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[News] Eyetech talks about TerrasoftANN.lu
Posted on 12-Mar-2003 05:59 GMT by Christian Kemp (Edited on 2003-03-12 08:46:13 GMT by Christian Kemp)146 comments
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An anonymous reader links to this message by Alan Redhouse talking about Terrasoft, a possible 1.3Ghz CPU module, and XE delivery dates.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 51 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 12-Mar-2003 11:33 GMT
good update info. and reasonable comment about some of the users of ann.lu

i dont see why any of this should degenerate into some AmigaONE v's Pegasos
flame war.


but i do have one question, where is that 'non-an-eyetech-fan' luser?

I'd have expected to have seen his useless trollpost on this thread by now...tut tut. he's losing it..it seems 8-)

alan
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 52 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by The big brother on 12-Mar-2003 11:47 GMT
Something is happening...

First, Amiga.org has been killed: lot of personal and public
attacks until the owner has been forced to change servers
and lost any Amiga support.

Then a clone service of Amiga.org has been started, it's
AmigaWorld.net. There our good Fleecy suddenly becomed
available to answer people's questions. Good idea but also
good way to attract people from other sites; read: Amiga.org
where too much people were against Amiga Inc. Obviously on
AmigaWorld.net you can talk about the Iraqi war but not about
MorphOS, AROS, PegasOS and so on. It's moderated, it's
against flames.

Now it's the time of ANN: too much flames, too much critics
to Amiga Inc and his partners. The hope to have them reduced
by the "trusted users" idea has been expressed by someone
involved with Amiga.

What next?


Jay, forgive them...
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 53 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 12-Mar-2003 11:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (The big brother):
> First, Amiga.org has been killed: lot of personal and public
> attacks until the owner has been forced to change servers
> and lost any Amiga support.

Thats patently not true; read Wayne's "Mission Statement", and "Statement of ownership" posts and stop relying on gossip.

> Then a clone service of Amiga.org has been started, it's
> AmigaWorld.net.

AmigaWorld.net is not an "Amiga.org clone" its just another Xoops based Amiga site that happens to have a bias towards Amiga. (Note: thats not necessarily a bad thing. MorphOS has morphzone.org and morphos-news.de, and both MorphOS and AmigaOS supporters, or those who don't have a preference have sites like this and Amiga.org. Its all good.)

> There our good Fleecy suddenly becomed
> available to answer people's questions. Good idea but also
> good way to attract people from other sites; read: Amiga.org
> where too much people were against Amiga Inc.

Patently not true; Amiga.org has a lot of people from all (or no) "camps".
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 54 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 12-Mar-2003 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (The big brother):
> Obviously on AmigaWorld.net you can talk about the Iraqi war but not about
> MorphOS, AROS, PegasOS and so on. It's moderated, it's against flames.

And there are no flames in wars! ;-)
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 55 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Mar-2003 12:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (The big brother):
"Then a clone service of Amiga.org has been started, it's
AmigaWorld.net"

You seem to have missed the fact that amigaworld.net and its IRC channel have been going for years and haven't just popped up now to take over from amiga.org
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 56 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 12-Mar-2003 12:26 GMT
I'm sure the amigaworld.net orcs will try to make something glorious of all this ...
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 57 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 12:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Christophe Decanini):
Lets all pick on AmigaWorld.net people day.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 58 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Troels E on 12-Mar-2003 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Christophe Decanini):
What are you trying to say Christophe?
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 59 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 12-Mar-2003 12:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Troels E):
He's just taking a "cheap" shot at someone ;-)
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 60 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 12-Mar-2003 12:47 GMT
I don't know what the final specs of the XE motherboard will be but unless it won't be more than with the current amigaone models (133MHz FSB SDRAM) There won't be much point of fitting in a 1.3ghz g4 because the low speed buses will hinder the processor by creating bottlenecks. The same goes for the pegasos and pegasos2.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 61 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 12-Mar-2003 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Ole-Egil):
> He's just taking a "cheap" shot at someone ;-)

Did he really (I thought that kind of comments were "OK")? Perhaps it depends on the source?!
;-)
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 62 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 12-Mar-2003 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (takemehomegrandma):
I didn't think people who moderate comments, and generally try to keep the "peace", should make cheap shots at other websites?

