| [Forum] blast from the past | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 18-Dec-2002 08:56 GMT by Piru | 55 comments
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Remember the days H&P was still alive and kicking?
Remember the WarpUP vs. PowerUP wars?
Remember the days of speculation about new hardware and OS?
Here is a massive but entertaining thread from the past. Several personalities from the "camps" of today posted in it. Funnily maybe the biggest player back then - H&P - is somewhat out of the game now, but some of the players remain.
If you read that thread now, remember these issues:
- StormC as a compiler is dead. StormC use GCC now.
- EHF (extended hunk format) is dead, ELF is the future (used in both OS4 and MOS).
- H&P 68k emulation never surfaced.
- WarpUP ramlib crashes were due to opening disk based libraries in LibInit of the library and thus causing recursive ramlib calls and stack overflow, not due to some "anti-warpup" code.
[sidenote: Current Warp3D *still* crash due to these OpenLibrary calls when it open its' sub-lib in LibInit, unless you have ramlib stack patched. There is a easy way to fix these crashes, open the sublibs in LIB_OPEN...]
- There now is a system that run 68K, WOS & PUP apps on PPC only hardware.
I'm not saying that you should be able to predict the future, but some guys seem to have been right more than 50% of the time.
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| blast from the past : Comment 1 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 18-Dec-2002 08:20 GMT | | H&P is as much in the game as say... Titan |
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| blast from the past : Comment 2 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 18-Dec-2002 08:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
You mean Titan working on MotionStudio, RageHard, PapyrusOffice,
BurnIt, AlienNations, etc ? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 3 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Rick Pezzimenti on 18-Dec-2002 08:36 GMT | | What ever happened to Sam Jordan? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 4 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 18-Dec-2002 09:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 3 (Rick Pezzimenti):
As far as I know, he got a life.
It seems you can still join him through email, though. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 5 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 18-Dec-2002 11:13 GMT | Nice to see that some people are as sane and as trusting as today. Hmm.. rather make that INsane and Paranoid. :)
I really like seeing quotes like this one
"I would've just loved to be stuck with a s**t standard. To *really*
believe they could create a PPC only system (the lying bastards) and
that they had the software-engineering skills to make PowerUp work on
it. No Phase 5 never screwed us over at all. "
I have quite good idea what Emmanuel Lassaeur and Teemu Suikki are doing these days, and that Steffen Haeuser sounds awfully familiar too... Allthough it wonders me how the hell he now accepts to be in same company with people that are using those unholy ELF-bineries on their new OS :) |
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| blast from the past : Comment 6 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amorel on 18-Dec-2002 11:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 5 (JoannaK):
He(steffen) uses too many exclamation marks and I guess you know what that means ;-) Anyways, it almost seems like those involved in warpup(or otherwise defending it heavily) just hate the people involved into P5 software and did that stuff for the sole reason to hurt them. It didn`t do any good to the amiga. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 7 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 18-Dec-2002 13:21 GMT | It could be that without the third party PPC library (WarpUP) Escena's or Metabox's PPC accelerator projects would never have been started.
WaprUP was a good thing (tm). |
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| blast from the past : Comment 8 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Leif on 18-Dec-2002 14:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (priest):
Where are they today ? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 9 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 18-Dec-2002 14:26 GMT | In reply to Comment 8 (Leif):
In case you do not know. They did not materialize as end user products (same way as so many other Amiga HW project).
Anyway:
It could be that without the third party PPC library (WarpUP) Escena's or Metabox's PPC accelerator projects would never have been started.
WarpUP was a good thing (tm). |
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| blast from the past : Comment 10 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 18-Dec-2002 14:56 GMT | "ELF is a monster !!!"
Every time I see that I picture poor incompetent Steffen like one of my less able undergraduates, believing that since he is unable to understand something it must be worthless. At first I was very compassionate, but eventually I hardened my heart. Stupid people shouldn't be writing code, we should discourage them earlier to avoid sad cases like Steffen. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 11 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Emeric SH on 18-Dec-2002 15:16 GMT | | Never the less, WarpOS has won the war. And what does it prove? FUD wins? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 12 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Lando on 18-Dec-2002 15:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
Actually Steffen is one of the most talented, competent and intelligent programmers we have left. He has proved himself time and again, and his contribution to the Amiga is immeasurable. Perhaps you do not realise just how much software we would not have on the Amiga had it not been for Steffen?
