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[News] Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble?ANN.lu
Posted on 13-Dec-2002 01:31 GMT by 52 comments
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Amiga.org reports Greg Perry from GPSoftware allegedly stating that Hyperion are in breech of their Directory Opus contract and development for that software for OS4 can not continue according to that report due to non-payment of contract fees.

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Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 1 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 13-Dec-2002 00:33 GMT
Oh boy.. I can see a BIG fight coming...
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 2 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 13-Dec-2002 04:15 GMT
I just hate it when that happens. Wonder if this means a possible MOS license instead for a port? That would be sweet.

Dammy
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 3 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Dec-2002 04:41 GMT
Four guys are in a bar, and they're all boasting about how they're the biggest supporter of Amiga and the others are imposters.

First guy says - "I slept with the manager of the bank and then blackmailed him to ensure that he'd give the Amiga crew go one last loan. I personally guaranteed nearly a million dollars of loans before the Boing Ball ever bounced in public. I'm their biggest supporter."

Second guy says - "Hardly. I actually selected the name "Amiga", I whispered it in JM's right ear while he slept every night for six months. I stole dozens of secret documents from NASA to leapfrog the technology being developed by rivals during the early 80s, then mailed them anonymously to Hi-Toro's employees."

Third guy says - "That's nothing, I single handedly convinced Commodore executives to accept the Amiga plan and bail them out when the Atari situation went bad. I had to travel through time to keep trying until I succeeded, and that's how I lost my hair."

Fourth guy says - "You're all talking a load of BS. I'm from the planet Xmrlt and I created the ecosystem on this planet solely in order to develop the best personal computer in the galaxy. It was all planned from the start, and I can prove it" (So saying he removes a mask to reveal an alien visage)

First three guys together "That clinches it, no real Amigan would offer any proof of their wild and unlikely stories. You're the imposter!"
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 4 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 13-Dec-2002 05:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
Heh..morning stories are nice :)

Personally I can not understand, why these things can't be discussed privately (you know, they even invented phone in some ancient millenium). But no. Everyone goes on crying across the public forums telling how badly was mistreated by company x.

I can only hope someone is able to clean this mess.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 5 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 13-Dec-2002 05:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
What, you don't believe the quoted message at amiga.org is really from Greg Perry? Or you don't believe he is telling the truth? Assuming the message is in fact from him, the "proof" seems to be there, so your story needs a new punchline.

-- gary_c
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 6 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 13-Dec-2002 08:05 GMT
New punchline?

Excuse me, but have you seen the comments on Amiga.org? Half of thems
eem to be bashing dr Perry now, calling him all sorts of bad things.
Ok, some of the worst posts are by the same persons but anyway. Makes
slashdot look like a place for mature adults.

Besides, reading dr Perry's mail, I get the feeling that "Opus for
OS4 in trouble" is quite a bit of an understatement.

Then finally about "sorting things in private". Well, unless dr Perry
is lying straight out, he's tried. Is it so strange then, if he has
publicly said they will do Opus for OS4, that he wants to publicly
announce why he's suddenly not going to do this? As dr Perry states,
he's not happy that their good name have been used like this. I find
this quite understandable and I don't think anyone should expect them
to silently put up with any kind of bad treatment.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 7 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 13-Dec-2002 09:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (dammy):
If MOS was suitable, maybe yes. But I still never seen a selected icon on Ambient. Are icons selectable ? (and you can see it is selected)

Thanks.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 8 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by derf on 13-Dec-2002 09:13 GMT
on the OS4 mailing list, the Friedens have said that they knew nothing of GPSoft trying to contact, that Hyperion answer every mail especially from other companies, take all business phone calls, but at the end of the day they are just programmers so it isnt their area but they didnt think there was a problem.

so as of now, Hyperion have had to contact GPSoft to try and find out whats going on.

any way, and i agree with the friedens here, why do some businesses go the more unprofessional route of airing their laundry in public like this. if the DOpus people had reservations then there is always the phone, as well as email, instead of messageboards and mailing lists.

this has now just given ammo to people who i expect 2 days ago agreed 'no more flaming or trolling' here on ANN....
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 9 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 13-Dec-2002 09:19 GMT
Without knowing the details...

