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[News] News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy!ANN.lu
Posted on 24-Jan-2003 15:34 GMT by Senex58 comments
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In a new official statement at MorphOS-News.de, which is mainly a compilation of previous comments at ANN & Amiga.org, Genesi addresses the current problem with satisfying the demand for Pegasos-computers and ask if someone would like to port "wxwindows" to MorphOS: News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy!

Our first week back in Europe after the New Year was an exciting one. We wanted to catch up a little before we made this post. We have plenty of information to share and we know that many of you need an update. Here goes…

Most importantly, we cannot ship the Pegasos if we cannot make it! We met with Mai at CES and Mai confirmed they will ship the old Articias to us. Once we get them we need to mount them on the April PCB and then the mainboard. We know there is plenty of frustration out there for those of you that want the Pegasos. They will be available again soon. We will continue to sell the Pegasos with the old Articia until we get the new samples and can test them. In the meanwhile, we have been working with a replacement chip that is a bit more expensive, but it seems to work fine. In this case, we will have two suppliers for this component and will not be restricted in the future. All the other components required are in stock and ready for assembly. Just to recap:

1. The Pegasos is:

a. Upgradeable – from G3 to G4 to Dual CPUs, etc. (IBM will release 64 bit PPC in March, after the G5 (?), and as recently announced IBM and AMD are going to do R&D together, etc.). As IBM and Motorola share the IP of the PPC, we think they will be around and competitive with Intel into the future -- especially with the move toward more mobility and less CPU power consumption. See the latest IBM announcement. Of course, that means a Pegasos II, or a PegasosPlus, etc., etc.

b. Scalable - can be stacked, i.e., 1) three/four dual G4 boards in a case would give potentially +8GHz of CPU speed in a "desktop" machine at a very affordable price (this is only a good marketing pitch -- "8GHz on the desktop") or 2) later, multiple boards can be rack mounted and stacked "up to the ceiling."

c. Modifiable - it can be made smaller omitting elements to a base station for a mobile device (eclipsis or even an EyeCam). It can be turned into a Home Server that sits with the Home Entertainment Center/Theater (Psylent) or really scaling back to a simple Satellite DTV receiver (looking for a cool name, this is the project we have been contracted for -- in the end we will share the IP).

d. In the meanwhile the Pegasos becomes an increasingly stable and a viable Development Platform for the future and all the projects mentioned.

e. Finally, it offers an alternative hardware platform to various OS specific development communities, attracting innovation and creativity. It has Open Firmware (which also makes it easy for peripheral developers to develop hardware that works with the platform).

Check out http://www.osnews.com/topic.php?icon=69 and then return to the OSNews home page. This is the kind of broad market interest we need. We already have a number of LinuxPPC distros running (and Mac-on-Linux) and an agreement to port OpenBSD has been executed and we are working with Rebol already.

2. MorphOS

a. Starts on the Pegasos and grows increasingly functional

b. Runs on Macs by the end of 2003. This will be marketed as a special application for Mac that does not "run" on the host hard drive (but can). We will sell the application, the OS is just there to make it work or just sell the OS. The application could be related to a smart card with the OS in the ROM of the reader, or a CD with a cool game, etc., etc. This could also be done “as a cross-platform class toolkit, such as wxwindows, that assumes the native look of the respective target OS. Users wouldn't object to applications written with such a toolkit (they wouldn't know) and developers certainly wouldn't object to the idea of selling to multiple platforms simultaneously.” Anyone want to port wxwindows to MorphOS? Anyway, until then, MorphOS will be bundled with the Pegasos and be available at no additional cost.

c. Provides the ultimate 'connectivity' through the various efforts (mobile, satellite, desktop, server, television, etc.

Together the PEGASOS and MORPHOS are the "CORE TECHNOLOGIES" of Genesi.

3. The next stuff... tied into smart cards (Trusted Community, Copyright Protection, etc.). More on this another time…;-)

That is the basic game plan.

The STB we are discussing is quite different than what has been attempted historically. The basic version does not have an uplink. It is very inexpensive and it is basic in form and function (but as much for less, remember the C64 slogan was: “it is not how little it costs, it is how much you get”). Interactivity comes through smart cards. This is a satellite television receiver with some memory. The smart card is used to enable elements of the signal. Authorization levels depend on subscription or payment per event/movie (pre-paid or pay-as-you-go). Of course, a more advanced version could be a base station for the eclipsis. Then there is the Psylent (formally Pega-shush)...a 24/7 ISP bundled home server that does not have anything to do with the Satellite DTV STB, but EVERYTHING to do with a "state of the art" Home Entertainment Center. Everything begins and advances WITH the Core Technologies, the Pegasos running MorphOS. We can profit from the core technology by adapting it to various "configurations" which will allow us to build the Company and the Developer base.

When things are really stable, then there is the mass-market beginning with the sale of the OS/Application to Mac Users...then the hardware...etc. BUT, FOR NOW WE ARE JUST FOCUSED ON THE TECHNICALLY ORIENTED COMPUTER USER.

