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[Rant] Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic productsANN.lu
Posted on 01-Mar-2003 22:14 GMT by Ace2k94 comments
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After the comments on here by Bill Buck himself I`m not buying any of his products. I have had enough of Bill Bucks attitude and have decided not to buy any of his products.
This is my choice -his products have potential. But no.
1) Lawsuit against AmigaInc
2) comments against Amiga companies
3) Personal threats & slander
4) questional piracy comments
5) Peg1 to peg2 change
These are ANTI-AMIGA actions on this fragile community.
Enough is enough.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 51 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Druideck on 02-Mar-2003 20:52 GMT
Ironically, Bill and Raquels posts are what prompted us to order a
pegasos. I appreciate the ongoing information and communication from
bbrv.

We have used Amigas since before commodore's demise. We waited and waited
for new Amigas. It seems to me that any new Amiga at this point will
be far from the beloved Amigas of the past.
The Pegasos/Morphos is the closest thing to a "real" Amiga at this point.
At least it is a product that is available and in development.

I would like to see OS4 on the Pegasos, if not then Morphos will be our
new platform for game development etc.

This community needs new products to stimulate creativity which was plentiful
on old Amigas. I think a company that communicates is refreshing.

Keep the momentum going bbrv. Even disagreements seem better than silence to me.

Druideck
Emerald Imaging
http://browse.to/emerald
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 52 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 02-Mar-2003 20:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (catohagen):
Hello,

"Morphos isnt finished, you get the OS with the hardware, and you become
a 'betatester'..."

I don't care as soon as it runs well and allow me to do what I want, it's just perfect. ANd that's what MorphOS do today already :)
It's even easier to install MorphOS on a Pegasos than to install Windows or MacOS 9/X on a PC or Mac ;)

Bye
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 53 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 02-Mar-2003 20:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (catohagen):
>Mai is a huge company compared to Genesi, i fail to see how you could even
>predict Mai stopping production of Articas or Teron's....but ofcource anything
>can happen.. :)

How do you know how large Mai is? They are quite small, actually smaller than Genesi. So please, check your facts first.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 54 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 02-Mar-2003 22:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Nate Downes):
>How do you know how large Mai is? They are quite small, actually smaller than >Genesi. So please, check your facts first.

oh...i meant large/big as in whats they've done/made...how many patents and inventions do Mai Logic have and how many does Genesi have ? :)

Genesi havent really done anything ? Ralph did Morphos and Bplan did the HW...

With the amount of patents and inventions Mai have, its likely they will
survive longer than Genesi :)
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 55 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 02-Mar-2003 22:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (catohagen):
>Genesi havent really done anything ?
WAAAIITT....im sorry...

Genesi did the April chip ? or was that Bplan too ?
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 56 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Doobrey on 02-Mar-2003 22:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (catohagen):
>no, is morphos available as a complete product with installer ?

What about OS4 catohagen??
Didn`t Fleecy and Ben say at WOASE that OS4 will only be bundled with an A1 board??

Why does it matter if you can`t buy MorphOS or OS4 as a separate product?
At the moment both OS`s are tied to specific hardware, so their is no point in unbundling them..unless you just wanna buy a nice shiny CD and play frisby with it !
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 57 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 02-Mar-2003 23:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (catohagen):
bPlan *is* Genesi, Genesi was formed from the merging of Thendic France and bPlan.

As for making things, the pegasos is not Genesi's sole product.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 58 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 03-Mar-2003 01:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (MiniBobF):
Sure, it would be perfectly possible for _Hyperion_ to port _OS4_ to Pegasos, but simply hacking the "dongle-code" will not do .. the HAL would need to be changed to be able to handle the differences between the two motherboards (and the "BIOS"), and as such, Hyperion could probably also port OS4 to PegasosII, that is, provided they really are interested in expanding their market for OS4...


- CISC
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 59 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 03-Mar-2003 01:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (catohagen):
Well, I'll put that down to bad wording, and ascribe it to having a third party trying to negotiate with ainc/hyperion about porting OS4 (and then it'll have to be without a dongle, or atleast some other means of dongling)...


- CISC
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 60 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 04:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (catohagen):
>i meant large/big as in whats they've done/made...how many patents and inventions do Mai Logic have They invent and patent buggy chips!? :o)
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 61 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 06:06 GMT
IMHO there is one good reason not to buy any Genesi-products. And that's their "we are gods, everyone else suxx" attitude towards all competition. So a 600MHz G3 will be faster than a 800MHz with Altivec? Ok, let's compare. I'll compile an MPEG decoder with full Altivec optimizations and run it on a G4 and you do the same (without Altivec) on a G3 and we'll see which is faster. Bah!

