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[News] Genesi needs You!ANN.lu
Posted on 18-Jan-2003 17:23 GMT by Senex150 comments
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In a posting on Amiga.org Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck of Genesi announced among other things a big deal for Set-top-Boxes built using the Pegasos and MorphOS which delivers the necessary cash-flow for the next steps. The team of bplan GmbH, the creators of the Pegasos and MorphOS, and Thendic-France SARL, the exclusive master distributor, will be merged into Genesi shortly. The Pegasos will be bundled with MorphOS, DebianPPC, Mac-on-Linux and suite of games and application software. OpenBSD and Gentoo ports are underway (available before CeBIT) and a Debian Development Team has been identified to create a special Pegasos distro. Discussions are underway for the following OS ports to the Pegasos: BeOS, OpenBeOS, NetBSD, Zeta, and NewOS. SuSE and Mandrake (we will see what happens there) are already running on the Pegasos. Many things still need to be done and we are interested in all constructive involvement. The idea is to rally a technically oriented community to the Pegasos before a mass-market for the Pegasos is attempted. We hope by taking this intermediate step the Pegasos will be more competitive with the BIGGER companies in the IT field. By the way, we will continue to fully support any effort to bring AmigaOS or AmigaDE to the platform (in fact, we have taken the necessary legal steps anyway to make sure this will happen since working cooperatively together has not been possible).

We are looking for Developers and highly motivated individuals who want to establish Development Teams and User Groups. In both cases, we will be offering special pricing on the Pegasos, CPU and OS upgrades, and peripherals, as we move ahead. There will be special aspects of our support sites that will provide the latest updates for any aspect of the platform online. We will have a software download section soon. Developers will be paid for their work, as many have discovered already. We are committed to moving ahead in big way. Tell us what you want to do – there is plenty of opportunity!

If you decide you want to become involved www.pegasos-usa.com up and running. Please check it out. This is a model we want to franchise. We would like to have www.pegasos-?????.com up and running soon too, for example, www.pegasos-italy.com, www.pegasos-newzealand.com or www.pegasos-nevada.com. When you click on support look where you go…. We are interested in establishing Distributors and User Groups in every possible location. These can also be linked through the site. For User Groups and Distributors, we can even register and supply the URL, the sources for the website and even web-hosting if necessary. We will support our chosen partners with the necessary resources as required -- if someone else has registered a URL already we will create an alternate and official domain. NOTE: the final URL for these associated sites has NOT yet been determined. You can find an interesting User Group site here: www.dijidesign.com/spug.

Going forward, further information can be found at www.pegasosppc.com, www.morphos-news.de, www.thendic-france.com (this site has already begun the transformation) and www.bplan-gmbh.de. We just hired an internationally experienced Management Team (resumes can be read at www.crossbee.com) and the integration/coordination work between the companies, the development teams, and the marketing plans have begun. We will be moving into new offices in Paris, Frankfurt, and Luxembourg shortly.

The Pegasos was featured last week at the world's largest Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. The Genesi Booth was found in the Break-Through Technologies Pavilion, South Hall, Booth #29101. We will have a complete Show Report online soon. CES is the current culmination of our announced Show schedule. You can see where we have been at www.pegasosppc.com under “Events.” Before we venture out in mass again, we will be putting a solid marketing plan into place. Shows like CES are expensive. Between CES and Aachen we spent nearly $100,000 sharing our message and our commitment to the platform (not to mention the cost of the other public demonstrations/event support). We are thinking that it may be better to bring our Developers on a working “vacation” rather than to fund the next big Show. In the meanwhile, we will fully support User Groups as we did last weekend in Finland. We really appreciate the support we have in Finland and the capable and intelligent people there.

About the future, Genesi has been contracted (and we mean revenue) to build a DTV set-top box using the PPC and MorphOS. This opportunity has created the necessary cash flow and business case to spawn the next level of our success. Strategically, we are continuing ahead with our vision of the eclipsis and the Pegasos will get better and better as the PPC evolves and MorphOS continues to be refined and improved (and thankfully it all ties into smart cards). Things are looking very “cool.”

