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[Rant] Nothing from Amiga Club !!!ANN.lu
Posted on 23-Dec-2002 18:19 GMT by Hyun Koo48 comments
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Hello guys, I have been an Amiga user since 1989 and I have joined the Amiga Club (end of July) to support their initiative. And guess what? Thus far I haven't receive neither the discount coupon nor the t-shirt... It is just me or others in the Amiga community are having this similar problem??? I e-mailed Amiga, but no response thus far...
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 1 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 23-Dec-2002 17:52 GMT
I've haven't received anything either (apart from a news email), but I haven't tried to contact them yet. I'm waiting until my AmigaOne XE arrives so that I can claim my $50 back. If they don't want to answer me then..... <growl!!!!> ;-)
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 2 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Prang on 23-Dec-2002 18:42 GMT
I don't worry about it until OS4 starts shipping. Until there is a product to receive the discount for, there is no discount. If things are going anywhere near to how they planned then they are probably damn busy right now.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 3 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by 4pLaY on 23-Dec-2002 18:52 GMT
Hmm i mailed them about this issue some weeks ago and got:
"We are working through current issues to get this resolved ASAP. Thanks for
your patience and enquiry."
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 4 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 19:16 GMT
Hey, you can't reply directly to me, but if anyone wants to sell their Amiga Club membership for $5 bucks then post a response here with your contact information.
I will buy it, or the same goes with your PartyPack, I'd be glad to....my reasoning is it 'might' be worth something, and I'd like to collect a few of these and try to collect.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 5 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 23-Dec-2002 19:21 GMT
shht, don't say that. People will call you a troll for speaking the truth!
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 6 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Xeyes on 23-Dec-2002 19:28 GMT
Imagine that. Amiga hasn't followed through with their promised delivery.
Golly gee whiz.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 7 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 23-Dec-2002 19:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (anonymous):
I think JoannaK is trying to sell her SDK coupon for a discount - try contacting her. Of course, I don't think she'll actually sell it because then she'll have one less thing to whine about ;-)
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 8 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Xeyes on 23-Dec-2002 19:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (anonymous):
> Hey, you can't reply directly to me, but if anyone wants to sell their Amiga > Club membership for $5 bucks then post a response here with your contact
> information.
> I will buy it, or the same goes with your PartyPack, I'd be glad to....my
> reasoning is it 'might' be worth something, and I'd like to collect a few of > these and try to collect.
It would be hilarious if this were posted by Bill McEwen!
ROFL!!!!
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 9 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 23-Dec-2002 20:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (anonymous):
Hmm Vesalia was selling shrink-wrapped Party-Packs (incl. coupon) in Aachen
for (AFAIR) 20 Euro ......
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 10 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 23-Dec-2002 20:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Darrin):
> I've haven't received anything either (apart from a news email), but I
> haven't tried to contact them yet. I'm waiting until my AmigaOne XE arrives
> so that I can claim my $50 back. If they don't want to answer me then.....
> <growl!!!!> ;-)
I really think that you should clear this issue with the dealer from who you purchase your system; it looks like Amiga Inc has *not* cleared this issue with the dealers themselves, so don't expect *the dealers* to give you any kind of discounts.
The (only remaining) Swedish Amiga dealer, GGS Data (www.ggsdata.se), has this text on their webpage regarding the coupon issue:
"Till dig som har olika varianter av rabattkuponger från Amiga Inc; Vi ger ingen direkt ersättning för sådan kupong i samband med köp. Vi erbjuder däremot att ta emot kupong i samband med köp, och vidarebefordra dessa till Amiga Inc och så fort ersättning/rabatt kommit oss tillhanda på vårt konto betalar vi ut motsvarande belopp direkt till dig."
Amateur translation:
"To those of you who has different kinds of discount coupons from Amiga Inc; We do not give you any direct discount [money back] in conjunction with purchase. We do however offer you a possibilty to send in your coupons to us when you place your order, and we will then forward those to Amiga Inc and the same moment as we get a payback/discount sent to us we will pay the same amount to you."
