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[News] Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&PANN.lu
Posted on 19-Dec-2002 17:11 GMT by Darren Eveland64 comments
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A trust fund has been setup for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P regarding the current Amithlon dispute.

The funds will be released when Bernie Meyer is removed from any threat of legal action from H&P/Haral Frank and vice versa, and both sides are allowed to continue separate developments and releases of their respective products. Any licensing issues are the responsibility of each side and are not up for debate in this situation.

It is clear the situation is at an impass with the Amithlon situation. Everyone is getting hurt here.

It has been talked about but nothing has been done, so I have setup a fund that will be dispersed to both sides involved upon successful conclusion. The conclusion being Bernie Meyer is removed from any threat of legal action from H&P/Haral Frank and vice versa, and both sides are allowed to continue separate developments and releases of their respective products. Any licensing issues are the responsibility of each side and are not up for debate in this situation.

Bernie Meyer on one side, and Harald Frank/H&P on the other.

An initial deposit of $100.00 CDN funds is available. As the fund increases I will update the Amithlon mailing lists with the amount available.

When both parties agree to go their separate ways and become disconnected the funds will be released to Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P.

To add money to the fund you must create a pay pal account at www.paypal.com and then send money to trustfund@rogers.com.

I will administer the account and can provide references if you are worried about the money. If you contribute money and nothing ever gets resolved then your funds will be returned to you and you loose nothing.

This is being setup as a goodwill jesture on the part of the Amiga Community and an olive branch for both sides to let the past be the past, go their separate ways, and look to the future.

Darren Eveland (develand@rogers.com)

Trust fund begins today, thursday December 19th, 2002.

I hope everyone has a happy Holiday Season.

Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 1 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by 4pLaY on 19-Dec-2002 16:16 GMT
Im afraid its gonna take a lot of money for that to ever happen! a lot more then can be found in this community.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 2 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Dec-2002 16:36 GMT
It's a good idea idea you have, but I have to agree with 4Play that there is not enough money in Bill Gates' bank account to get an agreement with these parties.

It's a real shame as I was looking forward to buying Bernithlon, but I'd rather wait until hell freezes over before I'd buy Amithlon.

Now if Bernie would like to send me his product on an unmarked CD I'd gladly send him a personal cheque for US$50+p&p ;-)
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 3 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 19-Dec-2002 16:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (4pLaY):
> Im afraid its gonna take a lot of money for that to ever happen! a lot
> more then can be found in this community.

Well, this is the season for Biblical miracles, but I fear this one is beyond even...
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 4 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 19-Dec-2002 16:57 GMT
Give that money to me instead, I'll buy Bernie SRC code and I'll start a new Amithlon....
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 5 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Darren Eveland on 19-Dec-2002 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Darrin):
The best way to contribute is for ALL Amithlon users to band together and setup the money in a single pot. Money talks. I've setup this trust fund with the hope the Amithlon users can make a contribution - as small or large as they can afford - towards the future of Umilator and Amithlon XL.

The current situation is a dead end and I am proposing that a trust fund is the only way out of it.

Any contribution you can make, large or small, will be appreciated. If in the end nothing comes of this, you will get your money back. A $5.00 or $50.00 contribution - whatever you can afford - can make a difference, if we all work together. Lets see if we can set an example here.

Darren Eveland
Trust Fund Administrator
Send your contribution on www.paypal.com to trustfund@rogers.com
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 6 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 19-Dec-2002 17:20 GMT
I get the impression that at least one side in the dispute may disagree that money is the problem.

There are a few other issues here, so this doesnt seem like a practical solution.

Just my 2p's worth! ;)
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 7 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 19-Dec-2002 17:25 GMT
A noble gesture, Darren.

A few of questions, if you don't mind :

1) Have you spoken to any of the parties involved to gauge their interest in this?

2) Can you provide any /bona fides/ or references here?

3) Will you set a target date for agreement or return of funds?

Thanks,

Gregg
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 8 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 19-Dec-2002 17:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Ben):
I'm afraid I have to agree. I really don't see how a trust fund addresses any of the issues at all.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 9 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by TBone on 19-Dec-2002 17:31 GMT
Isn't this what Bernd asked for during mediation? That both sides walk away and be able to sell their own products, and cease fire on all the harassment?