The Pegasos and Genesi will be successful; we hope you will consider being part of it all. Please send us an email at bbrv@genesi.lu and we will do our best to answer you thoughtfully and positively.

Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 101 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 19-Jan-2003 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Iggy Drougge):
So, Iggy, you accept that the XBox is indeed an x86-based console.

Good.

Where does this leave your previous claim that there are no x86-consoles in existance? Misonformed, a lie, or merely a troll?

Oh, and still waiting to hear where you place people who use Amigas *AND* PCs, bearing in mind your pathetic statement here on ANN that PC users are "the enemy".
Genesi needs You! : Comment 102 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 19-Jan-2003 18:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio - reread what Iggy claimed - that there are NO x86-based consoles.

Therefore, pointing out even one single example (a VERY publically known example at that) is all it takes to prove he is wrong. Which is what I did.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 103 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by megol on 19-Jan-2003 19:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Fabio Alemagna):
Probably the fact that you can not license a x86 core (AFAIK). Most processors used on consoles are either integrated with the chipset and/or modified/extended.
It is much easier to just license a PPC/MIPS/ARM/COLDFIRE(etc.) core than designing a x86 core from scratch...
Genesi needs You! : Comment 104 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jan-2003 19:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Christian Kemp):
dont
Genesi needs You! : Comment 105 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jan-2003 19:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Skyraker):
? ooooh. profanity.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 106 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 19-Jan-2003 19:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Bladerunner):
I forgot about the Marty, but that is, just like the XBox, based on a computer, namely the FM Towns. Consoles which are made from scratch, without building on an existing platform (like the C64GS, CD³², XE GS and Amstrad GPX, all spectacular failures in the console world), have always steered well clear of the Intel processors.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 107 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 19-Jan-2003 19:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Anonymous):
You said it. There is no reason to choose the Intel over any other solution, despite the apologists claiming x86 to be the be-all, end-all of silicon technology for everything from microwave ovens to supercomputers.As for obscure Japanese consoles, my field of study is japanology and I"m writing this from Japan, so it was silly of me to forget the Marty, though the choice of x86 in that case is for legacy reasons, just like the XBox.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 108 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 19-Jan-2003 19:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
Stop your ranting, Keith.I chose to ignore the XBox. I"m not blind nor deaf, so anyone with just a little deduction could tell that I was ignoring the XBox, not ignorant of it.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 109 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 19-Jan-2003 19:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
Keith Blakemore-Noble wrote:

> Where does this leave your previous claim that there are no x86-consoles
> in existance? Misonformed, a lie, or merely a troll?

> Oh, and still waiting to hear where you place people who use Amigas
> *AND* PCs, bearing in mind your pathetic statement here on ANN that
> PC users are "the enemy".

My gosh, you are in a mood to flame today? Why don't you just relax! What
he said was not so bad at all. People need to lighten up some!
Genesi needs You! : Comment 110 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Bladerunner on 19-Jan-2003 20:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Iggy Drougge):
Why does it matter if the marty or others are based on existing computer plattforms? For the CD32 I am sure if commo where able to make a bigger amount of them, we wouldn`t discuss today about MOS vs AOS, we simply would have an Amiga xxxx with AOS 10 (or whatever number it would have today) Unfortunatelly they had not enough money, now here we go. But the CD32 itself was not bad, and what had to follow was even better...
For the Marty, this was also well selled afaik, whith many variants (e.g. the FM Towns Car Marty) BTW Afair the FM Towns computer itself was based on X86,ok but had its own OS and i am not sure if it was even ibm compatible..

So saying every computer based console was a failure, is simply not true. Even the X Box sells well (not that i like it or even would buy one, no but otoh that are facts..)

