| Posted on 18-Feb-2003 11:21 GMT by Senex | 50 comments
View flat
View list | |
At the Melbourne Amiga User Group (MAUG) there's a poll who would buy Umilator (Bernie's Amithlon-successor) for upto 99 Australian Dollars if it would be available.
|
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 1 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Lasse Bodilsen on 18-Feb-2003 11:07 GMT | <sigh> another poll </sigh>
Well, count me in.
(read, already submitted a "vote") |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 2 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Elwood on 18-Feb-2003 11:29 GMT | | How much is it in USD ? |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 3 of 50 | ANN.lu |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 4 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bladerunner on 18-Feb-2003 13:23 GMT | But how should this work? Afair Amithlon (and so "Umilator") was bound very tight to the Amiga OS
and wasn`t there some special enhancments over the "normal" OS 3.9? I am not sure but i doubt it will be possible for such a low price including
the AOS. Another reason might be the Problems between the Ex Partners.. So I wonder what this poll would bring?!? |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 5 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kronos on 18-Feb-2003 13:53 GMT | >The following fields were left blank in your submission form:
>staddress
>city
>phone
>These fields must be filled in before you can successfully submit the form.
Real name and email ought to be enough ......
If (but I don't think it will) it becomes available I'll buy, but noway I'm
gone give away my personal data for what seems just like a useless poll. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 6 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Xeyes on 18-Feb-2003 13:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 3 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
Well gosh darn, I'd pay $150 American-$ if it were available. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 7 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 18-Feb-2003 14:13 GMT | I'm with Lasse. I'm not sure what this poll is really about.
I also agree with Kronos. It seems a bit strange that so much personal data is *required* to ensure each voter is a separate individual, unless the vote was to be seen as some sort of actual commitment. Name, valid e-mail and separate IP address should suffice.
Either way, I don't understand the purpose of the vote. That there is a huge interest in seeing Umilator released has never been in doubt, and this poll won't even reach much of the original target audience.
The price or included stuff are not an issue. These were set for the planned release last summer and would be the same if circumstances changed to allow release now.
However, the ex-partners would still be an issue, so I don't understand where all this is coming from. Certainly the product would still need to go through final testing etc., thus you wouldn't be looking at an imminent release anyway.
Don't hold your breath folks. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 8 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 18-Feb-2003 16:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 5 (Kronos):
"Real name and email ought to be enough ......
If (but I don't think it will) it becomes available I'll buy, but noway I'm
gone give away my personal data for what seems just like a useless
poll. "
Just type random data for things you don't want to reveal. The form
script will be quite happy. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 9 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Mekanix on 18-Feb-2003 18:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (Bill Hoggett):
> Either way, I don't understand the purpose of the vote.
> That there is a huge interest in seeing Umilator released has
> never been in doubt, and this poll won't even reach much of the
> original target audience.
How do you *know* there is a *huge* interest in getting Umilator released? 10-20 loud advocates doesn't make basis for someone investing some venture capital into this.
I think this type of poll is better than an anonymous poll or a $50 vitual t-shirt contest to get some more solid idea to a potential marked-size. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 10 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Mekanix on 18-Feb-2003 18:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 3 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
Hey, for that I could get myself a virtual Amiga T-shirt! ;) |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 11 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 18-Feb-2003 19:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 9 (Mekanix):
> How do you *know* there is a *huge* interest in getting Umilator
> released?
Huge in Amiga terms. Pretty everyone who uses Amithlon wants to see Umilator released, as the mailing lists would show you, not to mention all the people that expressed an interest here or on amiga.org.
> 10-20 loud advocates doesn't make basis for someone investing some
> venture capital into this.
'scuze me, but who said anything about anyone investing venture capital?
Besides, this poll is only reaching existing Amithlon users and the rest of our small Amiga community. It's hardly going to raise the sort of numbers that will make venture capitalists stand up and take notice.
