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[Rant] Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-ShirtANN.lu
Posted on 01-Mar-2003 17:29 GMT by Master Of Disaster126 comments
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Has anybody received his coupon yet? I'm still waiting for it (and my T-Shirt, too!!!) and now there is not even an address at Amiga Inc. that I could send my complaint to. Also my emails are left unanswered. Isn't their behaviour criminal? I mean: I have ordered a product and not received it yet - more than a year after placing my order .. anybody here can evaluate the chances of a law suit against them?
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 101 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 02-Mar-2003 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Seehund):
> without new [AACE] development happening

Make that "without *apparent* new development happening". As in: no updates and no information on any progress has been released.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 102 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 02-Mar-2003 18:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Ken Davey):
hype is a skill those at amiga have some experience at. Given all that had been communicated by Amiga Inc. before the coupon and lack of such panning out, is there anything to indicate a change in this by going elite?

Amiga Inc. has a history of promoting elitism and failure to produce what they say they are. They have time and again proven intent to unsurp unearned values from others thru deceptive means.

It does nobody any good to promote elitism in regards to computer technology intended for the consumer.

OT: I found linuxcd.org to have supprisingly inexpensive prices on many Linux distros and more, including the Hurd and BSD....

I seriously doubt that the club membership numbers are not padded and doubt any member are of such mindset to not submit to any wim or wish Amiga has. In fact it seems that's part of the requirement of being a club member.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 103 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Colin on 02-Mar-2003 20:45 GMT
Amiga Inc are just a bad smell in the Amiga community and i can not understand why people are so protective of Amiga inc.

Amiga inc DO NOTHING but lie,cheat and scam Amiga die hards and then expect the die hards to cover it up and make excuses for a poorly runned company.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 104 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 02-Mar-2003 22:50 GMT
Somebody on this thread said "AmigaInc have done the impossible" And he is quite right imho. AI have turned the last fragments of the community into a turmoil of FUD, anger and frustration instead of uniting those fragments as they said they would attempt. They have accomplished to do so thru Lying, cover ups, vague announcements/press releases and when facing accusations, by going silent allowing even more FUD/frustration to build up.

That is a pretty impossible thing to accomplish among the last loyalists that form the remains of amiga "community"

I dare to say that the biggest accomplishment AI have made is to have more people turning away from this platform than Gateway was ever able to. What amazes me most is how these people could come up with 5 million$ of capital to buy the trademark licence and then run the company in such incredibly incompetent way they have. I mean one would think this is a garage company by the way it's being handled.

Their complete strategy sucks. Instead of hiring fulltime coders to bring their products into fruitition, they hire expensive pencil necks to come up with new ways to hype/market and creating coupon schemes, and then hire a couple of part-time coders cheap to tackle the whole project. Needles to say this kind of approach produces incredible amounts of hyping and press releases full of buzzwords, yet the product itself will take seemingly forever to mature due to underpowered development.

They should first concentrate more in creating a product worth selling and only then hire the marketing people and start hyping.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 105 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 02-Mar-2003 23:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (gz):
You forget, Amiga doesn't make anything, they're just a licensing of content providor.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 106 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 03-Mar-2003 03:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
>OK, so where's this all-pervasive AmigaDE?

>Oh look! Nowhere.

Well, it's up to other companies, if they want to create content with the software they purchase. If they produce something, I would imagine they may pay some licensing fee to AInc. With that AInc. could make an update available. I guess it hasn't quite worked out.

>AInc have developed and delivered preceisely NOTHING. Period.

Didn't they arrange for 3.5 and 3.9 to be published?

>Afger several years of lying, bullshit, scams and mor lies, they have failed >utterly to deliver.

Scams???

2000 to 2002 = 3 years * 365 = 1095 days
add Jan. and Feb. = 59 days
= 1154 days
$50 / 1154 = $ .0433
Now, let's give a wild number like 2000 members

2000 * .043 = $86 a day.

Buy a company for $10 million to scam $86 bucks a day, devided by at least 9 other induviduals? It's actually lower than that because there are less than 2000 members. And, only the ones who applied by the deadline qualify for the goodies, anyhow.

If this went to court, it would be obvious NO FINANCIAL GAIN was made by the defendants. Just alot of good intentions, unfulfilled. I don't think they would be convicted of anything.

Amiga! When you set out to make something new and wonderful, you CAN'T POSSIBLY know the pitfalls that await in the darkness.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 107 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 03-Mar-2003 03:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (3seas):
>I seriously doubt that the club membership numbers are not padded and doubt
>any member are of such mindset to not submit to any wim or wish Amiga has. In
>fact it seems that's part of the requirement of being a club member.

Well then, adjust my numbers accordingly in post #106, so that the amount "scammed" has proper perspective.

Their only faux pa is, delay of availability.