Ian
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 63 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 12-Mar-2003 13:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Troels E):
I'am just paraphrasing Alan to show how Christian and I can feel about his message.
There is misinformation on every site but there are also very valuable information. It is just up to the people to know how to sort it out.
I prefer to sort it out myself than having VERY biased people sort it out for me.
My feeling is that Alan is not talking just about the idiot insulting anonymous.
Just for an example do you remember the "orcs" that where saying in january that the Amigaone would not be vailable in february as announced ...

Also, it is like a [trustfull] friend of mine who has been called a liar here because he said that AmigaOS4 for Amigaone may not ship before the end of the year while answering to an Amigaone dealer "OS4 for sale in march on Amigaone" announcement.

The situation become more and more pathetic the more we wait. And this is just one more delay announcement with a few good news to make the delay acceptable.

I have nothing against Eyetech or Hyperion effort but I definitely know that Ben has been playing the "almost ready" game for more than one year. Eyetech has said that Thendic was not viable because it was a SARL company.
There are some very profitable companies that are SARL. When I see such statements I wonder if the Terrasoft statement is right or just bullshit. Maybe I should check by myself as I definitely do not trust anymore a lot of people in this "market".
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 64 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 12-Mar-2003 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Ian Shurmer):
I agree.
First my paraphrase was aimed at the people who were defending Alan claims on ann. As these people are amigaworld.net users or even admins (?) it was an easy hit.

But also if you go to this website you can see how they shoot on the other sites.
I moderate any article, even the ones promoting a site who criticize the one I'am moderating. If they got so much publicity it is thanks to Amiga.org and ANN big traffic.

I also put my opinion here, even more when I feel attacked (ok maybe attacked is a bit heavy but I can not find the right word).
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 65 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 13:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Christophe Decanini):
I fail to see the "hit" frankly, I am an AmigaWorld.net user, an Amiga.org user
a Slashdot user, an ANN user etc etc etc.

I also failed to see what point you were mentioning. I don't think ANN is pro
or anti to be honest but I do think a large percentage of the population ( or
at least the posts of late ) have been trolling. Regardless of "side" they
take.

Everyone seems to pick on amigaworld.net at the moment, its just another target
because it is "pro" Amiga*. MorphOS-news is "pro" MorphOS* but I don't see
the same hypocrites flaming it.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 66 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 12-Mar-2003 13:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>>Much like Alan has done now, I have in the past expressed concerns
>>about the quality of discussion here and elsewhere.

>>These endless flamewars, impersonations, silly recriminations, personal
>>insults etc. are very off putting to many users.

>>It's just a handful of people doing this on either side of the debate
>>but they ruin the experience for many of us.

>>This has nothing to do with ANN as such nor with the excellent job
>>Christian & Co are doing here.

That is a SLAM ON ANN and NOTHING LESS.
Since I have "concerns" about the quality of response the Mr. Hermans is
capable of making, I will ask DaveP to respond and not Mr. Hermans.

You ask people some hard questions, proof. Where is the proof?
I have been on the internet since the beginning and I submit that
this is typical discussions. The discussion on comp.sys.amiga.misc
were every bit as animated as on ANN.LU. This is a normal discussion board,
it is not in any way full of 'flamers'.

This is all codewords for intolerance. I submit Mr. Hermans is very upset
when an opinion doesn't go his way, and I have never heard him once
criticize one of his fans. Its not about 'flaming' its about obtaining
'agreement'.

Everyone can form their own opinion....does Mr. Hermans get upset to hear
anti-hyperion talk, even when its civil, or does he get upset about
emotional language even when its in favor of hyperion.

Let everyone form their own opinion, I know exactly how I'd answer that question.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 67 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (MarkTime):
@MarkTime

Am I reading this right, do you want me to answer that or were you making
just a point and you picked my name at random? Quite happy to but its the
end of my teabreak.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 68 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 12-Mar-2003 13:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (DaveP):
you read it right, I was addressing the question to you.