Bernd's already agreed to this, so it's not like he needs to be "enticed" by a fund. The problem AFAIK is that Harald/H&P couldn't agree to cease harassment or clarify who would be sticking their neck out on the IP issue.

http://www.umilator.net/faq.shtml#Q6
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 10 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 19-Dec-2002 17:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darren Eveland):
HammerD is a crazy man, get the toothless tiger that goes by the name Amiga Inc. to settle it, come on, they are still selling AmigaXL through their website, in spite of this "licensing" issue they talked about last year where this whole fiasco started.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 11 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Sheppard on 19-Dec-2002 17:57 GMT
It's all Hoggets' fault!
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 12 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by NihilVor on 19-Dec-2002 18:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (MIKE):
Amiga stoped selling XL and Amiga Writer. It seems that they only had it up there because they reopened Amiga Mall with AM 1.0 products still on the site. That has been corrected.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 13 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Hihi, funny, eh? on 19-Dec-2002 18:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Sheppard):
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0112431

"Babe, a pig raised by sheepdogs, learns to herd sheep with a little help from Farmer Hoggett."

i *LOVE* funny coincidences .. it is one, right? ;)
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 14 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Dec-2002 18:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Bill Hoggett):
> Well, this is the season for Biblical miracles, but I fear this one is beyond
> even...

Nah, that "season" will be over in a few days! Just put a pillow over your head and be quiet for some time. And then we will have about 360 or so more days of non-biblical miracles. That is: business as usual!
;-)
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 15 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Darren Eveland on 19-Dec-2002 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Gregg):
Gregg, I can provide you, privately in e-mail, with references. I don't want my reference to get swamped with emails. But I can tell you he is a well respected person who I did business with. If you are serious about making a contribution then please email me privately at develand@rogers.com.

As for a time frame, I would hope we can raise enough money to make a difference sooner rather than later. If it were to become clear that even money can't solve the issue, then I am afraid all is lost and it would be time to move on.

This is an honest, grassroots effort to get something off the ground. Everyone is bickering and talking about this but not doing anything. People are throwing threats all over the place. Setting up a trust fund with some real money behind it can, I believe, get the concerned parties to a resolution.

Just think if every Amithlon customer contributed just $10.00. That would be enough to settle this.

So let's do something. If we really value this product as a way to continue to use the Amiga OS on fast, cheap, commodity hardware, then lets get started.

I personally believe the Amithlon concept is far to good to just let fade away as "yet another" nail in the coffin of the Amiga market.

Darren Eveland
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 16 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Dec-2002 18:37 GMT
BTW, I think that paypal really has a winning concept. They make money from everywhere, without doning anything more than "being there".

High income - No costs. Is there a way to invest in that company?
;-)
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 17 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 19-Dec-2002 18:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (takemehomegrandma):
>High income - No costs. Is there a way to invest in that company?

Don't think so - I think eBay just bought 'em.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 18 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 19-Dec-2002 18:50 GMT
How about this, I'll *buy* a product from whoever releases a one, legally (some driver package by Harald Frank for Amithlon does not qualify). Do you think people will happily send some money to this fund, knowing that H&P and Harald Frank will get part of it, once they back off? Yeah right.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 19 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by BlameBH on 19-Dec-2002 20:19 GMT
BH is to blame! ;) No .. but hey fools .. don't spend your money on a anonymous account of Mr. Anonymous .. he may fool the fools .. but then, never mind .. the 50$ coupon worked as well ;)
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 20 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by T-Shirt on 19-Dec-2002 20:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (BlameBH):
Anybody received his T-Shirt BTW?

BTW: Sorry for using different nick names all the time .. just can't remember them at the time .. and no .. Bill is a fine guy, just I found this coincidence with the babe movie funny and wanted to share .. no offence against dear Mr. Hoggett meant!!! Sorry, if it should look like it in the first place !!!
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 21 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Dec-2002 20:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (4pLaY):
"Im afraid its gonna take a lot of money for that to ever happen! a
lot more then can be found in this community."

Yes. IIRC Harald was expecting to sell 250,000 copies of Amithlon. If
we assume he would get $5 per copy, then he would presumably want at
least a million dollars to abandon his claims.

