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[News] SciTech Software Inc. announcementANN.lu
Posted on 18-Feb-2003 21:36 GMT by Gareth Knight195 comments
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SciTech Software Inc. and Hyperion Entertainment VOF are pleased to announce they have enterered into a strategic partnership which will see SciTech's SNAP(tm) technology integrated into AmigaOS 4.x which is currently under development by Hyperion for PPC based systems.

Click here to read the press release

SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 51 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 18-Feb-2003 23:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
It's clear you are upset because the OS 4 project is still very much alive and kicking and ahead of MorphOS in quite a few areas.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 52 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 18-Feb-2003 23:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>It's clear you are upset because the OS 4 project is still very much alive and >kicking and ahead of MorphOS in quite a few areas.

Yeah vaporware status.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 53 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Max on 18-Feb-2003 23:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (cheesegrate):
"Yeah vaporware status"

Yes I think we can add Amiga Inc and Hyperion in the Guiness Book of record to successfully achieved to keep so much people having faith in a a Vaporware for so long time!
They are indeed one of the best in marketing practices maybe not as good as Microsoft, but not so far away :)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 54 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Dan Andersson on 18-Feb-2003 23:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (SimplePPC):
And you just can't resist to take a "bait" from the morphos-team...
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 55 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by José on 19-Feb-2003 00:05 GMT
Great news. Just some very few questions:
1- It won't be as fast as a real native driver, but close, right?
2- What will happen when people start complaining this and that card doesn't work well, who will give them support?
3- Wouldn't it be better like it was, where people supported the Gfx card makers that "supported" amiga (giving documentation), and with native(probably more efficient drivers?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 56 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Dagon HELLAS on 19-Feb-2003 00:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (SlimJim):
SlimJim said:
"Your "Johan" is actually a girl, it's *Joanna* you know."
That`s why he made the mistake! :P I always believed that Amiga girls didn`t exist just like Santa Claus, :P until I met one! Xaire DS! :P
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 57 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Leo on 19-Feb-2003 00:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>It's clear you are upset because the OS 4 project is still very much alive and kicking and ahead of MorphOS in quite a few areas.

I only see ONE area where OS4 project is ahead of MorphOS:

On the Paper !
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 58 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Sum1 on 19-Feb-2003 00:17 GMT
Why keep making announcements? just do the Amiga users a favor for once and release products instead of talking all the time,

You can talk the talk but can you walk the walk?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 59 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by James on 19-Feb-2003 00:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (JoannaK):
Joanna

Why do you persist in posting FUD? you even do this over on Amiga.org
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 60 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Sum1 on 19-Feb-2003 00:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (James):
Joanna imo is one of the few who actually speak what she thinks which is great to see,

Instead of hero worshiping and blind following maybe Amiga users would be open and tell the so called developers to stop taking the piss.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 61 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 19-Feb-2003 00:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Dagon HELLAS):
LoL Dag! :)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 62 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 19-Feb-2003 00:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Max):
> Well it's clearly a marketing oriented announcement to try to keep people
> attracted by OS 4 so they'll wait for it.

Well, all announcements are marketing, there's not much use in making announcements about your commercial products otherwise. :) Nothing inherently wrong with that really.

> So yes that's garanty OS 4 to support ATI and NVidia chips (maybe as I doubt
> that NVidia gave anything else than binary elements to Scitech, so that their
> drivers are only working under x86).

SNAP seems to be 2D drivers only, and there are already open sourced 2D nVidia (and ATI, but that goes without saying) drivers available (Linux, XF86, and in contrast to SNAP those already exist in PPC versions).

Personally I'd prefer to see an initial support of the most commonly available and popular cards - if that means an earlier release of OS 4.0 - rather than introducing what looks like a drastic change of core OS components (either SNAP or P96 or both and God knows what) in order to support a boatload of ancient and/or obscure stuff in addition to what people actually use and want. Have a look at that list. MGA Millennium? IBM VGA compatibles? 176 chip-sets? 2D only? Big woop. :P

Again: Is this change planned for 4.0, or a later revision?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 63 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 19-Feb-2003 00:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (James):
Fud?.. Would you point out that FUD part?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 64 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 19-Feb-2003 01:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (JoannaK):
Expressing any skepticism or even raising any questions whatsoever about marketing = spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt about one product to benefit your own product - FUD.