The reason being, is I think you have actually put forth some thoughtful arguments.

nevertheless one point I truly believe is wrong. The idea that 'recently ANN
and other places have become places for trolling'

This just isn't true. Recently ANN has been much the same as its always been,
as ANN has been much the same as comp.sys.amiga.misc was before it, as
BITNET was before that.

There is nothing new under the sun (as far as the way people communicate).

to me, its an interesting point, and I would appreciate a discussion.

Mr. Hermans will never do anything but slam ANN in vague ways, he's not
concerned about such a discussion.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 69 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 12-Mar-2003 13:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (DaveP):
"I fail to see the "hit" frankly, I am an AmigaWorld.net user, an Amiga.org user a Slashdot user, an ANN user etc etc etc."

I was looking for a reaction from the same people who said that we should not react to these "picking on ANN".
You are the perfect example of such reactions.

"I also failed to see what point you were mentioning. I don't think ANN is pro
or anti to be honest but I do think a large percentage of the population ( or
at least the posts of late ) have been trolling. Regardless of "side" they
take."

I agree but it is also right on all the other sites.

"Everyone seems to pick on amigaworld.net at the moment, its just another target because it is "pro" Amiga*. MorphOS-news is "pro" MorphOS* but I don't see the same hypocrites flaming it."

MorphOS-news did not say anything bad about ANN so far. If they do, believe me I will react !
The hyprocrites are the one that do not accept to have their site criticized while they have been criticizing the other sites.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 70 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Christophe Decanini):
No. You missed something from what I said. I am not the perfect example
because I said "pick on Amigaworld.net USERS" and not "pick on AmigaWorld".
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 71 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 12-Mar-2003 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Christophe Decanini):
Christophe,

You took the words right out of my mouth. What's wrong with Amigaworld.net, is they weren't formed for positive reasons at all.

Their entire strategy so far, is to slam other sites, especially Amiga.org.

I don't know why we need another amiga site, I would consider another amiga site...for example, up comes an auction site, and I know the reason 'auctions'...up comes a games page, and I know the reason 'games'.

The reason for this site...we are not amiga.org!

Well I guess that makes sense to some people, but I was completely baffled, bewildered...

I immeidiately disliked them, and I make no apologies for it.
They attacked a good site, in Amiga.org, and they insulted the intelligence
of all people who enjoy amiga.org.

They are no community builders, thats for sure.

"It's the strange math of addition by division"
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 72 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Darren Eveland on 12-Mar-2003 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Christian Kemp):
Christian, I think Alan did not bash "ANN" specifically, but ANN "posters", some of who he referred to as "orcs".

I would tend to agree with Alan, some of the posts here are total trash and do alot of perceived harm to the Amiga community (if such a thing exists anymore).
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 73 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 14:00 GMT
OK risking boss wrath here....

Firstly Ben Hermans does not say that this is recent behaviour. I have been
spoofed many times in the past and had terrible trouble trying to get people
to believe I didn't make such asnine statements like "Pegasos is just a Mac".

Secondly I don't agree that it is a slur on ANN because it is quite frankly
evidenced by the content of the posting of late. Lets look at the accusations
one by one:

#1 Troels post had the point "Its not about the site, its about SOME of the users". Ben
followed up agreeing with that analysis. No where in Bens comment #44 do I see
him making a DIRECT criticism of the site.


#2 Ben said:"Much like Alan has done now, I have in the past expressed concerns about the quality of discussion here and elsewhere. "
He probably has expressed those concerns, but here we see no detail of what those concerns
were apart from "quality of discussion". This could be taken two ways but unfortunately
or Ben the most probably interpretation is the general one - that the quality of
debate in general is shocking. Is this evidenced? Yes and no. Yes in that the quality
posts are drowned in the noise from the trolls, no in that there are few trolls making
lot of noise and often the debate here has a HECK of a lot of quality.

