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[Web] Teron PX board for $499ANN.lu
Posted on 04-Feb-2003 20:28 GMT by Ferry100 comments
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Quoted from A.Org: MarkTime says "From http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard, YDL: $499.00 + Shipping They list an 800mhz G4. 800mhz, Teron PX motherboard, $499"
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 1 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 04-Feb-2003 19:40 GMT
Wow. Those Amiga-specific extensions to the firmware must be really expensive to account for the price difference.

Either that or Amigans are being ripped off. Again.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 2 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Feb-2003 19:52 GMT
I hope this puts some pressure on AmigaOne and Pegasos prices.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 3 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 04-Feb-2003 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
actually, if you follow the link it's $495 and it's a G3.

IBM PowerPC (TM) 750 CXe CPU
Mai Logic Articia S chipset w/133 MHz bus
Three 32-bit 33MHz PCI slots
One AGP/PCI (66 MHz AGP 2X or 33/66 MHz PCI) slot
Two 168-pin DIMM slots on board
Supports up to 2GB, 72-bit (ECC) SDRAM
Dual ATA 100 drive ports
Dual USB, PS/2, and com/serial (RS232) ports
Single parallel port
Support by Yellow Dog Linux

Mobo + CPU: $495.00
Tower, generic case: $799.00
Tower, Antec case: $889.00
1U rackmount: $869.00

Then they go on with updated specs, on another page. THAT page lists a G4 800MHz but there seems to be no new info on the price.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 4 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Feb-2003 21:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (reflect):
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/index.php?submit=hardware

Shows the Teron PX, as described with 800MHz G4, price $499.00

Like Eyetech they've got not real control over delivery and are bluffing "January, no, wait er... February" when the real answer is "Whenever MAI finally ship working boards in quantity".
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 5 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Argh on 04-Feb-2003 21:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Lando):
> Wow. Those Amiga-specific extensions to the firmware must be really expensive > to account for the price difference.

Yes, it is. It's called "Eyetech are the only ones who could be arsed to invest the time and money to enter into a development cycle to drag the near dead Amiga onto another stage." Nobody else stood up to do this, though it was obvious it was what was needed since years ago. Just because they don't manufacture the things doesn't make them bad. 90% of what you buy every day is redistrubuted OEM equipment/food/consumables/etc.

A new PPC machine and OS4/MOS is the only direction to go for Amiga. Unfortunately it is simply too late, there is not enough left of the "community" anymore. Just whining and bitching.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 6 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 04-Feb-2003 22:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Argh):
It's never to late...
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 7 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 04-Feb-2003 22:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Lando):
>Wow. Those Amiga-specific extensions to the firmware must be really expensive
>to account for the price difference

Not really. They OS4 enabler kit is available for 160EUR from Vesalia. So
660EUR for a TeronPX G4/800 that is able to run OS4 but just not called
AmigaOne isn't bad.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 8 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 04-Feb-2003 22:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Argh):
I've got the utmost respect for Alan and Eyetech. I've bought from them several times and their customer service and pre-sales and after-sales support has been second to none. They're one of the best companies I've dealt with (along with KDH datentechnik).

All I'm questioning is the 70-80% price difference for effectively the same product. Whining and Bitching (as you call it) is only to be expected under such circumstances. No way can the Boot ROM cost over $320. We're being ripped off plain and simple.

As I understand it, Eyetech lost a lot of money when they were funding the original A1-1200 design at Escena so now they try to recoup those losses by vastly overcharging on the Teron boards.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 9 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 05-Feb-2003 00:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (David Scheibler):
Bizarre; regardless of the value of the OS4 dongle itself, one would pay twice as much to have Eyetech fit it to a _motherboard_?

This "enabler kit" is an odd marketing ploy; it's also rather surprising that there wasn't a big announcement - or did I miss something? Or was I _supposed_ to miss something? Or am I missing something now? Should I care? Needle nardle noo.

