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[News] AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothingANN.lu
Posted on 26-Feb-2003 15:18 GMT by Nico Barbat (editor-in-chief AMIGAplus)194 comments
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Pegasos is here - albeit in low quantities. The new issue 02/2003 (#133) of AMIGAplus reports about Pegasos and other topics: Content: Review of Pegasos & MorphOS, Review of indivision, Review of Subway, Review of Crossfire II, Report about Quake II, Interview with Genesi S.a.r.l., Interview with the Breakpoint-organizers, Review of SuperView 5 1.0, Review of Digital Almanac III 5.0, Coding-workshop: SDL, part 2, Amiga Status Report and much more

AMIGAplus (68 pages, 4c, German) is available via subscription, via individual order or through the known Amiga dealer channels for 5,- Euro.

Looking forward: Upcoming AMIGAplus #134 includes the following reports: Reviews of TKR LAM200E, IBrowse 2.3, VHI Studio 6 and Birdie Shoot, Compatibility report of MorphOS, Part 1 of the Draco video workshop and much more.

Contact: http://www.amigaplus.com

AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 1 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 26-Feb-2003 22:25 GMT
Where is Pegasos?

BBRV says 300 are on sale....the distributors say they haven't even been manufactured yet!

Sick of waiting :-/

Steve
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 2 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by F. Yssing on 27-Feb-2003 06:15 GMT
I was considering using Pegasos and MOS.
As a user and developer.
But only 300, come on that is pathetic, no one in their right mind would
use time and energy developing for such a small potential userbase.

Just my thoughts
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 3 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2003 07:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (F. Yssing):
Sorry for continuing this off-topic discussion, but you're not really talking about the *potential* userbase of MorphOS. You're talking about the rough number of current Pegasos I owners.

But yeah, I agree that the numbers are pathetic, even when you include both AmigaOS and MorphOS in the calculations. Add to this that "all future versions" of AmigaOS can only ever be seriously marketed to a handful of the current users who'd buy anything labelled "Amiga", with that idiotic "Amiga hardware" licence/dongle/bundle invention. :-(

(Ob. disclaimer for the braindead fanatics who have chosen "sides"; I'm not commenting on the quality and technical merits of either of the OSes, only their chances of commercial success as I see them.)
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 4 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by ONE on 27-Feb-2003 07:27 GMT
I am really fed up with all this Amiga vs MorphOS shit and this overpriced board with a dongle.

It really says something when i prefer to use Amithlon than a real Amiga anymore as the Amiga companies has learned nothing after all these years about what the real users (not the followers of the name "Amiga") want.

AmigaOS on very restricted out of date expensive hardware in 2003 is suicide to the platform and i will not go down that path and i hope many others dont.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 5 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 27-Feb-2003 07:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (F. Yssing):
Hi Steve, hi Frederik,

We think you are missing the point. Consider these next 400-450 Pegasos machines as the next step toward a broader consumer market and as a Development Platform. We will be changing the northbridge for the Pegasos II. This is the product that will be directed for the mass market -- not the current version. In the meanwhile, MORE IMPORTANTLY, the engineering and the organization behind the Pegasos and MorphOS have enabled Genesi to achieve an agreement to produce a Digital Television Receiver based on the PPC and MorphOS. We will be producing the first 150,000 of these units ourselves. We had to demonstrate that as a Company we could complete such a development and achieve it. We did this spite of many obstacles and this is why in the end we won the contract. Big companies are not in the habit of awarding small companies multi-million Euro development contracts and purchase orders. The qualification and authentication process is time consuming and strenuous. We did it. Now, we are moving ahead!

OK, so what do we do now. First, we need to deliver to the BIG customer what they want. As published to the mailing list <GameTeam@phinixi.com> we need to organized a suite of games (and eventually other applications) for this DTV STB. This first STB is a very simple platform, but it is starting point. Frederik, we would like to be working with you and Coder and the rest of the Flying Paper team on this (although how is Coder going to do this from Thailand?!). Can you understand that Apple too began one step at a time? Wozniak and Jobs made the first 200 Apple Computers in the gargage of Job's parents. We are a little farther than that and gathering momentum every day.