BTW, there is another japanese/american console based on a existing computer: Bandai Pipin, developed afaik from apple... but this was indeed a failure, not from the technical point, but for marketing reasons...
Genesi needs You! : Comment 111 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 19-Jan-2003 21:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Iggy Drougge):
OK Iggy, so your statement was, in fact, a deliberate lie then.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 112 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 19-Jan-2003 21:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Daniel Miller):
Daniel - sorry if it seems I get irritated when someone makes a deliberately false statement (Iggy has since admitted he was lying when he said there were no x86-based consoles), but there's this thing called "the truth" which it is occasionally nice to see.

you may have heard of it?


Go on Daniel, flame away as you inevitably will - if it helps yuou to get through the night then I'm glad to be of service.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 113 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Jan-2003 22:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
> (Iggy has since admitted he was lying when he said there were no x86-based
> consoles)

But come on, "lying"?! *Eveybody* on this planet with the slightest insigt in any kind of consumer electronics knows about the x-box, so who do you mean he is trying to fool? Whats the issue anyway? You seem a little edgy, and so are we all sometimes, but please drop this now before it's becoming pathetic ...
Genesi needs You! : Comment 114 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 19-Jan-2003 22:08 GMT
I would have to say that the xbox is more
a computer than a game system, it's lacking
all the traditional custom architecture that
make game systems perform so well. Basically
Microsoft took a low end Celeron based PC
tossed in a decent gfx card and said "look"
the most powerful console ever, because it has
more Mhz rating than the others...

I personally favour the Nintendo Gamecube which uses a custom
PPC chip (Gekko) that runs at 485Mhz (might not be exact figure)
with a specialized high speed bus system,
has a totally custom gfx chip (flipper) designed by a small
tech team, (ATI bought them later but it bears no similarity
to ATI designs...) fits into a very compact package with cool
mini-dvd discs, great expandibility, ease of development
and low cost in combination with Nintendo's great
quality first party games backing it.

PS2 fairs much better as a custom specialized piece of
hardware too. I wouldn't consider the xbox so much a
game system in the traditional sense, it's more like the
CD32 which was basically the same as an A1200 although
packaged as a "game console" I never considered it as
such since it's roots are entirely computer based. The
sx-1 etc. proves this and the same could be done with xbox,
but at least the Amiga A1200/CD32 had custom hardware similar
to the competing game systems giving it a decent "gamer" feel
anyway. But of course everyone's opinion of what constitues
a game console may differ, I base my opinons on nearly 20
years gaming experience, I have followed games and systems
since the Atari VCS 2600 first ruled the gaming world and
lived through the 1980's arcade scene. :)
(the GBA is really the only 100% TRUE classic style
system left though...) I guess this is all off-topic
anyway, but I love to talk about classic games and systems. :)
Genesi needs You! : Comment 115 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 19-Jan-2003 22:17 GMT
As another side note, it's funny how Microsoft
has no problems right out lying to customers
in their advertising. They proudly exclaim
on their "on-line service" that they have the
worlds first and only high speed on-line
video game system and games. I guess they missed
the Sega Dreamcast that had a thriving on-line
community with a varied selection of games
at least 2-3 years before them,
(PhantasyStar Online had over 300000 players
actively loggin in on Dreamcast to play on-line
via modem and broadband)
they forgot about GameCube and PS2 which both have
online games and even the Sega Saturn had a few
online games like Saturn Bomberman many years ago.
As far as I can tell this kind of marketing ought to
be illegal but it's never stopped them before... :)
Genesi needs You! : Comment 116 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Jan-2003 22:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Kelly Samel):
I think that the available games a gamer can play is more important than technical specification. I play games from time to time myself. I bought a PS2 becase of the following reasons:

1. Grand Turismo
2. Final Fantasy
3. Metal Gear Solid
4. Grand Theft Auto
5. Resident Evil

NOT the technical specifications. My PC has far better specs.

These games are probably available on X-box and others too by now, but it wasn't at the time. When Sony entered the game consoles market they secured their effort by buying lots of software houses. That must mean something.