Amiga! The hunted.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 108 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 04:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Alan Croft):
>It was 10million Amiga paid Gateway. 10mio turkish lira?So what, they burned the money and betrayed "Amiga" by sharing bed with Microsoft.They didn't do much good at all.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 109 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 04:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (JoeBlow):
>Get a life.....>>Sue for $50....?>>Your F... crazy. Yeah, yeah, let the scamsters get away with it...NOT! >:-(
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 110 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by derf on 03-Mar-2003 09:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Anonymous):
so tell me how AInc have scammed me from my $50, i would be interested to hear.

i just thought i would get it back when i buy an AmigaOne and/or AOS4.0, but aparently you think i have been scammed. please tell me how ?
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 111 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 10:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Atheist2):
> >OK, so where's this all-pervasive AmigaDE?

> >Oh look! Nowhere.

> Well, it's up to other companies,

Excuse me?!

AmigaDE is supposed to be AInc's product.

So why is it up to other companies to produce AInc's flagship product for them?

Get real.


> >AInc have developed and delivered preceisely NOTHING. Period.

> Didn't they arrange for 3.5 and 3.9 to be published?

No, they didn't.

Hint - OS3.5 was out long before AInc came on the scene.
OS3.9 was H&P asking AInc if AInc would mind H&P spending time and money developing the upgrade.

So only OS3.9 came out under AInc's shambolic reighn, and that was not even AInc's idea - they had to be forced into it.

>>Afger several years of lying, bullshit, scams and mor lies, they have failed >>utterly to deliver.

>Scams???

Yes, scams.

See coupon scam.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 112 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 03-Mar-2003 10:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (derf):
>so tell me how AInc have scammed me from my $50, i would be interested to hear.

>i just thought i would get it back when i buy an AmigaOne and/or AOS4.0, but >aparently you think i have been scammed. please tell me how ?


Perhaps I could try to explain thru a simple example. Let's assume OS4 will cost 150$ when finished. You have now bought the 50$ coupon sold as a discount off the final price of OS4 or AmigaOne.

Ok so you now have lost 50$ from your wallet and when you collect your copy of OS4 for 100$ (assuming there will be an arrangement made to keep the coupon offer valid) You still have ended up paying 150$ (the original price) Only now you've paid it in 2 halves because you first paid 50$ and then later you paid 100$.

50$+100$ is 150$ Now that's what I call a "discount" erm, should I say scam because I don't see where is the discount promoted by AI if you still end up paying full proce, only in 2 halves.

Obviously the idea behind this "scam" is to make the customer forget that the 50$ paid previously is associated and tied to the 100$ you'll pay later on and thus fooling you to forget that you've actually paid 2 times. First 50$ then 100$ which raises the price back to the original which was 150$

Now let's get to the point why it is scam. It's idea was to fool gullible people thinking they would get discount for something. This simply is not the case here if you end up paying full price. The clever part of this "scam" is the legal side which gets AI off the hook because you end up receiving your 50$ back eventually (though it could take x amount of time) Thus AI cannot be prosecuted of theft.

They have fooled you to lend 50$ to them for an undefined amount of time. The reason why I say fooled is because they wanted you to believe it's something you're buying (a product) and in return receiving a discount.

If they had been honest they could have just asked the community politely to lend them the money which would have looked unprofessional, but the way they have handled everything looks just as bad.

Also it's worth noting that by knowing all the above, Hyperion and Eyetech understandably have stated that it's not their job to give you any discount's off their final products. And by doing so, have passed the responsibility to AI, a company that uses dirty tactics and misleading their customers continuously and intentionally.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 113 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 03-Mar-2003 11:36 GMT
Btw. We do not know what is going to happen here... It could also be that you end up never receiving your t-shirt and/or your 50$

At the moment nothing would surprise me other than if AI would somehow keep their "word" for once.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 114 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 03-Mar-2003 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Atheist2):
Hello Atheist2

>AInc. has done the impossible, and all they get is insults and rude >commentary? It's not fair. $50 is not going to destroy anyones life. If a >person who sent in $50 was that close to rock bottom, what are doing trying to buy a computer?

You keep missing my point. It's not about the money. It's about the morale and responsibility to carry out what you have promised to your customers when accepting money from them in return. The 50$ is not the end of the world, but the amount of confusion and scars to this sensitive shreds of community that this farse has caused IS very serious to the future of the platform.

Many have left and who knows how many are leaving. Some may think good riddance, but bare in mind that we need EVERYONE at the moment because we're the all time niche there is.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 115 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 03-Mar-2003 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (gz):
Hello gz,

People face disappointment everyday.

Maybe, even at the expense of losing customers and credibility, they kept moving the date forward, little by little, just like someone who tries to avoid paying you back, hoping someone would step in and make a big investment.

