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[News] Pegasos I, II, and upgradesANN.lu
Posted on 25-Feb-2003 02:01 GMT by Phaidon (Edited on 2003-02-25 14:48:20 GMT by Christophe Decanini)50 comments
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Bill Buck and Raquel Velasco (sp?), Genesi, posted a follow-up note regarding the February 21st announcement which said "The Pegasos I will not have a G4 upgrade." Apparently, [and quite understandably, IMO] this has caused some confusion. According the the post on MorphZone.org, what was meant was that the soon-to-be-discontinued Pegasos I will not be "re-released" shipping with a G4 CPU, but that upgrade CPU modules will naturally be offered to customers who own a Pegasos I, and that Peg I owners can also trade in their Peg I plus $200 for a new Peg II board. [IMO: After all, there won't be much use in selling newly made Peg I boards shipping with a G4 module, when the G4/DDR/whiz-bang Peg II will be available, just like for example the Teron CX is discontinued when the Teron PX will be available.]

Furthermore, they write that OpenBSD now runs on the Pegasos, that when the fixed Articia is released, then the Pegasos I design could be used by a licensee, that "the STB 'deal' pays for everything", and that there are about 230 Pegasos I boards left.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 1 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Feb-2003 01:04 GMT
Doh! CK, how about letting submitters use common formatting/emphasizing tags like <b> and <i>?
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 2 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 25-Feb-2003 02:36 GMT
>but that upgrade CPU modules will naturally be offered to customers who own a Pegasos I,

Yeah sure IF some 3rd party will make them! lol. :)

>and that Peg I owners can also trade in their Peg I plus $200 for a new Peg II board.

How about all those poor suckers that preordered a G4 system on Genesi's good word? They will NEVER get them and now have to wait at least 6 months to pay EVEN MORE for something similar. Classic bait and switch.


And they are still advertising G4 motherboards which they DO NOT sell and dealers are still taking orders for G4 pegs that will NEVER appear because Genesi can't get the G4's working properly even with all thier April kludge chips. If that's not true, why did they cancel G4's!? Simply because they CANT get the G4's working in thier closed and proprietary design! But oh yeah, there is no MAI without April. That why you canceled your G4's and everyone else is selling them eh? lol

Yet Eyetech and Terrasoft both have G4 systems in house and are waiting for the production run to start so they can sell them to the general public. But just wait 18 more months so Genesi can find chips they know how to use for a totally new system. Unbelieveable.

We were sold a G4 system and we got a G3. Then we were told G3's are faster systems anyway, and some are stupid enough to believe it. We were sold MorphOS but got a STB development system and UAE. Now we're being sold a mythical pegII with as many hollow promises as the pegI neither of which are on the shelves and we still can't run AmigaOS on any of them. Hell i can get a Wintel machine and Amiga Forever with a 1000 times better software compatability than MOS's sandbox emulator and cheaper and faster than a lowly G3 by far! Who needs this? At least with an Amiga One you can will be able to get a dual G4 in a few days and OS4 (when Hyperion finalises it) and you wont be stuck in some outdated sandbox emulation with less useability than UAE! :P

GRUNT
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 3 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Feb-2003 03:15 GMT
Of course it has caused confusion by the amount of SPAM that gets written by bbrv the past days. no one can seriously follow so much crap specially if you are out for 3 days and come back home you can start reading 20 writings from bbrv and at the end you are more confused than at the beginning. why dont they simply shut the fuck up ?
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 4 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 25-Feb-2003 05:20 GMT
Miky060 has a 1 in 230 chance of getting one.

Amiga! I hope we don't trip up as well.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 5 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Feb-2003 07:34 GMT
Hello Grunt,

You really have missed a few major issues in your post.

1. We have NEVER accepted any pre-payment for ANY Betatester or Pegasos, G3 or G4. Further, we have never sold a G4 as a G3.

2. The G4 works today on the Pegasos and the Teron. The problem is it does not perform as it should. There are a number of reasons including the lack of altivec implementation and the inconsistencies in the performance of the northbridge. You can verify this through any number of sources. We even had a G4 at the WOA in the UK in November 2002. Anyone who ask about it saw it. It works, but not well. Why sell it like this?

3. Neither Eyetech or TerraSoft will begin selling the G4 until these problems are solved. As we have said, watch what happens. As much as we do not like Alan Redhouse or Kai Staats personally, we are sure they are not dishonest to their customers and will not make this critical business mistake (we did mention this in the not Mai without April announcement in December). Let time judge what happens next. Simple, just wait and see...

4. In the meanwhile, anyone can test the G3 Pegasos as it is running today against anything else. You can buy a G3 Pegasos yourself if you are a registered Phoenix Developer for $299. If you have some unique coding skills and we need you on the core MorphOS team you can have a Pegasos at NO cost (possibly even configured with a heard drive, memory, case, etc.).