Ultimately, until and unless there is *confirmation* that this poll has some real basis behind it, we're all wasting our time. So far, I have seen no indication that Bernie might have changed his stance at all, and I'm pretty certain his ex-partners haven't changed their position either. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 12 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by A.Scott Pringle on 18-Feb-2003 20:11 GMT | I can confirm the poll is legitimate. I was at the AUG meeting on Sunday where things were discussed with a certain emulator author. An Independent poll by a user group to assess potential sales to show to a software author seems like a good idea and was embraced.
If Bernie confirmed any involvement in this poll wouldn't he be asking for certain individuals to make his life hell again...
my 2 cents |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 13 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Mekanix on 18-Feb-2003 20:28 GMT | In reply to Comment 11 (Bill Hoggett):
> Huge in Amiga terms. Pretty everyone who uses Amithlon
> wants to see Umilator released, as the mailing lists would
> show you, not to mention all the people that expressed an
> interest here or on amiga.org.
Count them. There is what 20-30 persons posting on the Amithlon-Open list (don't know how many is supscribed)? Some 10-15 people here on ann, a few over at moobunny. And 5-10 people are the same in all those places. Don't know about amiga.org, don't read it.
But I sure hope you're right about this *huge* userbase.
> 'scuze me, but who said anything about anyone
> investing venture capital?
Ok then, how many users in this community are *still* gullible enough to preorder and prepay for a product? ;) |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 14 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 18-Feb-2003 20:42 GMT | In reply to Comment 12 (A.Scott Pringle):
Indeed, both the poll and MAUG are of course legitimate. That's not the issue really (although the amount of detail asked for is perhaps a bit excessive).
As for a certain emulator author's confirmation, I understand your point. However, such an approach would only be delaying the inevitable. I'm quite sure Simon and MAUG will already have been contacted by Lord Voldemort and warned of the dire consequences that will follow. :/
Seriously, the amount of interest has never been in doubt. This has been obvious on the forums, at shows and even in the previous poll. Indeed the potential market would be mych bigger, as it would reach people who will never hear of the current poll, but I'm sure I don't have to explain all that again.
For what it's worth, I've added my name too, but there are certain details I won't enter into a questionnaire, such as my exact address, telephone number or postcode, even with the MAUG assurance that they won't be abused. If anyone has a legitimate need for those details, they can contact me directly and ask. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 15 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 18-Feb-2003 20:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Mekanix):
> Count them. <snip>
Have you tried applying the same criteria to all Amiga subjects? If you did that, then you'd conclude that there are only a dozen or two people interested in Pegasos, and about the same number craving after OS4.
Not everyone posts. Not everyone will sign in to a poll, specially a poll that requires rather a lot of personal details about them.
> But I sure hope you're right about this *huge* userbase.
Come on. I said it in context. Let's say there are at least as many people interested as there are Amithlon users. That being the case, Bernie doesn't need a poll to tell him how the numbers stack up. He knows far better than we do, because he has the sales figures.
> Ok then, how many users in this community are *still* gullible enough
> to preorder and prepay for a product? ;)
? Who said anything about anyone pre-paying for anything. What gives you the idea that there is a need for capital at this stage? |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 16 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Mekanix on 18-Feb-2003 21:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 15 (Bill Hoggett):
> Not everyone posts. Not everyone will sign in to a poll,
> specially a poll that requires rather a lot of personal details
> about them.
Have I said otherwise? My point is just that when you say there is a huge interest in seeing Umilator released you really don't know. All you got to go by are those 30-50 vocal people (unless you know something that isn't public... like Amithlon sales-figures), and if advocates were a measure of size, then the Amiga-platform surely would be one of the larger ones! ;)
Best measurement would be Amithlon-sales minus those who'd refuse to pay another ~$50 for something they already paid for and minus those who've left the Amiga or lost interest in Amithlon/Umilator.
I think this poll is an atempt to go somewhere in between these two measurements.
> ? Who said anything about anyone pre-paying for anything.
> What gives you the idea that there is a need for capital at this stage?
That's how I read the anouncement on the AmithlonOpen list. Some sort breakthrough, but "someone" need confirmation that it's worth the investment in resources (time and money).