Back to the Pegasos, we think that the Pegasos I is fully suited to do the current job we have for it. It works very well and it peforms better and better with each OS update. Beyond MorphOS, our Debian Team (20 developers) is about to go to work on our next Debian distro (of course, Mac-on-Linux will continue to be featured). You can follow that progress at <PhrojectOS@phinixi.com>. You will also read about OpenBSD now running on the Pegasos there too.

We have targeted Developers, Demo Sceners and User Groups with this release of the Pegasos I because we still need to fine-tune everything. It is similar to what we did with the Betatester Program, but on a much more complicated scale because we are now perfecting more than the hardware and the OS. For example, we are establishing a broad web based sales and support strategy. We are going in a Dell-like way (not Compaq). Thus, we need to produce better documentation, more online resources, and build or port a full suite of applications (including a tool kit for our home based CBM like users). This takes time and talent. We are looking for the right people NOW. We are finding them by posting this kind of information and selling the Pegasos to these people for $299/299 Euros. We are moving ahead confidently and in large steps.

Plus, we will sell a G4 module upgrade to the Pegasos I or we will offer a Pegasos II with G4 module with Pegasos I trade in for 200 Euros to say thanks for helping us. We already have something else planned for those old Pegasos machines that get traded in...;-)

So, in a few words we hope you see the plan more clearly now. We have Pegasos I today. We are going to make it better. We will offer a number of operating systems and corresponding applications in a broad consumer release. Doing something too soon would potentially damage our one shot at the big time -- we are going for that with the Pegasos II. In the meanwhile, we have another project for a DTV STB that INSURES the financial stability of the Company. This gives us the ability to solidify our contractual obligations with our business partners, developers and employees and build a SOLID foundation for the future. Can you understand this? :-) Stability has been missing around here for sometime and we are bringing it back.

We understand that there may be many that do not want to be part of our "development" process. We understand this. No problem. We only have 85 Pegasos I machines left to sell. It does not seem to be a problem for a fair number of future users!

If that does not finally, make things clear read AMIGAplus!

...or send an email to bbrv@genesi.lu

Sincerely,

Raquel and Bill

P.S. As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle. BUT, we won't do that and will not need to support the effort, one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out. Of course, you could start discussing this on <PhrojectOS@phinixi.com>...;-)
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 6 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 27-Feb-2003 08:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
Bill,
thank you for this (and your private email). I have again
placed and order for a Pegasos I, this time from pegasos-usa,
here's hoping this time it's successful....all I want to do is buy the
product :-)

Appreciate the time taken out 'spreading the good word' and
answering simple user / prospective customer questions.

Have fun,

Steve
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 7 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Michael on 27-Feb-2003 09:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
>As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run
>perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle. BUT, we won't do that and will not
>need to support the effort, one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out.

Whats the use of "announcing" "OS 4 on Pegasos one day"?
What about the possible effect of carrying the lame fight "OS4 or MOS" to the Pegs, if OS4onPeg should ever happen? Or doesn't this matter at all, as long as more people buy Pegs?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 8 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 27-Feb-2003 09:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Michael):
Hi Michael, simple answer: because there are some people who want OS4 on the Pegasos. It will happen -- dongle or not. Why not do it in an organized fashion? Why not do it legally? We have offered Hyperion a Pegasos. The Developers working on OS4 are good people. What is the big deal? The Pegasos springs from Amiga Community roots much more true than the alternative hardware being offered. Anyone who has been here for a while knows that, plus the Pegasos has attracted widespread support (in and outside the Community). The Pegasos was developed by Amigans for Amigans. Unfortunately, the different parties could not work together. OK, now we have MorphOS, never mind, try again. Why keep bickering? MorphOS has a future, why shouldn't OS4?

Really!?

How can anyone take that badly?