Steffen's work not only benefitted Amiga users but also developers and even Phase 5 themselves - Until Steffen and (later) Hyperion started porting applications and games to AmigaPPC, there was no software available that made a PowerUP card worth buying. Phase 5 owe a lot of sales to Steffen.
Perhaps, Mr. Anonymous, you could share with us your own Amiga CV, so that we can look in awe at all the contributions you have made to the Amiga community? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 13 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by IT's MEEE!!! on 18-Dec-2002 15:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (priest):
Are you serious??? Neither Scena or Metabox released anything. So what's the deal? all we got was a split in the community. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 14 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 18-Dec-2002 15:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (IT's MEEE!!!):
Yes, I'm serious. (and the split was temporary)
IMHO: Only the fans of HW monopoly think otherwise. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 15 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Gregg on 18-Dec-2002 15:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
I don't know much about Steffen Haeuser's technical skills then or now, but it strikes me that a person might have one or two wrong-headed opinions without being an incurable dunderhead; in extreme cases, a person might even benefit from learning the error of their ways.
Might describe most of the human race, actually.
Not to say one can't enjoy oneself by beating said reformed character over the head with their past mistakes, of course.
Gregg |
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| blast from the past : Comment 16 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by MonkeyOS on 18-Dec-2002 16:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
@Anonymous (217.35.27.234)
While you hide anonymous, beating your meat(joke of one that is), you think you have balls.
What have you done for the Amiga community, castrated wonder of science? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 17 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 18-Dec-2002 17:19 GMT | WarpUP still has bugs today .. and not too few .. however, nobody cares.
Thanks Sam Jordan, thanks Haage&Partner. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 18 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Herwarn on 18-Dec-2002 17:59 GMT | I remember what author of this news was doing in these days. He was
cracking AmigaOS kernel. He is working on MorphOS now. Piru, do you
rembember what was in disassembled Exec by you. You probably don't remember
anything because disassembling Exec is illegal and now you are working on
full-legal-MorphOS. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 19 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 18-Dec-2002 18:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 15 (Gregg):
What the Coward-whom-I'd-like-to-sue-if-I'd-know-who-he-is did ignore is the
fact that what I did not like about "ELF in AmigaOS" and why at that time I
was totally against it. At that time (yes, this was still before the
thread cited) you could not even directly start PowerUP-programs but had to
use something like "runelf"). Programs using PowerUP could not directly - at that time, later there was a LoadSeg-Patch - load AmigaOS Executables. Certain
people even wanted to get "rid of Shared Libraries in favour of ELF Objects,
as the Amiga Shared Library design is outdated". But well, all this stuff
does not really matter anymore now. That certain people always start this
discussion again shows how scared they are of OS 4 I guess... I mean
insulting people like that publicly... no people in their right senses
would do this :)
That's IMHO on the same level like the
guys who smear stuff to walls at public places... in Germany we have a proverb
"Nur Narrenhaende beschmieren Tisch und Waende" - I guess what our anonymous
posted there is a virtual version of that "beschmieren".
I also don't like it if people put me things into the mouth I never said, like
certain people always do. Certain people seem to like putting
people words in the mouth they didn't exactly say...
As to Piru (Assuming this is the same Piru...) who started this flamebait: I
am still waiting on an explanation why he stopped working on Alien Nations,
which he was supposed to do at that time, and did not react to either phone
nor Email nor SMS anymore. If I remember right he even got some hardware
for that purpose, but never produced a single line of code (asides from promises of course... but never actual code...). So if he wants to explain some things
in a post, this would be a more fitting issue I think :)
Steffen Haeuser |
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| blast from the past : Comment 20 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by itix on 18-Dec-2002 18:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 18 (Herwarn):
Well, he fixed some bugs in Exec and enhanced many of its routines. This way users could remove other patches from their system... Not bad after all. Amiga Inc should pay him for his free work. Not to mention all bug fixes and other things were explained in docs.
Btw in case you are interested about exec internals you can find complete documentary from Aminet. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 21 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Herwarn on 18-Dec-2002 18:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (itix):
> Well, he fixed some bugs in Exec and enhanced many of its routines.