It looks like at least GGS Data tries to clean up Amiga Inc's front porch. An éloge to them! BTW, have *you* [swedes] ordered anything from GGS Data recently?
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 11 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 23-Dec-2002 20:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (takemehomegrandma):
I've always assumed that I'd just send my receipt for an AmigaOne board to Amiga Inc with my coupon (or just my name should do) and they'll send me a personal cheque back for $50.
I installed a wireless network in my house last month and had to send the bar codes off the product boxes plus my receipts to the manufacture to get $30, $20, $20 and $20 back (I had to send the receipts/bar codes to 3 different address depending on the product so I couldn't stuff them into one envelope!!!).
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 12 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 23-Dec-2002 20:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (takemehomegrandma):
yes, ordered lots.
Last I heard, ggsdata(.se), gentle eye(.fi) and eyetech(.uk) had some sort of agreement that goes something like this:
They will not give you a discount right there, but when A Inc delivers the discount to them, they will forward it to you.
This way, they won't get in trouble if amiga doesn't come through.
Note here, though: this is how I understood it..
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 13 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 23-Dec-2002 21:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Darrin):
Darrin said,
> I've always assumed that I'd just send my receipt for an AmigaOne
> board to Amiga Inc with my coupon (or just my name should do) and
> they'll send me a personal cheque back for $50.
Hm. To play the other side of the coin, I have to admit I expected things to be more organized; IIRC, the language used was always "coupon" or "offer" as opposed to rebate. Of course, to acquire the *actual* coupon, you were supposed to mail freeoffer@amiga.com or somesuch, with your PartyPack invoice number- meaning you were meant to go through the same hassle as a rebate, but up-front, so you didn't need the extra $100 in your pocket to float. (How/whether this works for resold PartyPacks is beyond me, as the number was on the Airborne Express packing slip?)
Now that Eyetech is offering OS4 for free when released with the current hardware shipments, and the AmigaOne/OS4 is looking more and more like a package deal... anyone know if that means the "Free OS4" option is being picked for you, for PartyPack folk?
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 14 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 23-Dec-2002 21:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Darrin):
This all has been discussed earlier way many times so it's amazing certain peoples can't see light ny now... For example: while that Personal cheque thing might work in in single country it's really quite pointless when most clients are overseas. Cashing a cheque would cost well over 10 Euros in bank chrges alone (closer to 20) then there are sending papers and other goodes back/forth overseas which involves Customs offices and other bureocrats.
And no.. nobody did send any offer of my partyPack. It was also sold on local Users group web boards (along my SB live audio card) ... And now, after seeing that dumping done by GGs.data and german resallers (1/10 to 1/20 of real price) I see how little real value even them belive it has.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 15 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 23-Dec-2002 22:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (JoannaK):
For customers that live outside the USA, Amiga Inc could still send them cheques in their local currency. Banks in the USA can provide this service. Alternatively, Amiga Inc can credit the money back to the customers' credit cards (if credit cards were used to purchase the coupon/membership/whatever it is).
So now that you've offloaded your party-pack, does that mean you promise to stop bringing it up every thread? ;-)
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 16 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2002 22:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Darrin):
You mentioned it first :)
I have hoped that they one day learned enough to avoid making new similar mistakes and would fix old ones. But so far, it has not looked too good. But, pehaps next year will be better to all of us.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 17 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 23-Dec-2002 23:14 GMT
Business reasonability.....
consumers shouldn't have to battle wits with each other over a product by some other party.
A company should be a great deal more ..... respective..... professional.... etc..
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 18 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Onetrack on 23-Dec-2002 23:48 GMT
Yep, I bought coupon # 268 IIRC, nothings ever been sent, although I did get a couple emails from webmaster@amiga.com describing the coupon offer..
heres a clip;
Welcome and thank you for joining over a thousand of your friends and
becoming founding members of the Amiga Club. We really need to come up with a better name for the club.
You will all be receiving in the coming weeks, your Shirt and Coupons. They will be delivered directly to your address that you gave us when you joined.