I would quess that Hyperion has been thinking that licence fees start running at the release date or when the porting starts and GP thinks otherwise. (it might be silly to pay for the DOpus now if it is not going to be released untill OS4.1/boingBack in late 2003) Perhaps BenH has messed up the contract somewhere, perhaps not. Anyway, I bet this situation will be cleared pretty soon.

I hope this does not include some dirty OS politics...
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 10 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 13-Dec-2002 09:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (priest):
"I hope this does not include some dirty OS politics..."

Shortage of cash is a more likely problem, combined with a failure of
communications.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 11 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 13-Dec-2002 09:34 GMT
"If MOS was suitable, maybe yes. But I still never seen a selected icon on Ambient. Are icons selectable ? (and you can see it is selected)"

I think there is something of the sort:

http://osnews.redpulse.com/img/2337/morphos2.jpg

Compare the "Sound" and "Mixer" icons, which seems to be the same, except that "Sound" is selected.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 12 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 13-Dec-2002 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Emeric SH):
Oh, and how does it work when the not selected icon has a blue color ???
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 13 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 13-Dec-2002 09:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Elwood):
"But I still never seen a selected icon on Ambient. Are icons
selectable?"

This is offtopic, but you can have two images, or you can have some
effect applied on the regular image like tinting, shading, blurring
etc. The "default theme" as of now seems to use tinting. But if you
for example have some Newicons, they will look just like on the
Workbench, so there's not much point taking a screenshot of this..


Anyway, of course it's possible that dr Perry is totally
unprofessional and didn't even ask anyone before he made this public
statement. But on the other hand, it's possible that he isn't. It is
possible that he rather thinks that he tried all options and didn't
get anywhere.

Also, I think one should realise what a delay means. Some people seem
to think that it's ok if he doesn't get any money yet if there is a
delay, since he doesn't have to port DOpus yet in that case. Well,
wrong. Now that everybody knows DOpus will be included in OS4 anyway,
what do you think this means for sales of DOpus? My guess is that if
dr Perry can't get any money from the OS4 inclusion, at least he'd
want to be able to sell a few copies through the regular channels.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 14 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 13-Dec-2002 09:53 GMT
"Oh, and how does it work when the not selected icon has a blue color ???"

I don't have a PEG or MOS, but the question seems to be rather silly. Just as "what if a glowicon's unselected state has glow?". It's rather obvious that there is a selected/unselected image for all icons, and the selected one is not generated by the OS by simply making it blue, but it's another image. So the creator of the icon will of course make the two phases different. A PEG/MOS user may confirm tho.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 15 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 13-Dec-2002 09:53 GMT
Erm ..who posted this item ?
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 16 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 13-Dec-2002 09:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (dammy):
So dammy your going to buy a Pegasos/MOS then ?
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 17 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 13-Dec-2002 10:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Elwood):
In one of the three screenshots posted on OsNews, there was a selected icon. :) Look better.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 18 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 13-Dec-2002 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Emeric SH):
No, the blue image is not another image. However, if you want to make
your unselected images very blue, then probably you want to select
some other method to display selected icons (Red? Gray? Blurred?
Darkened? Negative? Etc..).
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 19 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by It's MEEEE!!! on 13-Dec-2002 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Elwood):
No, MOS is the only operating system in earth, which have icons you can't select...

Come on people. Ask something more interesting.

Of course you can select icons, also you can define effects when you click on them: negative, transparency, lighten, darken, colorize... etc, and everything 32bits (24+alpha) :)
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 20 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 13-Dec-2002 11:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (It's MEEEE!!!):
This is familiar, didnt GP put the same story out into the public domain about a
year ago?
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 21 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 13-Dec-2002 11:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (It's MEEEE!!!):
When I last tried MOS (a few weeks back) I just clicked on an icon and NOTHING happened (no glow, no other image, no color....). That's why I was asking. Thanks.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 22 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Piru on 13-Dec-2002 13:46 GMT
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=ueks0nct9dp12d%40corp.supernews.com

Oh! Great it got sorted!