I'm afraid this fund is a well intentioned idea but will not work.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 22 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Daave on 19-Dec-2002 21:19 GMT
Is this trust fund serious? I payed for Amithlon, i use Amithlon, I like Amithlon but why the hell should i donate money when i payed for the product and use it, EXPLAIN.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 23 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Daave on 19-Dec-2002 21:26 GMT
With great respect to meyers excellent product but that is what it is A PRODUCT, Haral Frank is a complete wanker and deserves no respect or support from the amiga community.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 24 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 19-Dec-2002 21:37 GMT
This fund is a well-meaning but pretty stupid idea. A few hundred bucks won't resolve the situation.... let Amithlon rest in peace.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 25 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 19-Dec-2002 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (darklite):
Wow did hell freeze over? Are dogs and cats sleeping together? I agree with Darklite, wow. I applaud the idea behind this fund, but realistically I doubt many people would donate money that half of which would go into HF's pocket.

If you were to reconsider and change this to a Bernie legal fund I think you would get more donations.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 26 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Darren Eveland on 19-Dec-2002 23:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (redrumloa):
Hi redmula, its quite clear H&P and Harald will not back down. Buying them out is the only way. Nothing else has worked, not even private moderation.

Just suppose 500 amithlon users gave $10.00 each - that is $5000.00....what would you do if I offered to pay you $5000.00 to part company?

Alot more than if I just ranted and raved on mailing lists and Amiga news sites with postings....right?

Darren
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 27 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Darren Eveland on 19-Dec-2002 23:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Daave):
Hi there,

The trust fund is setup for the future availability of Amithlon products and to allow the parties involved in development a "way out" without resorting to expensive legal means. If you are happy with the current product then don't contribute to the fund.

This is for us users who WANT to see the product continue and think it is important enough to take this grassroots effort to actually *do* something about it.

Darren
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 28 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 19-Dec-2002 23:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darren Eveland):
Do you have official trust fund T-shirts?
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 29 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by TBone on 19-Dec-2002 23:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (redrumloa):
How about a community fund to Amiga Inc so they might purchase Amithlon from Bernd, sue the pants off of all opposition, and contract Bernd to work on the product?

I can dream can't I? Hey man, I'm desparate, Amithlon's a freaking wet dream come true! Anything goes man! Hell, military action! We'll even put the Iraq thing on hold and focus on H&P, I'm writing my congressman right now!

Dangit this whole thing is just a $#%^ crying shame!
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 30 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Ian on 19-Dec-2002 23:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Don Cox):
250,000 copies? I'd be extremely surprised if he could sell that many. I doubt even the existing number of Amiga users comes anywhere near that.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 31 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Anony Maus on 20-Dec-2002 07:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (TBone):
> How about a community fund to Amiga Inc so they might purchase Amithlon from
> Bernd, sue the pants off of all opposition, and contract Bernd to work on the
> product?
No. Why the hell anyone would spend money to a company?

If you want buy Amtithlon with a fund, than, if you can do it, release it under GPL after it is buyed. If you release it under GPL the people who give money to the fund have the copyright. In this way everyone, not only Harald Frank/H&P or Bernd Meyer can develop new Amithlon versions and can sell distributions of it (e.g. with Amiga OS and additional software like a harddisk installer or more drivers) but the changes on Amithlon itselfs must go back to the GPL version. I think this would be a fair solution and in my opinion its the only solution for which a fund is O.K.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 32 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by rotfl on 20-Dec-2002 08:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anony Maus):
Oh yes, GPL .. hmm, and you think anyone can still make money with it then? ;) Also, it's not all you require .. it's NOT done with getting the Amithlon source GPL .. too much 3rd party development involved. Let Amithlon R.I.P. and let's all stop with such stupid things. Is Dave an American btw? Sounds like the idea of an American to me - totally away from reality and with the "I can get anything for money"-mentality .. sadly, THIS doesn't work with us Europeans - might be different with you Americanos.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 33 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by rotfl on 20-Dec-2002 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (rotfl):
Dave -> Darren
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 34 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Anony Maus on 20-Dec-2002 09:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (rotfl):
I personally think the best way would be:

Let Amiga R.I.P. and let's all stop with such stupid things.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 35 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 20-Dec-2002 10:12 GMT
Is it possible to snail mail Bernd a cheque?

Amiga! Rise from the ashes, damn you!

P.S. Go see "The Two Towers", many, many times :))) Wooo Hoooo!!
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 36 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 20-Dec-2002 10:22 GMT
We could mail him a cheque, treating it as a "shareware yet to appear, although of commercial quality" deposit on his sw.

Sure wouldn't want H&P to get even 5 cents.