Gregg
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 10 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 05-Feb-2003 07:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (reflect):
Actually, if you follow the link, you will find :-)

"Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard

Enjoy the PowerPC Linux ATXperience!

# 800MHz Motorola 7451 G4 CPU
# Articia S chipset, 133 MHz bus
# 3 33MHz, 32-bit PCI slots
# 1 shared AGP/PCI 66MHz, 32-bit slot
# 2 168-pin DIMM slots on board (up to 2GB registered SDRAM)
# Dual ATA 100 drive ports
# Dual USB, PS/2 ports, and serial (RS232) ports
# Single parallel port
# 10/100 ethernet
# complete board specs

# Ships with most current Yellow Dog Linux CDs


Please note: Boxer systems will ship mid-Feburary 2003. We appreciate your patience. Your card will be processed upon shipment.

Teron PX ATX PowerPC motherboard, YDL: $499.00 + Shipping"
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 11 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 05-Feb-2003 07:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Lando):
One of the things missing from the Teron board is sound output, but it hardly costs as much as the difference between both boards, including PPCBoot.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 12 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 05-Feb-2003 08:22 GMT
Oh shut up all of you. Be happy that you're not allowed to buy your hardware from "price gouging" dealers like Terra Soft, which they for some strange reason have to be if they're not interested in buying an absolutely meaningless hardware distribution license in order to bundle a commercially insignificant OS with their stuff. :-P

Sell AmigaOS.
Let people buy their hardware from wherever they bloody well please.
If a company like e.g. Eyetech would want to sell licensed/bundled systems, fine, but for heaven's sake - let people BUY the OS!

You know the drill: http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos :)
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 13 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Feb-2003 09:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Ferry):
The Teron board is also missing SCSI and Gigabit ethernet, so what? Or did you mean "is missing on the Teron, but not on the A1XE" ? In which case you're wrong. The A1XE is identical to the Teron PX in every fashion because they are one and the same board, just with a different ROM.

The Teron PX is a niche market board with a version of PPCBoot modified by Hyperion to run with the Articia chip & do various desktop-machine type stuff

The AmigaOne XE is the same board, but with, in addition to the modified PPCBoot, a dongle ROM that AOS4 will check for to confirm that you paid the extra money to Eyetech.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 14 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Numbchuck on 05-Feb-2003 10:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Argh):
"Yes, it is. It's called "Eyetech are the only ones who could be arsed to invest the time and money to enter into a development cycle to drag the near dead Amiga onto another stage." Nobody else stood up to do this..."

Nobody NEEDED to, as it's just bog standard kit being used anyway. The OS4 "eyetech" limitation is an artificial limitation. There's absolutely no technical reason why Eyetech need to be involved at all. If Eyetech dissappeared from the face of the earth Hyperion would simply need to find an alternate method of copy-protection.

Eyetech did not design the next Amiga, they just implement copy protection. Their role is superficial at best.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 15 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Argh on 05-Feb-2003 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Numbchuck):
>> "Yes, it is. It's called "Eyetech are the only ones who could be arsed to
>> invest the time and money to enter into a development cycle to drag the near >> dead Amiga onto another stage." Nobody else stood up to do this..."

> Nobody NEEDED to, as it's just bog standard kit being used anyway. The
> OS4 "eyetech" limitation is an artificial limitation. There's absolutely no
> technical reason why Eyetech need to be involved at all. If Eyetech
> dissappeared from the face of the earth Hyperion would simply need to find an
> alternate method of copy-protection.

You are using the present tense. You see no reason for Eyetech to be involved NOW. What I am saying is that if Eyetech wasn't involved in the first place, we wouldn't be anywhere now. It was Eyetech and Hyperion who decided to drive the AmigaOne forward. Many people were sitting around saying "hey, wouldn't it be nice if we did a new PPC Amiga and OS" but only those guys did it.