5. We will provide a G4 module for Pegasos I owners -- we will no longer make the Pegasos I after we produce the next 400-450 (see the difference -- BTW, that number did not change - just remember we are "recycling" Betatester and April 1 boards). That means there will not be a Pegasos I G4 release, BUT we can still offer a G4 module. Alternately, Pegasos I purchasers will have the 200 Euro upgrade package to the Pegasos II (with trade-in).

Quick questions: a) when have you ever heard of an upgrade package that "good?" b) did you notice that this is the second time we have upgraded at no additional hardware cost to the buyer?

6. All this does not mean that someone else might make the Pegasos I. We will most likely license the board design with the new Articia (if it works as it should) to another manufacturer - like Plexuscom for example.

7. Finally, who ever mentioned 18 months? We will layout a new board with a new northbridge, in the meanwhile our developers and users are getting something very good, but not state of the art. MorphOS development, improvement, etc. will continue. The next Pegasos will be as good as anything available in the market for certain things and so will MorphOS. Just keep watching from the grandstands where you are...;-)

Frankly, Grunt, we do not need you or the other Anonymous Cowards lurking around here to continue to advance as we are. Everything is moving along without you. Have you noticed...;-) There are many Pegasos machines running MorphOS, Linux, and now OpenBSD IN the market. Your posts have no value other than giving us a chance to answer to your misconceptions and ill-founded statements.

@Another Atheist Miky is coming to Paris to get his board and discuss how to market the Pegasos in Italy. Where have you been?


R&B

P.S. We arrived this morning to find two new bank transfer confirmations from buyers. There are now 195 Pegasos machines left to purchase...;-)
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 6 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by derf on 25-Feb-2003 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
lmao

"Frankly, Grunt"

made my day that has :D
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 7 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Feb-2003 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
>Further, we have never sold a G4 as a G3. A pity, would be cool to order G3 and get G4. :-) >There are a number of reasons including the lack of altivec implementation So MorphOS is not "ready for G4" at all?Or did your "G4" lack altivec? :o) >We even had a G4 at the WOA in the UK in November 2002. Pix, please! Or shall we assume it's the old ZIF one which is known frombplan's ART gallery? >Simple, just wait and see... I am thrilled if Eyetech can keep their word and ship the systems this week.But then the G3-800 version shouldn't suffer from your mentioned G4 problems. >We will provide a G4 module for Pegasos I owners Produce a G4 upgrade in very small numbers that suffers performance problemsdue to Articia irregularities and no altivec implementation? You leave meconfused here. >BUT we can still offer a G4 module. I don't doubt your ability, but what is it now - WILL or CAN? >Alternately, Pegasos I purchasers will have the 200 Euro upgrade package to>the Pegasos II (with trade-in). I hope it is not another coupon story... :-) >All this does not mean that someone else might make the Pegasos I. All this does mean that no one else might make the Pegasos I?Please don't recycle flawed snippets of previous statements. >The next Pegasos will be as good as anything available in the market>for certain things and so will MorphOS. So SMP & Q-Box will be ready by then. too? ;-)
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 8 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 25-Feb-2003 10:00 GMT
"Ooops, they still remember we promised that upgrade and used it as a marketing advantage ..."
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 9 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 25-Feb-2003 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
@bbrv

No not another, just part of my e-mail address atheist2@shaw.ca.

Amiga! Questions, answers, truth somewhere in the middle?
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 10 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Feb-2003 10:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
Thanks for the clarifications.

Just a side-note; while IMO Redhouse is a boorish, abusive and obviously technically incompetent clown, I wonder what you've got against Staats?

Staats has always come across to me like a helpful, knowledgeable and honest person, not at all the used-car-salesman and total lack of competence and social refinement type of person that Redhouse is. Also, while Eyetech/Redhouse continues to lie and swerve as usual about just about anything regarding the Teron boards, Terra Soft has handled everything professionally, never making unfounded promises and statements, and never taking undue credit, and never starting mudslinging campaigns using totally irrelevant things like financial statements of competitors (who aren't even competitors, since Alan's just a salesman for other companies' stuff, could just as well be Pegasoses or chewing gum. After I learned of the Terons being marketed as "AmigaOnes", I browsed that "AmigaOne" Yahoo group he's posting in, and it's an emabarrasing read).

A piece of advice, don't try to emulate the Redhousish treatment of people in public. While "AmiTroll" above doesn't deserve better, your responses will always be interpreted by a wider audience no matter if they're the well-deserved target of your replies or not.

/Anonymous, as people would think I'm speaking for my employer otherwise... ;)
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 11 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Feb-2003 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
@Anonymous 211.108.90.4

We understand this reason for being "anonymous" -- it is just the senseless, baseless name calling and FUD that drives these threads into the ground (example Anonymous 217.82.103.169, who is probably someone who would be extremely embarassed if everyone knew who he really was).

Anyway, we won't be posting anything more about Kai. He comes from a great family. We just do not see him as a partner any longer. Eyetech should beware. Kai has an Amiga background and did not label the Teron as a Boxer for nothing....;-)

Now, we all need to get back to work!