The other way, people would walk en mass. Then it would have been over on the spot. If they had said in mid 2001, "it'll take 2 years". How would that go over?

This way, lots of animosity is brewed, NOT DELIBERATELY, but maybe, just maybe, someone is left, to participate in a re-launch of the new Amiga. This way, maybe a few hundred extra people put off spending money on pcs, and get the new machine. People who left, will remember why they left, but hopefully, what they WANT is more important than their hurt emotions. They say time heals all wounds, and their wounds, in this case are superficial. In almost all cases, no physical or financial losses were incurred. Frustration and anxiety is a price they paid. But, in the end, it will be up to them if they can come to a peace, and understand what the people at AInc. et. al. were going through as well, and return to what they were asking for, at the beginning.

And I STRONGLY feel that AInc. can deliver on what they set out to do.

AInc. = Amiga Inc., Eyetech, and Hyperion

Amiga! Open source is NOT the solution!

This is speculation on MY part. Should it therefore be ignored? First, look at your own life, then decide if what I said couldn't possibly be something close to the truth.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 116 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 03-Mar-2003 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Anonymous):
> Well, it's up to other companies,

You didn't complete my sentence.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 117 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 03-Mar-2003 12:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Atheist2):
AInc is NOT Amiga Inc+Eyetech+Hyperion. AInc=Amiga Inc.
Hyperion is a partner of them and has nothing to do with them as a corporate
entity, thank god.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 118 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 12:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Atheist2):
With very good reason.

Before you can complain that it is up to other companies to produce things for AmigaDE, you must first realise that it is up to AInc to DELIVER AmigaDE.

Which they have not done.

Therefore it is no use complaining that it is up to other companies to deliver, when there is nothing for them to deliver FOR.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 119 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 03-Mar-2003 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (gz):
> Perhaps I could try to explain thru a simple example. Let's assume OS4 will cost 150$ when finished. You have now bought the 50$ coupon sold as a discount off the final price of OS4 or AmigaOne. You still have ended up paying 150$ (the original price) Only now you've paid it in 2 halves because you first paid 50$ and then later you paid 100$.

Anyone that assumed different ought to be shot.

> 50$+100$ is 150$ Now that's what I call a "discount" erm, should I say scam because I don't see where is the discount promoted by AI if you still end up paying full proce, only in 2 halves.

Apparantly you belong to that category.

> Obviously the idea behind this "scam" is to make the customer forget that the 50$ paid previously is associated and tied to the 100$ you'll pay later on and thus fooling you to forget that you've actually paid 2 times. First 50$ then 100$ which raises the price back to the original which was 150$

Slander, and pretty lousy at that.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 120 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 03-Mar-2003 13:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Atheist2):
>This is speculation on MY part. Should it therefore be ignored? First, look at >your own life, then decide if what I said couldn't possibly be something close to the truth.


I do not think anyone's opinion should be ignored with the eception of plain insults some people use. Everyone has a point which is worth considering when they articulate their views. Please do not think I have'nt done so in your case either.

What you have said could possibly be the truth or close to the truth, that I cannot deny. However I share a different view because of the time and time again let downs by AInc. I simply do not have faith in them anymore, and it will take a lot more than public statements and pompous press releases full of buzzwords to build back that faith on my part.

They can start little, just by starting to talk openly and without hiding behind vague marketing speeches. Then after that, once they feel they can, they could release those t-shirts, and then when OS4 gets released they could keep their word on returning the 50$ and after that... etc. Little by little start building something.

However they have failed in all of this to this day. Not even in the little things. This has led me to believe they have'nt even tried (at least not properly) I believe all they care about is exploiting the DE and it's community producing games for "free" hoping it could somehow strike a marketing vein especially now that they have been able to get their product over to the windows land. Unless a miracle happens, the DE will be left as a rosy dream if they continue the way they have. Changes to their structure would have to be made to create a more efficient development of DE and it's tools.

There are garage companies out there performing better than AI has. I could even start printing damn t-shirts if I wanted to and sending them out to people. It's just not that expensive. If they are currently in business, it means they have more income than those 50$'s That means they have to have investors and even if they have a small amount of investors, they will have enough money to fulfill their promise. Otherwise they would go belly up in the lack of funds. If they have enough money to keep the boutique up and running, they must have money to do something with it aswell. Maybe not big things but even just little things.

What point is there to have a company if you don't have sufficient funds to keep moving it and it's products forward? It's evident there will not be a miracle and suddenly the completely unfinished DE would become popular.

My point is that they must have money to operate, otherwise they would'nt be here today. However they keep it as a total secret where all that money and effort is going to and it's evident that the amiga community is not where it is going regardless of what they claim.

Yet they are putting their money on something else.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 121 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 03-Mar-2003 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Ketzer):
@Ketzer

First of all why does AInc promote the coupon offer as a discount if it's not?

