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[News] AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1ANN.lu
Posted on 13-Jan-2003 20:20 GMT by pixie (Edited on 2003-01-13 21:37:27 GMT by Christophe Decanini)492 comments
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These are fresh news!! On January 13th, Amiga at their site has released the AmigaOS Feature list [(info from Don Cox)beware:PDF file that may crash AmigaOS] explaining us a bit further about the Next Generation OS.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 1 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 13-Jan-2003 19:25 GMT
Hey ! You were faster than me ;)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 2 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 13-Jan-2003 19:28 GMT
Uhm the PHP session id is different.
Does it expire ?
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 3 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 13-Jan-2003 19:32 GMT
It would have to happen someday... ;)

When I copy the link I was afraid that this could happen, so I'd put the homelink, but probably you should delete this thread so ppl don't get stuck with it...

pixie- no time to write my sig <sigh>
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 4 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 13-Jan-2003 19:34 GMT
Don't try to view it on an Amiga.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 5 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 13-Jan-2003 19:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (pixie):
Normally, a session ID is used to uniquely identify each surfer. Therefore, these should be removed any time you share the URL with someone else.

(Amiga Inc's server seems to be hit fairly hard, by the way, I get ridiculously low transfer rates.)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 6 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 13-Jan-2003 19:40 GMT
Hmmm, you need to have AmigaOS4 to view the
AmigaOS4 feature list... That is not a
good idea. ;) How complicated could a feature
list be that it won't work on APDF which shows
almost everything I have tried on it? I think
the feature list should be posted as html too...
Great to see new things happening though. I
am really looking forward to seeing OS4. :)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 7 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 13-Jan-2003 19:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Christian Kemp):
Thank you for editing it Christian, didn't know that! :)

My only hope is that this thread doesn't starts stirring up with flames, and we could actually have some further explanation about the more technical parts of it, politely as it should be...
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 8 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 13-Jan-2003 19:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Don Cox):
*Sigh*

This is an accident. The file uploaded to the Amiga site is the wrong
version. An Amiga friendly PDF version exists. I should know I have
it. Mail me if you want a copy. (138k)

Mikey C
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 9 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Ray A. Akey on 13-Jan-2003 19:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Kelly Samel):
Man, news travels fast. :)

Anyways..

Mr. Hermans noted that there might be a problem with some older Amiga PDF viewers. However, we wanted to post it "as is" in order to get the document out to people ASAP.

Now that it has been posted, I am also converting the complete document to HTML and adding a link to it, so that those who cannot view PDF documents can read it.

I do not have an ETA on when this will be finished, but hang tight if you don't have a PDA viewer. It _should_ be done sometime today.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 10 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 13-Jan-2003 19:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Ray A. Akey):
"Mr. Hermans noted that there might be a problem with some older Amiga PDF viewers. However, we
wanted to post it "as is" in order to get the document out to people
ASAP."

I'm using the latest version of APDF, not an old one.

IMO files should be checked on an Amiga before you post them on the
site (which is aimed at Amiga users).

Perhaps you could post the version that Mike has.

PDF files generated by Pagestream work OK on APDF.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 11 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 13-Jan-2003 19:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Ray A. Akey):
If you want, post the link here in the comments so that one of the moderators can fix add it (Otherwise, I might only be able to do it tomorrow - I'm heading to bed now).

At half a meg for the PDF, I hope you have some spare bandwidth. :)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 12 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 13-Jan-2003 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (pixie):
"My only hope is that this thread doesn't starts stirring up with flames, and we could actually have some further explanation about the more technical parts of it, politely as it should be... "

I hope so. Hyperion developers are welcome to answer upcoming technical questions :)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 13 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Ryu on 13-Jan-2003 20:13 GMT
<A HREF=http://www.ryusworld.webhop.net/OS4Features/features.html>Features</A>Converted on my amiga :-)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 14 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Ryu on 13-Jan-2003 20:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Ryu):
damn forgot the quotes <A HREF="http://www.ryusworld.webhop.net/OS4Features/features.html">Features</A>
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 15 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 13-Jan-2003 20:19 GMT
altivec support.. sounds VERY nice.. I wonder to what extent it is supported.. ie, will the OS take advantage of the capability to shuffle large amounts of data.. and will it be used for FP calculations?
Also very nice to hear that there is limited SMP support. That is something that for me is very interesting.

