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[News] Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post.ANN.lu
Posted on 04-Dec-2002 13:31 GMT by Christian Kemp275 comments
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Eyetech replied to Bill Buck and Raquel Velasco's recent posting in the AmigaOne group at Yahoo. This is a repost under my name, since the original poster asked for the article to be removed. I don't agree with the view that this message should be kept off ANN since it is an interesting read and presents, in a way, the other side of the story; but after some consideration decided to respect the original poster's wish to have his posting and name removed, and opted to create a duplicate.
I'm afraid Buck has exceeded even his usual level of bullshit and innuendo on this one.

My take on this:

Our announcement of the G4 availability and pricing, and of the (solved) Articia problem at the WoA SE was not what he expected. Since then we have been innundated for dealership agreements from ex-Amiga dealers who have (and their customers have) good memories of the Amiga OS and a growing hatred of Windows. The polls, such as they, are show that the A1-XE G4 is by far the most popular PPC platform for the Amiga community and this must also have been a bit of a shock. (Is it also a coincidence that we've been the recipients of an intense, targeted virus campaign since then, I wonder?)

Meanwhile Hyperions work on PPCBoot and linux has allowed the Teron reference boards to get to a level where they can be usefully sold in the Linux Market. As most on this list will know we have the rights to distribute these boards in Europe and now Terrasoft do in the US. (We also have distribution rights on the Teron based designs for the Amiga marker worldwide). This has knackered Thendics plans for world domination of the PPC Linux market.

Reading between the lines it seems that they are prepared to drop MorphOS altogether if they can get their hands on OS4 to at least salvage something. Buck plans to do this by suing Amiga Inc (for what?) and bribing us to abandon the AmigaOne and Hyperion to port OS4 to the pegasos hardware . Sorry, thats not on. You can only have sensible business arrangements with people who are trustworthy and behave with integrity. There are plenty of instances (which are inappropriate to reveal here) where these principles have been completely abandoned on his side.

On their so-called relationship with MAI, we/hyperion have done more to help MAI get the Teron design to the linux market than ever bplan have, alltough I don't doubt that Gerald Carda made an important contribution to identifying the Articia bug - I've every respect for him as a hardware engineer.

As far as Thendic making their own boards is concerned thats a complete joke. Its a matter of public record that Thendic-France incorporated as a one-man company with the minimum 7500 euros of capital. Thendic, like us and MAI do not actually make anything themselves, manufacture is all subcontracted. In our case its to a Tiawanese specialist, in Thendic's its to DCE. Based on our past experience of quality assurance and after sales service from DCE I personally would never buy any DCE manufactured products for resale again.

Well you did ask

Alan

Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 1 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 04-Dec-2002 12:33 GMT
Still there though (as at 13:32 GMT) ;)
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 2 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 04-Dec-2002 12:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Rik Sweeney):
Give him a chance :)
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 3 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 04-Dec-2002 12:36 GMT
Very interesting read, both articles are in fact. I know where my money is now.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 4 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 04-Dec-2002 12:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (DaveW):
Are you going to enlighten us then? :)
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 5 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 04-Dec-2002 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Rik Sweeney):
I am at work. There's no way I can spend all my time doing ANN administration, and as such there might always be delays of a few minutes (or hours) between tasks that would just take a second if I were doing this on a fulltime basis. Unfortunately, the money to be made from adverts on ANN.lu in no way enables me to go fulltime (and not even part-time).
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 6 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 04-Dec-2002 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Christian Kemp):
Thanks Christian.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 7 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 04-Dec-2002 12:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Christian Kemp):
Sorry, I wasn't having a go or criticising.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 8 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 04-Dec-2002 12:48 GMT
Good call CK :)
/Björn
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 9 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 04-Dec-2002 12:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Rik Sweeney):
Yeah, I tend to get defensive every now and then because lately there have been so many accusations flying around that it is hard to differenciate between well-intended ones and just plain old flamebait and hidden agendas...
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 10 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by vortexau on 04-Dec-2002 14:22 GMT
Thanks for the TEXT - I've never been able to read from a 'Yahoo-groups' link with AWeb.
Waiting- anxiously waiting for AmigaOS4!