I agree that the alledged mark-up is high for what you are claiming they have done. (I say alledged, because of the questions being raised over the validity of the quoted Teron price above). However, if you go to any OEM for unofficial, unsupported or unpackaged version of commercial items you will also find a markup.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 16 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Numbchuck on 05-Feb-2003 12:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Argh):
"You are using the present tense. You see no reason for Eyetech to be involved NOW. What I am saying is that if Eyetech wasn't involved in the first place, we wouldn't be anywhere now. It was Eyetech and Hyperion who decided to drive the AmigaOne forward. Many people were sitting around saying "hey, wouldn't it be nice if we did a new PPC Amiga and OS" but only those guys did it. "

No really, check the timeline, Hyperion didn't get involved untill AFTER Eyetech halted the Escena-AmigaOne. The WHOLE time Hyperion have been working on AOS4, Eyetech were only relevant as a copy-protection VAR for OEM boards. Up untill that point Amiga Inc. were "working" on AOS4 and "on schedule and rocking." (ie: nothing short of a proposed featurelist had been written)

When Hyperion announced they'd like to begin AOS4, at that point and since then, Eyetech have been unnecessary. In retrospect, if Eyetech wern't around at that point, we might have a larger hardwarebase today.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 17 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 05-Feb-2003 12:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
I meant that the A1 price includes a sound/modem/joy onboard, and the Teron board does not.

I've unable to take the specs directly from Eyetech, I've been not able to access their page for all the morning, but you can check:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/22357
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 18 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Feb-2003 17:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ferry):
Sure, and before that Alan claimed the A1SE came with on-board sound. Once he started showing boards and people asked "Where's the sound hardware?" the tune changed, and it became an AMR card to be included with the "official" A1G3 but not developer versions, then an optional extra, then something Eyetech didn't recommend and don't even stock.

There is no reason why a Teron PX variant with extra hardware would be built especially for Eyetech, it makes even less economic sense than the existing arrangement. Expect a change in the reported specification from either Eyetech or Terra nearer the real delivery date of the PX boards.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 19 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-Feb-2003 17:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Numbchuck):
Let me put it very simply: without the help of Eyetech and Alan Redhouse efforts, there would not have been an OS 4.

It really is that simple.

People are overlooking a number of facts regarding the quote price:

1. The US does not have VAT. All European countries have VAT ranging from 15 to 25 %.

2. The price of OS 4 is not included in the Terrasoft price.

3. There is no distribution margin included in the price of Terrasoft as they ship directly to end-users.

4. Do you honestly believe that Hyperion has the manpower or financial resources to offer technical support to all end-users for the OEM price we will be receiving?

We need the Amiga dealers and Eyetech to provide technical support to users for the hardware and software.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 20 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Rob on 05-Feb-2003 17:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
The TeronPX/A1XE does away with the AMR slot so there won't be such an
announcment.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 21 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 05-Feb-2003 18:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
That's so wrong-headed I don't know where to start, Ben - so I'll do as the Red Queen recommends :

"Let me put it very simply: without the help of Eyetech and Alan Redhouse efforts, there would not have been an OS 4. It really is that simple."

Fair enough - you're certainly well-placed to say that, but if it's based on your reasoning below, I have to doubt your sanity or your honesty.

"People are overlooking a number of facts regarding the quote price:

1. The US does not have VAT. All European countries have VAT ranging from 15 to 25 %. "

Fudge. A1 G4-XE m/b from a U.S. retailer : $850

"2. The price of OS 4 is not included in the Terrasoft price."

What is the price of OS4?

"3. There is no distribution margin included in the price of Terrasoft as they ship directly to end-users."

But... why... who... urgh... splutter...

So why can't Terrasoft ship direct to prospective Amiga end-users? Answer : Because of an anti-piracy device that is of questionable effectiveness and is a major irritant to a significant number of your potential customers. What value are Eyetech adding to me, your customer?

"4. Do you honestly believe that Hyperion has the manpower or financial resources to offer technical support to all end-users for the OEM price we will be receiving?"

