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[Rant] And Hakim wept...ANN.lu
Posted on 02-Mar-2003 22:17 GMT by S. Hakim Hamdani31 comments
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Albeit a long time Amiga lover and active user, the recent war on ANN is bringing tears to my eyes... Dear All, just a short note from someone, who after ten + years with the lovely Miggy, has to see his favourite platform splinter, shatter and boycott itself in everlasting new flame wars and defamations. Where has the spirit gone, the dedication, the TOLERANCE and welcoming of new technology bringing our "beloved" machines that little bit further. There was no right and wrong, only ahead, towards a brighter future. My 4000T lies dormant for now, under the table, and in its place a SGI Octane brings me the news from "Planet Amiga". I will revive it, eventually, but active participation in the community? I donīt think so, itīs become so alien to me. Regards, in hope of a settlement and the return of tolerance... Hakim.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 1 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by %00 on 02-Mar-2003 21:40 GMT
You're not alone :-(
And Hakim wept... : Comment 2 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Niclas Aronsson on 02-Mar-2003 21:45 GMT
I too wounder were the Amiga spirit has gone... I hate this MOS/OS4 PCI this/PCI that wars =(

One thing for sure is that it will never be like the "good" old Commondore days.
//Niclas
And Hakim wept... : Comment 3 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 02-Mar-2003 21:46 GMT
Until any party starts producing something in enough numbers for it to be available for everyone, then we won't get anywhere.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 4 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 02-Mar-2003 21:47 GMT
I think its basically two things, first the frustration of the whole situation, and how it has stagnated year after year, and second that there are a few assholes who enjoy the fighting...
And Hakim wept... : Comment 5 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 02-Mar-2003 21:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Peter Gordon):
I know what you mean there.

Worst part is, the attempts to solve this situation just end up with rebuttal after rebuttal, and flame after flame. It's made the next moves even more painful for me.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 6 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 02-Mar-2003 22:28 GMT
Aww Hakim! We're not all like that. We don't all relish never ending slagging matches and upmanship. With some luck eventually the old spirit(decent people)will be heard above the shouters. All growth endures pain of some sort.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 7 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 02-Mar-2003 22:52 GMT
We should just all talk away, til there are actual mass produced products. No more rumors, flame, inuendo, slander, FUD. We should just all walk away. Maybe that will make them grow up.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 8 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 03-Mar-2003 00:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (KenH):
What makes Hakim think he is so important that "leaving the Amiga (for now..)"
deserves a whole thread on ANN?

You'd think he gave birth to an A1000 himself from the whimpering..
And Hakim wept... : Comment 9 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 03-Mar-2003 00:41 GMT
When both machines are available, the flames will drop to nearly zero. Even dare I say, people won't even be talking to each other. Why, bitterness or anger?

NO!!!!

Because we will be Waaaayyyyy too busy USING our PREFERRED choice, and having EXTREME FUN!!!!

AmigaOne! The CAN DO machine!
And Hakim wept... : Comment 10 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 00:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Atheist2):
>When both machines are available, the flames will drop to nearly zero.

like between Amiga and Atari ST users? lol
And Hakim wept... : Comment 11 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 03-Mar-2003 00:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Neko):
Hey now Neko, I think you've had more than your fair share of threads devoted to you. Jealous are we? ;)
But in any case, he's not proclaiming his leaving...more his sadness for the situation as he sees it. That's a valid enough topic in my view.