Everything will ship shortly after the logo and shirt design has been
selected.
-----------
This was sent to me August 10th, 2002 and was the last email/snail mail delivery I recieved from them.
So yah.. 50 bux is 50 bux.. I would have been able to get a nice stick of ram or pay the shipping on a board for that but as yet, nothing at all. I'd be happy with a t-shirt, but at the moment all I have is 50 less dollars in my bank account.. I should have gone and watched the rugby down at the local pub instead.
Merry Xmas all..
One
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 19 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by The Slash on 24-Dec-2002 01:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Onetrack):
I have got the same mails as all other here, but it's strange that Amiga Inc.
write something about it (or have they, have I missed some msgs), they can atleast
write a short note to calm us down... =)
I read that one have atleast got an answer from AInc, it's more that I have got
from them, I did write it to the Man himself (Bill). Why don't have a standard
letter, for us desperate people, to show that they care...
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 20 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 24-Dec-2002 02:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (The Slash):
Well.. Do they care? Have they ever cared?
I have herad and read all those big speeches and annoucements, but I have not seen them actually much caring about us, execpt of course when they have had need for some quick temporary loan... :)
All in all .. Reminds me a lot about that Ambassador Londo Molari on beginning of Babylon-5 series... Not to mention about that Deal he made cause he wanted 'restore greatness of Centauri Prime'
(ah by the way, anon message #16 on this thread was obviously mine.,. I just forget to type my name into box :-)
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 21 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Dec-2002 03:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (JoannaK):
"Big Shark, Pretty Shark."
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 22 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 24-Dec-2002 03:51 GMT
>It is just me or others in the Amiga community are
>having this similar problem???
Me too. No worthless coupon, no T-shirt, no nothing. Been trying to get my money back... no reply. Even if I did get a coupon, I've been told by retailers that they won't redeem it - I'd have to buy an A1/OS4 then send the reciept to Amiga Inc. at which time they send me a cheque for $50. Yea Right. Suuure they will. Or maybe they won't just "lose" the reciept and then not reply to emails or answer the phone.
Anyway, well done Amiga Inc. You managed to screw us all one last time :-)
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 23 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 24-Dec-2002 05:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Lando):
If Amiga Inc has faulted on delivering goods within the FTC mandated period, you can get some sort of satisfaction by the below URL:
https://rn.ftc.gov/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01
Dammy
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 24 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Wilhelm` on 24-Dec-2002 05:44 GMT
It seems as if everthing may hinge on OS4 being released. This brings up the question of how long did it actually take to create OS1 way back in 1985? Why is it taking so long in comparision for OS4. Is the new software so much more complicated? Is the new hardware so much more difficult to program for? Is there just one or 2 programmers compared to back then? Who the heck >KNOWS< the answer and can reasonably reply?
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 25 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 24-Dec-2002 06:32 GMT
>>support their initiative.
support aros or morphos instead. you might get back something
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 26 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 24-Dec-2002 08:37 GMT
Multicurrency problems are less on a business scale, services like www.pacnetservices.com can handle things.
People who paid by credit card can be refunded as their discount.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 27 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Dec-2002 12:09 GMT
I have to admit.... MorphOS is looking more and more attractive.
I am assuming my 50 bux went to Amiga Inc Charity box which is total bullshit.
I love my classic hardware but if these guys don't deliver or don't refund me, I am NEVER supporting this particular market again.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 28 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by ehaines on 24-Dec-2002 16:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous):
I'm finding it to be a pretty good rule of thumb not to deal with computer
companies run by people named Bill. (That goes for G., M., and B.)
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 29 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 24-Dec-2002 16:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Wilhelm`):
Let's see:
Exec was created before Commodore bought the Amiga. Time to design, 12 months I'd guestimate.
Intuition, according to RJ Michal was done in 6 weeks.
Workbench was created for the CAOS before Commodore bought the Amiga. CAOS was to be the OS for the Commodore 65 project (which was canned once Amiga was bought, and the name applied to a re-done C64 later on).