We have our own unique definitions of common expressions in our "community", Joanna. Well, "FUD" is used that way among e.g. extreme Linux zealots on /. as well. Haven't you learned all this yet? :)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 65 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by The Dude says... on 19-Feb-2003 03:34 GMT
Hehe, I just hope this makes OS4 a more financially viable product because of this Scitech partnership. Nothing more, nothing less. Altho a faster release wouldn't hurt either.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 66 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by thgir haey on 19-Feb-2003 04:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (The Dude says...):
Oooh a strategic partnership at this late point in the game? They should have long since been beta-testing. At this rate, AmigaOS 4 will be out in time for Christmas2010.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 67 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by acg on 19-Feb-2003 04:44 GMT
Yeah, but maybe, just maybe Hyperion was given the go-ahead by thepatent owners, one "Amiga,Inc.", which I believe is a SOFTWAREdevelopment company, to raise funding to help them get over thehump and finish off development of AOS4.0.....It would help SCITECH to have another OS "host" their software,and they might be willing to pay for the development of that OS.So who would benefit?Hyperion. SCITECH. Even Amiga. Not to mention those waiting forAOS4.0 so they could run their old apps. lots faster, and havea window on the future..Overalll, if it works, it's fine. If no REAL PRODUCT comes out ofthis than it is another failed attempt. Somehow, this is an alliance that makes sense, and sounds moredoable or that it can actually be done.I would like to see REAL PRODUCT out there however.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 68 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Feb-2003 05:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Awww... you do not seem to know Joanna yet.

We all wanted AOS4 last february. We want the OS or at leats some sincere information about it's status.

At this rate you loose me as your potential customer.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 69 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Max on 19-Feb-2003 06:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Seehund):
"SNAP seems to be 2D drivers only, and there are already open sourced 2D nVidia (and ATI, but that goes without saying) drivers available (Linux, XF86, and in contrast to SNAP those already exist in PPC versions)."

If you are speaking about the NVidia Linux drivers, they are only partially open sourced. Only the XF86 module that communicate with the real kernel driver is open sourced. But not the kernel driver.
And this part is useless, it's just a stupid simply interface so that XF86 can communicate with the kernel driver which is not open source.

Don't worry NVidia take care to not let people access chipsets information. You won't see any recent NVidia chipsets drivers open sourced. (I mean a driver that support the chipset fully, i.e with all the acceleration. Yes on Linux there is lot of open source drivers for NVidia but they use standard acceleration and does not take advantages of chipset specific accelerations). Btw I hope they'll have also the chipsets documentation as you know AmigaOS is not working like Linux, Linux driver sources is not enough to make AmigaOS drivers. It require additional information about the chipsets. And this I doubt they've them.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 70 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Feb-2003 06:58 GMT
Weeee :)

Go Hyperion, Go Hyperion, Go Hyperion ;)

Amon_Re
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 71 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Feb-2003 06:58 GMT
To what AmigaOS release are these 2D drivers targetted at?
(4.0, 4.0bb1, 4.0bb2, 4.1 or ...)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 72 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Janne Sirén on 19-Feb-2003 07:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (priest):
>Awww... you do not seem to know Joanna yet.
>We all wanted AOS4 last february. We want the OS or at leats some sincere
>information about it's status.
>At this rate you loose me as your potential customer.

But that is the easy way out, now isn't it? You label someone asking relevant, but tough questions as a supporter of the competing product and you don't have to answer those tough and relevant questions... I call them non-answers.

We both know Joanna is no MorphOS supporter. Many people who know her know that. Logically if Amiga & co. can't provide her with a solution she likes (or constantly put her off in many ways), it is logical to look at the next best thing. She may become MorphOS supporter one day, but if that happens, it is only because Amiga & co. missed their mark...