If you want to sell something you need capital to start with. And if it doesn't come from an investor/publisher it must be the users. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 17 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Raffaele on 18-Feb-2003 22:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 13 (Mekanix):
Mr. Mekanik was in doubt about the basenumber of users of Amithlon, capable to legitimate further development.
Quoting:
----------------
>Count them. There is what 20-30 persons posting on the Amithlon-Open
>list (don't know how many is supscribed)?
>Some 10-15 people here on ann, a few over at moobunny.
>And 5-10 people are the same in all those places.
>Don't know about amiga.org, don't read it.
Well, if you read on the site of Bernd Mayer about the reasons he closed down it all...
...Then you will see that he was upset for the fact he received a lots of contacts about to download upgrades of Amithlon from unregistered users.
I think that there are about MINIMUM one thousand pirated copies out there, if it is real the fact they are drying-out all his internet band quota.
If Bernd will make the choice to sell every copy "ad personam", via download on-line and payement by postal cheques... and every copy marked with embedded code, then he will sell a lots of copies and will avoid major piracy...
By the way he must perform another major task before.
he MUST rewrite all code to avoid legal suit from Haage & Partner.
They still are the owners of the copyrights of Amithlon, due to the hanging-rope contract which poor Bernd signed...
Bye,
Raffaele |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 18 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 18-Feb-2003 22:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 17 (Raffaele):
> he MUST rewrite all code to avoid legal suit from Haage & Partner.
Highly dubious that he would have to do that.
> They still are the owners of the copyrights of Amithlon,
Absolutely not. Haage & Partner own no copyrights relating to Amithlon whatsoever. What they had was a distribution contract, which entitled them to manufacture, package and distribute it, and required of them to be fully responsible with regard to customer support issues etc.
Any copyright issues involved would be with Harald Frank and nothing to do with H&P at all. This would be far from cut and dried since there is no valid contract between the parties.
Let's face it: if H&P were in any way certain of their legal position that Bernie has behaved illegally towards them, they would have gone to court already. However, I doubt very much they want anyone to scrutinize the contract and their compliance to it in any detail. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 19 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by hammer on 18-Feb-2003 22:55 GMT | | I'll buy Umilator for $99 AUD.... |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 20 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by VMC Harald Frank on 18-Feb-2003 23:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 18 (Bill Hoggett):
Hello,
no Mr. Hoggett you are wrong and what you telling here is
absolutely legal nonsense.
The contract Mr. Meyer has signed is still valid and was
*never* legally terminated by Mr. Meyer. Even if he would
do such today, he cant do that because of there is absolut
no legal ground for him to base such on.
As we have told Mr. Meyer several times, he is free to
discuse any of this legal matters with my companys lawyer
that already informed Mr. Meyer months ago about his wrong
acting against the contract. If Mr. Meyer disagree with
that, he can take also a lawyer and let so someone with
more knowledge about the law as himself explain his wrong
opinion about the current situation in detail to him more
trustfull as we could do.
And this time Mr. Hoggett is the last time, that i ask you
now again friendly to stop any of your false accusations and
missinformation spreading against our business in public.
For now, you are not legally involved in these mess, but if
needed we could change this situation shortly if this makes
you happy.
Regards,
VMC Harald Frank, Developer and Founder of Amithlon |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 21 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dammy on 18-Feb-2003 23:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (VMC Harald Frank):
How about a poll on how many of us are/will boycott any of Harold's and H&P's products because of Umilator?
How ya like that one Harold, more public damnation of you. Gotta love it, right? :->
Dammy |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 22 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 18-Feb-2003 23:40 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (VMC Harald Frank):
Mr Frank, please take your threats and shove them where the sun don't shine. You have absolutely no legal hold over me and I have no legal obligations towards you whatsoever. If you really think you have any legal grounds for action against me please go ahead and sue.