Nice to finally see something more substantial on OS4.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 16 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 13-Jan-2003 20:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Christophe Decanini):
Updated dos.library is real good news.. FFS2 and Roadshow too.. But

I noticed following are missing from list..
- Java
- Arexx
- Turboprint
- Dopus
And if I read right Mui is unregged ..

I know they have plans on using years old 68k Arexx but what about the others.. Like that Dopus thingy. I may be wrong but I though it was supposed to be part of OS4.0 ???
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 17 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 13-Jan-2003 20:25 GMT
If you come to [http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/access_simple_form.html] you can then translate this pdf directly from them, you only have to put the location [http://os.amiga.com/os4/features.pdf] on it and that's it... if that doesn't help try this quick hack I made @
[http://savoc.tripod.com/fl.txt]

or a bit more organized & easier to read @
[http://savoc.tripod.com/fl.htm]

WARNING! This last file was made using MS technolgy, although no animals were harmed! ;)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 18 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 13-Jan-2003 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (JoannaK):
>And if I read right Mui is unregged ..yep, its been known for a while ? I see no need to provide it registred, ifyou like and use mui alot, you have a keyfile already ? why pay twice....
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 19 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 13-Jan-2003 20:38 GMT
One thing I like the most on Windows XP is the Hibernation facility... now that resource tracking is present on OS4, could this mean we could have such function on OS4!?
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 20 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 13-Jan-2003 20:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Kelly Samel):
The file was tested on APDF 1.3 and Ghostscript 650, both 68K and seemed to work fine.

Apparently it does not work on the WarpOS versions.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 21 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Ryu on 13-Jan-2003 20:56 GMT
can someone tell me where i went wrong on posting those url's above? because I cant see my error
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 22 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 13-Jan-2003 21:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Ryu):
No URL allowed in comments.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 23 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 13-Jan-2003 21:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (catohagen):
Only some of us have had no working Amiga in years.. And now have to pay extra for obvious utilities not to mention extra wirk involved due this... Ah well. It's one way to make product look cheaper. Just like those Hyperion OS 3.X kits.. unregged shareware.. :(

But what happened to Dopus?
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 24 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Jack Me on 13-Jan-2003 21:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (JoannaK):
"Just like those Hyperion OS 3.X kits.. unregged shareware.. :("

What are you talking about?
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 25 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jan-2003 21:07 GMT
I whish they wouldn't use InstallerNG. This is one extremely unstable program. I can understand that Morphos uses InstallerNG (because they have no choice other than a completely new development ;) but in the case of Amiga Inc, why don't they continue to use Installer ? It may not look fancy but at least it gets the job donw and doesn't crash, hang, fail.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 26 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Kamel on 13-Jan-2003 21:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Ray A. Akey):
Hi

First thanks for the post, but :
> to save download time, diagrams have not been included.

I would really appreciate if you could put the version with the diagrams beside the others :)

Is it something possible ?

Thanks

Amiga Rules :)

kml
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 27 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 13-Jan-2003 21:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
last time i tryed installing InstallerNG, my whole c: dir was deleted..:(dunno what happened...:)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 28 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by derf on 13-Jan-2003 21:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (JoannaK):
call me silly, but im sure arexx was in AOS3.9 BB2.

as to the others, why dont you buy them if you want them ? you dont get everything for free thesedays, and some people dont want extra cost added for something they wont use.