Uh wait, that's dated 2002-05-21...
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 23 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by It's MEEE!!! on 13-Dec-2002 14:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Elwood):
Sorry, I was only joking, I though you were trolling (so many people doing it lately)

I apologize.

Don't know which version of MOS you tried or how the icon effect was configured.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 24 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Cluke on 13-Dec-2002 14:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Emeric SH):
Hmm. what's with the Quake 3 icon? Is there something we should know?? ;-)
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 25 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Cluke on 13-Dec-2002 14:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
LOL! Excellent!
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 26 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 13-Dec-2002 14:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Alkemyst):
Maybe, dunno yet. If this was ported to MOS instead, that would be a real incentive to go ahead and buy a Pegasos. Seeing Unilator is DOA, it maybe a the only real answer left for me.

Dammy
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 27 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 13-Dec-2002 16:44 GMT
One thing is missin here..

Where is that usually so overactive Lawyer who speaks for Hyperion? I have seen no messages from him concerning this Dopus issue?
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 28 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by It's MEEE!!! on 13-Dec-2002 17:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (JoannaK):
>> Where is that usually so overactive Lawyer who speaks for Hyperion? I have
>> seen no messages from him concerning this Dopus issue?

That's an easy one! You know...
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 29 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 13-Dec-2002 19:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (JoannaK):
Hmmm ...
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 30 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Wollert on 13-Dec-2002 19:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (JoannaK):
lol Joanna "overactive lawyer"
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 31 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 13-Dec-2002 19:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Martin Wollert):
Well.. Actually Hyperactive might have been better word, but you know whom I ment :)
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 32 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by marktime on 13-Dec-2002 19:58 GMT
What is so hard to understand about they didn't get paid any money.

what is soooo hard about that? The e-mail states very clearly, there is no misunderstanding, they didn't pay the money.

so what will the first 1,000 comments be from the true believers: 'I'm sure its just a misunderstanding.'

AIYEEEEE...get a grip people.

It's bad enough Amiga doesn't have any money, they also go around signing contracts even though they know they don't have any money. They borrow money from the community to raise an additional 50K a-la OS4 pre-sales, where'd that money go?

This is HIGHLY UNETHICAL CONDUCT. OK!!! This former Amiga, Inc. fan is telling you. They borrowed 50 GRAND from the community pre-selling OS4.
The AmigaDE iniative maybe was just a disappointing move on the part of Amiga at one time, but now it is so much more than that. They borrowed 50 GRAND on PRE-SALES of OS4/AmigaOne, and they didn't use the money to complete OS4.

Borrowing money for the DE project is only OK, if you are honest about it. If you LIE and pre-sell a product with such and such features and behind the scenes you aren't working on it at all, and use the money you get from pre-sales to do other things....well that is just BS!

OK, I don't know why I bother with the comments, either you get it or you don't.
I was an AMIGA fan, I wanted Amiga, Inc. to do well.

They are a huge disappointment, I hope they go out and get real jobs at Burger King soon.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 33 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 13-Dec-2002 20:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (marktime):
Dunno, Burger King file for bankruptsy protection last week:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/breaking_news/4665830.htm

Dammy
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 34 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Dec-2002 20:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (marktime):
>It's bad enough Amiga doesn't have any money, they also go
>around signing contracts even though they know they don't have any money.

I actually agree with what you are saying in you post, but I have to correct one thing for the sake of being truthful.