Otherwise, you can shut up and keep your lies about me and everyone else to yourself. I am sick and tired of being stalked by you on the net, and I am sick and tired of being threatened everywhere I go. Get your pet lawyer to sue me, and be prepared for the consequences. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 23 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 19-Feb-2003 00:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 11 (Bill Hoggett):
>Ultimately, until and unless there is *confirmation* that this poll has some
>real basis behind it, we're all wasting our time.
And by commenting on this article, you still are :)
Seriously, how long does it take to fill in the form? There's certainly nothing to loose, is there?
>So far, I have seen no
>indication that Bernie might have changed his stance at all, and I'm pretty
>certain his ex-partners haven't changed their position either.
*If* this is what I've heard about on IRC, this poll *could* make a difference. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 24 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dammy on 19-Feb-2003 00:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 23 (darklite):
If Umilator ever sees the light of day, I'm buying it as soon as I can get to the page. =)
Dammy |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 25 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 19-Feb-2003 00:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 23 (darklite):
It would take a bit more of an explanation than that to persuade me to put my full address, postcode and telephone number in a 'poll'.
As for the effectiveness of this whole episode, well, if anyone wants to persuade me privately they are free to do so. Otherwise, I see little reason for people to put their hopes up once more. I do understand the reasons why details of whatever might be happening are not being disclosed at this stage, but the whole approach is being mishandled. I'm prepared to bet whatever you like that MAUG have already received the requisite threats that always follow any mention of the product in question.
For the record, they have my vote, assuming they take votes that contain name and e-mail address only. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 26 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by tonya on 19-Feb-2003 01:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 25 (Bill Hoggett):
lol , not another poll guys..., as you all know people sign up on polls and doesnt pay anyway , infact as high as 90% doesnt buy it .
remeber the EPIC polls? , anyway this product should never come (umithlon)
and as all of you know it wont bring any good to the amiga market either.
pay the respects to the last developers on amiga and reject this POLL and dont use it. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 27 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dammy on 19-Feb-2003 01:54 GMT | In reply to Comment 26 (tonya):
Why should we not want it? It's a chance for a decent X86 Amiga that a fair number of us want and are willing to fork over our hard earned credit cards for. If your concerned about how it will impact OS4 sales, don't worry. I have zero intentions on buying it on a PPC.
Dammy |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 28 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Desmon on 19-Feb-2003 07:05 GMT | I was present at the user group meeting where this was first mooted.
I can't say that any poll on any subject will definitely sway any of the parties involved, but when there's so much at stake in this case and so little is asked of the persons being polled, I don't think any harm can possibly come of it.
As for the personal information asked for, I'll leave that up to the individual. I will say that I left all my details on the page, but then pretty much anyone at AUG or MAUG can find out where I live should they need to.
I'll reiterate though, what harm can come from this poll. It's not like there's any money being asked for or even T-shirts being offered. ;)
Cache Ya,
Craig. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 29 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Quantum Amiga on 19-Feb-2003 09:01 GMT | In reply to Comment 7 (Bill Hoggett):
Sorry Bill but you had to be at the Amiga Users Group meeting to know all the details.
You and I may know there is huge support for releasing Umilator but that is not universal ;-)
Instead of talking it down try talking it up :-)
Cheers :-) |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 30 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Iggy Drougge on 19-Feb-2003 09:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 27 (dammy):
So what are you doing here, save trolling?
All others, you can still buy Amiga Forever from Cloanto, so there's no need to get your knickers in a mess. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 31 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 19-Feb-2003 11:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 25 (Bill Hoggett):
>It would take a bit more of an explanation than that to persuade me to put my
>full address, postcode and telephone number in a 'poll'.
Then don't enter it, like Don suggested. I did too. I'm sure the people at MAUG understand you don't want to enter this information.
>For the record, they have my vote, assuming they take votes that contain name
>and e-mail address only.
ok then :) |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 32 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by darklite on 19-Feb-2003 11:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 30 (Iggy Drougge):
>So what are you doing here, save trolling?
>All others, you can still buy Amiga Forever from Cloanto, so there's no need
>to get your knickers in a mess.