One question: Is it was legal? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 22 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by itix on 18-Dec-2002 19:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Herwarn):
Disassembling exec is legal if you don't spread disassembler output. As far as I know nothing illegal happened. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 23 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by turtle on quaaludes on 18-Dec-2002 19:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 21 (Herwarn):
>One question: Is it was legal?
hahahahahaha no it never stop theive hahahahahahahahaha |
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| blast from the past : Comment 24 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 18-Dec-2002 19:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 18 (Herwarn):
> You probably don't remember anything because disassembling Exec is illegal
Not in the EU community. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 25 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 18-Dec-2002 19:26 GMT | In reply to Comment 19 (Steffen Haeuser):
> What the Coward-whom-I'd-like-to-sue-if-I'd-know-who-he-is
Steffen, you'd like to sue too many people, I suggest you to calm down, cause in the end this attitude can only hurt yourself.
> did ignore is the fact that what I did not like about "ELF in AmigaOS" and why > at that time I was totally against it.
That phrase doesn't make much sense... perhaps you missed to say something?
> At that time (yes, this was still before the thread cited) you could not even > directly start PowerUP-programs but had to use something like "runelf").
Well, unless you patch LoadSeg & C. that's the only way to do it, even with WarpOS.
> Programs using PowerUP could not directly - at that time, later there was a
> LoadSeg-Patch - load AmigaOS Executables. Certain people even wanted to get
> "rid of Shared Libraries in favour of ELF Objects, as the Amiga Shared Library > design is outdated".
That makes sense indeed, although I'd not get rid of the old system altogether. A mixture of both would be really welcome. After all, if I'm not mistaken, AOS4 will have it, athough one-way only (ie, user->library and not also user<-library).
As for the rest of your topic, Steffen, try to calm down a bit: you behave exactly like the ones you blame. Show more professionalism, for <your deity>'s sake! |
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| blast from the past : Comment 26 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 18-Dec-2002 19:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 25 (Fabio Alemagna):
> As for the rest of your topic,
Rest of your POST, of course. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 27 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 18-Dec-2002 20:08 GMT | In reply to Comment 25 (Fabio Alemagna):
>Steffen, you'd like to sue too many people, I suggest you to calm down, cause in the end this attitude can only hurt yourself.
And I assume you would just accept if someone calls you "incompetent" or
"stupid" or other insults? Up to now I never sued anybody, but sometimes
I think this would be a good thing to do (of course with these public Boards there is the problem
people can always claim "this was someone else typing on my computer").
I have no problem with people with really strange opinions or such - but
I *do* have a problem with personal insults in the public. I do not have
to accept this !!!
>Well, unless you patch LoadSeg & C. that's the only way to do it, even with WarpOS.
Exactly, and this is why I did not like ppc.library back then... at the start it did
NOT have such a patch.
> Programs using PowerUP could not directly - at that time, later there was a
> > LoadSeg-Patch - load AmigaOS Executables. Certain people even wanted to get
> > "rid of Shared Libraries in favour of ELF Objects, as the Amiga Shared Library > design is outdated".
> That makes sense indeed, although I'd not get rid of the old system altogether. A mixture of both would be really welcome. After all, if
> I'm not mistaken, AOS4 will have it, athough one-way only (ie, user->library and not also user<-library).
Exactly my point - not getting rid of the old system altogether. And it is not needed
either.
> As for the rest of your topic, Steffen, try to calm down a bit: you behave exactly like the ones you blame. Show more professionalism,
> for <your deity>'s sake!
No I don't. I did not call someone an incompetent for example. Is it only me
or is it no widely accepted that you can wildly insult people (anonymously,
of course) on the internet. Wasn't there such a thing which is called
"nettiquette" ?
Do at least TRY to see the difference between discussion and insulting.
Steffen Haeuser |
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| blast from the past : Comment 28 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 18-Dec-2002 20:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 27 (Steffen Haeuser):
Well. One thing is certain.. You have not changed a bit since that thread was written. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 29 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 18-Dec-2002 20:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 19 (Steffen Haeuser):
Steffen Häuser wrote:
"..what I did not like about "ELF in AmigaOS" and why at that time I
was totally against it. At that time (yes, this was still before the
thread cited) you could not even directly start PowerUP-programs but
had to use something like "runelf"). Programs using PowerUP could not
directly - at that time, later there was a LoadSeg-Patch - load
AmigaOS Executables."
Steffen, this is not true. I had a long email conversation with
you back at this time, _after_ the loadsegpatch had been spread,
and you were still 100% against anything that had anything to do with
ELF. You're distorting what happened.