(True ... I went for the 800Mhz G4, even went into debt for it, in the week following WOA-SE!)
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 11 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 04-Dec-2002 14:44 GMT
In my opinion the biggest problem hinted at in B&R's mail is not that
Teron might outcompete the Pegasos and AOne. The biggest problem would
be if Teron (and Eyetech?) sell buggy hardware and destroy the
consumer confidence not just in their products, but in PPC solutions
as a whole.
In my opinion, if Genesi have found bugs which go beyond that which
has been fixed by Eyetech, it would be in the interest of Genesi to
demonstrate these bugs to Eyetech, rather than hope that the AmigaOne
later gets its reputation destroyed. Maybe they are competitors, but
in this case I think the problem is more all those who buy neither
AOne's or Pegasoses than the few who buy the "other" system.
In this light, it's not very uplifting to see Alan dismiss the issue
so lightly. Ok, some problems with the Articia are fixed. How does he
know all problems are? A reasonable stance would be "prove it or I
don't believe you", but that is not what he's saying. This worries me.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 12 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 04-Dec-2002 14:56 GMT
Here's what I mean:
R&B writes: "The first patch is not enough. [..] There are more problems."
to which Alan responds talking about: ".. the (solved) Articia problem .."
(note the singular)
Later, Alan writes: "I don't doubt that Gerald Carda made an important
contribution to identifying the Articia bug - I've every respect for him as
a hardware engineer. "
But now, he doesn't seem to care about information about more bugs *from
the very same source*. Or he didn't read the R&B statement.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 13 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 04-Dec-2002 15:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Johan Rönnblom):
"This worries me."
I seriously doubt that.
/Björn
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 14 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Targhan on 04-Dec-2002 15:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Christian Kemp):
Yup, I understand the "not enough money" situation, Christian. I
think most of the community understands this, and are happy that you
(and the other webmasters) are still tirelessly (and usually
thanklessly) plugging away.
About the todo between pegasos/A1, it makes interesting reading.
That's about it. A lot of the potential customer base from within the
community has already made their minds up (re: flamefests...).
However, the market that both parties are after are going to look at
price/performance, and will likely not be your usual
ann.lu/amiga.org/amiga-news.de/czech-an readers. So, I'm going to sit
back, pop open a Pepsi, and hope that one of them opens the market up
a bit. Right now, I say AROS is in the lead, because they have
"Kitty" ;-P
Targhan
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 15 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 04-Dec-2002 15:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Johan Rönnblom):
I think that we have all established now that Genesi are perhaps over-reacting somewhat in light of the struggle ahead.
I don't for one second believe that decent companies like Eyetech and Hyperion would ever put consumer confidence at risk by releasing buggy or incomplete hardware or software.
---
Sam
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 16 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 04-Dec-2002 15:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Björn Hagström):
"I seriously doubt that."
Why? And if so, why would that be interesting to discuss?
If there's anything wrong about my reasoning, please point it out, but
I don't see anything productive coming out of a comment like that.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 17 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Dec-2002 15:20 GMT
Thendic sold ~150 betatesters. They are finding out this is their maximum MOS userbase. Every potential customer has been reached, their market is saturated.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 18 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 04-Dec-2002 15:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Sam Smith):
"I don't for one second believe that decent companies like Eyetech and
Hyperion would ever put consumer confidence at risk by releasing buggy
or incomplete hardware or software."
You believe Eyetech are some kind of God? Because, you do seem to
consider them infallible.
Or maybe you're just joking.. well it's hard to tell. :)
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 19 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 04-Dec-2002 15:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Johan Rönnblom):
It means that credibility is a frail thing. Some have more than others. And that speculation in this climate is not the perfect glue to use to neither build nor to keep it together.
/Björn
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 20 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Marktime on 04-Dec-2002 15:30 GMT
LAWD, people you don't get it, though both Bill and Alan recognize it.
We now have THREE companies selling the same board, the TeronCX board. The POP reference design boards using chips from MAI Logic.
Not TWO, we have THREE. And one is better and cheaper than the other two. And they sell internationally. But this is especially good for the North American market. I am sure, Germany will follow suit. If we have THREE, someday we will have FOUR. MAI is selling chipsets, after all, they would love to see this market expand.