NOW, take all this and combine it with some of the recent ideas we have been discussing with the Phoenix Developer Consortium (www.phinixi.com). Genesi and Phoenix will initiate a VA Software/SourceForge relationship. This will make it easy for Developers who might not want to be “part” of Genesi, but still associated closely with the hardware platform. Nevertheless, the opportunity is much more than an open source/Linux Development Community. Genesi owns the IP of the hardware AND the OS. We can leverage off both Open Source and Closed Source virtues while still capturing the valuable hardware revenue. We have decided this can be shared with members of Phoenix as Distributors/Integrators of a platform that is INITIALLY oriented to TECHNICALLY oriented people anyway. The sale of Pegasos machines configured with various potential OS's seems to be a unique revenue producing opportunity and MAYBE a "new" way of "selling" the computer...like a multilevel marketing scheme...ding-dong...its not the Avon Lady! It is the Phoenix Man with your Pegasos! We could develop a whole tiered system...when you recruit ten Phoenix Distributors you become a Phoenix Flyer! OK, we will not get too carried away, but you get the idea...

We are just brain storming, but using www.genesisupport.com to "answer" the "silly" support questions, provide User Group Forums, and the latest OS/application upgrades seems like a good way to go. In the meanwhile, we will set up Phoenix members in a VA Software/SourceForge like relationship that evolves into unit sales and then maybe System Integrators/Service Providers (like the old LAN/WAN businesses). This could be a cool stroke to capture widespread interest once the publicity effort really kicks into gear...;-) We already have begun discussions with Phoenix members in New Zealand, the USA, Canada, the Czech Republic, and Japan. This grass-roots approach could hold some valuable benefits for a broader community. Please share you thoughts with us.

Lastly, thanks to the Genesi Team who made CES a great experience for us. Have a look at some of the CES photos on the GenesiSupport pages. We have recently brought a number of very talented people into Genesi. They all deserve recognition and they will be getting it soon.

Best regards,
R&B.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 1 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by cv643d on 24-Jan-2003 15:30 GMT
Hey...
Thats some great positive news. I like Pegasos/MorphOS.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 2 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Xeyes on 24-Jan-2003 15:35 GMT
I keep listening to the "MorphOS has no vision or future" arguement, and I have to say IMHO they have more vision (and are better at chasing it) than Amiga, Inc.

I really think, despite my prejudice against them, that the MorphOS people will pull this off and succeed. They are proving themselves to be quite the movers and shakers, while Amiga Inc has to have a mirror placed under it's nose just to discern wether it's sleeping or dead. (sigh)
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 3 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 24-Jan-2003 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (cv643d):
Hi Bill (or anyone who knows),

> Runs on Macs by the end of 2003.

Great. Any news on when it'll run on an A1?

Cheers,
Robert
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 4 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 24-Jan-2003 16:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Robert):
>Any news on when it'll run on an A1?

I doubt there is much interest from the A1 users, because they will have OS4
which 'will kick MorphOS' ass'(tm).
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 5 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Jan-2003 16:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (David Scheibler):
lol, your jokes rule man
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 6 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 24-Jan-2003 16:30 GMT
Just as a word of warning to R&B: Be very careful with the usage of the word "Exciting" as it can easily turn ANY news into boring hyping and can cause severe chills when absorbed in quantity.

Brrr...

Anyway, nice to see that all the work that has gone into the peggy is slowly starting to bear fruit. Who knows, maybe someday I'll get one.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 7 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Raquel and Bill on 24-Jan-2003 17:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (gz):
@gz

It is just a "cultural thing"...have you ever seen Christmas letters in America?

:-)

@Robert

As we said months ago, we will support any A1 Distributor who wants to work with Hyperion to do this. The www.pegasos-uk.com guys are ready to do it. Maybe, Ron at Computer City too. The idea is to have the Pegasos there to support multiple development communities (and draw them together).

Best regards,

R&B
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 8 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by nihilvor on 24-Jan-2003 17:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (cv643d):
Okay, but what is it about this particular post that you find fascinating? This bit of news seems to classify as half news / half hype, as many of the old CEO updates at Amiga.com do. There is nothing in this post that you can stick in your hat, so to speak: delays, a recaping of features, and news about STBs.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 9 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Jan-2003 17:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Raquel and Bill):
As i see it .You will only support any effort that will not lose you sales of the pegasos mobo.So no MOS for Amiga.OneAnd you dont want Aos4 to come with the pegasos preinstalled.Toy will not allow a dealer to buy a batch of pegasos mobo's with out MOS & preinstall Aos4.Oh but MOS come free with the pegasos so its no extra cost to the dealer.OK then dealer buy's batch of pegaos mobs. gets cert from amiga.inc dearler then.clears MOS fron the HD installs Aos4.BUT no you will not allow that.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 10 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 24-Jan-2003 17:46 GMT
<gag>... wxWindows?