> I guess this is all off-topic anyway, but I love to talk about classic games
> and systems. :)

Yes, this talk about game consoles is off topic. But this thread is becoming quite long now so people will probably stop reading it anyway ...
Genesi needs You! : Comment 117 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 20-Jan-2003 00:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Kelly Samel):
Ouch, my head hurts. The XBox is certainly both x86 based and also a game console. It has no keyboard, no mouse, it's interface was designed to be viewable from a greater distance and it connects to your audio/video components as any other modern console would. It also does not allow easy access to low lying OS functions, nor does it currently have any non-entertainment titles. (And if anyone points to those running Linux on it, consider JaysOS for the Gameboy Advance) M$ did not design the XBox from scratch, but its stated purpose is as a game console. Not even as a 3DO-ish hybrid, but as a game console pure and simple. The idea of playing movies and music on a console predates the XBox by three console generations (SegaCD/CD32>3DO/Jaguar>PS1/Saturn). It could be argued that the Sega Saturn was a computer as it had both an optional keyboard and mouse. Or better yet, the original 8-bit Nintendo, called the family computer (or Famicom) in Japan, which also had a keyboard and even writable storage in Japan. I don't know why this got me so worked up, I guess it's just because I'm "the enemy"...
Genesi needs You! : Comment 118 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Not a name follower on 20-Jan-2003 01:17 GMT
People go by the name, If Morphos was called AmiMorphOS many morons on here and Amiga.org would be worshiping it,

But it aint got "Amiga" in the name so it must be s--t and not worth buying.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 119 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 20-Jan-2003 01:18 GMT
I agree that games are the most important
factor in any system, here are a few
reasons I bought a GameCube:
(some of these are unreleased but
I am really looking forward to them...) :)

1. Metroid Prime
2. Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
3. Super Mario Sunshine
4. Resident Evil
5. Resident Evil 0
6. Resident Evil 4
7. Star Wars: Rogue Leader
8. Bomber Man Generations
9. Mario Party 4
10. Phantasy Star Online: Episodes 1 & 2
12. Eternal Darkness
13. FZero GC
14. VirtuaFighter Quest
15. Skies Of Arcadia Legends
16. SuperSmash Bros Melee
17. GBA link-up mini-games ;)
18. PikMin 1 + 2
19. SoulCaliber 2 (with "Link" as hidden playable character)
20. Sonic Adventure 1DX + 2

Anyway it seems that Nintendo has a lot of
really great first-party titles and that
PS2 gets a lot of good stuff too thanks to
it's popularity and industry support. A
lot of games end up on all 3 systems these
days too, although they are generally not
the best games; exclusives tend to be of a
higher quality. But also remember it's ok to
own more than one game system if you enjoy the
games on another too...
(many people seem to forget this, I own many
classic and modern systems myself) :)

By exclusives I mean:
(ie. LegendOfZelda (GC), MetroidPrime (GC),
FinalFantasy(PS2), Shinobi (PS2), etc.)
Genesi needs You! : Comment 120 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jan-2003 01:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Kelly Samel):
> Anyway it seems that Nintendo has a lot of really great first-party titles

Excuse my ignorance, what are first party titles ? Do you mean ego shooters and such ?
Genesi needs You! : Comment 121 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 20-Jan-2003 02:26 GMT
I mean games made by the parent company.
(ie games made by Nintendo themselves not
3rd party liscensee companies)
Genesi needs You! : Comment 122 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 20-Jan-2003 04:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (alan buxey):
>its only around 500 EURO's . which, for the custom mini-ATX format
>that it is, with CPU upgrade board which allows DUAL-CPU usage
>(check out how much more you pay for DUAL-CPU in x86 world...and
>those boards dont come in small sizes)
>pay cheap, get cheap.