I'd much rather (and I bet I'm not alone in this) have the option of paying for support, or not, rather than paying an inflated price to cover support which I have no way of knowing will actually be worth anything.

"We need the Amiga dealers and Eyetech to provide technical support to users for the hardware and software."

How can you guarantee that they will provide this support? And what support can Eyetech provide that Terrasoft would not be able to provide?

I'd like to make it clear that I have no beef with Eyetech nor Hyperion in general, but this is a major marketing cock-up and instead of rectifying it, you just keep trying to justify it. I would like to think I could run AOS4 sometime in the future, but with these shenanigans, I can't and won't pay the premium to run it on a dongled Terrasoft board.

Gregg
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 22 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Janne Sirén on 05-Feb-2003 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>4. Do you honestly believe that Hyperion has the manpower or financial resources to offer technical support to all end-users for the OEM price we will be receiving?
>We need the Amiga dealers and Eyetech to provide technical support to users for the hardware and software.

Ben, is there some reason you couldn't offer a non-OEM version of OS4 that would cost a bit more (to cover some extra support activity, e.g. like Microsoft does with its operating systems - OEM costs less)? Users could then buy this, get support from their dealer (the one selling OS4) and you could use that little extra margin to cover any expenses that would give you?

If Terrasoft can really sell equal hardware at $500 and the AmigaOne costs $850 that practically speaking sets the price of OS4 at $350. Pretty steep. Twice that of non-upgrade, non-OEM Windows here. And Windows is considered very expensive. Didn't Bill McEwen say OS4 would cost less than a boxed Linux set at ExtremeTech?

Oh well, I always did agree with Seehund.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 23 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 05-Feb-2003 18:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Janne Sirén):
> If Terrasoft can really sell equal hardware at $500 and the AmigaOne
> costs $850 that practically speaking sets the price of OS4 at $350. Pretty
> steep.

Calculating that way would actually make AmigaOS even more expensive - don't forget that Terra Soft ship their Terons with a boxed copy of Yellow Dog Linux with support, which otherwise costs $30-60.

Then again, Terra Soft is one of those extremely wealthy Linux mega-corporations, so I suppose they can afford to actually support the stuff they sell... I wouldn't be surprised if they just bought out Microsoft's support department to cover the immense extra workload of providing support for YDL running on THE EXACT SAME HARDWARE even when it's not sold by Terra Soft. Imagine that! What's the world coming to? :-P
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 24 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Janne Sirén on 05-Feb-2003 18:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Seehund):
Okay Seehund, I'll sign. Finally. :)
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 25 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Andrew Deacon on 05-Feb-2003 18:59 GMT
I think some of you are overlooking the fact that us in the UK
pay more for virtually everything:-

A quick price comparison from Apple's Uk and US websites:-

Uk Power Mac G4 1ghz £1149.00
US Power Mac G4 1ghz $1499.00

Allowing for an exchange rate of 1.6 $ to a £ the Uk price should be £936.88.


Just a thought.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 26 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 05-Feb-2003 19:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Janne Sirén):
I knew I always heard a calm voice of reason when reading your posts, Janne! :)
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 27 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Janne Sirén on 05-Feb-2003 19:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Let me put it very simply: without the help of Eyetech and Alan Redhouse efforts, there would not have been an OS 4.

Ben, if part of your policy is that Eyetech needs to be paid (in sales) for their efforts in getting the AmigaOne done (e.g. the Escena co-operation), please say so.

I know the dongle policy has been veiled as something completely else, and that disturbs me like it does many people, but if you really feel you need to do this to get Eyetech compensated I'm sure many would understand and appreciate your honesty in saying that.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 28 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 05-Feb-2003 19:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Andrew Deacon):
> I think some of you are overlooking the fact that us in the UK
> pay more for virtually everything:-

Another reason to why restricting hardware sales to one distributor is silly and harmful.