#3 " These endless flamewars, impersonations, silly recriminations, personal insults etc. are very off putting to many users. "
OK, exaggeration "endless", they tend to have a finite life span in my experience. Bad
point is "silly recriminations". They do happen but decribing anything as silly is subjective.
Personal insults? Phew do we get them on ANN!

He does make one fair point that isn't the same as other places that don't allow
it ( like usenet where you can work it out from the header - e.g. SteveG ), the impersonations
one. This has made ANN quite difficult to read, in fact MooBunny also had a spate of
impersonations for a while and that has similar "debate quality" problems but in the main
because it is less popular than ANN it does not come under the same fire. So yes
some of the criticism would also apply to MooBunny but then look up a paragraph
and he sayes "here and elsewhere". Covered, just. Two paragraphs down "This is
nothing to do with ANN".

So I find Bens remarks reasonably fair given the qualifiers he puts in there. ANNs
biggest problem is the background noise from the impersonaters and the swear-kids.

OK so now onto your post.

Phew!
"I have been on the internet since the beginning and I submit that
this is typical discussions. The discussion on comp.sys.amiga.misc
were every bit as animated as on ANN.LU. This is a normal discussion board,
it is not in any way full of 'flamers'. "

Well to be fair I have been a lurker of csam for a LONG time and it is just
as full of flamers as here, and impersonators so I think that you are right
this is typical "internet" fare. However there is no reason why not to strive
for better and as said before on Usenet you can at least identify a spoofer
simply and even better - add them to your killfile ;-)


" This is all codewords for intolerance. I submit Mr. Hermans is very upset
when an opinion doesn't go his way, and I have never heard him once
criticize one of his fans. Its not about 'flaming' its about obtaining
'agreement'. "
Well I hope it isn't codewords for intolerance. I see no reason why we cant
have the debate without the personal references, the impersonations and the
trolling. Like for example debates are in real life when people are faced by
each other. WRT Ben, I have never heard him criticize one of his fans *on here*
although I ask the question - does he have "fans"?
I can't answer the last bit because I am missing a part of your reasoning that
takes us from not being about flaming but about obtaining agreement. Can you supply
more of your train of thought?

"Everyone can form their own opinion....does Mr. Hermans get upset to hear
anti-hyperion talk, even when its civil, or does he get upset about
emotional language even when its in favor of hyperion. "
I would say that everyone can form their own opinions and should, the problem
is a lot of people don't. In chatrooms and on other sites you can see myths
picked up from deliberate distortions on other chat rooms/sites repeated as
verbatim fact.
Second part, I would say that Ben, like every other human being ( e.g. Christian
over ANN ) would get upset over anti-hyperion talk. Everyone in those circumstances
has bias which is why when I read peoples posts I always have a "well they would
react like this" mental checklist. I have read commments ( sickly positive ) that
frankly make we want to puke in the nearest styrofoam cup but what can you say? Its
like whipping a puppy dog that is humping your leg - you both come away feeling
dirtied from the experience.

Finally thanks for the compliment MarkTime. I do try to think things through
before I post and I don't always succeed. I also try not to be biased one
way or another but obviously fail frequently ( see Christophes comments on the
subject ).

If everyone can discuss things civilly, and say Ben Hermans throws a tantrum
then his views will be exposed much more effectively than yours or mine speculation
about his "human" reactions.

TTFN

Dave. ( in trouble )
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 74 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 12-Mar-2003 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Christian Kemp):
"And all these accusations of bias are getting old... If my bias was really showing through, I'd probably be plugging some alternative x86 platform at every possible occasion. So what was your point, again?"

cough AROS cough cough, cough? ;-D
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 75 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Mr Anonymous on 12-Mar-2003 14:06 GMT
Mr Kemp,

What I do not understand is how you do NOT see what Alan Redhouse said as being libelous towards Terrasoft.