Not against an AMD 76x based motherboard plus a 1x Athlon 2000+ MP CPU.
500 EURO's is about ~$1000 AUD. (Australian Dollar)

From http://www.adelong.com.au/
1X Athlon 2000+ MP CPU cost $375 AUD
1X ASUS A7M266-D Dual Socket A DDR Athlon/Duron Mainboard MBASU025 $595 AUD

From http://www.supracomputers.com.au/NEWSUPRA/pages/products/motherboard/motherboard.htm

1X MSI K7D-Master 6501, Dual Socket A for Athlon MP CPU $573.60 AUD.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 123 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 20-Jan-2003 04:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Iggy Drougge):
>If the x86 is cheaper, then please tell us why there's never been a game >console using it.

I recall X-BOX game console was based on following;
1. nVidia nForce DDR chipset variant.
2. nVidia Soundstorm 5.1 Dobby Digital Sound APU variant.
3. nVidia GeF 3 GPU variant(NV2A).
4. Seagate U series HD or some other brand.
5. Intel Pentium III/Celeron 733Mhz kitbash.

Refer to http://www.digit-life.com/articles/nvidianforcemcp/ for nVidia’s Luciano Alibrandi regarding MCP south bridge and X-Box.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 124 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 20-Jan-2003 04:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Anonymous):
>Btw, isn't the MAI chipset suitable for x86 CPUs, too ? Maybe there even is
>an ISA path buried in it somewhere. Gosh, wouldn't that be truly horrible ?

Reading through their web site, MAI did mentioned X86 linkup capability with their chipsets. I wonder IF Genesi can include a X86 CPU with their PPC solution i.e. Dual CPU with a difference.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 125 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 20-Jan-2003 05:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Kelly Samel):
Out of those 20 games I wouldnt lay my finger on half of them .. (and yes, I have played them)

on the other hand . i am a PS2 owner... which prolly makes me the enemy ;-)



Excellent thread, for a long time, only let down by utterly idiotic x86 game console debate blah blah by two individuals. spare us .. next time exchange thoughts using emails :)
Genesi needs You! : Comment 126 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 20-Jan-2003 05:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Iggy Drougge):
> Compared to the PC, a motherboard such as the Pegasos is a very clean,
> modern design (though not modern in all respects).
Can it be compared to Shuttle's SFF nForce 2 SPP(or IGP)/MCP-T based motherboard?

I'm sure nVidia's SoundStorm 5.1 murders VIA’s internal sound chip and probably takeout Sblive5.1 and Audigy 1 at the same time. (Not true with Chaintech’s nForce2 since it uses C-Media’s 16bit codec). NForce2's 6.4Gb/s bandwidth makes that board dated.

Note that PPC 970's based mobo delivers a 6.4Gb/s bandwidth during second half of 2003.

PS;Note that most NForce 2 includes onboard Firewire ports....
Genesi needs You! : Comment 127 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 20-Jan-2003 10:40 GMT
Hmmm, there is a lot of misinformation in this thread.

I have an EPIA 800 based system. I paid £68 for it, including the 800MHz processor. It uses the same southbridge as the Pegasos. It is the old generation of mini-iTX motherboards as well (an old generation of a techonology shrink of an old generation) - the new generation is much more powerful, with USB2, ATA133, even faster integrated graphics (this is where the EPIA 800 falls down)...

Current PC architecture is way beyond the simple 1999-era cpu - northbridge - PCI - southbridge style of the Pegasos. Yes, the Pegasos is more of the nay-sayers view of a PC then a modern PC is today.

Now if this STB deal can enable the price of the Pegasos to drop to around £100 including a processor, then great - I will buy one.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 128 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-Jan-2003 11:04 GMT
From the topic:

Amiga needs me even more. ;-)

(but they (AmigaInc) do not deserve me) :-(
Genesi needs You! : Comment 129 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 20-Jan-2003 12:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (greenboy):
It was mainly because of you (phoenix consortium) and your work that I gained more respect for Genesi plans...
Although they still hadn't departed themselfs from Amigas tail yet, with your 'joint venture' I know they will eventually get it, somewhere near in the future...
Genesi needs You! : Comment 130 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 20-Jan-2003 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Not a name follower):
>People go by the name, If Morphos was called AmiMorphOS many morons
>on here and Amiga.org would be worshiping it

>But it aint got "Amiga" in the name so it must be s--t and not worth
>buying.