R&B
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 12 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Klaus on 25-Feb-2003 12:09 GMT
ddr??? double data rates does NOT mean ddr ram, i think. any comments?
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 13 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Klaus on 25-Feb-2003 12:09 GMT
ddr??? double data rates does NOT mean ddr ram, i think. any comments?
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 14 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 25-Feb-2003 12:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
Anon, you just do what I do (it is widely known by most people on this board that I work for e.p.i.c Interactive) - you add a disclaimer stating your opinions here are yours and not neccesarily those of your employer.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 15 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 25-Feb-2003 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (bbrv):
oh criminy, does everyone have an amiga background....

Why bring up images of the failed boxer effort and antigravity?
some kind of reverse psychology anti-marketing effort? Just a strange sense
of humor, is my guess.

for what reason has Kai pulled the price from his webpage? Surely he knows that not as many pre-orders of AmigaONE's were cancelled, as otherwise sure would have been cancelled.

Finally, judging by the price of $799US for an entire system compared to eyetech's over $800 for just the motherboard, we can still infer that Terrasoft will come in at a much better pricepoint.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 16 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 25-Feb-2003 13:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 ([JC]):
While I think its ok that people can post anonymosly I mostly take those posts less serious than posts by people using their real name/email.

Offcourse some people use the same nick everywhere and thereby earn some respect because they are a known poster, but other anonymos posters could easily risc to be mis-judged as trolls.

Another thing that would be nice, was if people associated with either Amiga or Genesi (or other companies) stated that in their signature.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 17 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 25-Feb-2003 14:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Klaus):
@klaus,

ya, I have a comment: your are a moron.

:-) Just kidding Klaus, I was just taking advantage of ann's more liberal posting policy. FREEDOM....whew...

DDR stands for dance dance revolution, but if you have to be all geeky about it, double-data rate....yes RAM, what else. I haven't bothered to read any 'insider' information, but it was speculated on ann the other day, that this is based on the marvell discovery II chip, which does support DDR ram, but does not support AGP graphics...at least still waiting for clarification on
how they intend to support AGP graphics....one very creative fellow suggested
they could fashion an AGP 2x to 66mhz - 64bit PCI kludge of some kind.
Perhaps...its all speculation, I guess the only important thing is they don't list AGP as a feature on the peg2.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 18 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Senex (Martin Heine) on 25-Feb-2003 14:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Troels Ersking):
@Troels

I agree completely with you.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 19 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 25-Feb-2003 15:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
"You really have missed a few major issues in your post."
Well well well. Its funny how everyone else missies things but you do not.

"1. We have NEVER accepted any pre-payment for ANY Betatester or Pegasos, G3 or G4. Further, we have never sold a G4 as a G3."
Right. But this is not the same as what actually happened is it Billy boy. You promised people they could run a G4 and people bought your idea. Now, as usual, your promises are not what they seem, and people can run a G3 which according to you is better than a G4. Perhaps it is, but not in my outlook. If thats down to your system from a technical standpoint, then hard luck and better luck next time. Now explain in detail to every customer why you either misled or lied on the issue. They deserve an explanation.

"2. The G4 works today on the Pegasos and the Teron. The problem is it does not perform as it should. There are a number of reasons including the lack of altivec implementation and the inconsistencies in the performance of the northbridge. You can verify this through any number of sources. We even had a G4 at the WOA in the UK in November 2002. Anyone who ask about it saw it. It works, but not well. Why sell it like this?"

Well, the technical issues are not the fault of the customer. You'd make a fvcking good second hand car salesman. Mind you second hand motherboard salesmen are just as dubious..
Why sell like this? Perhaps could it be that you said you would produce such a system. And you did'nt. And you can't.

"3. Neither Eyetech or TerraSoft will begin selling the G4 until these problems are solved. As we have said, watch what happens. As much as we do not like Alan Redhouse or Kai Staats personally, we are sure they are not dishonest to their customers and will not make this critical business mistake (we did mention this in the not Mai without April announcement in December). Let time judge what happens next. Simple, just wait and see..."

Well, MAYBE they won't solve the problems. MAYBE they have messed up. But look at your behaviour. You carried out this stupid, idiotic, unprofessional 'No MAI without April' stunt, and even then you now have found that April 1st without April 2 is a bit of an issue. Course, if you operate by APRIL fools then you are asking for it ain't ya.

"4. In the meanwhile, anyone can test the G3 Pegasos as it is running today against anything else. You can buy a G3 Pegasos yourself if you are a registered Phoenix Developer for $299. If you have some unique coding skills and we need you on the core MorphOS team you can have a Pegasos at NO cost (possibly even configured with a heard drive, memory, case, etc.)."

Well, there you have it. You can have these systems for free if ya face fits. That includes the dodgy April 1, and the NEW, FANTASTIC, ALL SINGIN, ALL DANCIN, April 2. But even with the april 2, we made such a complete arse of ourselves after all our claims, well, we figured we would promise a brand new system for you to drool over while we try and get rid of the broke **Cough cough cough*** I mean older Pegasos 1s.