The rest of the OS was licensed from various parties.
Total time to create 1.0....
under a year and a half, including all porting work.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 30 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by ne_one on 24-Dec-2002 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Nathaniel Downes):
Nathaniel Downes writes:
>Exec was created before Commodore bought the
>Amiga. Time to design, 12 months I'd guestimate.
>Intuition, according to RJ Michal was done in 6 weeks.
>Workbench was created for the CAOS before Commodore
>bought the Amiga.
>The rest of the OS was licensed from various parties.
>Total time to create 1.0....
>under a year and a half, including all porting work.
Before anyone starts doing project timelining comparisons, take into consideration the feature set. Comparing apples to oranges is meaningless. If you had the privilege of buying a system equipped with 1.0 you will remember that it was far from refined.
As others have stated, if you've been able to wait 10 years for a substantial upgrade, measuring time in months is silly.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 31 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 24-Dec-2002 17:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Nathaniel Downes):
Seems a reasonable analysis, Nate, but I think there are at least two good reasons why we could expect AmigaOS 4.0 to take longer :
1) More stuff. A heck of a lot has been added to the Amiga OS since it's first incarnation, increasing the scope if not the complexity of all changes and testing.
2) It's almost always quicker to start from scratch than to refurbish and enhance. Granted, v 1.0 wasn't exactly "from scratch" (TripOS and co.), but certainly far fewer existing elements to get in the way.
I'm not defending the "delay", of course; the inability (or reluctance) to estimate and communicate a realistic timescale for AmigaOS 4.0 delivery is still deplorable.
Gregg
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 32 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 24-Dec-2002 18:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Gregg):
I didn't say that this is the amount of time it would take to do AmigaOS 4.0 did I? The man asked how long it took to make AmigaOS 1.0 only.
AmigaOS 1.0 was very simple, and they had the advantage of a large resource of 68k code to draw on. Hyperion, by comparison for AmigaOS 4.0, appears to be doing far more original work. This gives me a timeline in the scheme of 3-5 years before it's up to "1.0" levels, depending on how debugged it is and motivation of the coders. AOS 1.0 was very buggy, and done by coders highly motivated (as they owned the company). DUnno about AOS4.0's efforts.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 33 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Mic on 24-Dec-2002 18:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (cheesegrate):
I am sick of the unprofessional management of Amiga Inc as well as Genesi.
All prejudices aside out of the three Bills, who appears most professional?
I shall probably be forced to suffer at the hands of a more professional fraudster instead as I have to settle for windows.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 34 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 24-Dec-2002 19:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Nate Downes):
Nate : Don't get ratty - I was adding to, not arguing, your estimate. Shall we agree to agree?
I think your 3-5 year estimate is at the very root of all AI's (and consequently Hyperion's) troubles with AOS 4.0; if they had said up front "PPC (or even x86) AOS in 3 years or so" there would have been a general collapse of interest in all things Amiga (both "classic" and DE), but that in no way excuses the project management farce that has ensued.
In this context, the failure to build on the lead time of what is now MorphOS as AOS4, seems good reason for the anger and frustration that is aimed at AI these days.
And a Merry "Bah! Humbug!" to all.
Gregg
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 35 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 24-Dec-2002 21:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Gregg):
The thing is, the original AOS4.0 as presented would have taken only 8-months to do. Much like MacOS, rather than re-impliment everything into PPC, just incorporate the entire OS on top of an emulator built into a new kernel that runs under Exec. Then, over time, replace the components. Their need to add new features and move more code to PPC than needs to be, new library and IPC systems, etc. is the root of the problem. MorphOS actually took the former approach, using the Amiga's own ROM on Alphas and early Beta's. Now they've re-implimented everything, and you've got a solid OS w/ a bright future beyond the classic Amiga market. By moving the kernel to underneath Exec, you can add things like memory protection and thread support without a serious re-write.
Hyperion, for all of their good intentions, took a much more difficult approach. I see a comparison to the various BeOS projects here. OpenBeOS uses the actual beOS and is replacing modules one-at-a-time while most of the others are hacking a non-Be-like kernel to emulate, basically doing whole-paper approach.