the only absentee is DOpus, but for all we know that will be in AOS 4.1.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 29 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by ece on 13-Jan-2003 21:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
Don´t u think that someone at the Hyperion team took a close look at the source-code? It´s pretty darn stupid to implement something in your work with no idea of what it is.
just a thought, flame me if u want.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 30 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jan-2003 21:24 GMT
The "application.library" sounds cool. Here is a suggestion for developers, if not yet implemented: add ways and means to register applications for certain file types. For example, the browser, during installation or at run-time, could register itself via "application.library" as application of "class webbrowser". "application.library" could then provide standard functions like OpenDocument(name, class) etc. to open content in the correct application. For example, to show a web page, programs could then use application.library:OpenDocument(file, "webbrowser").
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 31 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 13-Jan-2003 21:27 GMT
The list is impressive and has a LOT of interesting stuff. Great read. New Intuition features look
great. Can only imagine what can be done with that ;-)

It's also good to see the small touches to increase efficiency all the way throughout . Impressive.

The MUI being unregistered has been known for quite a while. Unless the default setup is pig ugly,
it don't bother me. Good to have some sort of consistence throughout the OS. I doubt I
would change it much, just for this reason.
( But I bought MUI years ago and have the keyfile lying around if I should need to :-P.... )
.
SlimJim
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 32 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jan-2003 21:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (ece):
> Don´t u think that someone at the Hyperion team took a close look at the source-code?

My experience is that you can't fix poorly designed programs by looking at the code. InstallerNG has been around for years and is still unusable. I can only assume that the code is a mess, otherwise someone would already have fixed it (isn't it an open source project at SourceForge ?).
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 33 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jan-2003 21:38 GMT
IBrowse: "Hundreds of other minor and major bug fixes and [...] to improve compatibility with broken sites"

Black humour or new stragetgy ? If you can't beat them, declare the web sites as broken ?
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 34 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 13-Jan-2003 21:42 GMT
Wow! I am seriously impressed by this featurelist. I cannot wait to start developing for this system! I am now, officially, so excited i could almost burst :)(this is not blind cheerleading; *IF* OS4 turns out to be as this featurelist describes, it is pretty much exactly what i've wanted for years...)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 35 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 13-Jan-2003 21:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Peter Gordon):
@Peter Gordon

<while waiting for x86Linux+KDE to swap back an old workspace from the cache, meanwhile stopping the entire system in its tracks>

Yes it's looking very good. Never programmed on the Amiga. Think I'll try to do that when this arrives.
.
SlimJim
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 36 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Denis Troller on 13-Jan-2003 21:55 GMT
All of this seems good to me. Anyway, more in one evening than in several months :)

I like the application Library (hell, I like much more than only that :)).
I remember something called like this from a DevCon book about future AmigaOIS extensions (back in the time when Commodore had plans for it). But it was way beyond this. it provided a framework for Intuition based applications (by taking care of the tedious allocating/opening/closing resources, and leaving only handlers for the programmer to write). Pretty much a descriptive way to build applications with only the right amount of code. Wonder if this idea could be reconsidered in the future...

Anyway, thanks for the information. This has been severely missed in the past months (years ? :)).
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 37 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 13-Jan-2003 22:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (ece):
cant wait to play with OS4 on my miggy1 :)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 38 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Andreas Wolf on 13-Jan-2003 22:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
> isn't it an open source project at SourceForge ?

It's not.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 39 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Linus G on 13-Jan-2003 22:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (JoannaK):
By now, you should have read several times( at the AOS4 mailinglist) that DOpus will not be a part of AOS4.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 40 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Sancho on 13-Jan-2003 22:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (SlimJim):
What the hey...! This damn PDF doesn't load. Oh wait must be my unregistered RAM. *runs out to the corner drug store for a registered one*
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 41 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Tom on 13-Jan-2003 22:21 GMT
A proper working browser like Mozilla/Opera would be nice instead of Ibrowse, which imo is really bad browser.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 42 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Kowalczyk on 13-Jan-2003 22:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
Some bugs take time to find, but are usually related to stray pointers overwriting areas of memory they shouldn't be. This leads to unstable behaviour. Enforcer and Mungwall type tools are a great help in hunting down these types of problems, but it sometimes takes a lot of time and patience. Any decent software engineer with time and patience can find the bugs without having to re-engineer the entire program....unless it takes less time to write the program from scratch. I'm sure they didn't have to re-invent the wheel, or if they did, they could have used it as a reference for what not to do.... ;) "Looking" at the code is a good start though as sometimes the obvious jumps right out at you.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 43 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 13-Jan-2003 22:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Linus G):
I have not readed in month or so.. it was so boring, all hype and no real info.