We will know in the next few days what kind of fallout this has over at Terrasoft, won't we?
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 76 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Christophe Decanini):
@Christophe

Well Im in trouble already, so why not take more time out? ;-D

Morphos-news.de focusses primarily on MorphOS. It doesn't get slammed for it. People
talk about AmigaOS ( in some cases in a NEGATIVE TROLLING FLAMING WAY btw ) and
do not get warned/modded about it. Few slag MOS-news for it. At least not
the same people ;-)

AmigaWorld.net focusses primarily on Amiga*. It does get slammed for it. People
talk about MorphOS ( in some cases in a NEGATIVE TROLLING FLAMING WAY btw ) and
if some of us point it out it does get warned/modded. Many slag AmigaWorld.net
for it.

That is the hypocrisy I do not like.

AmigaWorld.net was not formed as "We are not Amiga.org" btw, lots of people migrated
there to make a stance against Amiga.org, and lots of people did not ( me included ).

I agree with you that ANN is as good/bad as anywhere else ( apart from the spoofing
and Colin/Peter/Whatever he calls himself today ).

However I am now in deep s**t so must go.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 77 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Christophe Decanini):
@Christophe

Well Im in trouble already, so why not take more time out? ;-D

Morphos-news.de focusses primarily on MorphOS. It doesn't get slammed for it. People
talk about AmigaOS ( in some cases in a NEGATIVE TROLLING FLAMING WAY btw ) and
do not get warned/modded about it. Few slag MOS-news for it. At least not
the same people ;-)

AmigaWorld.net focusses primarily on Amiga*. It does get slammed for it. People
talk about MorphOS ( in some cases in a NEGATIVE TROLLING FLAMING WAY btw ) and
if some of us point it out it does get warned/modded. Many slag AmigaWorld.net
for it.

That is the hypocrisy I do not like.

AmigaWorld.net was not formed as "We are not Amiga.org" btw, lots of people migrated
there to make a stance against Amiga.org, and lots of people did not ( me included ).

I agree with you that ANN is as good/bad as anywhere else ( apart from the spoofing
and Colin/Peter/Whatever he calls himself today ).

However I am now in deep s**t so must go.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 78 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 12-Mar-2003 14:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (The big brother):
> First, Amiga.org has been killed: lot of personal and public
> attacks until the owner has been forced to change servers
> and lost any Amiga support.

I don't see Amiga.org as dead. Far from it. I applaude Wayne for moving off of Amiga Inc's server, thereby gaining much needed independence. It must have been very stressful to know your site is seconds away from being shutdown if the wrong thing is said. FleecyWorld.com will probably just limp along, not too many trademark fanatics can keep that claptrap from getting stale.

Dammy
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 79 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 12-Mar-2003 14:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (DaveP):
In Reply to Comment 56:

> Lets all pick on AmigaWorld.net people day.

Well, it's easy to do when the entire site is a claptrap.

Dammy
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 80 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 12-Mar-2003 14:26 GMT
It's interesting to see that every piece of critisism that the AmigaOne / AmigaOS 4 people get for sticking behind these companies also goes for the people who make the critisism.

If MorphOS has forum site dedicated to it and AmigaOS 4 has a forum site dedicated to it, I see no problem. There is no problem either.

The only thing I see here is that the Amiga version is bad mouthed all the way!!
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 81 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 12-Mar-2003 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Christophe Decanini):
Christophe,

I can understand your frustration with certain people. However, I am not only an ANN user, but also an Amiga.org and an Amigaworld.net user, and I do not understand why every amigaworld.net user is seen to be a BAF. Why is everyone tarred with the same brush, so to speak? YES there are some idiots that frequent the Amiga forum sites simply to cause trouble, but the majority of people (including myself) simply wish to have friendly discussions about our favourite platform, and I do not think that your comments (as a moderator) are helpful towards extinguishing the flames. However, I do understand that you have your own opinions, but perhaps it would be wise to "moderate" them sometimes! :-D

Also, I do NOT think the Alan's comments were aimed towards the excellent site that you, Christian and Teemu run; and whilst his comment was poorly phrased, I still strongly believe the he was simply referring to the small minority of people who deliberately cause arguments here - surely you can understand his frustration as well?