Anyway, it should be clear already but anyway here's the deal. MorphOS is software that runs on any TeronCX motherboard. Pegasos's only claim at legitimacy was when they were the OTHER PowerPC solution....now they are just ONE of MANY solutions. MorphOS will run on ANY of the TeronCX boards.
You get it yet??? There is virtually no reason to buy a pegasos, unless it has the lowest price and highest quality, which it clearly does not. It is made by DCE (low quality) and the price is much higher than that of the Terrasoft Boxer.
Eyetech is in a little better shape, you still need to buy their board for the official 'amiga' solution, but there is no longer any reason at all to buy a pegasos, unless you are just a big Genesi fan.
If you are in the MorphOS camp, you are no longer tied at all to the Pegasos hardware....if morphOS is the next amiga...some say not, but if it is, then WOW you can buy the next Amiga for a full $100 less today than you could have just last week, thanks to Terrasoft Boxer....
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 21 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 04-Dec-2002 15:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Marktime):
Ehrw...
/Björn
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 22 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Dec-2002 15:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
Woa, hold your horses! Those ~200 MorphOS Betatester (among the ~1000 pegasos mobos) were sold as beta, to enthusiasts willing to buy an unfinished product and helping them test it. I think that it's a remarkable high volume, giving the conditions! A great deal of those people are presumably developers and/or very advanced users. I see this as a sign of strong support from those important groups.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 23 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 04-Dec-2002 15:41 GMT
in reply to comment 19:
Then why don't you tell me what's not credible about what I write, or
what it is that is speculation? Why do you think anyone would be
interested in you saying "I don't believe that" without offering any
arguments?
in reply to comment 20:
Although it's difficult to compare since neither the Pegasos or the
Teron board is readily available (because of the HW problems), it
seems to me that the Pegasos does have a competitive price. Besides,
it's smaller and has more features (firewire, sound, ethernet).
But you're right in one thing of course, in that the Pegasos (and the
AOne) will have to compete against the Teron.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 24 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 04-Dec-2002 15:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
that was a pure flamebait you just took a bite at it ;)
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 25 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Dec-2002 15:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (reflect):
>that was a pure flamebait you just took a bite at it ;)
But was it? I think not. Maybe slightly exaggerated. But you don't really see a future with more than ~300 MOS users do you? BB certainly doesn't, he is in panic mode.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 26 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 04-Dec-2002 15:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Johan Rönnblom):
I'm talking to you, not the world. All I'm trying to say is try to see what people will see when speculation like that is done, and what they will think about you and what agenda they will think you have. Where you stand in all this boring mess isn't exacly unknown around here.
/Björn
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 27 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 04-Dec-2002 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
You have to know that the Betatester program was stopped and no boards were
sold anymore. That's why some people complain for example that they have
ordered a board from Vesalia but didn't get it (Vesalia had the boards however
without the April chip and therefore didn't sell them).
I think you should look at the whole picture. On the one side both parties
agree that there was a problem which was fixed in October/Nov 1st.
On the other side Genesi says that there are more problems which were just
discovered a few weeks ago and fixed just 2 weeks ago. Eyetech says that there are no more bugs. They tried to reproduce them but couldn't. They asked MAI and
they couldn't reproduce them either. And I'm sure Alan does really believe this.
However maybe Eyetech's claims are outdated. Let's imagine the following:
bplan discovers a strange behaviour. So they inform MAI and MAI can't reproduce
it. Eyetech hears abbout the new issues and asks MAI if there are more known
problem. MAI tells Eyetech that they couldn't reproduce it. Eyetech
announces "AmigaOne SE/XE with Articia-fix" (Nov 1st).
Bplan still has those problems and makes more research. Gerald Carda is
together with MAI for several weeks and they try to reproduce the problem
together. Finally they succeed. bplan and MAI develop a new revision of
the "April" chip. That's just been two weeks ago. Thendic announces the new
revision of the Chip as both parties, MAI and Genesi, think that it's the final
version and they are finally there.
So I'm sure Mr Redhouse thinks that there is not such a bug, simply because his
information is outdated for just a few weeks.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 28 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 04-Dec-2002 15:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
As have been said here before, those 200 was betatester setups. For enthusiasts and developers. The next few months will be the real trial to see what the interrest for their products really are.