>What makes Hakim think he is so important that "leaving the Amiga (for now..)"
deserves a whole thread on ANN?
And Hakim wept... : Comment 12 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 03-Mar-2003 00:52 GMT
This is nothing new, and not unique to any Computer Platform, or indeed any subject in life that people care about.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 13 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Mar-2003 02:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Neko):
ANN is one of the place where Amigans put down their frustrations.
I prefer that kind of rant thread than insult comments.
Hopefully we won't have much frustrated people sometime soon.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 14 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 03-Mar-2003 03:33 GMT
IMHO a little funny time to leave now that finally it seems like OS4 and AOne are coming, OS4 even looking good on paper. If I hadn't made my decision a few months ago I'd wait a little while. Of course I still have the same option as everybody else, to purchase A1/OS4 when released, and I might just do that.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 15 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 03-Mar-2003 06:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Hooligan/DCS):
He didn't say he would leave, he only said he didn't want to participate in this community, and why should he. Not like one really expects some constructive response to a post in the community forums.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 16 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 03-Mar-2003 06:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (m0ns00n):
Yeah.. maybe.. I understood it so that the guy is thinking of leaving Amiga days behind. Even so, what point is it to continue using Amiga anymore if you can't enjoy the fruitfull discussions of the community in these forums ;-)
And Hakim wept... : Comment 17 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 03-Mar-2003 07:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (KenH):
He proclaimed that his Amiga will be switched off for the duration.

Now why did he need to start a whole new thread to tell us?

Maybe there'll have been a few threads on here about me but I certainly did not
start them with a weepy self-aggrandising front page post. What do you idiots
see in yourselves that means that "I won't touch my Amiga" or "I'm leaving the
community and I'm sad about it.. but I'm forced" is such a BFD?

You are, by your own admission, one of a thousand or more insignificant blips
on the radar landscape. When Mike Bouma famously quit for the 7th time in his
illustrious career as a sensationalist prick in the Community, and came back
with his tail between his legs for the 7th time running, what made that so
special?

I guess we can all pat him on the back now, since at least he wrote an article.
Someone tell me who the bugg*ry f*ck Hakim is anyway that even makes him
noticable outside of ANN forums?

Neko
And Hakim wept... : Comment 18 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 03-Mar-2003 07:15 GMT
Remember one thing!!

Don't leave the Amiga scene for it. It's still alive. Don't judge it by the information you get from these places. Many, many Amiga users don't comment or read this list anymore but still use their Amiga's.
They just don't like the nonsense, misbehaviour and misinformation that has been going on. They will return to these lists if word gets out that the behaviour has returned to normal.

And look at me. I also hope for OS 4 and the AmigaOne soon but I also know how much time programming and getting hardware ready really takes. So offcourse I'm not frustrated. It's just Hyperion and a 30 odd so programmers and Eyetech doing ALL the stuff. Who have had set backs.

If you approach this logically then you will see that we have made much, much progress since Hyperion, Eyetech and the other programmers took over.

Untill then, just enjoy your Amiga. I do. As the matter is a fact I just bought a second hand Amiga with a Blizzard 1230-IV again just for fun to see how fast I can get it with OS3.9

What you have to do is to take the logical approach here and keep in mind how much work programming and hardware developping actually takes.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 19 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Mar-2003 07:30 GMT
"My 4000T lies dormant for now, under the table, and in its place a SGI Octane brings me the news from "Planet Amiga"."

Is this because you don't have a graphics card? Web browsing on AGA is admittedly not very nice.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 20 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by amigacooke on 03-Mar-2003 09:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Neko):
Neko, I presume you work for either Microsoft or Apple. The enthusiasm you devote to driving away potential Amiga/MOS customers surely must have some reason, it can't just be your own intolerance,.... can it?
And Hakim wept... : Comment 21 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Solar on 03-Mar-2003 09:59 GMT
And again, someone expresses frustration, depression, and/or disgust to the point of putting a dream to rest.

And again, people step up and say, "who is that guy that he thinks we would care?"

And that is exactly what those expressing their angst tried to point out in the first place...

Hello? Amiga was once as much about community, fun, that glimmer in your eyes, as it was about "real" things, like getting your work done in a comfortable and enjoyable way.

Why on earth would someone have to be something "important" to be considered "worthy" of expressing his feelings when leaving a dream behind?

Who would have to leave the shaggy remnants of this "community" so you would feel the pain? Who *is* left after all? Christian Kemp? Wayne Hunt? Petra Struck? Or more on the development front? Did you feel the pain when Nicola Salmoria left for good? Dietmar Eilert? Did you cry out when Maxon left, or Digita, or when TurboCalc was discontinued?