The reason you were so much against ELF had nothing to do with this,
rather it was because you were totally convinced that some people
whom you obviously had very strong feelings about were trying to
kidnap the Amiga community and turn it over to Linux.
Well, this didn't happen, and it seems you're not so much worried
about Linux anymore, but it seems one thing is constant, and that's
your hatred towards these people. I didn't understand this hatred in
1997 and I don't understand it today. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 30 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 18-Dec-2002 20:28 GMT | In reply to Comment 27 (Steffen Haeuser):
> > Steffen, you'd like to sue too many people, I suggest you to calm down,
> > cause in the end this attitude can only hurt yourself.
> And I assume you would just accept if someone calls you "incompetent" or
> "stupid" or other insults?
Saying that you are incompetent is not an insult, it's just an opinion, although it may become an insult if said in a certain way. Saying that you're stupid is indeed an insult, but then you didn't do any better by answering the way you did.
I've been insulted too, but that didn't make me react the way you did. Bear in mind that you won't be able to change the minds of the people that insults you by insulting them back, you'll only achieve the goal of making people who esteem you change their minds.
And let me remind you that I've been treaded unpolitely by you without having insulted you first, or anything like that.
> Well, unless you patch LoadSeg & C. that's the only way to do it, even with
> WarpOS.
> Exactly, and this is why I did not like ppc.library back then... at the start
> it did NOT have such a patch.
Excuse me, Steffen, are you really serious? Are you really saying that the fact that ppc.library didn't patch LoadSeg made you dislike it so much? You DO realize that patching a library's function with one other function that is _already_ implemented (by runelf, or however it's called) is a joke, right? You could have made that program yourself, if you liked. That _cannot_ be a valid reason to discredit a system in favour of another one. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 31 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 18-Dec-2002 21:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (priest):
To what benefit is it that WarpUp may or may not have helped the commencement of two vapor projects which never actually produced anything anyway?
Sounds more like irrelevant than helpful...
(I still remember all the arguments about how WarpUp was the only way to go because it was the only kernel which woudl work on these new boards which were comming soon honest, no really tyhey were, just you evil PowerUp people wait and see! Well, we waited, and we saw!) |
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| blast from the past : Comment 32 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 18-Dec-2002 22:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 30 (Fabio Alemagna):
"well, we don't only talk about unoptimized plain C code here, we talk
about code done by Ralph Schmidt :)"
Back in october 1998 :-) |
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| blast from the past : Comment 33 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 18-Dec-2002 22:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 29 (Johan Rönnblom):
>Steffen, this is not true. I had a long email conversation with
> you back at this time, _after_ the loadsegpatch had been spread,
> and you were still 100% against anything that had anything to do with
> ELF. You're distorting what happened.
You might be aware that Heretic II, Hyperion's first commercial game, actually uses the
ELF Format (due to being compiled with gcc-WarpUP) and I am recommending
this compiler since quite a looong time (long before either OS 4 or MorphOS
ever were even planned). And this compiler uses ELF (even if only as a
"in-between" format). If I would see ELF as evil like you and some other people
claim, how could I use gcc-WarpUP then ? Now, how many years ago was
Heretic II for AmigaOS done ? (And I mean not "released", I mean "done").
So you see, my objections to ELF were tied to
a fitting OS-integration (in case of gcc-WarpUP where elf2exe2 converts
the ELF-Exe into an Amiga-Hunk-Exe this is no problem - and for a future
AmigaOS-like OS - whichever OS it is - OS as in "not only a PPC-Addon-Patch, but
a full OS" - the one who is developing the OS
can simply reimplement LoadSeg() ... complete transparent inclusion also...).
I admit that I had objections against *ppc.library* asides from it's fileformat...
One also has to see that gcc is ways more important these days than it
was 5 years ago (5 years ago IMHO SAS/C and StormC were much more important,
and their 68k versions were both Amiga-Hunk-Format based). And adapting gcc
when using ELF is of course easier to do.
You see hatred from me in my mails ? I only see hatred in the likes of
people like "Anonymous" geared towards me. I am here in self-defense.
Recently I see a lot of hatred in some people related to self-announced
alternative AmigaOSes. Yes, especially towards me. Hatred which sometimes
really goes into the ridiculous. And well, people browsing through whole
5 years of mail to find something against "their hated enemy" shows a lot
about the hatred these people are feeling, right ?
If you still have any problems with me I suggest to discuss it with me by
private email.