Another thing, does anyone sell a licensed/dongled/bundled Teron PX for €/$ 800-850? Note Eyetech's site where it says:

"These prices [RRP €800 - PPC7451/800] exclude local taxes, shipping and (apart from the Earlybird offer) OS4."

Neither VAT nor AmigaOS seem to be included.

Be protected.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 29 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Opi-Poi on 05-Feb-2003 19:22 GMT
The answer (to me at least) for the price differance is
blindingly clear.

The market for amiga boards is still very small.

The market for Linux , even PPC , is much larger.
Though relativly small compared to XP/OSX.

The more boards that can be processed per order
to a supplier , the better the cost.

Eyetech can't do big orders ( we're talking 1000's/
10,000's +) until the market
for AmigaOne is much more stable.If ever.

They maybe cheaper 12 - 18 months down the line,
but do you want to wait that long?

At the end of the day you have to decide what is most
important to you.
If it is AmigaOS , then your only choice is AmigaOne
(for the near future at least).
If it is an inexpensive system you need , there are
other alternatives out there.Hint:-Linux/X86.

This is just my point of view.Hope it helps.
------------------------------------------------
Opi-Poi.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 30 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 05-Feb-2003 19:25 GMT
Before anyone jumps to any conclusions, Eyetech doesn't have any quantity of consumer boards available in the first place.

A lot can happen between now and when they arrive on the market, including corresponding price drops.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 31 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 05-Feb-2003 19:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Opi-Poi):
> The market for amiga boards is still very small.

> The market for Linux , even PPC , is much larger.

True and obvious, and a monopoly situation with "Teron boards and vendors allowed for AmigaOS users" certainly doesn't make this any better.

Nobody benefits from inventing an artificial separation of the market for the exact same hardware into "Amiga boards" and "boards for everybody else". Don't people think that a Teron board, or PPC hardware in general, is expensive as it is already, without limiting the market even further by saying "sorry, you may only buy *this* Teron board from *that* vendor if you want to use AmigaOS"?
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 32 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 05-Feb-2003 20:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Opi-Poi):
>The market for amiga boards is still very small.
>
>The market for Linux , even PPC , is much larger.
>Though relativly small compared to XP/OSX.
>
>The more boards that can be processed per order
>to a supplier , the better the cost.

Maybe, instead of getting the boards from Mai, Eyetech could just buy a bunch of boards from Terrasoft and add $50 for the dongle and $100 profit and sell them on - they'd still work out a couple hundred bucks cheaper.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 33 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 05-Feb-2003 20:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Lando):
" Maybe, instead of getting the boards from Mai, Eyetech could just buy a bunch of boards from Terrasoft and add $50 for the dongle and $100 profit and sell them on - they'd still work out a couple hundred bucks cheaper."

Makes me wonder have this Terrasoft actually sold/delivered any boards so far?
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 34 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Opi-Poi on 05-Feb-2003 20:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Seehund):
I understand your point.
If a company was set up to supply the various
distributors (Eyetech/those linux ppl - forgot name/yada yada...)
the cost would be very low and be carried foward to the consumer.
There's more freedom of choice also.

But this is not whats happening and it's unlikely going to change.

Piracy is not as much an issue in this and even Eyetech/
Hyperion have said this (though they hope it puts them off).

What Amiga Inc is trying to do , in my view , is take control of
the Amiga market which has been/still drifting aimlessly for years.
You need an iron grip on hardware software and distribution
(ie disappering stock!).
Perhaps they also need to reassure future partners/developers
that AOS/DE is a platform Amiga Inc have control over and faith in?

I have not bought any software for Amiga in a year.
I absolutly refuse to.
It's people like me they hav't convince back.

Tomorrow (ie AOS5) is about flexablity , freedom.
Today (AOS4) it's about credability and command.

I hav'nt read or signed your petition but I get the
idea of your opinion on the subject.And I wholly respect it.
I just hope that it's you that will be wrong and not me
otherwise we're all f*#ked. ;-)
We can't afford any more changes or failures.Again!

