree on everything.
> You have to admit that Ben is regularly throwing mud to Thendic.
<snip>
> So if you really are fed up with stupid attacks you shall talk wuth your
> buddy Ben Hermans and tell him not to give the bad example.
Ben Hermans is knowledgable enough to defend himself here. If his ANN postings are mud or defence of Ben's points of view, is dependent upon the eye of the beholder.
Without Ben's comments here on ANN, there would have been alot of misinformation circulating here about AmigaOS4. Having read many of his postings here, I am confident to say that he does mainly only clarify questions/statements, regardless if they are sometimes somewhat emotionally tainted because of the trolling and insults he has to encounter.
> are settling the confusion as you tell the people to be objective when you
> are definitely not objective.
I try to be as objective as possible, I can only ask you to try as well, we don't have to agree on every point to accomplish this goal.
With regard to confusion, I am trying to be as clear as possible towards people. Nomatter if I speak with Bill McEwen or Bill Buck, I speak my mind openly, what I think of their actions or ideas. What they read here from me should be no surprize to any of them.
AmigaRing status update : Comment 9 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Nov-2002 17:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Mike Bouma):
But of course you never said anything bad about Amiga which make your objectiveness very thin.
So try to be more objective as you for example removed all examples I gave you about Ben throwing mud at thendic / bplan
As a lawyer and a project leader Ben should forget his "emotions" which are often claims that his competitors are either doing illegal activities, either saying that their solutions are wrong technical choices either implying that their employees are not qualified.
It is not just a matter of claiming to be objective. You have to be objective too.
Your bias is much worse than some other people as you are such a public person / journalist. Not all people are blind enough not to see that, Mike.
Now, we will really wonder if your next article will be objective or definitely biased in favor of AmigaINC. I'am affraid I already know.
AmigaRing status update : Comment 10 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 25-Nov-2002 17:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Christophe Decanini):
> But of course you never said anything bad about Amiga which make your
> objectiveness very thin.
OK, Amiga Inc's PR stinks and their website sucks so far, happy now. ;)
> As a lawyer and a project leader Ben should forget his "emotions"
We are all only human, maybe you are asking the impossible. Of course it would have been better if Hyperion had a dedicated person for dealing with misinformation on public forums.
> which are often claims that his competitors are either doing illegal
> activities
Such views still exist. They have given their views on abuse of their IP to the public, if this is right or wrong only the courts can decide. At least we shouldn't be suprized if legal action takes out a party. (IMO, if they would have said nothing, the end result may have been far more damaging)
> either saying that their solutions are wrong technical choices
> either implying that their employees are not qualified.
Maybe from his point of view this is true. If known alot of extremely talented developers within the AmigaDE and AmigaOS4 teams, IMO the best ones the Amiga community has to offer. I don't know most people within the MorphOS team well enough to judge them, there are some people which give me hope (Piru, Nicholas, Carda, etc)
> It is not just a matter of claiming to be objective. You have to be
> objective too.
It is generally impossible for human beings to be entirely objective.
> Your bias is much worse than some other people as you are such a public
> person / journalist. Not all people are blind enough not to see that, Mike.
Well that is your opinion, and I am not saying I am completely unbiased (IMO nobody could), I can only assure you that I try to be so, as much as possible. And we should try to respect eachother's ideas and preferences.
> Now, we will really wonder if your next article will be objective or
> definitely biased in favor of AmigaINC. I'am affraid I already know.
Well think what you want, my next article is probably going to be an Aachen show report. If I like the offerings presented there, you will see positive articles from me nomatter what the products may be. Maybe I fall in love with a c-one!? ;)
AmigaRing status update : Comment 11 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Nov-2002 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Christophe Decanini):
Hmmm, yes, off the top of my head I can actually point out many many more examples of Hermans commenting in public on the products, actions, plans, competence, employees and whatnot of other companies, than giving useful information about his own company's product.
OTOH I can't, OTTOMH, recall that I've seen e.g. BB/Thendic/Genesi ever comment in a similar fashion on Hyperion or its employees, products etc. Yeah, that Google search term sponsoring of "ben hermans" was childish/flattering/amusing (depending on how you look at it) but I don't see any outright berating of competitors.
In any case I don't think it's a good idea to write allegedly unbiased technical articles for tech news sites based only on what's really nothing but hearsay. Yes, it's from the horse's mouth so to speak, at least when it's about the horse's product, but that does not equal objectivity.
Company X, to article author: "Our product Y will be really really great, buy our stuff, company Z sucks".
Article: "Y will be really really great, buy their stuff, and Z sucks".
Such an article would be of no interest to the readership, it's no different from reading some PR on the company site, and would gain no credibility in the eyes of the reader over that company PR. Add your own thoughts, cut through the marketing fluff, discuss pros and cons, and FFS get info from several mutually independent sources and treat the info with equal skepticism!
N.B. I'm not trying to diss your articles in particular, Mike. After that "buy a T-shirt" article on OSNews, I'm happy to see the vast improvement since then, and I find them more and more informative and interesting. I'm merely objecting to some of the "general advice" or whatever I should call it that you give out here.
AmigaRing status update : Comment 12 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 25-Nov-2002 18:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
> in a similar fashion on Hyperion or its employees, products etc.
People within the MorphOS team, have for example written many hundreds(/thousands?!) of just such postings at the public Moobunny message board. These peope have not only publicly insulted/ridiculed many excellent Hyperion/AmigaOS4/AmigaDE developers but almost anyone else dealing with Amiga Inc as well. Hopefully we will see better times in the future.
> I don't think it's a good idea to write allegedly unbiased technical
> articles for tech news sites based only on what's really nothing but
> hearsay.
I would never do such a hearsay review. Nobody from Haage&Partner for example, had more than 0% input on what I have written in my AmigaOS XL review. When things do not exist yet, like the mention of the Eclipsis within my MorphOS/Pegasos article, you are dependent on hearsay from the horse's mounth. But this was more a preview article, so that shouldn't be much of a problem IMO.
> After that "buy a T-shirt" article on OSNews
I have never written such an article. There was a "Closer Look at the New Amiga Systems" article however, which mentioned the Amiga Club however, this was IMO informative considering this was news at the time.
AmigaRing status update : Comment 13 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Asemoon on 25-Nov-2002 21:00 GMT
Thank you for all your efforts Mike!
AmigaRing status update : Comment 14 of 14ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 25-Nov-2002 21:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Asemoon):
He Asemoon, long time no see. :)
BTW I have read your translation of Petra's BeGeistert MorphOS Report, http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2002-10-00180-EN.html , good job, but too bad that the translated article wasn't submitted to any English languaged Amiga news website, so it seems...
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