Amiga! We need to get more creative.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 37 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Anony Maus on 20-Dec-2002 10:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (rotfl):
> Oh yes, GPL .. hmm, and you think anyone can still make money with it
> then? ;)
Yes I think. Why not? One example: Make a good harddisk installer for Amithlon and make a Amithlon distribution. This installer needn't be licensed under GPL.

> Also, it's not all you require .. it's NOT done with getting the Amithlon
> source GPL .. too much 3rd party development involved.
Amiga OS is a big part of third party software. But its not necessary to have Amiga OS under the GPL because someone can sell distributions of Amithlon with a licensed Amiga OS or the Amiga OS from Amiga Forever can be used. I don't know how much other 3rd Party Software is included in Amithlon, but there are solutions:
1) Try to get the 3rd Party Software also to GPL.
2) Replace necessary 3rd Party Software with own GPL solutions.
3) Additional 3rd Party Software can only be included in distributions. This is one way to make money. with a GPLed Amtihlon.

Only one thing is necessary for the GPL version of Amithlon. It must run ;-) More improvements can be added with the Amitlon distribution(s)
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 38 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by rotfl on 20-Dec-2002 11:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Anony Maus):
Please stay away from these drugs and return to reality. You expect third parties to just give away years of hard work under GPL because you think this should be so .. lol ..
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 39 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by rotfl on 20-Dec-2002 11:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (rotfl):
Ah yes, and you generously offer them 10 US$ ;) .. muahaha ..
off, laughing ..
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 40 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by turtle on quaaludes on 20-Dec-2002 11:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (rotfl):
>Sounds like the idea of an American to me

hahahaha you commie bastard so stupid hahahahahaha
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 41 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Anony Maus on 20-Dec-2002 11:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (rotfl):
> You expect third parties to just give away years of hard work under GPL
> because you think this should be so ..
This was a idea to invest the non existing amithlon fund in a better way than just give it to Bernd Meyer and Harald Frank to buy an agreement beetween this two. Btw. Which _years_ of hard work? *lol*
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 42 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 20-Dec-2002 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Ian):
"250,000 copies? I'd be extremely surprised if he could sell that many. I doubt even the existing number of
Amiga users comes anywhere near that."

It doesn't, but that number would be one in twenty of the former Amiga
users who now have PCs, so it is not impossible. The poor marketing
and very high price of Amithlon (Amiga XL) will have greatly reduced
sales, though, to about 1% or less of what they might have been.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 43 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 20-Dec-2002 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Don Cox):
>>The poor marketing and very high price of Amithlon (Amiga XL) will have greatly reduced sales, though, to about 1% or less of what they might have been.

You're not kidding. When Amithlon came out, even though I wasn't a supporter of a x86 Amiga OS, I was an UAE user and decided that I'd give it a whirl... then I saw the asking price and thought "bugger that!!!".
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 44 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Dirty fat fucking pirate on 20-Dec-2002 13:43 GMT
amithlon is a complete rip off for a emulator, that is why i use a pirate version, alt.binaries.warez.amiga is the place if you want amithlon.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 45 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by It's MEEE on 20-Dec-2002 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Dirty fat fucking pirate):
You're an idiot, don't you?
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 46 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 20-Dec-2002 14:03 GMT
I see 2 problmes on this Trus Fund idea..

1) Fund? .. Giving money to make them stop fighting?
2) Trust? .. You must be kidding me.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 47 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by KennyR on 20-Dec-2002 15:49 GMT
Bernie Meyer deserves all he gets, the stupid fucking lame ass amiga pirate, DIE YOU CUNT,

fuck Meyer in his punk ass then cum in his stupid face.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 48 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Thellenbow on 20-Dec-2002 17:41 GMT
I can see having a fund for Bernie but not for H&P. H&P are the problem and Bernie is the one in trouble. H&P are still selling the product and Bernie is not getting a dime out of it.
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 49 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by KennyR on 20-Dec-2002 17:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (KennyR):
I'd just like to tell everyone that comment 47 was NOT made by me. Moderator, please remove that comment!
Trust fund for Bernie Meyer and Harald Frank/H&P : Comment 50 of 64ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 20-Dec-2002 18:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (KennyR):
>>I'd just like to tell everyone that comment 47 was NOT made by me. Moderator, please remove that comment!

If it's any consolation Kenny, I'm sure that everyone that's read your posts on Amiga.org (or anywhere else come to that) knew that you hadn't posted it.
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