R&B
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 9 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 27-Feb-2003 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (F. Yssing):
F. Yssing typed:

> But only 300, come on that is pathetic, no one in their right
> mind would use time and energy developing for such a small
> potential userbase.

Your math is off, and IMO your logic is off. Even a small community
can come up with great programs. What Genesi has done consistently
is support developers, demo coders, artists, and users who program
stuff for themselves, old school style. No-one can say if it will
work perfectly but this is a good plan to encourage the development
of software. You don't need great masses of people all thinking
alike to have good software.

As for the numbers: from public announcements it is actually 400 new
Pegasoses until later this year, PLUS those that have already been
sold in the last year. I got mine just over a year ago, and then
there was the betatester 2 series, and then the release of machines
sold after the (November?) show in Aachen. What are the exact
quantities? I don't know but you shouldn't underestimate.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 10 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 27-Feb-2003 10:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (bbrv):
So, what are you waiting for?

Seems you only announce cooperation to get OS4 on Pegasos on forums. So why don't you do it the official way (like talking to the parties involved) instead of spreading this stuff again and again.

According to hyperion, no contact has been made other than in forums. So why don't you stop talking about it and do something about it? Who should we believe?

I mean, having all those potential customers can't be a bad thing for any company, can it? And competition in hardware is a good thing for us customers, keeping the price down, having choses, ... We have paid overpriced hardware for long enough.

Somehow, your claim doesn't seem convincing at all. My guess? That you don't want OS4 on it because MorphOs is part of your business. Just a publicity stunt.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 11 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 27-Feb-2003 10:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (z5):
And i don't think this would be a bad move for MorphOs, actually.

People buy Pegasos + OS4 but then they also got the hardware to run MorphOS. So the step is a small one to take.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 12 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 27-Feb-2003 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (z5):
I mean, up until now, you were either OS4 or MorphOs.

But i think that a lot of people are interested in both systems.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 13 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 27-Feb-2003 10:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (z5):
Hi z5, this is not a publicity stunt. Of course people could be interested in both systems! But, seriously this is not a big market. Right now today there MIGHT be 400 to 500 more Pegasos machines sold if the Pegasos had OS4 running on it (if OS4 was ready). The profit on those sales would not even cover the payroll of Genesi for two weeks. Double or even multiply that number by ten if you want. There is NOT a real business here in this market today that can support a stable commercial operation. This is about the future. This is about infusing the Amiga spirit back into the Amiga Community and building something NEW. With a solid base of users and developers we could create something VERY special -- together.

Ben has a day job, but we will send him an email today and ask him officially if you think that will help. Hyperion will most likely own the intellectual property of the classic Amiga OS eventually. Certainly, they will want to sell OS4 to anyone with a PPC platform. The Pegasos Family of products will be their biggest target market.

Best regards,

R&B
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 14 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 27-Feb-2003 10:37 GMT
>Somehow, your claim doesn't seem convincing at all. My guess? That you don't >want OS4 on it because MorphOs is part of your business. Just a publicity stunt.


Actually I believe OS4 on the pegasos could only improve the image of the pegasos and have a positive effect on it's market. Afterall many, many people have been interested in pegasos hw but have chosen A1 because of the OS dispute.

A1 is a competing hw solution for the pegasos. If OS4 would be available for the peg, then it clearly would attract those people who are interested in having a pegasos coupled with OS4, simple as that. I don't see OS4 threatening MorphOS in any way, and even vice versa. Especially if OS4 will be a reality on pegasos some day. I bvelieve there is hope within genesi that someday OS4 could run on pegasos hw, but they clearly seem lacking interest in putting much effort in making it happen themselves, which is understandable because it's afterall a competing product and they have MOS for themselves already. Why sacrifice extra effort when you could wait someone else do it for you?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 15 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Middle of the road on 27-Feb-2003 10:44 GMT
Although I am personally going for an A1, OS4 on the Pegasos would
certainly be a good thing. The greater the hardware choice, the
better for the community.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 16 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 27-Feb-2003 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (gz):
OK, email sent to BenH@hyperion-software.de

Best regards,

R&B
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 17 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Middle of the road on 27-Feb-2003 10:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Middle of the road):
I would add, however, that I would only support this move if it was
done with full cooperation and no legal wranglings!