/Björn
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 29 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 04-Dec-2002 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Johan Rönnblom):
It's true that none of these solutions is available.
Which makes direct reviews and formal comparisons impossible.
And perhaps some people will like the Pegasos for its,umm
built in firewire, and who knows, maybe someone will write
a driver for the firewire port and it can even be a useful
feature of the board.
WOW, even *IF* and when Amiga returns the 50 dollars they
borrowed from the club members, the thanks someone will get
for buying an AmigaONE is still paying an additional 50
dollars MORE than someone who just buys the terrasoft board.
I agree totally with Bill, AOS and MorphOS will be readily
available for the teron the moment such software is released,
dongle schemes or not.
Well, I am no pirate, but they do exist. Amiga can sell me
an OS if they want, if they don't want, then guess I won't be
buying AOS4 after all.
Its getting close now, I cannot wait to actually make a purchase,
I still don't know what I'll buy! but it'll be the lowest cost solution
I'll tell you that much!
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 30 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 04-Dec-2002 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (David Scheibler):
>So I'm sure Mr Redhouse thinks that there is not such a bug, simply because his
>information is outdated for just a few weeks.
Thats a lovely bit of reasoning based on pure conjecture, but do you have any proof?
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 31 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Dec-2002 16:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Björn Hagström):
> It means that credibility is a frail thing. Some have more than others.
Credability is in the eye of the beholder IMHO, and every beholder seems to be somewhat biased these days.
I can of course only speak for my self, but I must say that I have great confidence in the Genesi group. They are the only ones in this "debate" that has actually developed a motherboard using the Mai chips and also developed an OS for it (an OS that's up and running *as we speak*). If they say they have found hardware bugs, and ways to correct them, then I find no reason not to trust it.
Now there is a corporate representative from a competing company (of course biased in the other direction) that claims otherwise. They have *no* experiance from developing Mai based mother boards, and has *no* experiance in getting a PPC OS up and running on it. It is not out of evil that Alan is writing that post (and the way he writes it in), but I fear that he doesn't know what he is talking about. How could he? After all, they are only *reselling* the Mai boards! And as a result, he post this message on a public forum, a message which doesn't really say anything.
Alans post is mostly a FUD vs. FUD, Marketing vs. Marketing post, at the same somewhat "low level" as the post he responds to. It's all about business to Genesi, and it's all about business to Eyetech. They are just the same, and they are sitting in the same boat. I wish that they would at least *try* to cooperate, or at least *consider* it for a while, instead of slamming the door without thinking it through.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 32 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Dec-2002 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
>> that was a pure flamebait you just took a bite at it ;)
Aaaahh!!
> But was it? I think not.
Well of course it was. I see it now!
> Maybe slightly exaggerated. But you don't really see a future with more than
> ~300 MOS users do you?
Make that ~300 developers/advanced users. The official launch to end users will be this weekend.
> BB certainly doesn't, he is in panic mode.
That conclusion stands for you!
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 33 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 04-Dec-2002 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Peter Gordon):
No of course not. I don't know as anyone else writing here. However I think
that this scenario is likely.
One side says there are bugs, the other side says there are not. From an
objective point of view only one side can be correct. From a subjective point
of view both might be right.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 34 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Lawd on 04-Dec-2002 16:09 GMT
My God! Why is it that only clowns are running the remaining "Amiga" businesses?
The usual level of bullshit, innuendo and an astonishing ignorance on technical matters are upped one more notch by this introduction:
"I'm afraid Buck has exceeded even his usual level of bullshit and innuendo on this one."
"Our announcement of the G4 availability and pricing, and of the (solved) Articia problem at the WoA SE was not what he expected."
Is Alan as absolutely braindead as he makes himself look?
What "G4 availability"? They haven't even started their distribution of the G3 Teron CX! Why would Buck not have expected Alan to "announce" the Articia bug? Would Alan be *expected* to lie as usual? You know, "The 'AmigaOne' is not a Teron CX", "The Teron CX costs almost $4000", "It is the design of 'our hardware division', we were only recommended a manufacturer by Mai", "Yes, there's onboard sound... ...but you'll have to buy a home made AMR card from one of our customers in Norway", "There are no bugs, oh, the buggy VIA 686A will be upgraded", "Oh, bplan... sorry... our 'hardware division' has discovered a bug in the ummm whassitcalled, northbridge". And so on.