Thanks, Ian
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 82 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 12-Mar-2003 14:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Ian Shurmer):
I never said all Amigaworld.net users are BAF.
I think some of the admins are and that they will censor any criticism against Amiga Inc, Hyperion and Eyetech.
I know that some people have pushed to the limits this criticism and I don't approve that. I'am for objectiveness and this is why I criticize Amigaworld.net.
I think that Alan could have rephrased is sentence without including ANN in it.
It is not clear who he was reffering too. Many people who did genuine claims in the pasts have been called trolls here.
With doing such claims Alan is exposing himself for more problems that he will complain about later ...
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 83 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 12-Mar-2003 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (DaveP):
OK, I wrote this in a text editor, so it looked like work (I better leave for the day as well)...

I copy and paste now
----------------------------
@DaveP,

Wow, freaking awesome.

thanks for the response, if we could take everything to this level of discourse,
then that would be much closer to the ideal of the free exchange of ideas.

But, that can't be done for many reasons, one of which you mentioned, most of the time,
we just don't have the time.

People have to work....

to your post,
Its so much easier when debating just to point to things we all know to be true. For
example, is someone remembers something, we can all say, isn't memory imperfect? That's
easier than proving what they said is wrong. Sometimes what they remember is wrong, and
you just can't prove it. Sometimes, maybe their memory isn't wrong, and so of course,
you can't prove its wrong. These types of arguments don't speak to facts, but they aren't meaningless either. Memory isn't perfect, so recollections shouldn't be taken at face value
always....Likewise, it was easier to say of Ben Hermans, doesn't he react when his company is attacked?

Of course...its just a human reaction, it doesn't mean Ben Hermans is a very tolerant
person, it doesn't mean he's not. I just chose something to say, that is common knowledge,
that people, when attacked, often react emotionally. I said it, because one, I don't really
want to debate Ben Hermans on a personal level, and two because it was easy to say.

Ben reacts emotionally at times...he's not a bad person, but it does mean that its hard to
criticize emotional language (my definition of 'trolling') when we all do it at times.

Does it mean we should troll, of course not...no you are correct striving for something better is good. But I hope we are still in agreement, and I think we are, when I say, that
you don't make things better by making them worse. And I submit, that overt censorship
makes things worse. That division makes things worse.


You remember c.s.a.m., do you also remember someone ever saying 'c.s.a.m is just not what it used to be' Things get better, things get worse. But I submit another idea, that people always say things 'are not what they used to be'

Indeed, it won't be long before some people over at AmigaWorld.Net are saying 'AmigaWorld.Net' just isnt what it used to be.'

It was somehow always better in the past. Nostalgia.

This is what bothers me about AmigaWorld.Net, I don't know what they are about, they are just 'another'. They are not amiga.org. They are a place where things will be 'like they used to be'.

As a long time observer, this is nothing but a power play by those who founded amigaworld.net. They offer not much new to the community, while dividing it further.

OK, but I like many sites, may the best site win. Competition is good. but, I cannot make any distinction between a site and its users. A site is its users...the personality of ann.lu is the personality of all of us combined. Ben Hermans, or anyone...attack ann, and you've attacked me. I do condone trolling (allowing people to express their emotions verbally). Why, because I post here, I submit to a site that allows trolling. I will advise anyone its not the best way to make their point. But I will not condemn people for expressing their opinion in words.

I even call the users of Amigaworld.net nancy boys. I regard the community 'as a whole' over there as being preakish, and I don't want to be part of that community. My decision.
Do I really make an effective point by calling them nancy boys? Absolutely not, the biggest problem with that fringe community is their attacks on the mainstream sites, like Amiga.org.
But do I help the image of ann.lu by attacking them back? no...but, being human, I cannot help myself sometimes.

I liked your point about anonymous posting. I would go the other way, though...have a site, where spoofing was solved, by not allowing anyone to post their name at all. But then people would just put their name in the body of the message anyway. But why can't it be about ideas, instead of personalities, on one site? Ann.lu is special because of its free flowing commentary thats goes on forever from the simplest of news items. Its an advantage of this site, and people who don't like anonymity have always been able to go to Amiga.org. That distinguished amiga.org. What distinguishes Amigaworld.net? well so far, I personally don't know...I've heard them give some reasons, but they make no sense to me. Perhaps that is my own limitation.