Cheers
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 18 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Middle of the road on 27-Feb-2003 10:53 GMT
I should add that I would prefer to see os4 being ported over to the
Pegasos in a spirit of cooperation (which I doubt will ever happen
soon) and without any legal wranglings.

Cheers
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 19 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 27-Feb-2003 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (bbrv):
While this may be an applaudable move, it still doesn't seem convincing and it shows me even more that it is a publicity stunt.

You are a business man, right? So talk to those people directly, meet up or something if you are serious. Sending an email, then one minute later posting in a forum that you have sent a email...? Nah, it just doesn't show any real interest in getting OS4 on Peg.

If you were really serious, you talk to this people, try to make a deal and then announce it when the deal is truck.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 20 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 27-Feb-2003 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (z5):
Hi z5, Ben Herman works as a legal clerk. Hyperion does not have an office. He has a "day job." Maybe someone could email us a mobile number? We would be happy to call. We have offered to meet him here in Paris at our offices. We will even pay for his train ticket! Should we stand on our heads too?

R&B
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 21 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 27-Feb-2003 11:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (z5):
P.S. This is not about business (see above). This is about growing the foundation of Developers and intelligent Users.

R&B
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 22 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frans on 27-Feb-2003 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (bbrv):
Should that not be: BenH@hyperion-software.BE?
I think they are in Belgium not Germany...

Frans
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 23 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 27-Feb-2003 11:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Frans):
...that is how it came off their website.

R&B
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 24 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 27-Feb-2003 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Middle of the road):
Well, there are no legal problems with Hyperion, at all. Only with Amiga Inc.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 25 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 27-Feb-2003 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (bbrv):
That's out of date actually, it's BenH@Hyperion-Entertainment.com
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 26 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Coder on 27-Feb-2003 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
@bbrv

>Frederik, we would like to be working with you and Coder and the rest of the >Flying Paper team on this (although how is Coder going to do this from >Thailand?!).

Not a prob at all. My development gear will be present there.

I also send a subscribe mail to GameTeam@phinixi.com

Coder
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 27 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 17:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (bbrv):
>We have offered Hyperion a Pegasos

Have you!? I'd read your offer on ann before, but have you gone trough official channels? Or is it just hype and marketing!? Nothing is done without purpose, and mostly not on your job... If you are serious about it, why don’t you mail them, why don’t you send them, why such bragging if you do want hyperion to port it over!? I suppose that knowing someone out will sort this for you, and do the dirty work themselves, you don’t really care...

Actions speak louder then words... you know!?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 28 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 27-Feb-2003 17:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (bbrv):
> BUT, we won't do that and will not need to support the effort, one of you smart
> gals or guys will sort this out.

May I take this as a call to piracy?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 29 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 17:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (bbrv):
> Pegasos springs from Amiga Community roots much more true than the
> alternative hardware being offered...

for the good and for the worst...
pegasos roots remember me the fight between HP and p5 for *control*, as you do now... flashback anyone!?

Yeah shure if you believe in it... there's no one who would change your mind, but how ExecNG is less amigable then a foreign kernel is out of my reach, I'm not saying that your way isn't good, but...

>The Developers working on OS4 are good people.
Atencion, massive PR bullocks!;b

>The Pegasos was developed by Amigans for Amigans
And AmigaOS4 was not!?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 30 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 17:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Hello,

" > BUT, we won't do that and will not need to support the effort, one of you smart
> gals or guys will sort this out.

May I take this as a call to piracy?"

Sorry but as far as I know anyone can buy an OS 4 licence for the Pegasos, a reseller or any other company. I think that what bbrv meant.

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 31 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Feb-2003 17:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Oh do stop trolling for once in your life, please.

*sigh*
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 32 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 27-Feb-2003 17:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
Posts anonymous and calls me a troll.

Very nice.