Wrong, it would simply be the other way arround, amiga users are hardly resiliant about it's OS and what it should be...
Genesi needs You! : Comment 131 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 20-Jan-2003 13:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (Graham):
...£100?

sometimes I think people need to either get real, or quit

VIA can bring out a cheap board because they are using
a very cheap processor (their own, their own fab plants)
using their own chipset. a very very cheap very mass produced
chipset) and standard parts.

Genesi , with their Pegasos, are using a CPU which is more
expensive (oh, and more powerful than the C3 - AND is upgradable
to DUAL processor etc) , with other peoples chips (payment for licences/usage
etc) and a normal format motherboard which gives users expansion
ability.

yes, they could shrink the format ( a little more, its already
compact). they could remove the slots, they could go for a fixed
into place CPU (which EVERYONE SLATED EYETECH ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME)
or a lower spec one.

even with all this, the markets of scale mean that you wont see such a fully
usable board (which isnt needed for STB. an STB version of the 'Pegasos' - its wouldnt be a Pegasos...could be under £100..but it wouldnt be a computer)
for under £200.

anyway.....arent you an Amigan? didnt you pay a couple of hundred or more just
for an 030?? werent you a computer user when 4Mb SIMMs cost £150? I was.

i think too many people are either ultra-tight, want the moon on a stick
or just dont live in the real world.

certainly, the PC wouldnt be what it is today if some people didnt go out
and buy the latest hardware for higher prices.

you'd still be playing with 486/dx66's


alan
alan
Genesi needs You! : Comment 132 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Kowalczyk on 20-Jan-2003 13:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (alan buxey):
Alan, I hate to think what I spent on my A500 when it was "leading edge"....and that amount far exceeds what I've spent on my AmigaOne. I also hate to think what I spent on my dead CSPPC. More than double what I paid for my AmigaOne motherboard.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 133 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 20-Jan-2003 13:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (DruggedBunny):
Perhaps few people code in x86 assembly, but the same isn't true for PowerPC. So-called 'optimized' C compilers are over-rated. PowerPC assembly is pretty easy and the benefits are often worth the extra effort.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 134 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 20-Jan-2003 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Casey R Williams):
>Ouch, my head hurts. The XBox is certainly both x86 based and also a game console. It has no keyboard, no mouse, it's interface was designed to be viewable from a greater distance and it connects to your audio/video components as any other modern console would. It also does not allow easy access to low lying OS functions, nor does it currently have any non-entertainment titles

Good grief. Well let me remove my keyboard and mouse from my Mac and connect it to my TV and stereo....OMG! It's no longer a computer!!

As for "low lying OS functions", WTF is it doing with an OS? It's supposed to be a CONSOLE remember?
Genesi needs You! : Comment 135 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 20-Jan-2003 14:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (alan buxey):
>>anyway.....arent you an Amigan? didnt you pay a couple of hundred or more just for an 030?? werent you a computer user when 4Mb SIMMs cost £150? I was.

Good points Alan. I remember paying these prices at various times:

C64 5.25" floppy drive - UKP199
Amiga 3.5" internal floppy drive - UKP199
MPS801 printer - UKP199

There's UKP600 (US$900) for three piddly items alone which is more than an AmigaOneXE G4. Plus, UKP600 was worth a hell of a lot more back in the 80's than it's worth now.

Of course, we'll start hearing the "Well I can get a Winblows PC for $xxxx less...", etc. Fine, I can buy a Hyundai Accent for $10,000, but out of self respect I drive a Camero. Besides, since the death of Commodore, it's not like we haven't had plenty of time to save up for an A1/Pegasos :-)
Genesi needs You! : Comment 136 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jan-2003 15:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Anonymous):
This man probably talking about ECS duron system (saying $150).
Genesi needs You! : Comment 137 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by tinman on 20-Jan-2003 17:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (strobe):
"As for "low lying OS functions", WTF is it doing with an OS? It's supposed to be a CONSOLE remember?"