Again this is just my view , I could be wrong.
I'm no expert ;-).
-------------------------------------------
Opi-Poi
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 35 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 05-Feb-2003 20:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (JoannaK):
@JoannaK,

I requested Terrasoft to update their website, which still contained their original January ship date prediction. they did that, but they also told me that they are not going to do another announcement until mid-february. I took this to mean, that the release date had slipped once already and they wouldn't announce again until they had product.

As for the Teron PX, Terrasoft, like all the other's, hasn't shipped the Teron PX yet, but Terrasoft has shipping PowerPC motherboards they just aren't interesting in the Amiga market...like the BriQ and apple branded systems that they sell.

@everyone
I think that $380 dollars for OS 4 is too much, and I'll pass.
Maybe they should just charge a million dollars for the product and hope
just one person buys it....its about the same kind of logic as they are using now.

Seriously, all the arguments in the world about the need for hyperion/eyetech to recoup their costs don't mean a thing. Of course, they should make as much as possible. But $380 doesn't achieve that goal, because people will NOT BUY IT at that price. What price will give them the most revenue? I don't know, but I guarantee that at that price its OVERPRICED. They need to come down to get a volume of sales, I think $129 is about as high as you can go.

If that doesn't produce enough revenue, then nothing will, they should have thought about the market before they started. Its not the end users fault, ever....for not purchasing a product, and seriously, they can blame their failure on piracy if they wish, but at $380 they are begging people to pirate the software.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 36 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by reluctant prophet on 05-Feb-2003 21:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Opi-Poi):
> Tomorrow (ie AOS5) is about flexablity , freedom.
> Today (AOS4) it's about credability and command.

What AOS5? Hyperion haven't mentioned this? Last I heard Amiga Inc, it turns out, stopped developement at 4.0, and then Hyperion stepped in and took 4.0 over. Who took over developement of 5.0? Amiga Inc said it's one year away, but this reeks strongly of "on schedule and rocking" (read "bullshit")
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 37 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Opi-Poi on 05-Feb-2003 22:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (reluctant prophet):
I was refering to the OS's as concepts (as *neither* are out)
to underline Amiga's business plan over the comming months and
years.I thought I was clear enough.Obviously not.

Please note that Fleecy is currently drafting up AmigaOS5.
Oh dear , I'd better explain this carefully <<tut>>. ;-)

I read a *public* article in which it states that "...Fleecey Moss is
currently working on groundwork for OS5".
I understand that to mean that he is drafting the "concepts" into a
coherant and technical form for a developer resource documment.
Maybe there is early code being developed too , I don't know.
But things are moving.
I don't think I have misinterpreted this?

No , Hyperion are not working on it (OS5) at all , the've only signed
a contract for OS4.0 (but all going well they'll hopefully sign a
similar one for OS4.1/4.2/4.5.....) and continue the work.


I could quess at what/how Amiga are planning for 0S5 but that would
be just daydreaming and if misunderstood , cause a row.So I won't.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 38 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 05-Feb-2003 23:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"Let me put it very simply: without the help of Eyetech and Alan Redhouse efforts, there would not have been an OS 4."

Erm, Ben, there still IS no AOS4.0

Yes, there are parts in development, but unless you are telling us we can go out tomorrow and buy a system with AOS4.0, I stand by my point that at this point in time, as far as the cosumer is concerned, there is no AOS.40
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 39 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 06-Feb-2003 03:53 GMT
Wow, $380 premium. That makes WinXP pro look cheap.

I thought the license was supposed to be no-cost.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 40 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Feb-2003 04:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (MarkTime):
@MarkTime
My interest to their Linux-one (= terons) sales is only due it could give reasonably reliable information about real.life stability of those boards. When they have some (say 100) customers really using those boards are Linux servers (real 24/7 use, no hobbyist hometoys ) then I can belive that board is OK. And even then those lesser items (like USB, AGP*2 and audio) may not work 100% cause they are not essential to server use.

