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[News] CES show summary by Nicholas BlachfordANN.lu
Posted on 20-Jan-2003 15:27 GMT by Damien McKenna25 comments
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Nicholas Blachford wrote up a nice summary of the CES 2003 show at http://genesisupport.com/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=16.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 1 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by rafo on 20-Jan-2003 20:08 GMT
The guy should learn about page layout, as it's just unreadable. Looks interesting though.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 2 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 20-Jan-2003 21:23 GMT
Sounds intresting :)
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 3 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jan-2003 21:49 GMT
...makes the feet hurt, and the wallet tremble,

just thinking about it! Did your wife hide the

VISA card?
8')
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 4 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Vidar on 20-Jan-2003 22:15 GMT
Am I the only one who can't access that article? Or Genesisupport.com in general?
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 5 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jan-2003 23:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (rafo):
> The guy should learn about page layout, as it's just unreadable. Looks interesting though.<

What's so hard about reading plain text?!!!
At least he used paragraph breaks.

The "page layout" is supplied by Genesi, blame THEM if it looks bad to you.
(maybe blame yourself for being overcritical)
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 6 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 21-Jan-2003 00:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
Anonymous wrote:
> The "page layout" is supplied by Genesi,

Actually the page layout is supplied by the Tiki CMS (tikiwiki.sourceforge.net) and implemented by the guys at pegasos-usa.com (not Genesi). It does have more formatting possibilities than this article shows, but the site is just getting under way and I imagine the site guys have been spending more time on function than appearance so far.

Tiki does cause problems for some browsers as it uses style sheets and javascript pretty intensively. The webmasters would probably like feedback from people about how the site is displaying.

-- gary_c
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 7 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Damien on 21-Jan-2003 01:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (gary_c):
Actually the site _is_ being done by Genesi, by the Genesi-USA team, and in this case it was I who posted the message. It was 11:30pm at night, I'd been working all day on the sites and had to get up at 6am this morning so I didn't worry about prettying up the report. I will see about doing that, though.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 8 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 21-Jan-2003 01:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Damien):
> Actually the site _is_ being done by Genesi, by the Genesi-USA team,

Sorry, my misunderstanding. In his "Genesi Needs You" post, Bill Buck referred to pegasos-usa.com as a franchise model. I took this to mean it wasn't Genesi's site per se. But maybe it's just a matter of definitions. :-)

-- gary_c
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 9 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 21-Jan-2003 01:38 GMT
I have tried the link with:
Aweb, IBrowse, Voyager -> Bad layout
Netscape 6, Opera 6, Omniweb, Safari, IE5 -> Nice Layout

Nice review.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 10 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by acg on 21-Jan-2003 02:00 GMT
Sounds like a "geek" paradise...by the way were there any"68K" Amiga programs running on the Pegasos? That would bepretty nice, no?lots of 3-D stuff, not bad....Thank you for the informative report.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 11 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 21-Jan-2003 04:19 GMT
Good, clean, informative article. And most of all not filled with unnecessary Pegasos hype and advertising.. it does what its meant to.. tells about the show.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 12 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jan-2003 09:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Amon_Re):
erm, this comment was about fotofoto, seems i messed up, didn't read this article, sorry
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 13 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Damien McKenna on 21-Jan-2003 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (gary_c):
Pegasos-USA.com will be used as a model to franchise to others, but it is an internally-developed system (using an open-source shopping cart system).
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 14 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Damien McKenna on 21-Jan-2003 13:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Christophe Decanini):
The site uses a content management system called Tiki that uses up-to-date web standards for its output. The problem is that Amiga web browsers have not kept up to date with the changes, in fact they are stuck at HTML 3 whereas the technology has changed greatly through HTML 4 and XHTML 1 (which is what Tiki uses).

This is a fault of the web browsers, not the site, and is something that Genesi and others are working to rectify.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 15 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jan-2003 15:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Damien McKenna):
What do the strange linked questionmarks do?
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 16 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jan-2003 15:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Damien McKenna):
>whereas the technology has changed greatly through HTML 4 and XHTML 1 (which >is what Tiki uses).

Try run your site through http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fgenesisupport.com%2Ftiki-read_article.php%3FarticleId%3D16 and you'll notice
how missbehaving it is.

>This is a fault of the web browsers, not the site, and is something that >Genesi and others are working to rectify.