Spot the irony in this one. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 33 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 19-Feb-2003 12:01 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (VMC Harald Frank):
Dear "VMC Harald Frank, Developer and Founder of Amithlon",
About my point of view:
The writer Bill Hoggett simply expressed his point of view
in a Public Forum, in Countries where exists the Right of
Freedom of Speech and ***without*** making any accusation
towards you and the firm you represent.
It seems clear to everybody who can read this Forum
that he was writing about a precise thread,
i.e. regarding certain circumstances
that the conditions of the contract you signed
with mr. Meyer could not cover.
Infact he tried to answer to a doubt I had:
i.e. that Meyer had to rewrite all Emulator code
in order to sell it by himself.
Quoting:
---------
>In Reply to Comment 17:
>
> > he MUST rewrite all code to avoid legal suit from Haage & Partner.
>
>Highly dubious that he would have to do that.
>
> They still are the owners of the copyrights of Amithlon,
>
>Absolutely not.
>Haage & Partner own no copyrights relating to Amithlon whatsoever.
>What they had was a distribution contract, which entitled them to manufacture, package and distribute it, and required of them to be fully responsible with regard to customer support issues etc.
>
>Any copyright issues involved would be with Harald Frank and nothing to do with H&P at all.
>This would be far from cut and dried since there is no valid contract between the parties.
--------------------
End Quoting
Mr. Hoggett can be blamed if he had reported unaccurate news,
but they sounds like other news reported into other sites
(there are a lot of docs in Internet regarding your contract
with mr. Meyer and things it contains or it ***could*** contain).
Certainly you can write mr. Hoggett reported the news in a wrong way,
but you must prove it first by providing the links to that news,
***OR***
report significant quotes extracted form your contract
between you and mr. Meyer,
in order to avoid misinterpretations and any further gossip about it.
***THEN***
The next step is to ask the moderator to delete mr Hoggett news,
if you believe mr. Hoggett committed any abuse.
I invite mr. Hoggett to provide the links where are the discussions
which reported that you of H&P have only distribution contract,
so we all can read about that thing.
If the news from these sites reported that, even if it was a gossip,
then mr. Hoggett can't be blamed.
However he can be blamed on this forum because he reported gossips,
and not reliable news...
So in the future he will be considered as reporter of unreliable news,
but nothing else.
***AND***
Regarding the so mentioned circumstances that the contract between you and mr.
Meyer could not cover,
I am pleased that you read and join this discussion,
because there are two scenarios I want to argue
with you....
Starting of scenarios
----------------------
I think you must agree with me the fact that:
***IF***
mr. Meyer will write another JIT emulator based on subsequent
compliances, i.e.:
1) Loader of the JIT Emulator based on GPL Linux loaders
2) JIT Emulator based on UAE JIT, which is GPL
3) Kickstart loaded by the owner of the Kickstart chips
under his own responsibility of owner
(and not included into the emulator)
4) Amiga OS loaded by the owner of OS Disks
under his own responsibilty of owner
(and not included into the emulator)
***THEN***
it will be a fully free emulator, free
of being distributed everywhere, and
that you can't bring forward any claim
about it.
***AND***
If Bernd decided to write another JIT emulator based on subsequent
compliances, i.e.:
1) Loader of the JIT Emulator REWRITTEN ALL BY HIMSELF
with new code and new code solutions
2) JIT Emulator REWRITTEN ALL BY HIMSELF with new code
and new code solutions
3) Kickstart loaded by the owner of the Kickstart chips
under his own responsibility of owner
(and not included into the emulator)
4) Amiga OS loaded by the owner of OS Disks
under his own responsibilty of owner
(and not included into the emulator)
This will be a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PRODUCT
and regarding on such this kind of product
***THEN***
mr. Meyer will own all copyrights on it
and he could decide all by himself if
distribute it for free, or to sell it...
...and that you can't bring forward
any claim about it.
-------------------------
Ending of scenarios
So, dear mr. Frank, I am curious to read
your opinions about these two scenarios...
And I think that other readers will be
curious too...