Second, just by reading some of the comments on ann it seems not everybody have realized that it is a + - 0 offer (with the exception of t-shirts if they ever arrive)

Thirdly, you call me a slander thrower when you yourself say that I belong to a category of people that ought to be shot in your opinion... Hmmm kinda ironic and sort of shows what kind of man you really are.

Btw. here's slander for you incase you don't even know what it means:

Don't ever say someone ought to be shot because of differing opinion. You FUC#ING CUM SUCKING LAMERBATWOMITPIECEOFWHORESHIT!

Whew! Got it out of my system and it really feels good! :)

As you can see, getting insulted or threatened will never cause a positive reaction on anyone. If you want people to take you seriously, cut the shit and articulate your views in an adult manner (unless of course if you're not one yourself)
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 122 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 03-Mar-2003 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (gz):
I just wanted to add that of course it is AI's business where they are putting their money and effort, but if it's not into the benefit of the community, maybe they should'nt get their shoulders patted for it.

Of course that is up to each individual to choose how they feel about them. That's why there is differning opinions on these open forums.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 123 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 03-Mar-2003 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (gz):
I read what you had to say about the coupon offer. Well, we know, no company can give something away for free. It's like those late night TV commercials, "buy this potato peeler in the next 30 minutes, and GET THIS OVEN MITT, ABSOLUTELY FREE!!" Sure! You know you pay for it, but it makes you feel good, right?

You call it a scam. Well don't companies do that all the time? No one gets sued. How about, the credit card offers, "don't pay interest for 6 months" but apply a small "administrative" fee, etc., etc.

It's a gimmick.

But guess what? I got good news for you.

You're irate, so I'll guess you joined before Aug. 1st, last year.

I joined a few days ago, so I don't qualify for a shirt or the discount. I don't care. I want AOS4.0.

So, they'll have $50 ready for your coupon refund, for a refund you've been waiting for since mid December, but can't be honoured yet, because AOS 4.0 isn't available YET.

More good news, I have to pay yearly, so will pre-pay for my next years membership at the end of this month. that will cover 1 more coupon refund. How's that for a 2 for 1? If I can help lower the static by 2 people, it'll be SOOOO worth it, I have no words I can use to explain.

One last comment about the coupons, it would be nice if they could send out 1 less piece of mail, by you sending them proof of purchase, and them mailing back a refund. Could save them as much as $1 per member. Maybe even a friendly helpful hand of you sending them a SASE, to make it faster and easier.

Amiga! 2 refunds down 800+ to go.

BTW, I would love to and be proud to go to a night club wearing their T-shirt.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 124 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 16:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Atheist2):
Or, instead of paying AInc $50 every year until Hyperion finish AOS4, you could simply wait until AOS4 is out and THEN pay for it.

A rather radical idea, I know, but you never know - paying for goods when they are ready to ship istead of prepaying piece by pice just MIGHT catch on?
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 125 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 03-Mar-2003 20:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (gz):
> @Ketzer
> First of all why does AInc promote the coupon offer as a discount if it's not?

Did they? Maybe because it includes a discount?

> Second, just by reading some of the comments on ann it seems not everybody have realized that it is a + - 0 offer (with the exception of t-shirts if they ever arrive)

You bought a club membership, you get coupon and a tshirt for free. That cant be too hard to understand.

> Thirdly, you call me a slander thrower when you yourself say that I belong to a category of people that ought to be shot in your opinion... Hmmm kinda ironic and sort of shows what kind of man you really are.

Accusing a company of a criminal deed, eg "scam"... As for the other comment .. Im sorry, I felt insulted and reacted inappropriately.

> Btw. here's slander for you incase you don't even know what it means:
> Don't ever say someone ought to be shot because of differing opinion. You FUC#ING CUM SUCKING LAMERBATWOMITPIECEOFWHORESHIT!

Blame my dictionary. "calumny" better? "character assassination"? Btw, you overreacted too.

> As you can see, getting insulted or threatened will never cause a positive reaction on anyone. If you want people to take you seriously, cut the shit and articulate your views in an adult manner (unless of course if you're not one yourself)

That you even assume somebody (eg I, being a buyer) could be stupid enough to think of a normal buisness offer as a "free beer switch" is insulting in itself. That you felt the need to call it "scam" crossed the line.
Amiga 50$ Coupon + T-Shirt : Comment 126 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 04-Mar-2003 11:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Ketzer):
>Im sorry, I felt insulted and reacted inappropriately.

Apology accepted and I too am sorry for overreacting in my response.
Your rather drastic suggestion of shooting someone made me climb over the edge of good taste.

Now that we have got past the insulting, I can finally take seriously the content of your post and find valid arguments in it. If people would only choose this way as their first option instead of directly jumping into animosities, the amiga community might still be worth something.
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