Lol! Perhaps by updating your site?
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 17 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jan-2003 16:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
> Lol! Perhaps by updating your site?

Well, aren't we in a sunny mood today ;-)
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 18 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by StAn on 21-Jan-2003 17:37 GMT
We all know that Amiga web browsers are not supporting CSS (amongst other things).
But my guess is that a sensible part of your audience is using Amiga (or MorphOS) software; hence supporting "outdated" standards so that your site can be read may be an option to be thought about.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe 99% of your target audience is using Windows.
Anyway that would be nice if you at least included line/paragraph breaks for us Amiga and Pegasos users.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 19 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 22-Jan-2003 03:50 GMT
@Anonymous:
> What do the strange linked questionmarks do?

This is wiki web syntax to create a new page. Wiki web pages are a kind of user-editable/creatable web site; the idea is to have a kind of organic user-generated site where pages can be easily created and edited in a grassroots way. In the wiki syntax, if you write two words together with uppercase first letters (like NewPage), the CMS will automatically generate a new page for you. When yoy save changes on your "parent" page, you then get a question mark after this word (NewPage?); when you click on the question mark, you can add content to the new "child" page. Tiki is actually a wiki on steriods. It has an article-publishing function, which we see in this case (also forums, chat, blogs, file galleries, etc.), but its roots are wiki web, and the syntax is shared. Actually, any question marks in the article are unintended and the words should have been written with spaces or hyphens or something to avoid the automatic new-page syntax (most readers won't have permission to make new pages on this part of the site anyway).

@Anonymous

>> This is a fault of the web browsers, not the site, and is something that
>> Genesi and others are working to rectify.

> Lol! Perhaps by updating your site?

It's not a question of updating the site; the site uses the most up-to-date web standards. This, in fact, is exactly the problem. To be readable by Amiga browsers, the site should be downdated (is that a word?) to elimate CSS and Javascript, back to the late '90s or so ;-).

@StAn

> Anyway that would be nice if you at least included line/paragraph breaks for us Amiga and Pegasos users.

I believe this is being looked at by Genesi and the pegasos-usa.com staff. In an extranet implementation of Tiki, we (at phinixi.com) added a white background color spec to the body tag and this helped readability somewhat for Amiga browsers. I'm not sure how much can be done for formatting in general without changing the code that produces the pages, though. But I know people are looking for solutions, especially as Amiga/MorphOS users will be wanting to access the sites.

-- gary_c
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 20 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 22-Jan-2003 04:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
anonymous wrote:
> Try run your site through http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fgenesisupport.com%2Ftiki- read_article.php%3FarticleId%3D16 and you'll notice
how missbehaving it is.

You're right: there are a number of tags that don't validate properly. The Tiki developers are aware of most of these AFAIK and will address them. Also, since Tiki preferences can be set to allow HTML code in page text, individual authors could insert noncomplying tags. However, I don't think these things are breaking the page for any browser/viewer. Anyone running a recent-version browser who can't view the pages should contact the webmasters.

-- gary_c
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 21 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 22-Jan-2003 07:26 GMT
Updating the site should mean making it accessible for the intended
audience.

If the intended audience happens to consist of blind people, it makes
no sense to use the latest in colour print technology just because
it's "modern".
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 22 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 22-Jan-2003 12:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Johan Rönnblom):
I think the same way.
We know that Amiga/MorphOS browsers do not support latest web standards.
It is a shame that I can order books on Amazon.com, read reviews on CNET, but that I can hardly read a report on Pegasos.
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 23 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by StAn on 22-Jan-2003 13:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (gary_c):
I can't see how a white background could improve readability :) In fact that's exactly the opposite, here, when I want to read a site with a white background I usually disable background colour with AWeb :)
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 24 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 23-Jan-2003 00:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (StAn):
StAn wrote:

> I can't see how a white background could improve readability :) In fact that's exactly the opposite, here, when I want to read a site with a white background I usually disable background colour with AWeb :)

Well, it's a subjective thing, right? :-) One of our members said that the default grey background in his browser made the page hard to read and asked if I could change the page background to white. I did this and he said it was a good improvement. If I get more feedback I'll try to adjust it accordingly.

-- gary_c
CES show summary by Nicholas Blachford : Comment 25 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by StAn on 23-Jan-2003 17:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (gary_c):
Hm, if he doesn't like grey bg he should change the prefs of his browser :)
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