You have a point in that we didn't expect to see unproduced, future boards like the Teron PX already having passed that strict quality assurance and compatibility testing with AmigaOS running flawlessly on them. They must have passed that, right? You're already marketing them under the licensed trademark "AmigaOne" after all, and taking pre-orders. Just like you did with the original, even more buggy evaluation version of the Teron CX, when not even an alpha of OS4 ran on *any* hardware. Announced and sold as pre-orders as an "AmigaOne".
But since you helped invent the licencing shit, maybe that's exactly what we expected...
"The polls, such as they, are show that the A1-XE G4 is by far the most popular PPC platform for the Amiga community and this must also have been a bit of a shock."
Playing the idiot again. Exactly which mobo other than the Teron PX distributed by Eyetech has been "licensed" and by which licensee? None? So why would it be "shocking" for anyone that the goddamn "community" (it's called customers, Alan, don't be afraid, say it, customers) are likely to buy THE ONLY ALLOWED G4 MOBO FROM THE ONLY ALLOWED DISTRIBUTOR if they want to use AmigaOS legally? Huh? What "polls", by the way? The same "polls" that "consulted users and developers" when AmigaOS got its kiss of death with the licencing requirement?
"(Is it also a coincidence that we've been the recipients of an intense, targeted virus campaign since then, I wonder?)"
Ah, "the usual level of innuendo" eh? Slithering creep.
Ask your "hardware division" for advice, and "they" will tell you to stop clicking on unknown attachments. People don't really mean it, Alan, when they send you mail with "I LOVE YOU" as the subject. It's not even people, it's infected and compromised clients and servers.
Grow the f-ck up.
"Meanwhile Hyperions work on PPCBoot and linux has allowed the Teron reference boards to get to a level where they can be usefully sold in the Linux Market."
Even if that were true, what the f-ck would it have to do with Buck's post?
For each sentence Alan writes I'm starting to believe that he's not just *pretending* to be clueless. Hint: Hyperion is NOT the only company in the world that can add code to existing code, and PPCBoot or not is irrelevant, any firmware can be reprogrammed and/or exchanged.
"As most on this list will know we have the rights to distribute these boards in Europe"
Not exclusively, we hope.
"(We also have distribution rights on the Teron based designs for the Amiga marker worldwide)."
That's one way of putting it, another is that you have a monopoly on distributing hardware to AmigaOS users. Thanks, Eyetech, for providing "consultation" when the licensing and its conditions were invented!
"This has knackered Thendics plans for world domination of the PPC Linux market."
Has Thendic ever planned to distribute Teron boards? Was Thendic unaware of the existence of the Teron boards? Did Thendic plan to buy all Teron boards and dump them from a stealth warship in the Pacific Ocean, with Bill Buck standing on deck with his pinky extended to his mouth, a white cat in his other arm and going "MOUAHAHAHA!"? What the f*ck are you talking about?
Besides, Macs and IBM servers/workstations dominate the PPC Linux market.
"Reading between the lines it seems that they are prepared to drop MorphOS altogether if they can get their hands on OS4 to at least salvage something. Buck plans to do this by suing Amiga Inc (for what?) and bribing us to abandon the AmigaOne and Hyperion to port OS4 to the pegasos hardware . Sorry, thats not on."
Excuse me, I thought you were replying to Bill Buck's post on amiga.org, not the voices in your head or whatever.
It seems you have forgotten your what your company does, with regards to this situation. You distribute motherboards. If the motherboards you resell are called "Teron" or "Pegasos" matters little to you, if your customers are buying them. "Abandon" the Teron boards? WTF? Sell both Terons and Pegasoses then, moron, it's just hardware.
"You can only have sensible business arrangements with people who are trustworthy and behave with integrity."
Indeed!
"we/hyperion have done more to help MAI get the Teron design to the linux market than ever bplan have,"
You, Eyetech, have done squat. You are merely yet another distributor, remember? The Terons were on the Linux market before you and Mai had even heard of eachother. And exactly what do you think bplan should have done to "get the Teron" to the market when bplan (unlike you and your "hardware division") develops and sells a motherboard of their own?