Care to explain how I should read the line otherwise?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 33 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Frodon):
>Sorry but as far as I know anyone can buy an OS 4 licence for the
>Pegasos, a reseller or any other company. I think that what bbrv meant.

It isn't, so far... and shouldn't Hans-Joerg Frieden already know that if that was to be the case!? BBRV said, as said in the past, "someone will break the dongle and port it to pegasos"...

Free Morphos+free AmigaOS4 is a strong appeal to their potential users.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 34 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 17:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (pixie):
Hello,

" It isn't, so far... and shouldn't Hans-Joerg Frieden already know that if that was to be the case!?"

No it's not obvious. It depends if the company(ies) have already applied for the licence. If the company(ies) is/are just planning to do it but didn't contact Hyperion yet, Hyperion can't hardly guess it, except if they are mediums ;)

"BBRV said, as said in the past, "someone will break the dongle and port it to pegasos"..."

Where? Can you provide a link to this post? Was it really BBRV or someone else using his nickname?

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 35 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Frodon):
on ann
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 36 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 18:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (pixie):
Hello,

"on ann"

Strange your link doesn't work, I can't click on it ;-) Provide a link please.

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 37 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 18:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Frodon):
"No it's not obvious. It depends if the company(ies) have already applied for the licence. If the company(ies) is/are just planning to do it but didn't contact Hyperion yet, Hyperion can't hardly guess it, except if they are mediums ;)"

1) If it isn't on amiga.com...
2) Who'd you think that would make the port?

Until AmigaOS is only planned for Cyberstorm, Blizzard PPC and AmigaONE, other talks were about Merlancia, but Merlancia situation is getting weird everytime.
We can't talk about guesses, IBM could actually be interested, but nothing makes me think they are, or do you know anything else we don't!?

You to have AOS4 ported to AmigaOS4 have to support it and apply an Amiga certification, Merlancia apparently had done so, but their financial backing is a lot to be desired...
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 38 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 18:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Frodon):
Why do I have to make the work for you!?
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 39 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 18:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (pixie):
Hello,

" You to have AOS4 ported to AmigaOS4 have to support it and apply an Amiga certification, Merlancia apparently had done so, but their financial backing is a lot to be desired..."

Indeed and that's what I mean. It's clearly written in the licence, and it has been confirmed that anyone, even a company other than Genesi, can apply for a licence for the Pegasos. That's why BBRV may have meant that there will be a company which will do it. Note I used WILL which mean it's obviously not yet done (or not yet announced), but will probably be done in the future.
Who? As soon as it's not a public information nobody except the concerned parties will know. And it'll not be on Amiga.com or anywhere else until it's done of course.

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 40 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 18:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Frodon):
> That's why BBRV may have meant that there will be a company which
> will do it.

Reading:

"*As we have said many times*, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle. BUT, *we won't do that* and *will not need to support the effort*,* one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out. Of course, you could start discussing this on <PhrojectOS@phinixi.com>"

So we get:
-As we have said many times;
no need to point to other page then this...

-we won't do that;
-will not need to support the effort;
they won't make it... and they find it worthless (stressed on 8th comment)

-one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out;
and finnaly... what part of the this sentence you didn't get, the gals or guys!? ;)
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 41 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 18:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Frodon):
> As soon as it's not a public information nobody except the concerned
> parties will know. And it'll not be on Amiga.com or anywhere else until
> it's done of course.

I know, Genesi should know if any potential reseller wants to sell Pegasos with OS4, but to the very same extent so Hyperion should as makers of OS4... but I can only guess the only company that effectively could sell Pegasos and OS4 at a sensible price (less then A1) would have to be… Genesi themselves..
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 42 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 18:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (pixie):
Hello,

"So we get:
-As we have said many times;
no need to point to other page then this..."