Best regards,
Raffaele |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 34 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 19-Feb-2003 12:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
> I invite mr. Hoggett to provide the links where are the discussions
> which reported that you of H&P have only distribution contract,
> so we all can read about that thing.
Please don't misquote me. I said H&P only have a distribution contract, and no ownership rights. VMC/Harald Frank is a separate company, and his ownership rights are another matter.
Regarding the statement about H&P, please read this post to the AmigaXL mailing list, made at the time when this list was supposed to be used for all AmigaOS XL queries. The post is from Markus Nerding, one of the "partners" in Haage & Partner.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaxl/message/27
When I said there was no valid contract, I referred to any contract regarding copyright ownership between VMC and Bernd Meyer. I don't have the URL right now, but I'm sure Bernie has already mentioned this as a fact on the mailing lists. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I have no reason to doubt him, despite the rants and threats from Mr. Frank.
Anyway, enough of this. The net is full of information regarding the whole sorry subject if you bother to check. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 35 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dammy on 19-Feb-2003 13:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 30 (Iggy Drougge):
No, I'm tired of seeing kneejerk reactions by short sighted individuals who think this will endanger their little hoped for project. BTW, just for your 411, I did purchase AF from Cloanto. 5.1 but I'm more then willing to pay out $ for Umilator.
So why don't you go crawl back into your hole and wait for whatever OS you think will lead you to heaven with 72 virgins waiting to marry you.
Dammy |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 36 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Raffaele on 19-Feb-2003 13:47 GMT | In reply to Comment 34 (Bill Hoggett):
I have Read it at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaxl/message/27
and about the misquoting, now I understand your point of view.
Reply turn all for mr. Frank, by now.
Bye,
Raffaele |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 37 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bernd Meyer on 19-Feb-2003 13:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (VMC Harald Frank):
And just in case there are any doubts:> The contract Mr. Meyer has signed is still valid and was> *never* legally terminated by Mr. Meyer.*That* is patently untrue. I gave notice of a perceived breach of contract, in writing. I gave 30 days to rectify, as contractually required. Then I even gave a few more days. Nothing was rectified. So I terminated the contract, for breach, in writing, in exact accordance with the contract terms.And while Mr. Frank's world view apparently doesn't allow the intrusion of such unpleasant facts, Mr. Haage himself is much less confused about what happened --- in the letter he sent me in late April 2002, he was explicitly wondering about "the real reason for the [contract] termination" (in German "...fragen wir uns nach dem eigentlichen Grund Ihrer Kuendigung"). So Mr. Frank, if you want to maintain that the contract was never terminated, you might want to ask Mr. Haage why he acknowledged, roughly 10 months ago, that it was.> do such today, he cant do that because of there is absolut> no legal ground for him to base such on.Interesting point of view, Mr. Frank. I wonder --- how many of the sales reports due (if the contract were still valid, that is, as you claim) did *you* receive by the (contractual) due dates? What percentage would *you* consider sufficient to be "compliant"? Is 10% enough? 25%? 50%? And of all the sales reports you have received, how many added up? And how many *didn't* add up? How many different ways can a *distributor* get simple additions wrong in sales reports before *you* would say they are not doing their job?Have *you*, Mr. Frank, ever requested information about the use H&P have put the free sample copies to? If so, have you ever received an answer? For that matter, has H&P ever taken delivery, as defined in clause 4.1 of our contract, of the parts you provided them with? Or, failing that, explained why they are selling a product they haven't taken delivery of? Oh, and have *you*, Mr. Frank, recently noticed the slightest hint of marketing? If so, feel free to share pointers. If not --- well, have a read of 5.4.1 of the contract you claim was never terminated. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 38 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Kronos on 19-Feb-2003 13:51 GMT | Seems they listened to me ....
No phone and address needed anymore, my head is counted ;)
Anybody noticed who posted this news ?