Personally I always found both MorphOS and Pegasos to be very interesting products, but with marketing like that, I just couldn't care less about them any more. I know you have to scream to be heard nowadays, but rather than trying to make other products look bad, they should focus on making their product look good, something they recently have failed miserably.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 62 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by stefkos on 03-Mar-2003 07:10 GMT
Please stop talking bullshit.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 63 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 08:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (bbrv):
Kommunity is better, no?
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 64 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Remco Komduur):
uae is more of an amiga...
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 65 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 08:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (bbrv):
sometimes, people just have a mindset so rigid and unimaginative that it's just too much not to vent frustration at these times
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 66 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 08:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Kelly Samel):
nicely summed up. genesi is a cooler setup
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 67 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Frodon):
>I don't care as soon as it runs well and allow me to do what I want, it's just perfect. ANd that's what MorphOS do today already :)
>It's even easier to install MorphOS on a Pegasos than to install Windows or MacOS 9/X on a PC or Mac ;)

Why don't you stop using your mac/OSX to chat then ? hum ? ;)
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 68 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by avanger on 03-Mar-2003 10:21 GMT
The problem is: IS MOS/PEG legal????

I'm sure that it isn't.
And if Amiga have had money, he could maybe do some lawsuits.

Hey huys, do you know you are giving your money to someone who is injuring the copyrights of Amiga Inc?


Maybe another Bill gates, but I'd rather Bill McEwen, who is a loyal person!!!
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 69 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by blackstar on 03-Mar-2003 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (bbrv):
>Our license for Amiga DE, our legal complaint for Breech of Contract, and >Amiga Inc.'s answer are all a matter of public record. The Court will render a >decision after all the issues are considered. Discovery and document >production are next. People will be able to make up their own minds as many >more details become public. It seems time for many things to become more well >known.

Well, BBuck, did you know that you are using an Amiga like API without paying royalities???? You forgot to mention that Amiga ask royalties (as Amiga and workbench are their own properties).
So you're a coward, you are selling a software without having permition!!!

And THIS is the point that you don't talk about dear coward!


>If you are discussing Hyperion, what exactly did we say against them? We >offered them a Pegasos and to support the process of bringing OS4 legally to >the platform (please do not misquote me -- there has been enough of that).

Well, pay royalties, and for shure, you will be have an excellent communication with the excellent Amiga Inc compagny.

>3. Please post here the "personal threats and slander" I am accused of making.

I ACCUSE YOU TO BE IN INJURY OF AMIGA COPYRIGHTS!

>4. The OS4 dongle "strategy" is based on concepts that indicate a significant >lack of understanding of this market.

Hehe, if you think this....where you're a coward after all, maybe you have some reasons to think this way.

>5. The Pegasos I to Pegasos II change? Do you think this is something bad? You >are really out of touch here. We are offering a complete upgrade for 200 >Euros. If you are a Phoenix member that would be roughly 599 Euros for a G4 >Pegasos with DDR and three one GB ethernet channels. What is wrong with that?

No Amiga licence, that's the problem

>Contrary to being anti-Amiga, we are actually bringing many people back to the >Community and organizing many that are still here to do something useful. You >should see all the new subscribers to the Phoenix mailing list for Resellers, >Application Developers, Game Developers, User Groups, the Demo Scene, etc. >Have you noticed the "Kommunity" is getting smaller and smaller and the real >Community spirit is coming back.

Yes "Kommunity" is comming smaller and smaller just because guys like you are destroying every efforts to bring another standard.


>Finally, the Pegasos I sold out so you missed you chance to boycott the >products already...;-)

I have boycotted, and you will maybe have to give some explanations when Amiga will manage to stop the MOS...Continue to do lawsuits against a compagny (AINc) who have boughts copyrights, and you will se that law is law.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 70 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 12:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (avanger):
I'm not sure of whether #68-69 is a parody of the absolute morons that sometimes post here, or if this is actually a real person who really "thinks" like this.

It's both funny and scary.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 71 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 03-Mar-2003 12:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (blackstar):
So, Wine is illegal, Lindows is illegal, openbeos is illegal and most emulators
are illegal, right? Don't forget that Microsoft FAILED to stop Lindows and they
have 100000x the money Amiga Inc. has.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 72 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Annoying Anonymoys Coward on 03-Mar-2003 12:30 GMT
I think Amiga Inc must be boycotted because of USA's Iraq war plans.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 73 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Andy on 03-Mar-2003 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Anonymous):
That is not seems very funny to me after reading such a bullshit durring last half year period here. These fucking crazy posters really got me! ANN.lu looks as college newspaper full of most idiotic morons posts.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 74 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 14:07 GMT
Please you all, calm down! The question is not if creating a product like MorphOS is illegal, it's a question wether the way it *may* have been created is legal or not.