Steffen Haeuser |
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| blast from the past : Comment 34 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 18-Dec-2002 22:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 18 (Herwarn):
then i guess Piru did the exec reimpementation in morphos if
its not illegal to do reverse engineering in EU countries :) |
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| blast from the past : Comment 35 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by catohagen on 18-Dec-2002 22:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 34 (catohagen):
=====================================================================
Reverse engineering a program you have legitimately bought and studying or modifying its code is perfectly LEGAL, at least in the European Union, as long as
* You do it only for your personal use or for "educational purposes" (i.e. study)
* You do not use big chunks of the code for applications you SELL
You may for instance completely modify Wordpad for your personal use, as I did, in order to have as defaults *.txt, *.alf and *.asm instead of the almost useless *.doc
You may rip off whatever code you want from whichever application you want in order to use it, modify it, squash it with a mace or throw it away :-)
European Union Directive, (Software Copyright Protection) 14 May 1991
=====================================================================
How is the requirement of 'legitimately bought' ?
Thendic or Ralph has to have a copy of AmigaOS3.1 ? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 36 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 18-Dec-2002 23:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 33 (Steffen Haeuser):
Steffen: Well, as I said, only your attitude to ELF (and maybe Linux)
changed, nothing more..
Anyway, if you're so upset about being "insulted", how come you're so
quick throwing mud at Piru although you obviously don't know any
details?
Then finally, yes, 5 years ago gcc was not quite the obvious choice it
is today. I'm sure in 5 years you'll again tell us that 5 years ago,
the solutions you were bashing back then were not as good as they
later became.. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 37 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 18-Dec-2002 23:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 31 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
Afaik the AmiJoeG3 was not to be used with WarpOS/H&P 68k emu but with PowerOS.
(Beat me, if I'm wrong! :-) |
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| blast from the past : Comment 38 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by ehaines on 19-Dec-2002 00:25 GMT | Well, you know: Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticise.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the vast majority of the
whiny insulting criticisers are (at best) just wannabes who never
actually accomplished anything or produced anything or contributed
to anything. They only spew out their garbage as a means of
bolstering their poor egos. They figure if they can try to tear
down people who actually do good stuff, it will make them feel
better for being, frankly, losers. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 39 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amorel on 19-Dec-2002 03:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 19 (Steffen Haeuser):
Damn, you really are low :-\ |
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| blast from the past : Comment 40 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by amorel on 19-Dec-2002 04:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 33 (Steffen Haeuser):
"You see hatred from me in my mails ?"
Yes I do.
"I am here in self-defense.
Recently I see a lot of hatred in some people related to self-announced
alternative AmigaOSes. Yes, especially towards me."
That sounds paranoid.
"And well, people browsing through whole
5 years of mail to find something against "their hated enemy" "
The purpose was to put things into perspective and show who were right after all. No matter which way you turn it, you and similar minded were wrong. Not just practically. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 41 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 19-Dec-2002 04:30 GMT | In reply to Comment 37 (Anonymous):
IIRC, they were going to use WarpOS/H&P 68k emu. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 42 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 19-Dec-2002 04:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 31 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
So you choose rather not to try to improve things...
IMO: There was a lot to be desired on P5 products price / performance ratio, just as an example. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 43 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoannaK on 19-Dec-2002 06:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 42 (priest):
As a designer making small batch PPC-HW I can tell you that pricing is highly dependant of productions runs. AmigaPPC turbos were marginal product even back then (and those Mototola processors were DAMN expensive) and have never been volume produced goodie.. OK, there is slight chanche now (after SO many years) that these new motherboards will get into decent production numbers, but they are still lot behind X86 scale of economics.
Besides.. it's much easier to critisize than to actually make somethng work. Even after all these years quite few Amiga companies ever got even close to that level of HW innovation as they did. Those years old BPPC+bvisions are still quite OK when compared to alternativies. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 44 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by priest on 19-Dec-2002 07:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 43 (JoannaK):
Still I think it's better to try to improve things than not to.
From users point it's better to work to make sure there will not be monopoly.
(I'm not trying to imply that PowerUP boards were bad thing.)
"(and those Mototola processors were DAMN expensive) "
I think PPC CPUs were not that expensive, but the 060 was !!!!!
IIRC, both Escena and Metabox were trying to do bords without 68k, so ....
"Those years old BPPC+bvisions are still quite OK when compared to alternativies."