A lot of good questions were posted in this thread, a lot that in my opinion deserve to be answered in light of past promises and announcements. Perhaps they will get answered, but if not, that is by choice.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 73 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Cybes on 19-Feb-2003 07:24 GMT
Excellent news Hyperion!

Good work on securing the deal, this will make MorphOS users left way behind in yet another area when AOS4 is out.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 74 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 19-Feb-2003 07:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Cybes):
>Good work on securing the deal, this will make MorphOS users left way behind in yet another area when AOS4 is out.

what prevents Morhpos coders from using these drivers once they've been ported
to ppc ? Morphos used/rewrote/reverse engeneered nearly everything from amiga
so there should not be a problem using these too,when Morphos is
amiga API/ABI compatible...
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 75 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by tonya on 19-Feb-2003 08:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (catohagen):
catohagen@:thats like breaking even more rules dood :)



the rest@:oh well , i have heard enough crap to last me for a week in this thread , it will be just as much provocacy (how the $#^$#^ do i write that ? :) ) even after the os is released, thats how the amiga community is now.

its kinda sad as it totally ruins the spirit we all tried to keep.

10 people can infact destroy dreams of thousands.

the bottom line is, is it fate.... WHAt iF ? (sorry..just seen TIME MACHINE again :)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 76 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 19-Feb-2003 08:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (catohagen):
They will not be 68k, nor warpup drivers, so why would they work with MOS?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 77 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Feb-2003 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Nicolas Sallin):
Did it occur to you Sallin that we asked Scitech to dual license the code?

No, it didn't.

Just another example of MorphOS developers living in their own universe.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 78 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Feb-2003 08:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
So, Ben, you decide to ignore all questions pointed at you?

Somehow I guessed that.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 79 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark] on 19-Feb-2003 09:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Anonymous):
Let him comment what he wants ... If he would comment it, then he would have done it ... We will get our info, when it's ready to be announced :O)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 80 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Feb-2003 09:12 GMT
Well, this is good news. I guess. Or is it really?

I don't really want to disturb your euphoria here, but I mean, how many graphic cards do you actually need? Personally, I only need *a single good one*! Give me full support for the latest ATI graphic card and I will be happy!

At a first thought this news sounded like a good idea. But in second thought; is support for more than a hundred old graphic chipset really demanded by any potential customers? I think not! Is this deal for free for Hyperion or does it cost money? If it was for free I would say "what the heck, go for it", but I think it does cost money! Could you then say that Hyperion is spending resources on a feature that really isn't demanded by customers? How about spending that resources to bring OS4 to an actual *release* instead?

Just my two cents, as they say ...
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 81 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Turrican on 19-Feb-2003 09:13 GMT
Dear Amigans,

the time will come when blind followers will see the day of light again. Then they will see how they were mislead.

The time is near now. Remember the words of the wise man.

Your avenger,
Turrican
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 82 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Feb-2003 09:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (priest):
@priest

> At this rate you loose me as your potential customer.

I never thought I would hear those words from you! ;-)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 83 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Feb-2003 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Anonymous):
This is not the place to address these questions.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 84 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Feb-2003 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (priest):
> To what AmigaOS release are these 2D drivers targetted at?

No one seems to know. And no one seems to have *a clue* about when OS4 might be released!

Ben Hermans, you have been asked this a hundred times now. Why is it so hard to tell us? Why is this so secret? Couldn't you at least give the community brief a status update of how development is progressing, instead of just "It's way ahead of MorphOS" and "The project is alive and kicking"?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 85 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Feb-2003 09:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (takemehomegrandma):
You are missing a crucial point but you're not alone in this respect.

Think embedded systems, not desktop for a change.

Now think of the massive multiplicator effect of being able to shave off say 10 dollars by using a lesser-known (ie not ATI, nVidia or Matrox) graphics chipset because that's all you really need in terms of performance.

It makes all the difference in the world.