Do us all a favour and port GTK+ (Gnome, Open Office) or Qt (KDE, Qtopia). Both MorphOS and OS4 need a major GUI overhaul and some RAD tools for development. These other frameworks offer *both* and their use is wisespread in the Unix world.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 11 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 24-Jan-2003 17:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (anonymous):
>Do us all a favour and port (...) QT

This is already planned (see MorphOS feature list).
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 12 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 24-Jan-2003 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (anonymous):
QT is already planned, see MOS-Featurelist.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 13 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 24-Jan-2003 17:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Raquel and Bill):
@R&B

Over at Amiga-News.de they're asking which alternative to the Articia
you're looking at in detail? Somewhere else you already hinted at IBM
- but which one? And will you replace the southbridge then as well
(and, if so, by which one)?
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 14 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 24-Jan-2003 18:45 GMT
I don't think I would have any problem buying
a Pegasos if OS4 would become available for it.
I would like to know Hyperion's opinion on this,
they mentioned that OS4 and A1 are seperate
products so I gather that it could happen? I
can see that MorphOS may be a great OS solution
but I still think OS4 will have inherent
advantages from being ported from original AmigaOS
sources and concepts while being "modernized" at the
same time. Only time will tell for sure though
which solution performs the best for Amiga users...
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 15 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 24-Jan-2003 19:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Kelly Samel):
I, too, will give OS4 a try if it should be released for the Pegasos
as well. But I think we should just wait and see. Since OS4 isn't
available yet, I would (if OS4 would be my main interest) not see any
need for myself to immediately go out and buy an AmigaOne. I'd rather
wait until it's actually released - maybe both sides come to an
agreement until then regarding OS4 for Pegasos...

Although being a MorphOS-user, I'd really like to see OS4 on the
Pegasos - both competing on the same platform would certainly be a
good further motivation for the OS-developers. :-)
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 16 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Alex Klauke on 24-Jan-2003 19:49 GMT
Sorry to jump into your celebration.. ;-)

But there is one question yet, or clarification needed.

> (IBM will release 64 bit PPC in March, after the G5 (?),

Does IBM know that they have to hurry up with the PPC 970? Well, one could use the
Power4 used in the Regatta systems, they are availble for some time (the 'father' of
the 970, therefore 64 bit also), but I would not think that is compatible with the Peg,
is it? (and the Power4 may be a bit expensive for a desktop.. ;-)

And does Motorola know they will release the G5 soon, they do since, don't know,
a few yrs. already..?

Sorry just kidding, but it must mean March 2004, yes? Otherwise I would be higly
and positively surprised. ;-))

Seriously, sampling of the PPC970 is starting in 2Q 2003, right after March, mass
production starting somewhere within second half of 2003.
See
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/newsletter/dec2002/newproductfocus2.html

> and as recently announced IBM and AMD are going to do R&D together, etc.)

Yes this is starting January 30, sources say, maybe to harmonize the memory
interface of Hammer and PPC 970? (Which could mean competitive pricing between
Mobo's for both architectures, which in itself is a good thing as the Hammer is going
to sell in higher numbers than any PPC up to now).

> Of course, that means a Pegasos II, or a PegasosPlus, etc., etc.

Finally I don't think the Pegaos II is ready by March, 2003, (if so, may I be the first to
get one? B-) or you have been very quite about it, which is not your usual stance, is it? ;-)

Don't mind, it's really just the missing year that somewhat irritates me.. (no smilie here,
I already used my quota today..)

Ciao, Alex
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 17 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 24-Jan-2003 20:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Alex Klauke):
>Does IBM know that they have to hurry up with the PPC 970

I'm sure they do.

>Finally I don't think the Pegaos II is ready by March, 2003,

Who said there will be? March is CeBIT time BTW ;)
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 18 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 24-Jan-2003 20:05 GMT
Oh my god, I can not believe that some people swallow all that crap.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 19 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 24-Jan-2003 20:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Alex Klauke):
>> and as recently announced IBM and AMD are going to do R&D together, etc.)

>Yes this is starting January 30

Sorry, but that AMD and IBM are cooperating on chip technologies is quite "old"
news (Jan 8th, 2003).
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 20 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 24-Jan-2003 20:59 GMT
I bet the main thoughts behind the post was:

The previous post of wonders was not swallowed by the community, but if I keep on bombarding, they will swallow it, eventually. Why not, they swallowed the bullshit from McEven as well.

a) bamn, they noticed that the 64bit CPU does not fit well on the peggy CPU slot .... I ad "pegasos2" and it should now be ok...
(this really is not about upgradeability any more, I sell whole new motherboards here, but who cares)

b) damn, they noticed that pegasos really is not stackable ... somebody said microserver, ok I put three of those here ... and then the dual CPU card ... and I add "later rackable" thing (we really would need a new slimline motherboard that can be fitted in rack, but who cares)

c) I really liked AI's home server idea, I just need to recycle it... it was ok to them once, it will be again.

d) there is a amiga like development system, ah how clever, ahh I'm clever, I understood to add the element the AI was missing.

e) ofcourse there are freaks who want to play with yet another platform, I add them here as well.

+ we finally managed to get some OSNews attention ... better tout it now

2a) starts on pegasos (and stays there, we sell HW, not OS, but I avoid saying that too clearly)

2b) runs on Mac (but really not as an OS option, ofcourse not, we would loose HW sales .... heh, we even have this clever smartcard donglesystem,,,) same app on multiple platforms (like DE, except that without the ~10 year experience of Tao) ... (I hope they do not realize that everybody except pegasos users are left out during 2003)

2c) blah

jabbadabba blah we so clever blah blah PHOENIX blah böah TECHNICALLY blah


*******
another post ...

Someone asked: "Any news on when it'll run on an A1?"