"5. We will provide a G4 module for Pegasos I owners -- we will no longer make the Pegasos I after we produce the next 400-450 (see the difference -- BTW, that number did not change - just remember we are "recycling" Betatester and April 1 boards). That means there will not be a Pegasos I G4 release, BUT we can still offer a G4 module. Alternately, Pegasos I purchasers will have the 200 Euro upgrade package to the Pegasos II (with trade-in)."

Ahhhhhhh I get ya, so you are not going to sell a G4 pegasos because it would be bad for us, ahem, but you mean you will. Right. Great.

"Quick questions: a) when have you ever heard of an upgrade package that "good?" b) did you notice that this is the second time we have upgraded at no additional hardware cost to the buyer?"

Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahah Oh you are just becoming my favourite comedien :) Please PLEASE KEEP IT COMING.

"6. All this does not mean that someone else might make the Pegasos I. We will most likely license the board design with the new Articia (if it works as it should) to another manufacturer - like Plexuscom for example."

Oh MY GAWD, I bet you have hundreds of licensees just running in your direction. Great.

"7. Finally, who ever mentioned 18 months? We will layout a new board with a new northbridge, in the meanwhile our developers and users are getting something very good, but not state of the art. MorphOS development, improvement, etc. will continue. The next Pegasos will be as good as anything available in the market for certain things and so will MorphOS. Just keep watching from the grandstands where you are...;-)"

I'll tell you what. I'll walk away from you and your second hand boards, and your wonderful 'future' designs. I AM sure you will pick the right components this time round, but I am not going to bother. Good luck."

"Frankly, Grunt, we do not need you or the other Anonymous Cowards lurking around here to continue to advance as we are. Everything is moving along without you. Have you noticed...;-) There are many Pegasos machines running MorphOS, Linux, and now OpenBSD IN the market. Your posts have no value other than giving us a chance to answer to your misconceptions and ill-founded statements."

Well well well, I have never been one of your anonymous types. You know where you can find me. I find it amusing you feel that we should view you as moving forwards. Maybe your set top box is moving forwards but your pegasos project now lies in ruins. You bet your house on being the dog bollocks. You rubbed anyone and everyone's nose in the dirt while you made vast claims, and now you just look like an idiot. You hardware is bust, you tried to fix it, you thought you fixed it, then you found you were talking out of your backside. After aachen you even found more problems. Now I'll save you the time that you won't take responding. I know you would say "IT was MAIs fault. They send us bad chips and they promised and swear everything will be wonderful." Bah, what a pile of horseshit.

"@Another Atheist Miky is coming to Paris to get his board and discuss how to market the Pegasos in Italy. Where have you been?"

We call that a 'freebee'. I regard being handed a free but broken part as a bit of a momento, and so should anyone else. Sadly most of these have not been free, and people who handed over their time and money are out of pocket.



"R&B"
"P.S. We arrived this morning to find two new bank transfer confirmations from buyers. There are now 195 Pegasos machines left to purchase...;-)"

Ahhh, Well, nice to see people are not buying into your crap. I am waiting for you to issue yet another product recall.

The real thing here is I could slag off eyetech (I am not in favour of either solution), but they have at least done a decent thing SO FAR, in that they have not released broken products. They might well be upto their neck in serious shit, but they have not made it their customers problem.

Good day

AdmV
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 20 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by AmiTroll on 25-Feb-2003 16:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
>Hello Grunt,

Boy wouldn't start playing with words when you have a last name like "Buck". Buck is too close to Schmuck to even risk it, but i suppose you've grown used to it by now though. ;)

>You really have missed a few major issues in your post.
>1. We have NEVER accepted any pre-payment for ANY Betatester or Pegasos, G3 or G4.

No, you just made as much noise in as many Amiga forums about a Pegasos G4 system in comparison to Eyetechs only offer of a G3 and then promptly failed to deliver. What's to make us believe that anything will be different with the PegasosII offer? Absolutely nothing except for your now infamous good word.

>Further, we have never sold a G4 as a G3.

That would be akin to selling a ferarri as a pinto. Why would you even consider it? I fail to see your logic. Not that you have any G4's to sell as G3's to begin with but its your marketing genious that comes up with branding G4's as G3's and not mine.

>2. The G4 works today on the Pegasos and the Teron. The problem is it does not perform as it should. There are a number of reasons including the lack of altivec implementation and the inconsistencies in the performance of the northbridge. You can verify this through any number of sources.

According to a few people with the PX systems, there are no problems with the G4's and altivec is working perfectly. I can accept that Genesi had problems with thier design but that dosen't mean everyone else in the world can not make a G4 system work simply because you've failed to do so.

>We even had a G4 at the WOA in the UK in November 2002. Anyone who ask about it saw it. It works, but not well. Why sell it like this?

I thought this was the reason behind the April2 chip. Does this fail as well or is it just to fix your G3 design?

>3. Neither Eyetech or TerraSoft will begin selling the G4 until these problems are solved.