This is one of the reason why I have cut back on posting in fora: you have to repeat yourself over and over again. How many times did I already say that for AmigaOS to become viable again we must branch out into other niches, especially the embedded multimedia systems like point of sales and kiosk systems?

Another key element you are missing is that SciTech continously updates the list of supported cards and that they will always be able to do this faster than anyone else because of their superior skillset and development resources.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 86 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Feb-2003 09:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
And what is it then?

You do realize that trying to hide the delays will backfire in the end?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 87 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Feb-2003 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Leo):
> I only see ONE area where OS4 project is ahead of MorphOS:
> On the Paper !

And you also have to consider that even MorphOS have "papers" for the future! ;-)

(Comparing papers is boring. It's not that difficult to "upgrade" a paper! And comparing papers vs. real products is meaningless!)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 88 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Feb-2003 09:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (takemehomegrandma):
A more appropriate format will be selected to do that.

Stay tuned.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 89 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Feb-2003 09:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (catohagen):
> what prevents Morhpos coders from using these drivers once they've been
> ported to ppc ?

Why would anyone want to? Give us one driver for a high performance gaming card, one driver for a cheap office graphics card, and one driver for TV output. Then much of the whole spectrum will be covered with a minimum of resources spent.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 90 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Feb-2003 09:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"How many times did I already say that for AmigaOS to become viable again we must branch out into other niches, especially the embedded multimedia systems like point of sales and kiosk systems?"

Sounds a lot like MorphOS, POS and all. :) I hope to see some nice competition there as well.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 91 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 19-Feb-2003 09:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (takemehomegrandma):
Funny.

You act as though I never posted an answer to you.

This is exactly the reason why I won't engage any MorphOS followers here or anywhere else.

You've completely closed yourself off from reality.

You have now decided that support for an ever growing list of graphics cards is not worthwile because MorphOS doesn't have it and happily ignore the valid reasons given why this is important in the non-desktop space where Genesi too wants to become active.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 92 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Feb-2003 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben, watch your blood pressure.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 93 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 19-Feb-2003 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (JoannaK):
If you want to imply we're lying, please do so, but don't cowardly hide behind omnious remarks.

For your info, the SciTech SNAP is available for Windows, BeOS, QNX, Linux *and* OS/2. Since the drivers are os-agnostic (as is said in the announcement), it doesn't really matter what list you use for showing what they support.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 94 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Feb-2003 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> Now think of the massive multiplicator effect of being able to shave off say
> 10 dollars by using a lesser-known (ie not ATI, nVidia or Matrox) graphics
> chipset because that's all you really need in terms of performance.

OK, that might be a fair point.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 95 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Feb-2003 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"You act as though I never posted an answer to you."

Now now, Ben, be fair. You do this all the time yourself, not even acknowledging a valid question or argument if you don't want or can't comment, insteading going on to dismiss someones posting based on some detail and a few vague comments how they don't know what they are talking about.

takemehomegrandma probably should clean his mouth in this regard, but so should you.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 96 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 19-Feb-2003 09:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (David Scheibler):
David, if you don't know the reasons behind certain events, why don't you just shut up?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 97 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Feb-2003 09:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
"If you want to imply we're lying, please do so, but don't cowardly hide behind omnious remarks."

Pot and the kettle, Hans-Joerg.

You too are guilty of this, latest incident being the one involving Ben Yoris. Hyperion has resorted to such "omnious remarks" often when it comes to covering the status of OS4, or commenting on the competition. Be fair.
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 98 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Feb-2003 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
> Windows, BeOS, QNX, Linux *and* OS/2

Which one of those are non-x86?
And which drivers are delivered as x86 blackboxed binary only?
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 99 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 19-Feb-2003 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> A more appropriate format will be selected to do that.
> Stay tuned.

OK! I am tuned. As allways :-)
SciTech Software Inc. announcement : Comment 100 of 195ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 19-Feb-2003 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Nicolas Sallin):
Before you post crap, you're invited to ask Mr. Kendall Bennet of SciTech about it. We have their agreement to put the emulator into the GPL'ed U-Boot.

Typical behaviour. Claim without proof.
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