The OS is used to manage the system nothing more - don't think it has to be huge or because it has one it must be a computer. Why have every single developer write code for dealing with the display hardware, DVD drive, joypads, etc?
Genesi needs You! : Comment 138 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 20-Jan-2003 18:15 GMT
Didn't found it worth a new news-item, therefore I mention it just
here:

On www.pegasosppc.com you'll now also find the "Psylent" and which
functionality they're planning for it.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 139 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jan-2003 19:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (alan buxey):
> ...£100? Sometimes I think people need to either get real, or quit

500 EUR for a 600 MHz mainboard ? Sometimes I think companies need to either get real, or quit. Even at the proposed price above, I'd still wonder if it wouldn't be wiser to buy a regular AMD cpu/board (except I already have one).

May I ask why you are prepared to pay the hefty price ? It's not as if you'll be entering a whole new world of software. If your motivation is to "support the Amiga", please don't bother to reply. I'm a regular joe consumer and not in the support-my-favorite-company mood.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 140 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 20-Jan-2003 19:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Anonymous):
"500 EUR for a 600 MHz mainboard ? Sometimes I think companies need to either get real, or quit. Even at the proposed price above, I'd still wonder if it wouldn't be wiser to buy a regular AMD cpu/board (except I already have one)."

Then I see no reason as to why you are here? You will not get an Amiga (or compatible) at that price in the forseeable future.

"May I ask why you are prepared to pay the hefty price ? It's not as if you'll be entering a whole new world of software. If your motivation is to "support the Amiga", please don't bother to reply. I'm a regular joe consumer and not in the support-my-favorite-company mood."

For me it's a hobby, I like the system, the community.. It's just like some people who buy expensive funitures, stamps, coins, cars or whatever.. I'm prepared to pay the prices Eyetech (or genesi*) wants, cos I know they can't make it cheaper atm.

A regular Joe consumer has actually nothing to do in the Amiga community right now and that is not just because of the hardware prices but also due to lack of software. Sad but true.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 141 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 20-Jan-2003 20:00 GMT
"It's not as if you'll be entering a whole new world of software"

Maybe not a whole new world, but a portion of world. Plus exciting _new_ platform to play around with. Have had enough with aos1-3.9, win3.11-xp .. I'm willing to pay some money to experience, and maybe even learn something new.

Thought again, correction: I am WILLING to pay some money if I can junk this XP machine I am using and replace it with something which keeps me entertained.
Ok, I could go for Linux, FreeSBD or whatever, but as I am no geek I won't ;-)
Genesi needs You! : Comment 142 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jan-2003 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Troels Ersking):
> Then I see no reason as to why you are here? You will not get an Amiga (or compatible) at that price in the forseeable future.

You don't seem to understand me. When I mention an x86-based mainboard, I obviously mean to use it as an Amiga. Consequently, I find it perfectly normal to compare a Pegasos to a PC mainboard on a bangs for bucks basis, until, i ever, the PPC solutions actually DO open a whole new world of software to the customer.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 143 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 20-Jan-2003 20:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (strobe):
"Good grief. Well let me remove my keyboard and mouse from my Mac and connect it to my TV and stereo....OMG! It's no longer a computer!!"

Congrats, you just recreated Bandai's Pippen console!

"As for "low lying OS functions", WTF is it doing with an OS? It's supposed to be a CONSOLE remember?"

Uhh... What do you consider Bios or Firmware as in the case of any console which can start up without a cart or disk inserted (Saturn, PS1/2, etc.)? Since you can't really access it at the user level it's no more an OS than the aforementioned systems had. But in the technical sense, even a digital watch is a computer...
Genesi needs You! : Comment 144 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 20-Jan-2003 21:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (alan buxey):
>certainly, the PC wouldnt be what it is today if some people didnt go out
>and buy the latest hardware for higher prices.
>you'd still be playing with 486/dx66's

Well, companies such as AMD, VIA, RISE and Transmeta gave some real competition for X86 market. To bad PPC market was not bless with such rouges.
Without those companies, Intel may have been continuing to charge expensive parts and components.