People have already said that the problems have been solved for the Teron and Amiga One. What remains to be solved is the problems in the PegasosI design. It is only you who claims the Eyetech and TerraSoft systems will not work.

>As we have said, watch what happens. As much as we do not like Alan Redhouse or Kai Staats personally, we are sure they are not dishonest to their customers and will not make this critical business mistake (we did mention this in the not Mai without April announcement in December). Let time judge what happens next. Simple, just wait and see...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here but only because time has already shown that you have failed and believe that nobody else can do what you cannot.

I'll make you a deal if you have the wherewithall to accept it. When the AmigaOne XE systems and OS4 do come out, if they suffer from problems as you claim they will, then i will publicly apologize to everyone here on ANN for being wrong but if those problems have working solutions then you must publicly apologize to everyone at ANN for making false claims and stirring up the shit all along. Is it a deal? :)

>4. In the meanwhile, anyone can test the G3 Pegasos as it is running today against anything else. You can buy a G3 Pegasos yourself if you are a registered Phoenix Developer for $299. If you have some unique coding skills and we need you on the core MorphOS team you can have a Pegasos at NO cost (possibly even configured with a heard drive, memory, case, etc.).

Why join untill Genesi can prove it can offer something better than alot of talk and a failed G4 design? If you want to really get the Amiga market interested how about offering us something more than hot air about MAI and Eyetech and give us Amiga OS4 on a Pegasos G4 board? As it is now even if you came up with a G4 solution today you still can't offer us anything more than a 3.0 sandbox emulation and that still leaves you behind as an Amiga compatable solution. Even a G3 system would be a step in the right direction of an Amiga compatable if it could offer AmigaOS.

>5. We will provide a G4 module for Pegasos I owners -- we will no longer make the Pegasos I after we produce the next 400-450 (see the difference -- BTW, that number did not change - just remember we are "recycling" Betatester and April 1 boards). That means there will not be a Pegasos I G4 release, BUT we can still offer a G4 module. Alternately, Pegasos I purchasers will have the 200 Euro upgrade package to the Pegasos II (with trade-in).

So in effect you sold G3's with the promise of a G4 for exchange later and now it's get a fixed G3 with April2 now OR alternately a PegII later in exchange for your unfixed April1 board and more money.

>Quick questions: a) when have you ever heard of an upgrade package that "good?"

Honestly? There is a guy on a sidewalk downtown with 3 bent playing cards and a small table that makes me better offers than this.

>b) did you notice that this is the second time we have upgraded at no additional hardware cost to the buyer?

I would say that you had to or people would have shouted that you sold defective boards. Still, there are G3 Pegs out there in need of the April2 fix. So good, your offering to fix them free. But are you going to leave them without a PegII offer just because they wanted a fixed board?

>6. All this does not mean that someone else might make the Pegasos I. We will most likely license the board design with the new Articia (if it works as it should) to another manufacturer - like Plexuscom for example.

_IF_ someone will license a Pegasos I design with a chipset that you already claim does not and will not ever work. Now why would someone license a design from you when you have already said it wont work?

And i have to point out that now you say "(if it works as it should)" when previously you've sworn up and down that it will never work. Your back tracking here and you don't look at all good. Make up your mind.

>7. Finally, who ever mentioned 18 months? We will layout a new board with a new northbridge, in the meanwhile our developers and users are getting something very good, but not state of the art. MorphOS development, improvement, etc. will continue. The next Pegasos will be as good as anything available in the market for certain things and so will MorphOS. Just keep watching from the grandstands where you are...;-)

I can't deny that the grandstands afford a nice view, can you? Especially since you do so much grandstanding yourself. ;-)

>Frankly, Grunt,

Frankly Schmuck, ;)

>we do not need you or the other Anonymous Cowards lurking around here to continue to advance as we are.

Good for you, and you still can't have my home phone number and address. Keep pushing it though. :)

>Everything is moving along without you. Have you noticed...;-) There are many Pegasos machines running MorphOS, Linux, and now OpenBSD IN the market.

600 maximum is far from many in the computer industry. What's more the limited number of Pegasos systems you have managed to produce are hardly available to the public by any stretch. So far everyone has had to fly up in person to Paris and sign an NDA to get thier board and now you tell us that no more will be produced untill the PegasosII is ready. Then there is your STB deal witch will surely delay Pegasos systems even longer. Exactly when does your computer hit the shelves so everyone can buy one?

>Your posts have no value other than giving us a chance to answer to your misconceptions and ill-founded statements.

But how about my questions which you have expertly avoided in all instances. True to form.


GRUNT
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 21 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Feb-2003 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (AmiTroll):
Well, you two have out done yourselves!

Feeling good?

Tell you what, I do not know how to find either one of you (although AdmV is seen hanging out on #morphos from time to time) -- how about this. You send us an email to the address we have the decency to insure is an actual working address above and we will fly you here so we can discuss all this face to face. Do either one of you have the guts to do it? It is really just a few hours of simple discussions and demonstrations. You can ask whatever you want, etc. You have nothing to fear just come prepared to do something beyond name-calling. Come to Paris together if you want.