Odd .... |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 39 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bernd Meyer on 19-Feb-2003 14:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
Just to point out one minor mistake in that argument --- there is *no* contract at all between Harald Frank (either as an individual, or as "VMC") and me.There was supposed to be one. I entered into the whole Amithlon venture on the explicit condition that I would be paid for my time, at the time I did the programming. For months, promises of contracts as well as promises of impending payments were what I got. What I *didn't* get, however, was either a contract, or money. To this very date, there exists no contract between HF/VMC and me, and I have never received a single cent from HF/VMC for any programming I did.I hope that Mr. Frank has learned a lesson here. *If* he had actually delivered on his promises, the IP in the code I wrote would have been his, and he could call Amithlon "his product" now without anybody raising an eyebrow. And I would just wondering what an idiot would pay me to write code for him, and then give it to someone like H&P to distribute.But because Mr. Frank repeatedly broke his promises, *I* own the IP in my code. Which means that, all blustering aside, he doesn't. Which, for him, is a real shame, seeing as this means that if he ever wants to release "AmithlonXL" as a full product (rather than as a collection of to-be-paid-for drivers), he would have to replicate about a year's worth of programming --- by someone who is, by his own statements, much faster than most people.It also means that this whole mess, which would have been avoided if the agreed-upon terms of our cooperation had been adhered to, has become rather public, and has probably not greatly enhanced Mr. Frank's chances of doing business in the Amiga market.... Which, however, is pretty much the only market he *can* do business in (68k ASM hacks are not exactly in high demand outside that market).So, hopefully, next time someone tells him "I am happy to do the work, but you need to pay me for it, now", he won't just say "yes", but actually act accordingly, too.... |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 40 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JKD on 19-Feb-2003 16:39 GMT | | Heck...I'd buy it for $99USD! (What's that about $1m AUD? ;-) ) |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 41 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by dammy on 19-Feb-2003 16:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 40 (JKD):
Depending on conditions, I'm willing to, gasp, pre-order.
Dammy |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 42 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by l'Ours on 19-Feb-2003 19:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (VMC Harald Frank):
Please, please, please... shut up !
As H&P staff, you've already said null things and
you've already made enough sad things to Amiga community.
I think today Amiga's vultures has done the job, there's
nothing more to pick.
So, please, "passe ton chemin".
l'Ours |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 43 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 19-Feb-2003 20:15 GMT | Aah.. one of those "i'll sue your sorry ass"-stories...
Amiga world is becoming more and more "the bold and the beautiful".. sadly no bold, or even beautiful ones around. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 44 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amithlon Fan on 20-Feb-2003 01:12 GMT | VMC Harald Frank, Developer and Founder of Amithlon
More like "Bernie Meyer the TRUE Developer and Founder of Amithlon"
Frank please do me a favor and SHUT UP. and you Bill Hogtwat GET STUFFED. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 45 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Desmon on 20-Feb-2003 06:48 GMT | @Kronos
> Anybody noticed who posted this news ?
> Odd ....
Why so? I assume he read it on the AmithlonOpen mailing list, where it was first posted.
Cache Ya,
Craig. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 46 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Walter A. Miles, Jr. on 21-Feb-2003 05:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 20 (VMC Harald Frank):
In Comment 20, the Devil-Interloper of Foundering Amithlon accused Mr. Hoggett of
writing nonsense, repeated his unsupported assertions about Mr. Meyer's contractual
relationship with H&P, and finished by threatening legal action against Mr. Hoggett.
----------
The endless empty threats really get to me (apparently he's made another against
amiga.org within the last day). Maybe the only solution to his placebos is a dose
of the real medicine.
Maybe the MAUG poll should have asked who would help finance legal action
against Mr. Frank. I've always supposed that lawsuits would NOT bring about
Umilator distribution. Certainly, ZERO money would be gained by the plaintiffs.
Furthermore, it would be an ugly battle, damaging the peace of mind or reputation
of anyone remotely involved. However, considering the "Very Minor Character's"
continuing outrageous statements, abuse of ordinary users and likelihood that he
has bullied and harassed potential contributors to Umilater, maybe it's the RIGHT
THING TO DO. Perhaps there is a mechanism for civil action by users against
his obstruction of Umilator's release. Perhaps German criminal authorities could
be persuaded to investigate his harassing actions. Perhaps a sort of Better Business
Bureau or Fair Trade Commission could probe his business practices. Maybe if
things got hot enough for him, he would realize that a cooperative approach is more
in his interest.