Oh shit, I better cover it up quickly:

"we will support any A1 Distributor who wants to work with Hyperion to do this"

They really are stupid enough to not to notice that I answer to totally different question that was asked, LOL! (ofcourse we keep the MOS on peggy, we sell the HW not the OS)
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 21 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 24-Jan-2003 21:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (priest):
>b) damn, they noticed that pegasos really is not stackable

Sorry?
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 22 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 24-Jan-2003 21:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (David Scheibler):
meaning...
It's "stackable" as any desktop computer. ;-)
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 23 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Max on 24-Jan-2003 22:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (priest):
@priest

About the priest interpretation of the bbrv post:

"I bet the main thoughts behind the post was:

The previous post of wonders was not swallowed by the community, but if I keep on bombarding, they will swallow it, eventually. Why not, they swallowed the bullshit from McEven as well. "

Stupid see below.

"a) bamn, they noticed that the 64bit CPU does not fit well on the peggy CPU slot .... I ad "pegasos2" and it should now be ok...
(this really is not about upgradeability any more, I sell whole new motherboards here, but who cares) "

Damn totally clueless interpreataion. In an hardware engineering point of view it's possible, but it'll needs some bridge a'la Amiga PPC cards. So saying it'll not fit is wrong, it can fit on a Pegasos 1, but it's not the best solution.

"b) damn, they noticed that pegasos really is not stackable ... somebody said microserver, ok I put three of those here ... and then the dual CPU card ... and I add "later rackable" thing (we really would need a new slimline motherboard that can be fitted in rack, but who cares)"

Again clueless. Still in an hardware engineer point of view, you just have to put the cards horizontally, just just like what Apple have done with XServe so you can stack lot of MB in a small space. Of course this kind of application will need a special version of the MB. Btw this allow also to put the Pegasos MB in a rack in this case.

"c) I really liked AI's home server idea, I just need to recycle it... it was ok to them once, it will be again."

FYI there are lot of companies who have thinked of the idea you call "home server" far before AI. No this concept was not invented by AI.

"d) there is a amiga like development system, ah how clever, ahh I'm clever, I understood to add the element the AI was missing."

??? I think you put this one just because you didn't want to miss a point in the bbrv post. As it's completely stupid this one. It's not just a clueless interprettation, it's also a cleverless one.

"e) ofcourse there are freaks who want to play with yet another platform, I add them here as well.

+ we finally managed to get some OSNews attention ... better tout it now"

And? Are you also posting to say nothing?

" 2a) starts on pegasos (and stays there, we sell HW, not OS, but I avoid saying that too clearly) "

pfff again are you also posting to say nothing?

"2b) runs on Mac (but really not as an OS option, ofcourse not, we would loose HW sales .... heh, we even have this clever smartcard donglesystem,,,) same app on multiple platforms (like DE, except that without the ~10 year experience of Tao) ... (I hope they do not realize that everybody except pegasos users are left out during 2003)"

smartcard dongle??? It'll hardly be a dongle. Btw I don't see any relation between porting MOS to Macs and the AmigaDE concept. AmigaDE can run in multiple CPU platforms. In this case MOS will still running on PPC. So no similarities at all. Again a clueless comment.

"2c) blah

jabbadabba blah we so clever blah blah PHOENIX blah böah TECHNICALLY blah "

You should use Phoenix Developper Consortium as an example for you. At least they are far more clever and don't post clueless things as you do.

"Someone asked: "Any news on when it'll run on an A1?"

Oh shit, I better cover it up quickly:

"we will support any A1 Distributor who wants to work with Hyperion to do this"

They really are stupid enough to not to notice that I answer to totally different question that was asked, LOL! (ofcourse we keep the MOS on peggy, we sell the HW not the OS)"

Yes at least here you are right. It seems that bbrv have misinterpretated the question and have answered to: Any news on when AOS4 will run on the Pegasos. Or maybe he was not enough clear.

So priest, next time before posting, get more clues on what you comment and use a little bit more your intelligence (if you have some :) ). I think it'll help you next time to reformulate and understand better the things bbrv have talked and will talk about in the future.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 24 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Gerrit on 25-Jan-2003 00:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Raquel and Bill):
Hi Bill, instead of porting wxwindows it is probably better to get some licenses for modern PC games and port them. Something like UnrealTournament comes to mind :-)
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 25 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Not a Eyetech fan on 25-Jan-2003 02:47 GMT
At least Genesi can sort out something simple as t-shirts, not like wonderfull Amiga inc who expects people to take them seriously when they can not even sort oou t-shirt orders, that says it all about that so called professional company.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 26 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Not a Eyetech fan on 25-Jan-2003 02:48 GMT
At least Genesi can sort out something simple as t-shirts, not like wonderfull Amiga inc who expects people to take them seriously when they can not even sort out t-shirt orders, that says it all about that so called professional company.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 27 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Not a Eyetech fan on 25-Jan-2003 02:48 GMT
At least Genesi can sort out something simple as t-shirts, not like wonderfull Amiga inc who expects people to take them seriously when they can not even sort out t-shirt orders, that says it all about that so called professional company.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 28 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire on 25-Jan-2003 03:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Not a Eyetech fan):
heh, I hear an echo.