PPC market seems to be less energetic than X86 market. Moto and IBM relationship doesn’t seem to be as heated as Intel vs AMD’s battle royal.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 145 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 20-Jan-2003 22:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (priest):
@Priest
" From the topic:
Amiga needs me even more. ;-)
(but they (AmigaInc) do not deserve me) :-("

I agree to you. Even though my definition of Amiga may be a bit wider than yours that still holds.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 146 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jan-2003 23:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Iggy Drougge):
" As for obscure Japanese consoles, my field of study is japanology and I"m writing this from Japan, so it was silly of me to forget the Marty, though the choice of x86 in that case is for legacy reasons, just like the XBox."

Then it's quite odd that there are practically NO ports of PC games for the Xbox, isn't it? As a matter of fact out of the games I have (13 games so far) there are TWO games which are also available on PC. There are also a couple of PC ports for other consoles, so this point is obviously off the mark.

If you take a look at the release schedule, you will also see that ports of PC games will probably be less than 5% of the total amount of games (xbox.ign.com is a good place to start looking for info on coming releases).

The Xbox is the most powerful console out there (I own all of the "128-bit generation" consoles) and it's also the console with some of the coolest games since the Dreamcast (not saying the GameCube isn't doing a good job at this, but Xbox is doing even better).
Genesi needs You! : Comment 147 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by AmigaGuy on 21-Jan-2003 01:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (bbrv):
>“it is not how little it costs, it is how >much you get”

Tell that to the consumer. Money is an object to most people.

>BUT, everything begins and advances WITH the Pegasos running MorphOS.

If the above statement is true, why do you guys want Amiga OS4 to run on your board so bad that you threaten to sue Amiga Inc.?

>Raquel and Bill

AmigaGuy
Genesi needs You! : Comment 148 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 23-Jan-2003 17:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (JoannaK):
Joanna, the definition of Amiga definitely is wider.

The rotten spot is the AInc.

but...
The community ... it's ok (somedays you love it somedays you hate it), but I averagely I think I like it.
The Classic HW ... well, what can I say, it's classic.
The OS ... I'm amazed, still.
...


Anyway... we are at the end of one era heading towards yet another ... I've seen so many uphills and so many downhills that I think I need to see also the rest of it ... whatever happens.

"Amiga" lives.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 149 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 28-Jan-2003 00:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Iggy Drougge):
>The XBox is the only x86 console, made by a PC house for easy porting of PC >games. What would you expect from Microsoft?

Note that Sega Dreamcast was powered by Microsoft's OS product.
Genesi needs You! : Comment 150 of 150ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 28-Jan-2003 01:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Iggy Drougge):
>I"m writing this from Japan, so it was silly of me to forget the Marty,
>though the choice of x86 in that case is for legacy reasons, just like the
>XBox.
Note that Windows NT kernel is portable to other CPU architectures e.g. MIPS, PPC, IA-64, X86-64, X86-32.

It’s technically possible to have a PPC edition of X-Box console, since Windows NT was available for PPC. MS may been keeping it’s distance from IBM(opposite maybe also true) since their fallout with OS/2 project. Business relationships maybe important in that case.

Note also, SoftWindow95 was built from licensed MS Windows95 source code, thus making it the closest to "Windows95 PPC edition" (with X86 JIT emulator)(to bad it’s running on top MacOS).

Secondly, there was issue from nVidia’s chipset support (fundamentally nForce 1 with a modified GF3**) for non-X86 CPU.

**This Direct 8.x IGP design may reappear on "nForce 3" (powered by IGP edition of GF4 TI).

For some reason MAI has support for both X86 and PPC in their chipset designs.
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