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[Rant] Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much?ANN.lu
Posted on 22-Feb-2003 14:56 GMT by Mr. Brot28 comments
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- developers fight developers (Amithl*n)
- users fight users (MOS/OS4)
- users fight developers (flames, depression)
- developers fight users (want revenge)
- dealers fight developers

Why has community become so sick? Comments would be interesting and are welcome. Any please try to drop your anti-x/anti-y attitudes for a few minutes. Thanks.

Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 1 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 22-Feb-2003 14:12 GMT
It's fairly simple really and it's something I've seen in other communities...no product. What do you talk about when the thing you have in common isn't there anymore? You'll notice that the height of the slagging was when there was nothing on the horizon. Now though, I think it has calmed down a bit and hope it says that way.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 2 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 22-Feb-2003 15:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (KenH):
feels like there's alot of people who only posts things just for the sake of stirring up hot tempered users, too. People that left the amiga cause they no longer believed in it, and now come back to poke fun at their former friends.

I've met many of those, and I'm quite bored with the discussions that always arise. Every time they give praise to the x86 processor and usually talks down the choice of PPC.

Other times it's emulator vs real hardware, and then there's MOS vs AOS.
Cause really, the community doesn't suck. At our local usergroups, there's no wars like the ones on ann.lu. On the amiga websites in sweden, there's no wars either. For me, these wars doesn't reflect the current community at all, cause I've always been met with a smile and helpful people.

It's a shame that a few very loud voiced individuals have managed to make the community look bad. People that cannot accept that others have made a different choice than them, and actually liking what they have.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 3 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 22-Feb-2003 16:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (reflect):
I suppose one should assume ANN (and amiga.org) to be more turbulent than any
national/local forums. They're vastly bigger - and international to boot. Not only
different opinions, but also different cultures and vastly different world views
clash here (as well as different definitions on what is "intorable" behaviour

I agree that it will calm down as soon as products become widely available.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 4 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 22-Feb-2003 16:31 GMT
Hmmm, perhaps it was seeded way back in the beginning.......and has only grown and overtaken many facets over time.The history of Amiga is far more of being in troubled waters than since Commodore died.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 5 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Feb-2003 16:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (SlimJim):
these international sites are not alot different from IRC, where people from different cultures etc meet. But not even there are there too many of these clashes. I guess text in combination with long responsetimes can contribute some to these misunderstandings/impatientness.

If you have a live discussion on IRC with someone, you can quite quickly understand how this person thinks and what drives him. This is not at all easy on a forum like this, where you seldom have a lengthy discussion with anyone without alot of other people joining in with their 'short' opinions and without explanations to these.

a simple statement without explanation can escalate to a flamewar quite easily here, while on other mediums, people would ask how you came to this conclusion and work from there.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 6 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 22-Feb-2003 16:57 GMT
Perhaps some artistic member of the community could come up with a smilie-sized graphic that would be a button (like the kind you pin on your shirt). The button would say, in three lines: "This guy needs to GET A LIFE!"

The button could be shared for use on all Amiga-oriented, or any forum based website. Respondents to an initial thread posting could tack it onto the thread if the original poster seems "round-the-bend", or just headed there. :-)
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 7 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Leo on 22-Feb-2003 17:27 GMT
It's a community of "Insane" people.

-Insane because a lot are spending money and/or time with almost no income...

-Insane because they spend their time spitting on pc/win (that won't make
the Amiga comeback I'm afraid)

I think the Amiga "community" has disappeared with Commodore/Escom during
1990-1997: the only thing I see nowadays is "TRIBES" fighting each other
without any apparent reasons...

(And Yes: Im am also insane, otherwise I won't be here posting this comment ;)

But FORTUNATELY, I have been banned from every TRIBE...
Perhaps because I am not enough insane to spend the little money I have without any reason...
Perhaps because I have stopped spitting on the pc/win
when I saw it crash less times than my Amiga...)
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 8 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by mark on 22-Feb-2003 18:19 GMT
I don't think the "users fight users" is any more of a problem than on other platforms (or in general, on sites devoted to other interests). First of all, it's hardly unsurprising to find debates on debate forums, and whilst it is sad when this degenerates into flaming, you get far more of this on sites like Slashdot, or plenty of newsgroups for example. There's plenty of real products and events which Slashdot has to talk about, and if anything that seems to be the cause of more arguments, not less.