That price issue is quite delicate. They still have problem on honoring those year(s) old Packs and Coupons. I know both are officially AmigaInc.s only but I really don't belive they can just ignore/angry well over 1000 potential customers. (Pacs were sold about 800 and coupons bit under 1200 but must assume some have long time ago stopped waiting and got PC/Mac instead)
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 41 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 06-Feb-2003 06:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
#40 is mine (obviously..) Just forget to add name in time. :)
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 42 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 06-Feb-2003 09:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Dear Mr. Hermans,

You said:

"1. The US does not have VAT. All European countries have VAT ranging from 15 to 25 %."

The official Eyetech price is UKP 500 (w/o VAT), this is EUR 769. If 1 EUR = 1 USD approx., there is a difference of EUR 270 between Terrasoft and Eyetech prices.

"2. The price of OS 4 is not included in the Terrasoft price."

Neither in A1 prices, AFAIK. There's now a special offer to get AOS4 for free, but only if you buy an A1 before it is available, if you preorder one.

"3. There is no distribution margin included in the price of Terrasoft as they ship directly to end-users."

I can understand this, but you can get even a better prices from Terrasoft if you buy 10 units or more. I know it would be a simple discount, perhaps not a distribution margin, but EUR 270 of difference is already a BIG margin, more than 50% of margin over Terrasoft end-user price.

Best regards,

Ferry

PS: While I'm writing this, I've noticed the add of Vesalia, offering AmigaOne XE for EUR 649 w/o VAT :-) (I've been unable to find what CPU for this price in Vesalia pages)
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 43 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Feb-2003 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Opi-Poi):
"I don't think I have misinterpreted this?"

Not misinterpreted, no. I think a lot of people are so used to public corporations that they forget all Amiga businesses are private companies. There is /nothing/ requiring these companies to be honest or open, they can and do lie at every available opportunity. Fleecy lies whenever it is convenient, or if he is bored, or if he doesn't want to answer a question.

The only real obligations these companies have are to customers (that means people who actually buy something) and to their creditors. We know that Ainc doesn't fulfil its obligations to customers (order to ship in 28 days, written offer to cancel, right to refunds etc.) so they obviously don't take even these minimal obligations seriously.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 44 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Not a Eyetech Fan on 06-Feb-2003 11:17 GMT
Amiga users are cleary being ripped off and bastards at Hyperion are trying to cover it up,

I hope to f*ck the OS4 gets cracked to work on other hardware, screw you, i will pirate OS4.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 45 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Feb-2003 12:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Ferry):
> PS: While I'm writing this, I've noticed the add of Vesalia, offering AmigaOne
> XE for EUR 649 w/o VAT :-) (I've been unable to find what CPU for this price in
> Vesalia pages)

PPC750FX (G3) @800MHz.

That's just ~$150 more than Terrasoft's price for a PPC7451 (G4)... LOL! :-D
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 46 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 06-Feb-2003 14:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
osted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion (134.58.253.115) on 05-Feb-2003 18:30:06
In Reply to Comment 16:
> Let me put it very simply: without the help of Eyetech and Alan Redhouse
> efforts, there would not have been an OS 4.

We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

> It really is that simple.

Yeah, like the doggle means everything.

> People are overlooking a number of facts regarding the quote price:

> 1. The US does not have VAT. All European countries have VAT ranging from 15
> to 25 %.

Let's see here, if there was VAT at 25% that would bring the price up to $623.75 yet I see Vesalia's add in the upper right corner of this CGI page at 649.90 Euros BEFORE VAT. So I went to Vesalia and take to good look at it in USD conversion:

'LinuxOne' G3-XE motherboard with 800 MHz (IBM 750FX) G3 CPU incl. Linux (WITHOUT AmigaOS 4.0 license)
(Eyetech ) 803.05 Add item to your order 'LinuxOne' G4-XE motherboard with 800 MHz IBM 7451 G4 CPU incl. Linux (WITHOUT AmigaOS 4.0 license)
(Eyetech ) 901.05 Add item to your order A1.5-A1200 Interface: The bridge between the AmigaOne and the A1200.
(Eyetech ) call AmigaOne XE G3/800 MHz (G4/800 MHz optional) 'Early Bird' motherboard incl. Linux and AmigaOS 4.0 license. AmigaOS 4.0 will be shipped when available.