But if it's no longer part of OS4 then it's ok, cause I have seen no need for it before. It was just another cheap marketting trick from Hermans.. :)
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 44 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by bakedbeans on 13-Jan-2003 22:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Tom):
"A proper working browser like Mozilla/Opera would be nice instead of Ibrowse, which imo is really bad browser."

If you want to do it , go for it ;) otherwise stop complaining.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 45 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Paul H on 13-Jan-2003 22:28 GMT
This is good news, especially the memory management and resource tracking. Can't wait to get stuck into some development work with it.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 46 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jan-2003 22:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Andreas Wolf):
>> isn't it an open source project at SourceForge ?
>It's not.

Sorry, you are right. It's a project at SourceForge and declared as beeing under the GNU GPL but no files have been uploaded. Strange. Well, that somewhat exlains the poor state of it. I'm of course referring to the released version. No idea what wonders the AOS4 team did (major league wonders if it works now ;).
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 47 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Kowalczyk on 13-Jan-2003 22:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (bakedbeans):
The Amiga community like to "eat their own" don't they? I'd say IBrowse is better than AWeb II that was included in OS3.9. I think it makes sense to see if the "traditional" browser people are interested in upgrading their work before tackling a port of Mozilla/Opera. If any ambitious group of programmers are looking for something to port, it probably makes sense to help out the OpenOffice people. That would be time well spent. The biggest advantage of the new hardware is having the power to do the ports.
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 48 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by David Burström on 13-Jan-2003 22:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
No, a broken page is one that does not follow the web standards (bad tag nesting, ie-specific tags, illegal cookie structure &c). And we have enhanced the support for those pages. "If you can't beat them", adapt to them. Webmasters don't normally listen to non IE-users if the pages are broken.

Regards,
David Burström, IB Team
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 49 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jan-2003 23:18 GMT
>Any decent software engineer with time and patience can find the bugs without having to re-engineer the entire program

Very general way to put it. My experience with code quality from public sources like Aminet is that nine out of ten programmers show a serious lack of skills. If you do not program: ignorance is bliss, enjoy the programs while they work. Last week I went through the code of some dos handlers: bad as bad can be. Memory leaks her, unreplied startup packet there, ridiculous casts (one author did cast all struct Node to APTR). It then takes ages to turn miserable code into an acceptable version. This is not or rarely a problem with oversights such as pointers. Even low-skill programmers find such errors easily with Enforcer, Mungwall and the optimizer (uninitialized variables). Rather, it's a problem with the general structure, the handling of ressources, exiting gracefully, correct casting, sensible use of local and global variables, sensible separation into subroutines, structuring your source code with blocks, prototyping functions etc. The whole works. I haven't seen the code of InstallerNG but given the track record and the seriousness of bugs, I'd bet that it's one of those messy things that are beyond being fixed by "looking at the bugs that jump out at you".
AmigaOS4 Feature Set: Release 1 : Comment 50 of 492ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jan-2003 23:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (David Burström):
> No, a broken page is one that does not follow the web standards

Of course. I was only poking fun at the person who wrote that ambigous sentence. Anyway, if recommend to replace "Hundreds of bug fixes to improve compatibility with broken sites" with "Highly increased tolerance for not entirely correct HTML code". It's a feature, not a bug fix, isn't it ?
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