I think the problem is more to do with the potential for different points of view, due to different, potentially competing products being available. Ten years ago there wasn't much to argue about within the Amiga community except things like which game or application was better; now you have PPC vs x86, emulation vs classic hardware and graphics card vs AGA. Similarly on Slashdot you have things like Windows vs Linux; on comp.sys.amiga.advocacy you have Amiga vs PC; on talk.atheism you have endless debates and arguments about whether God exists or not.

But the fighting between companies, either with other companies, developers or authors is a sad problem:(
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 9 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 22-Feb-2003 18:37 GMT
Well, there are a couple of cases where there are discussion here, but the REAL threads usually get about 1-50 comments and the flame threads get 200+.

The majority of the posts are just childish and immature. "I like this, you don't, go fuck yourself.".. I mean.. heh.

Seldom are there constructive arguments and interesting posts. Has the mindtrust of the amiga community gone silent? I certainly understand why.
Not long ago, I used to read and comment here, but after seeing the responses and constant misunderstandings, flames et al, why should I bother? I'm so tired of this that I only read the news and not the comments anymore.. merely skimming through them..
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 10 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Not a Eyetech Fan on 22-Feb-2003 18:41 GMT
If find it very pathetic the way people do not like anything slightly negative said against any aspects of the Amiga and those blind followers and worshipers should understand why people like myself who is pissed off with listening to promises for years and nothing comes out apart from more lies and promises.

One day people will stop the useless arguments and attacks and just focus to the root of the problem, which is clearly Amiga inc and other Amiga companies.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 11 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 22-Feb-2003 19:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Not a Eyetech Fan):
I certainly have no problem with different views. That's the basis of a good discussion. However, resorting to childishness and idiotism at the first sign of an argument is just plain stupid.

This is not about people beeing negative, it's about the childishness in alot of the people posting.. if not childishness, then it's just done to insult people. That kind of action leads nowhere and isn't very constructive in the first place.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 12 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 22-Feb-2003 19:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Not a Eyetech Fan):
Oh and the problem is just with Amiga and Amiga related companies????

I think you must be blind to other companies also spreading lies and promises.

Look, the whole Amiga part did and said something that wasn't nice. That also counts for the Pegasos/MorphOS part. That also counts for every other company if you are objective here.
That also counts for countries and groups of countries and groups of people.

And why is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because we are humans. It's a known fact that humans can't behave themselves and think rationally. Everybody is guilty on that part (no exeptions). The important part is then knowing it goes wrong and setup a dialog to solve it.

In the book "The universe in a nutshell" from Stephen Hawking there is a nice little pun at humans. At that section he explains something about the universe and then says that when looking at intelligent life, little green men might be better because when it comes down to intelligent behaviour, humans have a pretty bad track record.

Realising that is so is the first step in handling more intelligently.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 13 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 22-Feb-2003 19:03 GMT
Two ideas:
1) We no longer have our old mates the Atari users to make fun of and spit at. Wars have always been a good method to contain internal conflicts. With no outside enemies, there is a risk of civil war.
2) Pegasos/MOS versus AmigaOne/OS4. This can't be overstated. Everyone in this community has hopes, expectations and doubts concerning this matter, and with two rivalling factors, the conflict is inevitable. Just about every flame thread on ANN stems from this, too, especially due to a loud but small troll community who are more interested in creating strife than in the merits of either side. I sincerely doubt that any of our trolls use either MOS or are particularly interested in OS4. Of course, there are some people involved, like Hermans and Bouma, who are quite good at stirring up the other camp, and BBRV, whose attitude is a bit too demanding for our small community.
Without the platform/OS argument, ANN would be a whole lot more silent. You don't see any Photogenics vs. PerfectPaint or SAS/C vs. StormC wars.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 14 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Aargh on 22-Feb-2003 21:18 GMT
It's simple. There's too many posters with the mentality of 12 year olds: People who think they can "sue" someone for nothing. People who have no experience of producing a major project. People who don't understand everyday company politics. People who once did some work in a field and think they know eveything about it now. People who have no idea how the real world works.