(Eyetech ) 862.71 Add item to your order AmigaOne XE G3/800 MHz (G4/800 MHz optional) motherboard incl. Linux and AmigaOS 4.0. Will be shipped when AmigaOS 4.0 is available.

(Eyetech ) 937.27 Add item to your order OS 4 Enabler for 'LinuxOne': Upgrade Kit to make the 'LinuxOne' AmigaOS 4 compliant
(Eyetech ) 170.33

OMG, you all are screwing people!

> 2. The price of OS 4 is not included in the Terrasoft price.

Doggle is going to run $170 ($136 if Vesalia is charging 25% VAT)? A USB doggle and OS4 is going to cost $136?

> 3. There is no distribution margin included in the price of Terrasoft as they > ship directly to end-users.

So let's drop the USB doggle and OS4 by half, $66 for a doggle and OS4?

> 4. Do you honestly believe that Hyperion has the manpower or financial
> resources to offer technical support to all end-users for the OEM price we
> will be receiving?

At ~$50 @ copy, your damn right I expect that. Or are you saying Eyetech's doggle tax is costing more then $16 to produce with profit?

> We need the Amiga dealers and Eyetech to provide technical support to users
> for the hardware and software.

Face it, your screwing your customers. In these tough economic times in Europe, youi actually expect the zealots to cough up that much for PPC running Linux? How can you sleep at night?

Dammy
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 47 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 06-Feb-2003 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (dammy):
@Dammy.
You forget one thing--- B.Hermans is lawyer (or law studet or whatever). They are trained to take away their clients money without loosing good night sleep or feeling any guilty of it.
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 48 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 06-Feb-2003 17:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (JoannaK):
A little bitchy, Joanna...

Maybe Dammy's question was more orineted towards "How can you sleep at night knowing how much you're going to lose on OS4?".

I'm not wishing them ill, it's just that I'm pretty damn' sure that this (alleged) anti-piracy measure is going to lose them far more sales than piracy itself would if they used only basic software protection, and the size of the prospective market makes this development a huge risk anyway.

Gregg
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 49 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Feb-2003 18:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Anonymous):
>PPC750FX (G3) @800MHz.

>That's just ~$150 more than Terrasoft's price for a PPC7451 (G4)... LOL! :-D

But then the G3 is faster when not using Altivec. Don't you remember Terrasoft's
nice article why G3 (back then with TeronCX) makes more sense then G4?
Unfortunately I couldn't find this particular page anymore... O:-)
Teron PX board for $499 : Comment 50 of 100ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 06-Feb-2003 18:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Gregg):
Please leave the economics to us.

We have been in the Amiga market since 4 years now.

I think we have a pretty good idea about the size of the market and what is required for a succesful roll-out (in Amiga terms).

Nobody is required to buy the A1 and OS 4 products.

The number of 380 USD for OS 4 is completely ridiculous and clearly demonstrates that some people don't even know how VAT works in Europe which is by far the main market, how distribution margins work and what the cost of customer support is.

To the best of my knowledge, Linux PPC is not developed by Terrasoft and is in fact free of charge.

Not so for OS 4 where all kinds of proprietary materials are included for which compensation is due to authors and various companies.

Morever, Terrasoft does sell directly to end-users thus eliminating a dealer margin of at least 25% (plus VAT).

And the idea that we can charge separately for customer support is completely ridiculous.

The Amiga market is by far too small to make this an economically feasible exercise.

Not to mention the fact that users wouldn't stand for it.
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