The AmigaOS exec sources was leaked a couple of years ago (the OS 3.0 sources I think). If they were used to develop MorphOS, then it may be illegal (I'm no lawyer so I don't really know).

I don't like the way Genesi market its products, but I would never claim they are illegal, because afaik, they are not. Unless someone can prove either way, why do you all even have this discussion? You all know you can't win and it's not YOUR problem, it's Genesi and Amiga who will have to work things out.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 75 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 03-Mar-2003 14:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>So, Wine is illegal, Lindows is illegal, openbeos is illegal and most emulators
>are illegal, right? Don't forget that Microsoft FAILED to stop Lindows and they
>have 100000x the money Amiga Inc. has.

Dont forget that these are EMULATORS you are talking about :)

So morphos is an emulator afterall......nice to FINALLY have cleared that point..

plus, microsoft sued for the Lindows name, not because it ran MS programs, unless i remember wrong...
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 76 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Mar-2003 14:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (catohagen):
Catohagen, no offence but learn to read.
Alkis separated a number of products and emulators.
MorphOS can be compared as openbeos which is not in the emulator category.

>So, Wine is illegal, Lindows is illegal, openbeos is illegal and most emulators
>are illegal, right?
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 77 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 03-Mar-2003 14:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Anonymous):
Ahem, I would point out that it's the A1 crowd that's afraid of having their boards put to the test. So before you proclaim this or that is faster, I've got Pegasos guys willing to put hteir machines on the line to proove the claims, nobody on the other side is willing to stand up and be counted.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 78 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 03-Mar-2003 15:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Anonymous):
Even if the exec sources did leak, how would that help MorphOS which doesn't use exec as it's kernel?
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 79 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 03-Mar-2003 15:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (catohagen):
WINE and OpenBeOS are not emulators, they are API replimentations of older systems.

So please, go back to your trollhole.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 80 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by logain on 03-Mar-2003 17:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (catohagen):
>>Not an existing product!
>ok... to the public..:)

its not even 'unpublically' existing! :)

>where can I buy this STB ?

can you read? ("will be produced")

>and, there are better stb's than the one Genesi can deliver...

The Pegasos-STB we're talking about is still a Computer based on the Pegasos I MB and not a DVB-(T/C/S)-STB.
However, a DVB-STB is in development too (embedded system with 250MHz PPC 403) and will get a special MorphOS version which is currently developed and features havent been announced yet.

>and other stb's run a far more advanced OS suited for STB's than morphos :)

See above. btw. we were talking about, if Genesi depends on the Amiga market which they surely do not otherwise such a "mammut"-project would be impossible.

>Voyager for browsing and Frogger to play DVD movies ?

Both are good products. Wheres the problem if so?

>What do you mean 'you ppl' ?

first 'you' is a typo (hard to guess eh ;)

>no, is morphos available as a complete product with installer ?

(/irony)So a system which dont need an installer, can never be a 'complete' (wantever this means) product..(/irony)
MorphOS is available as a 'complete' product and does not need an installer.

>last install guide I saw, was not how a finished product should be delivered, where you manually copy the contents from the cd

In differ to other OS, MorphOS can directly run from a CD, thats why an installer isnt necessary now. There will be one very soon i think. But wouldnt you agree, that if you can start Windows directly from a CD and install the system with a simple copy of the the CD content to a partition, would be easier and faster? A complete MorphOS installation takes less then 5 minutes! (with formating HD btw :)

>didnt the cd contain a iso image of an cd too?

The CD is bootable!

>Morphos isnt finished

Is Windows 'finished'?

>you become a 'betatester'...

No you get a Pegasos with MorphOS.

>So morphos is an emulator afterall......

Will your emu trolling never stop? It had been explained to you several times.

>microsoft sued for the Lindows name

thats true.

Now something in general Catohagen. I think it deserves respect that the MorphOS-Team put so much work in this project for years and MorphOS is now a very modern, fast and stable OS. It progresses on a daily base, so the little issues you use to nitpick and complain, are often already gone when you start argueing about. Genesi has futhermore a very good finacial background and found partners who got attracted and have big plans with the Hardware and the 'amiga-like-and-compatible' MorphOS.
So much effort and money wasnt put in any product in the amiga-market since Commodore got bust.
Please think about it, when you try so hard to argue against..
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 81 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 03-Mar-2003 19:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (catohagen):
Wine Is Not an Emulator.
Lindows uses wine technology.
Wine is an API wrapper just like MOS. And just like OpenBEOS.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 82 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 04-Mar-2003 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Nate Downes):
"Releasing a new and improved motherboard is a bad thing? Oh no! EVERYONE STOP RUNNING YOUR AMIGA 1200'S! EVERYONE MUST RUN AMIGA 1000'S ONLY!"