coldfire
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 29 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Not a Eyetech fan on 25-Jan-2003 03:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (coldfire):
Yes, Kemp please remove the first 2,

Thank you.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 30 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Jan-2003 04:33 GMT
We just posted this over on www.amiga.org and decided to post it here too. In part, we are trying to understand how many people use both sites and what the cross-readership is. For ANN we will add a few more notes specific to this thread below. The amiga.org post is #10 in the “Genesi is Busy!” News Item.
____________________________________________________________________

Hi Elektro, “57 channels and nothing on…” as you probably know comes from a song by Bruce Springsteen. The song was released around ten years ago. The comment referred to the American cable industry and the growing number of channels cable systems could deliver into the home. There were more channels, but no “decent” programs.

Cable changed the nature of television in the US (and other places too), but there were/are still many places that receive only three or four good UHF and VHF signals and “cable” has to physically reach its destination to provide a signal. Satellites are different. Today, a satellite television provider can easily provide 200+ channels. Echostar for example can reach all the US from four satellites and 91 frequencies. The same goes for various providers in Europe and the Asian/Pacific region.

The whole issue here is really “programming” or in computer-speak, “software.” We have computers, televisions and telephones to do something with them. Over the years, our habits have not changed, we just wanted more selection or at least just what we wanted when we want it. The telephone has evolved in the home from a “handset” attached by cord to a base station, to a “portable” telephone we can walk around the house with, to a mobile telephone, etc. There are countries in Europe with more mobile telephones than fixed telephones. Things changed, but people keep talking to each other. It is just getting increasingly convenient. Has the conversations improved?…;-) Would you consider a SMS message a “program?” SMS messages represented more than 25% of the total revenue of Wireless Operators in Europe in 2001! Sounds like something! Communication between two people is most basic form of “programming.”

The Internet is full of “nothing on” too. We need search engines to find what we want, because there is vastly more to surf than surfers. And, the Internet sea expands daily. You would be surprised to see some of the research we have seen about how people “change channels” on the Internet – it often is strikingly familiar to multi-channel television usage.

The bottom line is the Pegasos as a hardware platform (remember that is where the money is initially) needs “programs” to get people interested in using it -- the more interesting and different things that will work on the Pegasos, the better. More programs not classified as “nothing” may create demand from more buyers. If the cost of implementing those programs is less than the profit generated from the demand, we have a business.

It seems to us that the Pegasos can offer something interesting and unique to the market, but it takes two phases. First, we need to broaden the options of what is possible technically and then when things are ready re-focus on specific, but much larger markets. That is why we like the Phoenix association – it is an organization of like-minded technically smart people who can help us do that. For example, bringing Pegasos/MorphOS to the point were it can flawlessly operate as an Internet linked computer or a television receiver/DVD/whatever player and then (step two) promoting it to the high home entertainment center market. The television is what is always is, maybe bigger with better sound, but still a device to watch (did you ever stare into a campfire? – that was the first television!). In the meanwhile, the keyboard and the remote become more closely related and Google starts to feel like a program guide. You see, nothing new, just the same stuff better, more easily, etc. It is not “crap” Loki1, it is a strategic direction. The real question is can we pull it off.

Or, how about a handheld video telephone for that basic “programming” niche…;-)

So far, a component supplier has seriously delayed are plans. The facts and difficulties are well known. Nevertheless, we have continued to march to the objective we have set for ourselves and the Pegasos is being used by people who did buy it and do like it. For example, a testimonial was recently posted at GFX-Base and we do receive plenty of complements directly from users via email. The Pegasos and MorphOS are being used and are being improved. We expect this process to continue. By broadening the opportunity to other development communities increases the potential of the platform, the OS and the possible applications too, as something has to be “on” if we are going to be successful. Simultaneously, we have been trying to get the word out. We have attended shows all over Europe and the biggest one in the USA. We have show plans for the Spring/Summer and User Groups are starting to pop up everywhere. We will gladly support demos as we did a couple of weeks ago in Finland – just ask!

It is time for the competitive and divisive nature of this community to dissipate. Whatever was before has past. Genesi has no competition. There are others who are working on similar projects, good luck to them. The only competition we have is with ourselves to do our best to make Genesi successful. It is time to clean things up around here – forget the petty arguments. There are lots of new people that are starting to stop by for a closer look and the “programming” here needs to look good.

Sincerely,
R&B
____________________________________________________________________

@nihilvor What is the “hype” here? What is your more fully considered opinion? Could you expound a little? If you have something intelligent to say, we are interested in hearing your opinion.

@Anonymous 9/29 What is it that you do not understand? We have absolutely nothing against OS4 on the Pegasos. Any dealer with OS4 properly licensed can load and sell it on a Pegasos. What are we missing? Once we sell the Pegasos a distributor or a user can do whatever they want with it. You won’t see a EULA from us resisting that.

@Anonymous 10/29 Good ideas. What we are not doing, can you do? Want a job?