This Directory Opus issue has got nothing to do with Amiga Inc. as far as I know. It is a deal between GPSoftware and Hyperion, which is certainly a partner but not a part of Amiga Inc.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 35 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 13-Dec-2002 20:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (JoannaK):
He's probably out there thinking for a perfect phrase which will lead all suspicion from hyperion's end to gp soft ;) That's the way he usually replies when the going gets tough. He would be a great politician. Anyway as for now it's impossible to say whether it's true or not what has been posted on amiga org.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 36 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Linus G on 13-Dec-2002 20:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (JoannaK):
Could it be that they do not want to discuss their contracts in public forums ?
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 37 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 13-Dec-2002 21:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Linus G):
Well.. He's been discussing and commenting others contracs and products and hardware and software.. So stopping now when he actually might know something important does look a bit strange.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 38 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Pimp Daddy on 13-Dec-2002 22:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (dammy):
Read the article - AmeriKing, the second largest Burger King licensee has filed for protection.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 39 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Linus G on 13-Dec-2002 22:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (JoannaK):
If there is a problem with a contract it would be insane to discuss it in public. Could you tell me about one problem with a SIGNED contract that Ben has discussed in a public forum ?
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 40 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Dec-2002 22:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (marktime):
a) Idiot.
b) An investment of ~5mio $ that allows any development on OS in the firstplace is of course irrelevant.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 41 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Dec-2002 22:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (JoannaK):
> Well.. He's been discussing and commenting others contracs and products and hardware and software.. So stopping now when he actually might know something important does look a bit strange.

"its unprofessional to discuss ones [own] business matters in public forums"
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 42 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 13-Dec-2002 22:46 GMT
What part of this comment did you not understand ?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Btw: Don't cross post this comment in other lists without my permission.

__
Regards, Dr Greg Perry
GPSoftware, PO Box 570, Ashgrove, Qld Australia Ph/fax +617 33661402
Email: greg@gpsoft.com.au web: www.gpsoft.com.au
=========================================

I have stated elsewhere that people lack any damn etiquette at all these days. The level of rabble rousing and stirring is laughable. Do you guys not have anything else to occupy your time ??? :)

I would suggest that only two groups of people know the story here. GPsoftware, and Hyperion. And as we know nothing apart from a public comment, I really think people should leave well alone.

AdmV
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 43 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Dec-2002 01:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (AdmV):
>Btw: Don't cross post this comment in other lists without my permission.

Amiga.org had permission to post the comment. They stated so when doing it. It is also a matter of public record (see GPSoftware's DOpus mailing list archives, they are public) that they sought and got such permission.

At no time has the post been cross-posted or copied to ANN. ANN only reported that Amiga.org had such a posting. It was not even quoted, even though this would most likely have been perfectly legal under fair use law or similar applicable.

Greg Perry posted this issue on a public list. He also gave permission for Amiga.org to post in on their very public site. He had to know the word would spread. It was made public, and if we were to follow journalistic ethic, it would be almost unethical NOT to report on such a piece of news.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 44 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by database monster on 14-Dec-2002 03:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
Regarding b), please get your facts straight.

I recommend you reading this:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1021495002&category=news&number=88

and this:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1017778845&category=news&number=74

and this:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1016814489&category=news&number=158

and this:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1004850050&category=unmoderated&number=22

and this:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1004765547&category=unmoderated&number=110
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 45 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 14-Dec-2002 10:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
> and if we were to follow journalistic ethic
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[ducks]
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 46 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 14-Dec-2002 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Bill Hoggett):
Burger King is getting an injection of $500m from the new owners.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 47 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Dec-2002 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (database monster):
> b), please get your facts straight.

Care to enlighten me what you think was wrong?? ~5mio fits 4.5 imo. And without an owner willing to allow a further development of AmigaOS nothing would have happened. Im not gonna blame them for being low on money after investing 4.5mio$. Ok, they tried to negotiate with the morphos team but if that had worked out, morphos would have been build upon AmigaOS and not rewritten.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 48 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Dec-2002 14:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Bill Hoggett):
>> and if we were to follow journalistic ethic
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Isn't that an oxymoron?

You know, Bill, I thought of that when writing. These days, probably - at least possibly.

But it used to mean something. Journalistic ethic, that is. That meaning is what I was referring to.

Freedom of the press, serving the public, all that. Today we have companies like Apple trying to control what is said of them - and succeeding.

And companies like Amiga and partners who try the same.
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 49 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-Dec-2002 12:00 GMT
Is this matter still without the official clarification?
Directory Opus for OS4 in trouble? : Comment 50 of 52ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 16-Dec-2002 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (priest):
Apparently this Dopus issue is not important to Hyperion cause they have neither admitted nor denied this thing. Ah well.. What next?
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