I know little about German law, and I can't pretend to certainty that "Virtually
Marginal Company" can be curbed, BUT occasionally what is right coincides with
what is legal. Perhaps someone with a knowledge of applicable law or relevant
government or civic organizations can suggest other avenues to pursue.
Mr. Frank's behavior is so despicable, and the good he vitiates so great, that
the community may conclude that it's time for the "Viciously Mumbling Child"
(or "Verbally Most Contumacious") to get his comeuppance.
"Virulent Moral Collapse," anyone?
Walter |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 47 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 21-Feb-2003 11:35 GMT | In reply to Comment 25 (Bill Hoggett):
It would take a bit more of an explanation than that to persuade me to put my full address, postcode and telephone number in a 'poll.Hmmm...I filled in the poll earlier, and all I had to enter was my name, the country I'm in and an emailaddress!regards, |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 48 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Feb-2003 11:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 47 (Anonymous):
Yes, the folks running the poll were kind enough to take note of the objections raised and so changed the form. Some of the fileds are now optional, and a statement regarding the use of this data has been added.
There is now little reason not to vote if are interested in what might be on offer. |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 49 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 21-Feb-2003 12:08 GMT | In reply to Comment 48 (Bill Hoggett):
I see. I would have not filled in the poll either with that much personalinformation. And, yes I'm interested in the offer. :DI am a legal owner of AmigaXL and Amithlon. I bought it, and frankly I feelabandoned and screwed over by H&P, especially as far as AmigaXL goes. It is anexcellent product, which has not been updated at all, and it probably neverwill be. I currently am running it on QNX 6.2, and it is very nice, but someupdates would be appreciated, especially in light of the fact that myself andGod knows how many other people bought the damn CD.I have written Martin Steigerwald about updates, and all I get is the runaroundabout the lawsuits over Amithlon, blah, blah, blah! What in the hell does Amithlonhave to do with AmigaXL. They are two different products that happened to be releasedon the same CD. However, using the Amithlon conflict as an excuse to NOT updatetheir OWN product is really pathetic, and frankly pisses me off!regards,regards, |
|
| Umilator poll : Comment 50 of 50 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Feb-2003 13:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 49 (Anonymous):
> I currently am running it on QNX 6.2, and it is very nice, but some
> updates would be appreciated, especially in light of the fact that
> myself and God knows how many other people bought the damn CD.
What makes this galling is that the emulation itself is under GPL. It's UAE, and therefore the source should be available to be updated by interested developers and/or users, even if H&P can't be bothered to do updates themselves.
Sadly, even this aspect was abused.
> I have written Martin Steigerwald about updates, and all I get is the
> runaround about the lawsuits over Amithlon, blah, blah, blah! What in
> the hell does Amithlon have to do with AmigaXL.
Actually, there is a connection of sorts. AmigaXL also contains Bernie's IP, in the form of his GPL'd JIT compiler, and due to the abuse of the GPL by H&P (not releasing the correct source code, despite repeated requests to do so) they eventually lost that license too (it was terminated under clause 4 of the GPL terms and conditions).
However, it is hypocritical to use that as an excuse for not providing support and updates while at the same time carrying on selling the product. |
|
| Anonymous, there are 50 items in your selection |
|
- User Menu
-
- About ANN archives
- The ANN archives is powered by #AmigaZeux. It was updated daily (news last: 22-Oct-2004; comments last: 18-May-2005).
ANN.lu was created, previously owned and maintained by Christian Kemp, www.ckemp.com.
- Contribute
- Not possible at this time!
- Search ANN archives
- Advanced search
- Hosting
- ANN.lu was hosted by Dreamhost. Sign up through this link, mention "ckemp" as referrer and he will get a 10% commission on any account you purchase.
Please show your appreciation for any past, present and future work on ANN.lu by making a contribution via PayPal.
|