Seriously, can you handle this?

We and everyone will be able to follow the continuing discussion.

Sincerely,

Just Bill
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 22 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Petr Krenzelok on 25-Feb-2003 18:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (AdmV):
AdmV,

don't you think your attacks are a little bit too personal? Get a life, man.

I am not saying you are not right commenting some issues. Me too would like official company representative better think upon what is said/advertised and what is actually delivered, but I think that enough is enough.

Bill Buck is right in on thing though - "with or without you". You can be nervous about it, but it is all you can do about it. Genesi will move forward, no matter what you think. And you know why? Because they seem to be focused.

I just don't understand one thing - buggy hw. The bug is either critical (and then Genesi has right to announe their April dramatically changes situation), or non critical. I don't know how critical bugs bPlan found were. But I can tell you, that I have Duron + VIA machine here, and you would be probably suprised what bugs various chipsets contain. There always seems to be the way of how to make your machine viable ... of course depending about how critical the bug is :-)

But you seem not being able to give credit to Genesi for what they achieved. And I dare to tell that I know what I am talking about. Together with few friends we design some hw device for 3 years already, so I know what effort it does take to achieve some good results.

But maybe you prefer favoring Amiga Inc., company which shows no signs of leadership, no sign of life at all, which failed in keeping to their most promises. Then there is EyeTech, company that failed to deliver A1-1200 combo, its CEO publicly comments in pretty unacceptable way to me, company which is going to just resell other's product. Can you just tell me, from past 8 years of amiga history, WHAT company delivered any promised hw product, significant for amiga to move on? Yet still you are bitching about this or that detail in regards to Pegasos?

Although I sometimes don't like even some Ben Herman's comments - hey, Hyperion deserves much better - for me, they are kind of Genesi to me - they risk their own business, invest own money into what they believe represents Amiga the best way - very risky business today imo.

... everyone is OK to have own opinion, but sometimes some posts seem to be way too much personal to me ...

-pekr-
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 23 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Thaylon on 25-Feb-2003 18:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (bbrv):
Another post from the "disagree? i beat you up in private"-faction.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 24 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Feb-2003 19:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Thaylon):
Hi Thaylon (without an email address we can respond to),

This is certainly not true. If we can amend ourselves to guys like Miky060, we certainly can to these two. They have absolutely nothing to be afraid of except their own courage, their own ideas, their own knowledge. Of course, there is that old Airborne Ranger part of me that wants to completely rip these two cowards to pieces, BUT that would be the worst thing to do. If fact, if they take us up on the offer we will treat them as honored guests. They will tour our offices. We will take the time to discuss each detail with them and, most importantly, they can see a demo of the machines in question side by side. IF they have the fortitude to come, they will leave supporters. Why? Because, then they will have met us and they will have seen what we are doing and what has been done.

Thanks Petr for the supportive words. We need to get the whole Rebol thing moving!

Best regards,

R&B
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 25 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by ONE on 25-Feb-2003 19:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (bbrv):
Bill ignore the people insulting you or your products, when Alan Redhouse, Bill McWeen and Ben Hermans stop taking the piss towards Amiga users then maybe you clowns can learn but otherwise stop trying to be smart mouths.

Amiga companies have done PISS ALL for you users and DO NOT deserve your custom, respect and hero worshiping.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 26 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 25-Feb-2003 20:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (bbrv):
Hi Bill,

Well sadly I will not supply you with this information. You have a nasty habit of misusing private information, so you'll have to forgive me.
Aside from that, I appreciate the offer, but I would honestly prefer you put the funds into your products.

Besides, I would really hate to end up being a 'Parasite'.

AdmV
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 27 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 25-Feb-2003 21:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Petr Krenzelok):
Hi Petr,

I think questions and making firm critiq, is a positive thing. The question is more akin to not AM I behaving, but are these companies behaving.

That is the question.

AdmV
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 28 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 25-Feb-2003 21:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (bbrv):
@ Bill Buck

You made me the exact same offer, (@ Amiga.org) after some consideration and IF it's still valid I will accept the offer.

/Troels Ersking
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 29 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Petr Krenzelok on 25-Feb-2003 21:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (AdmV):
Hi AdmV,

I think you don't need to be afraid to contact Bill privately via email. I think I am not alone who does so. I had some issues with Genesi and former VisCorp situation which were cleared to me in an open and satisfactory way ...

cheers,
-pekr-
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 30 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 25-Feb-2003 21:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Petr Krenzelok):
I think Bill Buck have talked to (almost) everybody in the community via email.. Guess everybody who wants to know how many active Amigans we're left should just ask Mr.Buck (He must have a huuuuge collection of email adresses):-D
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 31 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 25-Feb-2003 22:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
> 2. The G4 works today on the Pegasos and the Teron. The problem is it does not perform as it should. There are a number of reasons including the lack of altivec implementation [...]