Of course, Hyperion could pull it off, and create a great OS. But the time needed does not justify the effort put into it and schism to the community. Imagine how we would be if the AOS4 team was put to MorphOS, to develop the ABox. We would have had this a good 6 months ago, and been well underway to the Q-Box, which is the more exciting prospect in my opinion.
We don't need 100% compatability. Even AOS wasn't 100% compatable with previous revisions. Think how many apps were broken from 1.3 to 2.0 or even more recently, how many apps don't handle 3.9 without throwing a tantrum. MorphOS settled for 90% compatability, and got it. It's the last 10%, the undocumented, unorthodox or plain strange API's that are the issue no matter what you're emulating. I feel that Hyperion is being too strict, and it will cause some serious delays yet to come.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 36 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by DDJ on 24-Dec-2002 21:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Nathaniel Downes):
Very good point.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 37 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Dec-2002 22:45 GMT
Is it all gonna be worth the wait ?
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 38 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Dec-2002 23:38 GMT
You should know by now not to trust Amino...
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 39 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Multiview on 25-Dec-2002 01:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Nathaniel Downes):
Nate.... don't you actually work there at the Amiga Club? If you do.. then that explains why no one has gotten anything yet. How about sending those T-Shirts and those coupons out to the people who paid?
While your at it, Bauglir could use his PPC too. ;)
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 40 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Nacho on 25-Dec-2002 08:59 GMT
Amiga Inc. is bankrupt. Didn't you notice? Or where are the new phone numbers and address. Amiga Inc. is now "operated" from McEwen's living room AFAIK. What do you expect? Him actually giving those dumbasses back their 50 US$? Dream on, it was a cheap credit for him and he won't pay back IMHO. Stupid enough who participated in that action ..
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 41 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Dec-2002 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Nacho):
If they were, there would be official notice by now - thats nothing one can hide. Move along troll.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 42 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Frans on 25-Dec-2002 15:25 GMT
Still, it would be nice to read some sort of Christmas Executive Update or at least best wishes from Amiga... I think...
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 43 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by marktime on 26-Dec-2002 01:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Gregg):
Quote:
Seems a reasonable analysis, Nate, but I think there are at least two good reasons why we could expect AmigaOS 4.0 to take longer :

(Reasons clipped)

-----------------
I think we can expect it to take longer with certainty, because it has already taken longer.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 44 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 26-Dec-2002 04:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (marktime):
"I think we can expect it to take longer with certainty, because it has already taken longer."

And will take longer still. With all these exciting talks of new innovative features like SMP support etc.. it'll take even longer to reach publicly demoable state and thus much longer to be on more or less stable for Sales to begin. Ah well.. Reminds me of certain few years old system.. Boxer it was? It too got better and better each year...
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 45 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 26-Dec-2002 19:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (JoannaK):
Scary part is, I know how easy this is to fall into. It's a trap. I fell into it with Eddas, kept re-inventing areas when a sudden inspiration made me go over everything I'd made. End result, I fell so far behind I have to accept that I cannot deliver it anytime soon, having wasted my savings on components that I long scrapped. As a result, I've learned humility and realized how the market has shifted.

Will I finish Eddas one day? Sure. But I am taking 2003 off from developing it. On Jan 1st, 2004, I shall re-open the goals file, and see what I have then. Till then, I will be making my way as a retailer.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 46 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Skyraker on 28-Dec-2002 22:45 GMT
It's your own bloody fault for buying a coupon in the first place, I might or might not buy an A1 when they finally get their shit together, the dealers will get my money not AInc... Ainc can kiss my big fat hairy ass.
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 47 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by bill mcgonad on 31-Dec-2002 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (JoannaK):
will you be my cream pie?
Nothing from Amiga Club !!! : Comment 48 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by toby goodhead on 31-Dec-2002 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Skyraker):
are you still blowing goats?
Anonymous, there are 48 items in your selection
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