The golden rules are: 1) They are there to make money. 2) It is NEVER on time. 3) The competition will always say their product is better. 4) The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. And 5) everyone involved is only human.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 15 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by xter on 22-Feb-2003 23:59 GMT
Just remove all comments that are rude or insulting. Then we have to adopt a more nice way of communicating if we have something to say.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 16 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Some Farker on 23-Feb-2003 02:32 GMT
I said it before on Amiga.org, and I'll say it again: The Amiga would be better off "Dead". Lots of platforms are, and they have all experienced a wonderful renaissance.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 17 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 23-Feb-2003 02:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Aargh):

Here's to being human. I wouldn't want to be any other way.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 18 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 23-Feb-2003 03:16 GMT
The answer is, of course, that you're all too cheap to buy Macs.

Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 19 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Kal-L on 23-Feb-2003 08:22 GMT
Just to answer the question:
1: We are Humans.
2: We are passionnated.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 20 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by - on 23-Feb-2003 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (strobe):
If I wanted a Mac, I would own and use one for sure. But I dont.
If I wanted Linux, same, but I dont. I want some games, so I have
a Winbloaf box.

Its not about simply a machine, its about "the better" machine,
in these days rather "better machine by better OS", cause custom
technology has become impossible without tons of money.
Nvidia has money, so they, congratulations, came up with an amigalike
chipset called nforce1/2/3. Amigausers will never be there again, but
the OS remains to be at "our" hands, and other OSs still lack
lot of intelligence, flexibility and multitasking here and there.

So why are some wondering about fights, "Amiga" is close to religion/philosophy/politics. Its not simply a machine, but a dream
or ideal, and this ideal is in a desperate unsolved situation of a
sinking old ship with lack of food. So hardly anyone of us can feel
comfortable unless we reach an island of sort.
And if we don't reach it, so what, the fight for a finally clever
and fast machine will continue, as long as we can afford computing.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 21 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Druideck on 23-Feb-2003 08:54 GMT
Winbloaf LOL! I love it.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 22 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 23-Feb-2003 13:24 GMT
Q: who is inflicted with the Amiga curse?Q: Do they need to be or is it a redundant backup system of curse support?
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 23 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 23-Feb-2003 15:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Iggy Drougge):
I don't agree with your comment re: no SAS/C vs StormC wars....

We are just small, but compiler choices, if we had active, robust choices would be a huge subject of debate...perhapbs it would stay at an intellectual level to some extent...but you'd see huge discussions about such things in the past.

look at the Mac World...and see how Quark vs. InDesign is a hotly contested debate....oh and Macromedia and Adobe are always suing each other...real lawsuits, not just threats....and Quark and Adobe slag each other in public too.

This is a smaller community, and all the disputes feel more intense and personal as a result of the community being so closely knit.

Heck, its like a small town, we practically know everyone's names...

btw, StormC blows chunks...if SAS was still developing...sigh.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 24 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 23-Feb-2003 16:12 GMT
>Why has community become so sick? Comments would be interesting and are
>welcome. Any please try to drop your anti-x/anti-y attitudes for a few
>minutes. Thanks.

That's simple. The market has stagnated, hope has been drained away and frustrations are running high. The community keeps betting hope against hope that things will turn around, yet there is no real shinning light of hope that leads to the promised land. Add to the fact that most of those still in the market not only invested financially but emotionally into this platform and are desperately trying to hold onto the dream like a betrayed lover in denial.

As far as I'm concerned this market is "damaged goods", which is why I believe it is so important to bring in new blood into the market to build a future that is not tied to the past.

Make sense?!?