I have no stake in the success or failure of amigaworld.net.

but I would advise Amiga.org, ann.lu, to weather the storm. ..this is a flash in the pan, excitement over something new. I don't see amigaworld.net being around for the long haul, they have a long way to go, before they have proven they can offer services consistently and better than these two stalwart veterans of the amiga community.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 84 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Christophe Decanini):
I am not an admin on Amigaworld.net btw.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 85 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by hgm on 12-Mar-2003 14:57 GMT
I have a lot of 'delayed' and 'promised' stuff on my desk. Yet I have found a lil space
to fill up another AInc. delayed promise. A decade of promises. Who can beat that record.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 86 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 12-Mar-2003 14:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (DaveP):
I was not thinking about you when I said BAF.
And also I want to point out that my comments did not bring any flames so far, just quiet discussions and exchanges of point of view.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 87 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 12-Mar-2003 15:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Darren Eveland):
>Christian, I think Alan did not bash "ANN" specifically, but ANN "posters",>some of who he referred to as "orcs". He says ANN consists of orcs just like Hermans described this place as gutter! :-(Also the FUDmeister Hermans said on AOrg Terrasoft would charge every MAI TeronBoard with a Linux fee. And only after Alan set him right (?) trough this postingon AOne mailinglist he tried to step back from his bold statement. Quite poor!
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 88 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Mar-2003 15:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (anonymous):
>He says ANN consists of orcs ...

Hm, would you care to elaborate? He was refering to ann orcs which any sane
person would asume he means the idiots who impersonates people, insults people,
missquotes people. I don't think he is unfair when he refer to those people
as orcs. And that has nothing to do with their views. It has to do with their
childish behavior!
Also regarding Terasoft and licencing, I think you have read too many things
into this. Ben's information was that Terasoft wanted x amount of money
for each Teron board sold. Otherwise they didn't want to distribute them
under their name. Alan was simply making it clear that no part of the AmigaOne
price goes into Terasofts pockets.
If you still think it contradicts each other, I suggest you call MAI and ask
them what Terasofts licencing requirements were before they pulled out.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 89 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 12-Mar-2003 16:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Christophe Decanini):
@Christophe Decannini:

>I have nothing against Eyetech or Hyperion effort but I definitely know that
>Ben has been playing the "almost ready" game for more than one year.

If I were to do this in bad faith which I am not, I'm no doubt beaten hands down by bPlan with respect to the Pegasos which has been ready for 4 years now only to get pulled for a major redesign.

I also recall "M Day" being announced at least 1.5 years ago.

No doubt you will come up with all kinds of valid reasons for why this is (I don't think you will be so stupid as to refute this claim which can easily be verified through an internet search) but if you accept that this has happened to bPlan and Genesi, somehow it all becomes sinister when it relates to Hyperion.

Genesi pulled the Pegasos I because they were supposedly unhappy with the quality of the Articia S.

We delayed OS 4.0 quite a few times for rework and redesign because we were not satisfied with certain aspects.

When we're doing this, it is termed a "game", when Genesi does it, there are no doubt valid reasons and we should all accept it.

This is what I call "intellectual dishonesty".
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 90 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 12-Mar-2003 16:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Remco Komduur):
If I recall correctly, AmigaONE was announced before pegasos (June 2000), right after McEwen/Fleecy started blathering, Eyetech/Bplan were listed as the first hardware partners for Amiga inc.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 91 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 12-Mar-2003 16:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (MIKE):
I distinctly recall that the AmigaOne was initially going to be a Duron based machine developed by Dean Brown of Amiga.

Then came the Escena incarnation and finally the Mai incarnation.

I can't say that I'm unhappy with the evolution although one wishes that things would have gone a bit faster.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 92 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Mar-2003 17:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Christian Kemp):
>and all posters as "orcs".