Did you actually realize what it meant, in the Amiga "market", when you cheered the "released to GPL" of your favourite software title? *Does* AWeb support CSS, JavaScript and Flash by now?

The "community" is approaching the big red zero, and everytime someone takes his leave, all you hear is "well, be gone, you're not important anyhow, we'll manage without you loser". Let yourself be asked, would *you* be missed if you leave today?

And how would you feel if, after all that time, all you get for a farewell is "get lost"?!?
And Hakim wept... : Comment 22 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Mar-2003 14:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Solar):
>And again, people step up and say, "who is that guy that he thinks we would care?"

Common Solar, this is not people, this is Neko.
I never knew anyone with such an arrogance as Neko.

There are several ways to enjoy the community. ANN is where all the branches of the community meet and usualy a vocal minority fight in flamewars.
Sometimes I just read the posts and avoid to read comments as I'am definitely loosing my time and getting angry at anonymous posters. Sometimes I like to put my opinion. Sometime I like to participate on other sites , irc etc ...
And Hakim wept... : Comment 23 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 03-Mar-2003 15:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Neko):
And here we go again.. Mr. Neko was it really nesessary to post that ? Comments like that prove that Hakim is right :P I have to say i aggree with him :( Some people use every possible situation, some people really seem to enjoy fighting.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 24 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 03-Mar-2003 17:15 GMT
I would like to see both sides join forces and concentrate efforts on ONE OS combining the best aspects of MorphOS and AmigaOS4. Enough of this fighting. There are talented people on both sides and both OS's have some really nice features (like roadshow tcp/ip stack in OS4 or the Ambient desktop and 68k emulator in MOS). Time to kiss and make up.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 25 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 03-Mar-2003 18:12 GMT
You are absolutely right Hakim, I, for one, will slag you undlessly if you ever post again. So goodbye, time for you to go....anyone says otherwise, they are wrong.

But seriously....as someone said, its the lack of new products that is the problem.

If I had positive things to talk about, I know the amount of positive discussions I have increases dramatically. I would personally love to be talking about new developments, even contributing, but you know even buying a motherboard is impossible right now.

It may change...we all hope, but I don't blame anyone for not waiting, we've waited years and years.

I've seen the recent slate of people buying computers, not waiting any longer...amiga just missed this buying season for some of their fans, theres always the future.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 26 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 03-Mar-2003 18:13 GMT
..sorry to say (and this does occasionally happen) but I agree with Neko.

if we had a thread on Ann.lu for each person who said they were leaving...well! there'd not even be a chance to see any real news or info on this list.

people go. fact of life. people leave many scenes. some people also arrive...or join the online community. My A1200 is still online
and working for me.

the reason why theres so many silly arguments is that everyone is hanging around doing nothing. and, just like in real life.... idle hands make work for the devil.... once the new systems are here, i'm sure quite a few people
will start to become productive again. if not, then they're just sad losers
who have nothing better to do in life ;-)

alan
And Hakim wept... : Comment 27 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Mar-2003 19:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (alan buxey):
The problem with Neko most of the time is not his opinion but how he put it into words.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 28 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Chinga tu madre wero on 03-Mar-2003 22:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Christophe Decanini):
Maybe when I'm one of the last 100 Amigans throwing in the towel, then Neko will show a little concern about his beloved platform and the future of the dwindling userbase. Or maybe not.

Ultimately no one gives two shits about Amiga leavers... it seems and especially even less of Neko.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 29 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 04-Mar-2003 08:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Chinga tu madre wero):
"and hakim wept"

Wheres the sick bucket? Hakim shouldn't be such a wet blanket.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 30 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Colin on 04-Mar-2003 12:56 GMT
Pirate Vapor products is the answer.
And Hakim wept... : Comment 31 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Golem on 05-Mar-2003 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Colin):
What was the question?
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