Well if you are refering to your claim that BBRV said that someone will break the dongle. I don't see the relation with this quote. Maybe it was just your interpretation. But in that case you've a very biased interpretation.
It just means Genesi will not support OS 4. But they are agree to let Hyperion port it and give a Pegasos for that if an other company apply for a licence. Now about the dongle, you know when you apply for a licence, there are negociations. The dongle can simply be an external one if there is one or no dongle at all if the company who apply for the licence did achieve to negociate to not have a dongle for the Pegasos.

"-we won't do that;
-will not need to support the effort;
they won't make it... and they find it worthless (stressed on 8th comment)"

Yes that's what I say from the beginning, it must not be Geneso who apply for a licence. They even can't support the company which will apply for it.
I repeat, ANY company, even resellers can apply for an AmigaOS 4 licence for the Pegasos, with or without the support of Genesi!

"-one of you smart gals or guys will sort this out;
and finnaly... what part of the this sentence you didn't get, the gals or guys!? ;)"

You know one of these smart gals or guys can be a reseller or have a company and so apply for an OS 4 licence. If you interpreted otherwise, you have a very biased interpretation.

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 43 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 18:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Frodon):
"As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle"

Damn I'm so FUCK*NG biased!! How the hell could you run AmigaOS on Pegasos WITHOUT a dongle!?!??!?!?!?!?!
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 44 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 18:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (pixie):
Hello,

" Damn I'm so FUCK*NG biased!! How the hell could you run AmigaOS on Pegasos WITHOUT a dongle!?!??!?!?!?!?!"

Simply if the company who applied for an OS 4 licence and Hyperion did have negociated between them to not use a dongle for the Pegasos port of AmigaOS 4. Negociations are always part of business.

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 45 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 18:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Frodon):
> The dongle can simply be an external one if there is one or no dongle at
> all if the company who apply for the licence did achieve to negociate to not > have a dongle for the Pegasos.

I know, I know, cows can fly, they just don't have wings, but if they had...

AmigaOS has to have a dongle, if it run on a Pegasos undongled it would run on every pegasos, and it was said many times -hyperion doesn't want that... (to run undongled)
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 46 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (pixie):
Hello,

"hyperion doesn't want that... (to run undongled)"

People can change their mind :) Time will tell...
Personally I doubt Hyperion will always ask for a dongle to have OS 4 ported to new PPC computers as in my opinion this can limit a lot the AmigaOS 4 market.

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 47 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 18:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Frodon):
> The dongle can simply be an external one if there is one or no dongle
> at all if the company who apply for the licence did achieve to negociate
> to not have a dongle for the Pegasos

I'm biased, you can't read... what is the strongest blindness!?

As said:
"As we have said many times, eventually if there is an OS4 it WILL one day run perfectly on the Pegasos without a dongle."

They assume one day as soon as a guy or gal (hint: not a company) make it, a OS4 version will come WITHOUT dongle.

Then on comment 8 they stress further:
"because there are some people who want OS4 on the Pegasos. It will happen -- dongle or not. Why not do it in an organized fashion? Why not do it legally?"
(hint:legally)

Of course they were assuming that it was legal since it first time... sorry for being so biased, cough, cough. As said before, bbrv as come with kind of talk many times before... I just think that's not ethical neither professional for him to say that.
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 48 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 19:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (pixie):
Hello,

What you do is interpreting what someone else said and even try to extract informations that he even not gave at all.

You may be right, but an interpretation is hardly a fact. So don't use it as fact. Sorry in my mind a gal or a guy can be a CEO of a company so...

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 49 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 27-Feb-2003 19:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (pixie):
Hello,

Btw what you interpreted is even not evry logical. BBRV has said here that he has proposed to BenHemrans from Hyperion to come in Paris to get a Pegasos. He even have sent a mail to him today about that.
Then why he should expect an individual to do OS 4 for Pegasos illegally if he contacted Hyperion already?

Regards
AMIGAplus 02/2003 - A wolf in sheep's clothing : Comment 50 of 194ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 27-Feb-2003 19:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Frodon):
Personally I don't mind much with what others think, as long as they are not backed with facts, I don't live on guesses. They could, but from what they've said before is too much unlikely, anyway this is just my biased pov...
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