@Senex We are testing a couple of possibilities. It is too early to call that card, but we just wanted everyone to know we are not just sitting on our hands waiting.

@Alex We think you are mixing detailed technical information with general marketing statements. If you really want to have a technical discussion come to the next Developer Conference. BTW, we saw Dave Haynie’s post on the Phoenix thread too. Technical discussions are great, but really miss the point. It not technology, it is what you do with it! Our broad stroke descriptions are just that. You and Dave may be missing the fact that it is not the Pegasos or the OS that will enable the success of Genesi -- as an end in itself, it is a means to an end. You have also seemed to confuse some of the statements. IBM announced samples for the 64-bit PPC CPU would be available for March 2003. We never said there would be a Pegasos II by then, just that there would need to be as the CPU evolved.

@priest That is more like it. You had us worried, we were starting to think you were becoming a fan…;-)

@Max Thanks!

@Gerrit It was just an idea. In any case, we have to find someone to do it…we are not familiar with UnrealTournament, but are headed in a mass-multiplayer game direction.

There are over 2000 MorphOS “we have a present for you” T-Shirts in circulation…and 99.9% of them were given away for free!

Have to get some sleep!

R&B
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 31 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 25-Jan-2003 04:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (priest):
>a) bamn, they noticed that the 64bit CPU does not fit well on the peggy CPU slot .... I ad "pegasos2">and it should now be ok...>(this really is not about upgradeability any more, I sell whole new motherboards here, but who cares) Let's reread http://www.antibike.de/amiga/chat_bplan.html |1. Will there be a 64Bit PCI-Slot in next generation of the board?|1) A 64 bit PCI(x) version will not be available before Cebit2003.||5. G4 is more than enough for me, I'm just curious :) But what about G5 and Pegasos? Is it possible|to use it someday in the future (mayby cebit 2003)|5) CU Cebit 2003 ;-) This hints at a new revision of the board (most likely with Articia Sa) that was scheduled for CeBIT2003. Unfortunately with all the Articia problems and delays it becomes unlikely we will see that soon.I have word they are shipping their chip in summer 2003 so a possible Pegasos+ _could_ be ready by theend of the year. Also in Cologne 2001 bplan had a flyer featuring Pegasos' dual/G5 capability for 2GHzand beyond CPUs. People believed it would come with a legacy 60x bus for compatibility.In Aachen 2002 Pegasos flyer now only talked about "double G4 at 1.4GHz each (for now)". The benefits of a slot/socket design was broadly discussed here and in other forums and it came down tothe result that implementation of next generation chips may be possible, but in the end you would gainmore with a whole new motherboard. The advantage would be not the upgradeability but the extended productportfolio as we can see now with AmigaOne-XE G3/G4 and a planned March 2002 release of Pegasos with fast1.3GHz (?) G3 and dual-G4 which unfortunately hasn't materialized yet.Even the Articia S successors could not satisfy PPC970 bus topology and throughput requirements. In a side note - who else thinks it to be funny AmiGr mentioned "new g4/1.2 9and the even faster to bereleased in feb"? He seems to be right about that, if only when it comes to 3rd party offerings for Macaccelerator cards (by Powerlogix) scheduled for a Feb 1st release - a whole year later. ;)
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 32 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by tarbos on 25-Jan-2003 04:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (bbrv):
Good morning Rachel & Bill, is Eclipsis remotely comparable to the module approach inIBM's metapad? http://www.research.ibm.com/thinkresearch/pages/2002/20020207_metapad.shtml
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 33 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Joannak on 25-Jan-2003 05:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (bbrv):
Hi BBRV

(web boards) I usually follow both Ann.lu and Ammiga.org (and few mailing lists includign Amiga.one list). I have noticed that lately Ann.lu has had good S/N ratio even though there are some anonymous (+ clueless) individuals who seem to like trashing around. Ann.lu also has wider feed on news items, ao they usually appear here a lot faster than Amiga.org or those lists. AmigaOrg seems to be too full of off-topic wars and those mailing lists don't usually have a clue at all.

(Pegasos) That demonstration at Alt-party has definitely activated people in this country and there are more than couple people interested on purchasing Pegasos real soon (read: like last week or so). Unfortunately these production delays (lack of Mai chips, i understand) has hit in bad spot for us here.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 34 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Emil "opi" Oppeln Bronikowski on 25-Jan-2003 05:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Raquel and Bill):
Hi :-)
Sorry to make this public, but I think You're not reciving my e-mails :-) I've uploaded some stuff for You. Ask Mark for details :-))
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 35 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jan-2003 06:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Joannak):
Does anybody know who makes the final decisions about MOS ? Is it Laire ? The recent Genesi press statements start to worry me. They appear to be going in all directions at the same time, effectively going nowhere. I'd feel much better if I knew that a truely focused person controls the software side, and brings some discipline to it. Seriously, you can't just walk around brimming with enthusiasm and mumble about qt, tv, stb, wxwindows, etc. all at the same time. I'm aware that this is brainstorming but I hope that the Genesi marketing people are aware that they are starting to damage the platform with the publicly displayed lack of focus. I'd much rather read a single sentence: MorphOS is progressing nicely and you can find the project status displayed on our web site. That would be truly refreshing.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 36 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Jan-2003 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
@another Mr. Anonymous

During the Betatester period our statements went along those lines: “MorphOS is progressing and we are moving toward the commercial release. “ They were short and simple statements. Remember? Do you also remember all the screaming for a Feature List, which after that was posted it all started again for some statement of strategic direction. Ergo, there will always be criticism for whatever is done, it is normal. The best solution for us would be to receive constructive criticism. It is too easy to just yell from the stands at the players on the field. Next time, maybe you could offer a solution to the issue you have identified.