Yeah, whatever... that's not what we heard from you MorphOS fans when Amiga Inc. made changes to their plans. How many times haven't we heard "I can't trust a company that changes their plans all the time", huh? Hypocrites...
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 83 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 04-Mar-2003 13:44 GMT
You MorphOS fans can twist and turn things around all you want, but the facts remain; the Pegasos with MorphOS is *only* available to certain key developers and they call it the betatester. Now, go on living your dream about that it would be a finished and released product, just don't be so shocked when you're brutally awakened.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 84 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 04-Mar-2003 17:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (samface):
I'm not a developer, neither are 2/3 of the people in #MorphOS.
Only 100 boards went to developers, the rest were SOLD to users.
Get out of your stupid dreamworld, that's a FACT. Distributors
reserved boards for ANYONE to buy. Unlike Eyetech...
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 85 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 04-Mar-2003 18:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Sorry but when a product is labeled betatester, it isnt hard to understand why people think it *is* beta.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 86 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 04-Mar-2003 19:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Ketzer):
The Pegasos is not a beta-testing version. MorphOS comes as a full version that
is stable, but still beta. Still it's TOTALLY usuable and stable.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 87 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 05-Mar-2003 01:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Ketzer):
The Pegasos hasn't been listed as betatester since the April fix.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 88 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 05-Mar-2003 01:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (samface):
No hange of plans occured, just the timetable moved up by several months. The Pegasos 2 has been part of the plan for quite awhile, just with the problems from Mai they've pushed it ahead faster than before.

Genesi has yet to change plans in the time I've known them. Amiga, Inc, however, has changed plans *and* goals several times since they converted over from Amino. You arguement defeated, please, try and take a swipe again.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 89 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Ray A. Akey on 05-Mar-2003 01:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Nate Downes):
This is going to sound strange coming from me since it can apply to "both sides" of but, a change of plans and/or direction (or pushing dates back, or not releasing something when an ESTIMATED date arrives, etc., etc.) is not a crime, morally or otherwise -- unless there is some binding contract.

When a change of plans was decided, Amiga has notified everyone through PR whether it be by news on our site or announcements at industry/show/conference appearances.

I can't speak for "the other side" but from what I've read they too, whether planned or otherwise, made changes (or at least pushed internal dates up as Nate says -- which to the outsider looks like a change of plans) but also notified their "target market."

It may look like lying, deceipt or "rip-off" and that's what many, who are in opposition to the given side, will claim but in the long run it is simply what it is -- a means to assure or project some means of staying alive and/or bettering your product.

Surely, that can't be bad, unless you're hanging on to a long dead past. Things change, computing progresses. We all do what we can to survive. As long as the final outcome is better than the original plan was to unveil, I don't see any reason to cry foul.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 90 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 05-Mar-2003 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Alkis, you know damn well that Pegasos boards are only sold to certain handpicked individuals, sometimes even handpicked by R&B themselves. If I order a Pegasos, I'm only guaranteed to get one if I'm a distinguished developer. That's not what I would refer to as an official public release but rather a limited prerelease edition.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 91 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Golem on 05-Mar-2003 11:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (samface):
*PLONK*
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 92 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Mar-2003 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (samface):
Don´t make a fool out of yourself, ask your local Pegasos dealer for availability.
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 93 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 05-Mar-2003 13:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (samface):
Sammy, if you want a Pegasos --just to show you there is no discrimination-- we will sell you one directly through our distributor in Sweden Gunne Steen.

Hälsningar !

Raquel and Bill
Enough - I will boycott Genesi/Thendic products : Comment 94 of 94ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 05-Mar-2003 14:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (samface):
YOU make a fool of yourself, I know VERY well which RETAILERS ordered Pegasos
boards and will get them these days. KDH, Vesalia, aps and several others SELL
boards to END-USERS. So... Either you're a liar or ignorant. Choose.
A friend of mine ordered a Pegasos and will get one, he's not a developer
neither did bb&rv KNOW that he's my friend, even I didn't know he ordered one.
Order a M*TH*R F*****G Pegasos board and YOU *WILL* get one, NO MATTER who you
are. Only the AmigaONE is available to selected developers right now, lot's
preorder, nobody else gets one...
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