So you think the SiN speed test, nearly double speed of G4/800MHz against G3/600MHz, Ben Hermans posted means "it does not perform as it should"? What are you exspecting?
And what do you mean with lack of altivec implementaion? First, this has nothing to do with the board, second, do you call Hyperion liars when they say, there will be Altivec support in AmigaOS4? Or do you mean MorphOS has no Altivec support? (PPC linux programs can already have altivec support, if you compile it that way, you know).

> Neither Eyetech or TerraSoft will begin selling the G4 until these problems are solved.

You know that Eyetech *is* already selling G4 AmigaOnes, don't you?

> As much as we do not like Alan Redhouse or Kai Staats personally [...]

And do you think, this is professional?

> We will provide a G4 module for Pegasos I owners

Why should you, when you say, it doesn't perform as it should? Do you want to exchange existing Pegasos with April with Pegasos with April2? Does the G4 perform in Pegasos with April2 as it should or what is your plan?
And will the G4 module be cheaper then $200?

> MorphOS development, improvement, etc. will continue.

BTW: When will MorphOS for classic Amiga be available? What are you waiting for? Will it really be free?

> R&B

And please, write your name under your postings, or are you tiping the keyboard together most time?

And one more please: In the future, write statements that have a clear meaning. It's getting exhausting always trying to understand what you mean and Senex & Co also have to explain what Genesi tried to say. It's simply ridiculous.
(I still do not understand what the infamous April(TM) chip does and why such an outstanding thing of engineering needs a successor)

Hoping for some (clear) answers...

Ciao, Alfred
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 32 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 25-Feb-2003 23:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Petr Krenzelok):
Hi Petr,

I think questions and making firm critiq, is a positive thing. The question is more akin to not AM I behaving, but are these companies behaving.

That is the question.

AdmV
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 33 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Adam on 25-Feb-2003 23:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (bbrv):
Although AmiTroll comments are correct, incorrect and perhaps even FUD in some cases. I do not think thretening him is going to help you sell more systems!
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 34 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Feb-2003 00:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Alfred Schwarz):
> You know that Eyetech *is* already selling G4 AmigaOnes, don't you?

Wouldn't surprise me in the least, given Eyetech's track record in selling unfinished crap, but I would like to think they've learned from their mistakes and are going to wait with selling them until they're actually finished and commercially available.

The Teron PX IS NOT YET FOR SALE, other than sample volumes from Mai (and even then they're almost half the price Eyetech will be asking). Get it yet?
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 35 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 26-Feb-2003 01:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Adam):
I would like to be threatened like that very often.
If Hyperion were offering to fly you over to their place (where is their place BTW ?) at their cost and make you meet the developers, show you the ongoing projects I'am sure you would not have the same opinion.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 36 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by ONE on 26-Feb-2003 01:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
Well said, Eyetech are exploiting the Amiga users in to paying 200+ dollars for a DONGLE, they are ripping people off badly and it is a shame to see the ignorant members of the Amiga community defend such actions.

When MAI release the TERON PX it is going to be somewhere around 200 dollars cheaper than Eyetech, so Eyetech what the hell are you up to?
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 37 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by garfield on 26-Feb-2003 04:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Petr Krenzelok):
"I think you don't need to be afraid to contact Bill privately via email. I think I am not alone who does so. I had some issues with Genesi and former VisCorp situation which were cleared to me in an open and satisfactory way"

Care to clear that in public?
Communication with genesi does not go well at least in my experience. So the "email me and we will explain/talk/deal" thing really depends on the person, or on the coincedence that they actually reply or some other random factor. I know, busy managers and all that, but if you email, not just once, with a serious idea and offer and do not get a reply whatsoever it makes you wonder. It sure put me off ever emailing again, or anything else related to them. I guess your probably have to be an asshole nuthead to communicate, maybe it is a case of like minded people?
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 38 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 26-Feb-2003 04:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (garfield):
@garfield

I agree with you. (Do you see everyone, if there's really a reason, Senex is also critizing Genesi...! <shock> It's just that other than stuff like this they gave me no real opportunity so far to find anything important to blame them for.)

So I hope after the management-meetings last week and the help of the Crossbee-people that you, Raquel & Bill, will start to assemble and announce a more delegated management-team, everyone with a determined responsibility, so that youself will be relieved from having to care for everything and therefore especially e-mails from interested soft- & hardware-developers, or suggestions like garfield seems to have had, won't remain unanswered in the future.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 39 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 26-Feb-2003 05:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (garfield):
Good Morning!

Hi Garfield, please send us another email. We cannot find an email from you. If you have something "serious" to send us, we want to read it. The email you have listed here is not a working email.

Hi Troels, OK, let's coordinate this.

Hi Alfred, we sent you an email. Can we take this offline? We have answered most of these questions many times. This way we can also discuss the opinions we do not share more directly.

Hi AdmV, you have marginalized yourself now. You response to our sincere and serious offer places you, your comments, and your character in doubt. What happen to your buddy AmiTroll/GRUNT?