Anyway, more to the point about MorphOS. Ralph (Laire) is the brain at the center of the OS to use the analogue of the human body (or organ to organ system for our Pegasos Biologists out there). Ralph has a responsibility and so does everyone else, “from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body…” Thankfully, the structure is in the OS and an extraordinary amount of serious thought went into developing the foundational concepts and a plan for its future. Now, we are working to pull all this together and channel the talents and motivation of varied and separated developers, designers, marketers, managers, and interested users into a collective whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. This does not happen overnight and it usually advances in fits and starts with lots of trial and error.

We are not damaging the platform to any serious users or interested parties. The core MorphOS development team is moving along fine and the serious people will buy a system and use it as they desire. Interested users will ask questions – we hope we can find the answers for them. We are still getting all this organized and looking for people to help us do it. That is why we have been so busy lately on the threads (and it is working). As a step in that direction we are also trying to change the nature of these threads and bring them to a higher level. We are looking for a place where a new user can come and find answers without being called a “lamer,” as much as we are looking for ideas and people to help build the future Ralph and the rest of us are working towards.

@Joanna We are glad the Alt-party was successful. Now we need to focus on the Assembly Demo Party (http://www.assembly.org). We would like to sponsor a couple of Demo Teams and a website, as J-P Jokela suggested, “where people can announce projects, show progress (screenshots,demos), ask for help, share ideas etc. And maybe also host projects, or at least link to their websites elsewhere...” We know there is a motivated team in Poland ready to go. Can we organize a few more? The Demo Scene is something we need to bring back. A virtue of the demo long gone from the PC or Mac scene today is the optimization of the code. Good demos were small and produced miraculous effects. This lends itself to mobile devices…;-) Maybe, we could use www.pegasos.org for that site. We will talk to the owner.

Have a nice weekend,
R&B
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 37 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 25-Jan-2003 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (bbrv):
> That is why we have been so busy lately on the threads (and it is working).
> As a step in that direction we are also trying to change the nature of these
> threads and bring them to a higher level. We are looking for a place where a
> new user can come and find answers without being called a “lamer,” as much as
> we are looking for ideas and people to help build the future Ralph and the
> rest of us are working towards.

And your contributions are very much appreciated, just as much as I would welcome other developers, retailers, managers, etc., to make more high-profile posts to help improve the signal to noise ratio.

In the days to come, I'm hoping to find some time to implement a few features in ANN that will make it easier to find quality postings, and will hopefully lessen the impact of blatant trolling.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 38 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Amway on 25-Jan-2003 10:55 GMT
"The sale of Pegasos machines configured with various potential OS's seems to be a unique revenue producing opportunity and MAYBE a "new" way of "selling" the computer...like a multilevel marketing scheme...ding-dong...its not the Avon Lady! It is the Phoenix Man with your Pegasos! We could develop a whole tiered system...when you recruit ten Phoenix Distributors you become a Phoenix Flyer! OK, we will not get too carried away, but you get the idea... "

Great, pyramid selling, that's all Genesi needs to keep it looking credible.

*shudder*
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 39 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 25-Jan-2003 10:58 GMT
I'm a programmer and I really don't understand some of the things mentioned in this press release. Either the author's first language isn't english or it's intetionally vauge. For example the Mac "application" is pretty vague. Is this an installer app, a bootloader, a virtual machine to run MOS apps, or what?

I would also hail caution regarding so-called "cross-platform" toolkits like vxwindows. I've seen many "cross-platform" or "multiplatform" toolkits and they generally do not work well. Qt3 for example builds horrid OS X apps. Swing too. Cocoa makes the grade although many Cocoa apps still don't behave correctly regarding filesystem interaction. I really don't know what the implication here is, it it looks like running non-Mac apps with an Aqua appearance which generally is the worst possible combination.

I'm all for running MorphOS on Macs however, with their own MorphOS appearance. The easier it is to tell them apart the better.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 40 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 25-Jan-2003 11:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (anonymous):
GTK and Qt? <gag>
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 41 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 25-Jan-2003 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (strobe):
> I'm a programmer and I really don't understand some of the things mentioned in
> this press release. Either the author's first language isn't english or it's
> intetionally vauge. For example the Mac "application" is pretty vague. Is this
> an installer app, a bootloader, a virtual machine to run MOS apps, or what?

You know how AROS works on linux and FreeBSD, right? Well, that's what bbrv meant, with the difference that the user doesn't necessarily know that it's MOS. Which makes a lot of sense: you buy the _application_ and you can run it on Macs and Pegasoses.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 42 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Jan-2003 12:15 GMT
@Strobe I am responsible for the English -- an American living in France to long! Actually, what we were trying to say is that regular Mac Users are probably not going to go out and buy another OS for their Mac. Assuming they already have their Mac, they would probably be afraid to mess up what was already on their hard drive, as they would need to add a new partition, etc. I had YDL on my Mac for months and to be honest it was not "user friendly" either in installation or use.