"alltough I don't doubt that Gerald Carda made an important contribution to identifying the Articia bug "
Like FINDING and IDENTIFYING it and PROPOSING A FIX, him being a HARDWARE DESIGNER actually DESIGNING HARDWARE using the chipset in question? Compared to you and Eyetech who have difficulties with basic technical terms, that any 14 year old who's ever built a PC knows by heart. Again, you have forgotten what your business is about - distributing someone elses motherboard.
"Thendic, like us and MAI do not actually make anything themselves, manufacture is all subcontracted."
You really, really, really ARE absolutely clueless, or hoping that your customers are. Who the f-ck gives a flying f-ck about which fab it is that ASSEMBLES the hardware, and what the hell does it have to do with the amiga.org post you replied to? The Thendic/bplan people DESIGN their OWN hardware. Mai DESIGNS their OWN hardware. You buy hardware and distribute it. Stop comparing yourself with a hardware company. I have no idea in which assembly plant all my Amigas, PCs, Macs, SGIs, Blades and whatever were manufactured. I DO know pretty damn well who designed them all though.
"Based on our past experience of quality assurance and after sales service from DCE I personally would never buy any DCE manufactured products for resale again."
If you had a f-cking clue about hardware design and manufacturing (beyond slapping CD32's in new boxes or soldering mouse adapters...), then even a quick glance on a blurry photo of the PCB layout and component choice and placement of the Teron board (original intent: chipset development and evaluation) and the Pegasos board (original and current intent: end users and a commercial market) would tell you that you're a slandering asshole and that the Pegasos (and any other commercial end-user device) are better made products.
Let me tell you this, Alan. Even if your licence invention was ripped apart, and AmigaOS users would be "trusted" and allowed to choose their hardware distributors, I'd much rather buy a Teron board from Mai or Terrasoft, Inguard or any other distributor even if you sold it *cheaper* than them. You have a two-bit shop run by an uneducated, ignorant, abusive and incompetent buffoon. You obviously don't even have any knowledge about the product you're trying to distribute.
What's worse is that I see other idiots going "oh, there you have it then, the unbiased thruth instead of a marketing stunt" when reading your garbage.
So the World may Laugh.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 35 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Dec-2002 16:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Marktime):
>and the price is much higher than that of the Terrasoft Boxer.
Liar!
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 36 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Andrea Maniero on 04-Dec-2002 16:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Peter Gordon):
> >So I'm sure Mr Redhouse thinks that there is not such a bug, simply because his
> >information is outdated for just a few weeks.
>
> Thats a lovely bit of reasoning based on pure conjecture, but do you have any proof?
Some months ago one of the two camps denied the fact that the Articia chip was buggy at all. Now, it *might* be happening again with some other bugs we didn't know of.
Kind regards,
Andrea
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 37 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by dtomlyn on 04-Dec-2002 16:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Marktime):
Actually, Eyetech are in quite a good position...
Terrasoft are the distributors of the TeronCX boards in the US - Eyetech is the European, (maybe further?), equivalent... So hopefully Eyetech will sell few of those in addition to the A1.
In my book, the Pegasos is in big trouble, which is probably why the statement was 'published'.
I personally don't see any real future for Morphos, unless AOS4 dosen't take off, but who knows? I think that if Morphos actually runs on the normal TeronCX boards, then the authors of it are going to have their hands full writing drivers, stopping piracy, etc, which is the main reason the A1 exists, instead of just the TeronCX...
I happen to trust Eyetech / Hyperion more anyway - I've dealt with Eyetech in the past without any problems, and I respect the guys at Hyperion, since they've never given any FUD, and been very informative in their postings...
To be honest, I think the statement from Genesi? got the reply it deserved...
One things for sure, I'll be getting an AmigaOne when AOS4 is ready, and I'll be lending it to a few friends of mine, one of which is a senior computer analyst in London, (and my dad's girlfriend...), which can only be a good thing...:-) (I know a few people in the industry, but unfortunately most of the better ones are in America...:-( ).
Darren
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 38 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Dec-2002 16:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (vortexau):
>I went for the 800Mhz G4
As it now seems, the Pegasos G4-800 might be there earlier...