What alternatives there were? There was none. What are you comparing to? |
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| blast from the past : Comment 45 of 55 | ANN.lu |
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| blast from the past : Comment 46 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Janne Sirén on 19-Dec-2002 08:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 33 (Steffen Haeuser):
>So you see, my objections to ELF were tied to a fitting OS-integration
Well, only you could know what you were thinking yourself, but a lot of what you said in the thread Piru linked to here, is "bloat" in ELF. You spend considerable time in pointing out how much more bloated ELF is compared to the hunk format and how this makes it so much inferior.
Care to comment on that? Did ELF evolve or...?
If you just changed your mind about ELF as you learned more about it, there is no shame in admitting that. We all change our minds at times. I believe it is this evasiveness that prompts some people to post personal attacks against others - why not just admit you changed your mind and put it to rest?
I don't claim to be any expert on ELF. I just see, as a bystander, a clear difference in the way you communicated in that thread, and the explanations you posted here. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 47 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Emmanuel Lesueur on 19-Dec-2002 08:55 GMT | In reply to Comment 34 (catohagen):
catohagen writes:
> then i guess Piru did the exec reimpementation in morphos if its not
> illegal to do reverse engineering in EU countries :)
The exec reimplementation used in MorphOS was written by Ralph Schmidt
way before Piru had anything to do with MorphOS. What Piru has done
with our exec is implementing new features. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 48 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by does it matter on 19-Dec-2002 11:30 GMT | You lot are wierd.
It's one thing to argue and flame each other about what's currently happening, thats pretty bad in itself. Stop trying to convince everyone they are wrong and you are right.
This however is another thing entirely. You are now inventing or remembering things from ages ago that you can use to start slagging each other off.
Jeez hope you're not all like this in real life. |
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| blast from the past : Comment 49 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 19-Dec-2002 11:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 46 (Janne Sirén):
Janne Siren: As I explained before I am using ELF (since Hyperion Entertainment
started work on Heretic II) since a looong time. I
do not see the purpose of this thread (asides from the hatred of some
people being so big that they reach for every piece of straw to try to
cause damage to my reputation). And no, this is not paranoid. Just check
what sort of things certain people are trying again and again.
What scares me a bit is that for some people insulting others freely on
online forum is no issue anymore. I read the post in question to some
people I know who are not related to the Amiga "Community". To check
if I maybe overreacted. But no, they were even more devastated
like myselves by something like Comment 10. They were
totally shocked by this. Several of them suggested that I should sue
the guy (and I had to explain that it is not so easy to prove who he was,
due to anonymous posting and such). Did the Netiquette die when I did not
look ? I am absolutely convinced on amiga-news.de that comment would have
been removed the same day it was written still. But it is still there,
here...
And the things Hyperion-haters do does not stop with flamebait threads on Forums. They go up
till "informing" business partners and such about "the bad things Hyperion
is doing". I now don't say it's the same people who are writing in this thread,
don't misunderstand me. But that hatred is quite real.
And additionally - if I look at the way MOS-people try
to turn every news-report about OS 4 or Hyperion-games into a "OS 4 vs. MOS"
thread I can only say: There is so much hatred involved there. And if you
still doubt me look for example at one of the recent (or also not recent :) )
posts of Kai9 on amiga-news.de Forum (he's the perfect example). And then tell me again
that these guys don't act out of pure ridiculous hatred. Maybe one should nearly
be sorry for those people... nearly... I do not say everyone interested in MOS
is like that... but you cannot discuss away that there are such people... with
full blind hatred...
About the size of ELF: At that early time I was not the only one who did not know
about the usage of strip. If you check the early executables by ppc.library
*promoters* you will notice the huge size of them - unstripped executables :)
They did not know either :) (Nor care...).
But size was never my main "problem" concerning ELF.
If you want a real ELF-hater, try Jochen Becher (though he is also a very clever
person, despite not liking ELF - till the present day as far as I know).
Steffen Haeuser |
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| blast from the past : Comment 50 of 55 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Dec-2002 12:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 49 (Steffen Haeuser):
> What scares me a bit is that for some people insulting others freely on
> online forum is no issue anymore.
Steffen, please, do a favour to yourself: don't be hypocrit!! YOU insulted me, and now you complain about others insulting you?! This is getting _ridiculus_. |
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| Anonymous, there are 55 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 55] |
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