What we were trying to suggest is that MorphOS could run on the Mac from somewhere other than the host hard drive of the computer. Having said that, we took this one step farther trying to recognize that it is what people can do with their computer that attracts them not the OS itself. That is why we suggested that it would be application (probably game) driven. The OS is on the CD too and the game runs from there. Naturally, this would be the most interesting when driven by an online portal to a mass multiplayer game “coliseum.”

Is that more clear? Thanks for the questions.

@Amway We were just trying to throw in a little humor. But, seriously, think about the “Phoenix Man” concept – talented people, low cost, highly motivated, profits enough to support growth (for Genesi and Phoenix). It could be a very interesting way to raise awareness and develop market growth. It could also tie into User Group development, etc. The “Phoenix Man” would have special support to become User Group Leaders, etc.

@Found on another thread....The Radio Shack idea is actually a good one. I had a meeting at Tandy in Fort Worth in 1990 trying to get them to carry the Cableshare set-top box. You may remember that Tandy had a CD-I player before Philips. Anyway, the staff is generally very knowledgeable and the store management training program used to be excellent.

Sincerely,

R&B
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 43 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 25-Jan-2003 12:37 GMT
@bbrv:

[Corresponding to what we were just talking about per e-mail, also the
other direction (German -> English) might be of interest for you. See
for example the following.]

Just to let you know what "Dietmar" commented in German at
Amiga-News.de regarding wxwindows/qt:

"In my opinion, wxwindows is much better, for three and a half reason:

1. wxwindows is using the native gadget-toolkit of the host computer.
MFC under Windows, gtk under Linux, etc. The programs therefore don't
look like an alien element and take optically part in OS-upgrades. A
wxwindows-program on MOS would have a MOS-GUI.

2. wxwindows is a free open-source project. For qt you've to pay
license fees if you use it in a commercial project. [...]

3. wxwindows has a broad basis: Windows, Unix/gtk, Unix/motif,
Unix/X11, MacOS, OS/2 (and embedded).

4. wxwindows is not just a GUI-toolkit. It is a classes-toolkit,
containing also more general classes. So you can create complete
applications. If this is also the case with qt, I don't know - that's
why this point counts only as a half one. ;) "
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 44 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Amway on 25-Jan-2003 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Senex):
Eclipse does this better.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 45 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Jan-2003 12:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Amway):
Thanks Senex!

@Amway Allan Havemose pointed us to the Eclipse (not eclipsis, but probably the same inspiration). Eclipse (www.eclipse.org) is an IBM sponsored/initiated project and we have been on the mailing list for nearly two years. We like the Project. It could be very relevant to the Pegasos one day.

Sincerely,
R&B
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 46 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jan-2003 12:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (bbrv):
@r&b

Then we are on the same mailing list then. You will be interested to hear that I am contributing to EMF.
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 47 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Jan-2003 13:23 GMT
Great!

@Joanna www.pegasos.org can be used to host the Demo Scene site discussed earlier. Any Sceners can contact us -- lets get a "gathering" going a pegasos.org.

Regards,
R&B
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 48 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Alex Klauke on 25-Jan-2003 18:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (David Scheibler):
> >Does IBM know that they have to hurry up with the PPC 970
> I'm sure they do.

So am I. But yet I don't think they will release the final chip within March 2003.

> >Finally I don't think the Pegaos II is ready by March, 2003,
> Who said there will be? March is CeBIT time BTW ;)

Well, BBRV only talked about March without specifying a year. I do believe to know that there is
yet one March to come _this_ year, isn't it? ;-)

And David, please don't take statements out of context to make an ironically (therefore the ';-)') meant
comment any more serious than it was intended to be. Or are you that thin skinned?

Sorry if I was not clear enough (I think I was).

Ciao, Alex
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 49 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by cAHVA on 25-Jan-2003 18:30 GMT
It would be so cool to see some scene-demos running on Pegasos in Assembly'03. Im so glad that Genesi wants to support the scene. Scene is the reason why I'm still an Amigist today. Its been a quiet time scene-wisely for a quite some time now. Pegasos+MOS could activate some sceners and demogroups to be active again! Wake up the bear formerly known as Amigascene so to speak ;)

I bet you meant Mawi or Potion when you mentioned interested polish demogroup(?). If thats the case, c00l :)
News from Genesi: Genesi is Busy! : Comment 50 of 58ANN.lu
Posted by Alex Klauke on 25-Jan-2003 18:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (David Scheibler):
"Work is expected to begin by January 30, 2003."

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/news/2003/0108_amd.html

(last sentence before 'About AMD')

> Sorry, but that AMD and IBM are cooperating on chip technologies is quite "old"
> news (Jan 8th, 2003).

I did not say otherwise. But 'announcements' are mostly made in advance of the real work starting.
And the 'real work' between IBM and AMD on this special technologies did not yet start, according to
IBM, which is the best source I know in this case.

Ciao, Alex
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