As Petr said, " ... everyone is OK to have own opinion, but sometimes some posts seem to be way too much personal to me ... " If we focus on the issues these threads CAN be an excellent tool for all concerned. If you have something personal to say to us, just send us an email. As Troels indicated we have exchanged emails with many of you and MANY more that never post. This is how we know what is happening in this community, how we found many of our new developers, and how we are recruiting new people for the future. This morning we have SEVEN new potential game developers after our amiga.org announcement yesterday (this does not count the ones we were already dealing with). There are other ways we use the threads. For example, we used the feedback on the Plexuscom announcement to tailor the Press Release for CeBIT and when MorphZone open for business we used a statement there as a means of judging the size of the potential of the market. Posting and the dialogue that insues is useful especially when we have access to the webstats.

Best regards,
Raquel and Bill (...yes, she is right here!)
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 40 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 26-Feb-2003 07:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (bbrv):
Dear Bill,

I only speak for myself. The safety of my family comes first. I have little requirement to come and visit you. As I said, I AM strongly of the opinion YOU should invest the money you seem to prefer to waste on my travel there on your own company and products.

As for your products and your companies actions. They remain an item for public discussion. If you cannot take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Perhaps you should work more behind the scenes. Your PR is getting as bad as Hyperions was before they called a halt to public slanging matches.

AdmV
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 41 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by ONE on 26-Feb-2003 07:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (bbrv):
Bucks said

> some posts seem to be way too much personal to me ...

What do you expect when people hate to see something which has not got the name "Amiga" stamped all over the product, if it was called AmigaMorphOS people would be worshiping you but it`s called MorphOS so your a moving target to the ignorant people who worship the name Amiga.

If Those clowns at Amiga inc released products instead of talking all the time then maybe all the hatred towards you would die down but while you are succeeding and Amiga inc are failing your just going to be treated like dirt.

I for one wish you the best in your company who is now clearly releasing products instead of just talking and promising the world but delivering nothing.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 42 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by ONE on 26-Feb-2003 07:13 GMT
AdmV your just trying to sabotage Buck and company which is not on at all, why dont you stop the Bill Buck hatred campaign and do something important instead.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 43 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by former miggyuser on 26-Feb-2003 07:19 GMT
A whole lot of whining. Every time i visit ANN to catch up on news with the hope to be able to use a modern Amiga again, all i see is a lot of flaming. Doesn´t matter what the news are. It´s all the same. Just start bitching.

I remember that the Amiga community used to be helpful individuals that cared about the community.

Ok. Now this sounds a lot like Jerry Macguire so start flaming. Start bitchin'. Again.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 44 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 26-Feb-2003 08:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (ONE):
I thought it was more like a $380 dongle.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 45 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 26-Feb-2003 08:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (ONE):
I do not hate Bill.

I dislike companies releasing problematic stuff. Whatever my chagrin over policy, differences of opinion, or even thinking people are being ripped off, these are merely opinions.

There are a million miles between having an argument or discussion, and hatred.

This is no different if I am ranting about microsoft. Or SUN. Or Seagate. Or Maxtor. Or Amiga, Hyperion, Eyetech. Or whoever.

As a consumer, I have ever right to comment on products and consumer service in the public domain. If a CEO writes or discusses on a public forum, then they have to expect intervention, and not always favourable.

I think Bill is very wrong in some things, this is not hatred. If me and Bill were sitting round a table, having a beer, I assure you he and I would still go at it hammer and tongues, and we may not agree. But we'd still have the beer.

AdmV
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 46 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 26-Feb-2003 11:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (bbrv):
@BBRV
"Hi Troels, OK, let's coordinate this."

OK, please email me with your suggestions to coordinate it, when you get the time.

Best regards
Troels
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 47 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by ONE on 26-Feb-2003 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (strobe):
Never thought it was that high, 380 dollars extra for a board because it has the name Amiga on it with the magical dongle, and people still respect Eyetech?.

You Amiga die hard name worshipers really need to stop supporting crooks.
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 48 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Feb-2003 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (MarkTime):
>DDR stands for dance dance revolution, but if you have to be all geeky about it,
>double-data rate....yes RAM, what else.

In my opinion DDR stands for Double Density RAM which means dynamic compression
of data with an average reduction of 50%. :-)
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 49 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 26-Feb-2003 18:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (bbrv):
> BBRV :
>This is how we know what is happening in this community, how we found many of our new developers, and how we are recruiting new people for the future. This morning we have SEVEN new potential game developers after our amiga.org announcement yesterday {...}

More than seven, now : }
 

<--greenboy---<<<<
coordinator & facilitator-at-large
Phoenix Developer Consortium [http://phinixi.com]
Pegasos I, II, and upgrades : Comment 50 of 50ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 07-Mar-2003 20:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
"inconsistencies in the performance of the northbridge"

How can these inconsistencies be found out?
I see people running thests and the performance is very good. (and peg1 is loosing) What should be tested so that ArtisiaS flaws can be seen, especially G4 related ones?
Anonymous, there are 50 items in your selection
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