- Mike
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 25 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 23-Feb-2003 22:20 GMT
The way I see it is, the OS and the HW are almost ONE. The HW has to be the best available. Of course the common user could not afford to buy that. So, the best of low priced equipment has to be chosen. Then, the OS has to be the best that it can be. After that you buy SW for the system. Use it, all these small pieces of the whole, and replace piece by piece as a new and better one become available. That's up to you to decide if the new one meets your expectations, of course.

So it comes down to which is the best tapestry that a person desires/requires. For me it is Amiga, as it was, and is. But now (well, for a long time) I need more. windyohs HAS NEVER been able to satisfy my desires. Sure current apps, with thousands of features, and thousands of games, but I am not willing to function the way their OS expects me to. Besides its' instability and "just not fun factor" which is more understood than explainable, like being happy wearing an old shoe, than buy the new gawdy nike off of the shelf. Of course, maybe the very shoe that you have on now was considered gawdy at one time too. That's the way I felt when I saw the A3000 and A4000 cases the first time, and I still feel uneasy about them (main problem I had with them is lack of space inside to add HW). But I love the A1000, A500, and especially the A2000 which I currently own. All I wanted them to do, when they went to A3000 was release a case 3-5 inches wider and a little taller, for extra slots and extra internal HD or floppy storage, more ports, and midi. Same exterior though.

Amiga! I'm dissapointed but soon elation will arrive! Hallelujah!!
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 26 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by King Solomon on 23-Feb-2003 22:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Atheist2):
As long as Amiga OS4 remains in limbo, the users will remain in limbo. Of course since we are talking hundreds of Amigans in limbo, we are talkin hundreds of arguements. What else is there? No product = bickering, speculation and FUD. On the other hand if AOS4 was released tomorrow or next month. You would quickly see an end to FUD or negative arguements. Even if the product was buggy, yes even then, we Amigans would be constructively trying to remedy the problems or at least telling hyperion were all the faults lie to have them make the corrections.

We would be too busy tweaking, playing and just having major fun to care about petty quarrels. Besides, we would have a real product!
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 27 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by smp266 on 24-Feb-2003 07:58 GMT
Yes there are definetly tribes... I remember when there was a lot of argument about AGA versus 24bit chunky pixels. Big box versus little box.

Now there is the x86 camp. The exclusive run on windows emulator camp. etc. (Don't forget the DE camp)
Really we should consider ourselves lucky?? to have so many choices.

The real bad guy is the software Megacompany. I couldn't imagine them developing an app/game because it is actually useful or fun. They will develop to make $$$. And more $$$.

I am not the enthusiastic computer user I use to be, but perhaps in a few years new choices will be available. (We have DVDs now, who cares who won the video format war?)
Linux will win easily because it is free.

Imagine the stores, no warehouses - filled with Windows Apps and games that can't be given away. Maybe then Microsoft will wonder if it should make a better operating system and not screw it's potential friends.
And software companies will be sure to make their code cross-platform friendly.

Oh yes: Don't use swear words on any forum unless you know the reciever will take it in good humour.
I don't mind getting flamed. Although I might get mad at first, after my temper cools, I see it as good fun and nothing personal.
It is a shame when some people do take it personal.
If you dropped a glass of water and somebody calls you an idiot. It's a fair comment.
If everybody agreed on everything these forums would become very boring.
Forum: Why does this "community" suck so much? : Comment 28 of 28ANN.lu
Posted by MiRRoRMaN on 25-Feb-2003 18:03 GMT
I couldn't disagree more with the poster. What nonsence. I think the Amiga community has, and still is, giving me an extra reason to live.

To live without Commodore, that would suck. The Amiga community is like no other, people are always there for eachother to help out, a lot of software is being developed for free. What they just SAY about other Osses, goes for Amiga, and it's community. It's a loyal club of fans all around the world, it's given spice to talk about with people you've never even met before but are instantly your friends and codevelopers.

The Amiga community (or this one) sucking? no way. It's ruling the planet.

Just my 2 cts.
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