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 39 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 04-Dec-2002 16:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Björn Hagström):
No, you're replying to the world, not to me. My email-address is at
the top of each message.
If you find speculation, and you find it unreasonable, and you think
someone would be interested, it seems a bit bizarre that you don't
try to enlighten anyone. Or maybe you want to keep it a secret, for
those who are "able to see" only?
I mean - you still haven't presented any arguments, except for some
pure (although fairly civil) ad hominem which doesn't really count.
Now, of course it's not unclear "around here" where I stand. I've been
quite explicit in my posts for the last few years, so I don't think
there's too much left open for interpretation. However, I'm not quite
sure what this has to do with anything. Either there's something wrong
with what I'm saying, or there isn't. Who I am is probably utterly
insignificant to almost all readers of this forum.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 40 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Pegasos UK on 04-Dec-2002 16:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Marktime):
Have you checked the prices in www.pegasos-uk.com?
You'll probably be surprised!!
Kind Regards.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 41 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Pegasos UK on 04-Dec-2002 16:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Marktime):
Have you checked the prices in www.pegasos-uk.com?
You'll probably be surprised!!
Kind Regards.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 42 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Dec-2002 16:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Lawd):
>"Our announcement of the G4 availability and pricing, and of the (solved)
>Articia problem at the WoA SE was not what he expected."
>Is Alan as absolutely braindead as he makes himself look?
Hehe, especially since it was know before that they would have some G4 to
announce that would round up their product portfolio quite nicely on paper,
but falls short of being revolutionary really - Mac 3rd party accelerators
have (dual) G4-1GHz already!
>"Based on our past experience of quality assurance and after sales service
>from DCE I personally would never buy any DCE manufactured products for
>resale again."
Haha, but he stocks Elbox' products quite happily, I guess?
Who did make the AmigaOne prototype he used to show around so proudly in 2001?
O:-)
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 43 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 04-Dec-2002 16:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Johan Rönnblom):
If you're not interreted in listening then fine, that's up to you.
Being agreessive seldom takes anyone anywhere, except perhaps to the world championship in boxing and a few other sports.
/Björn
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 44 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 04-Dec-2002 16:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (David Scheibler):
The bottomline is that unless bPlan suddenly became a producer of Northbridge chips, both Eyetech and bPlan will be using the exact same version of the Articia S or April or whatever you want to call it.
This effectively means that all consumer targeted A1 boards will have the very latest Articia S chip.
Any other boards will either be fixed or can be traded in.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 45 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 04-Dec-2002 16:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Marktime):
> We now have THREE companies selling the same board, the TeronCX board. The
> POP reference design boards using chips from MAI Logic.
I really hope that you don't think that the Pegasos is a TeronCX board? Perhaps I misunderstood ...?
> There is virtually no reason to buy a pegasos, unless it has the lowest
> price
It has!
> and highest quality,
I believe it has! Prove me wrong!
And add this: Firewire, On board sound, an optical S/PDIF output for professional high fidelity, and a very flexible form factor (which makes it possible to use the mobo in lots of thinkable ways. A Mediaterminal/Divx player comes to my mind).
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 46 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Dec-2002 16:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (David Scheibler):
What if it was bPlan hardware problem and not MAI-problem at all ?
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 47 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Dec-2002 16:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>This effectively means that all consumer targeted A1 boards will have the very
>latest Articia S chip.
Is a new one being made right now? I always thought April were an _additional_ chip.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 48 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 04-Dec-2002 16:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>This effectively means that all consumer targeted A1 boards will have the very
>latest Articia S chip
Pegasos will also have the "very latest Articia S chip", but *also* the April
chip to fix all problems. May I remind you that Mr Redhouse told at WoASE that
there won't be fixed version of the Articia before March 2003. Neither you nor
Genesi can wait that long.
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 49 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 04-Dec-2002 16:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous):
That could be it ofcource, but it is improbable that the hardware designers would be stupid enough not to see what part is faulty or not.
/Björn
Eyetech Reply to BBRV open post. : Comment 50 of 275ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Dec-2002 16:39 GMT
If even MAI can't reproduce the problem then it makes me doubt that there is some problems in bplan's won systems.
Anonymous, there are 275 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 200] [201 - 250] [251 - 275]
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