No, SOME posters as orcs, which is far from wrong, btw
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 93 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 12-Mar-2003 18:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
">I have nothing against Eyetech or Hyperion effort but I definitely know that
>Ben has been playing the "almost ready" game for more than one year.
If I were to do this in bad faith which I am not, I'm no doubt beaten hands down by bPlan with respect to the Pegasos which has been ready for 4 years now only to get pulled for a major redesign."

1) If it was not bad faith when you said that it would be out in february 2002 it was a very very bad planning. For a project manager it is scary.
2) I was not speaking about Genesi here. I did express some criticism about Pegasos/Mos and bbrv know about it. If I criticize [insert project here] it is because I would like the products to be good and ready.


"I also recall "M Day" being announced at least 1.5 years ago."

I remember that the first end user version of MorphOS was out for the M day.

"No doubt you will come up with all kinds of valid reasons for why this is (I don't think you will be so stupid as to refute this claim which can easily be verified through an internet search) but if you accept that this has happened to bPlan and Genesi, somehow it all becomes sinister when it relates to Hyperion."

I never blamed Alan about the failure of the first AmigaOne. I did not blame Genesi for being late for the Pegasos because I knew about articia problems.
At the same time (september 2002) you were answering to me here that there was no bug and that Bplan was clueless while they were helping MAI to fix the articia.

"Genesi pulled the Pegasos I because they were supposedly unhappy with the quality of the Articia S."

It makes a lot of sense when you see all the problems they had, all the delays, and the still not available Amigaone etc.

"We delayed OS 4.0 quite a few times for rework and redesign because we were not satisfied with certain aspects."

I think that delaying once or twice is reasonnable but that continuously announcing dates you know you can not commit to is very bad for the whole Amiga community.
You may be closer to a first release (cyberstorm) now but I knew perfectly that all the promises for last year were not possible. You are much more informed than me on that subject. I think that you knew you would never get it out on time.

"When we're doing this, it is termed a "game", when Genesi does it, there are no doubt valid reasons and we should all accept it."

Genesi already delivered so I don't see the point. Maybe it is not the massive end user release that we where looking for but they never said it would be. Their aim is to build a community around their products to find talents they can hire / contract. In exchange they give what we where waiting for years. If AmigaInc would have been smarter they could have been Genesi months/years ago.

"This is what I call "intellectual dishonesty"."

Like many of US I have given everything I could to help Amiga Inc.
I bought all their products (dare I say including merchandising), I did the same with Hyperion games just to support the company who supported the Amiga.

In exchange Amiga Inc screwed up big times (they did not want OS4 fist) and since you got the OS4 project you have been consistant with telling us absurd release dates, being threatening Genesi (stolen code), lying about the "there is no bug in the articia", etc
Genesi had some difficulties too but they did not lie to me so far and they delivered and now they move forward.

I don't like to rant too much but I have been very frustrated about this situation (the top was with the Ben Yo episode).
I wish you good luck with OS4 and Hyperion games even if I feel that you lied to us intentionaly.
I feel sorry for the OS4 developers. They can blame the users for their frustration but they can also blame you to have caused a big part of it.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 94 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 12-Mar-2003 18:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (MIKE):
Yes, but MorphOS started way earlier then OS 4.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 95 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 12-Mar-2003 19:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Troels E):
/me wonders who spreaded these speculations and misconceptions on *AMIGA.ORG*.
They did not originate here...
/me whistles innocently...
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 96 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Mellor on 12-Mar-2003 19:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Anonymous):
Now I'm getting confused. Can someone please explain the 'pecking order' for me: Is a troll worse than an orc, or is it the other way around. Is there an accepted hierarchy with perhaps an FAQ somewhere? Do all derogatory terms have to be based on creatures from Lord of the Rings? Is a 'Gollum' the lowest form of internet poster? ;)
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 97 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 12-Mar-2003 19:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Christophe Decanini):
A name with the initials M.B. rings in my mind... Is it a coincidence? Hell no!
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 98 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 12-Mar-2003 20:07 GMT
@amigworld
Dont like it, dont go there. Its that simple. If you keep ranting/flaming on every occasion you just drag ann down and confirm peoples decisions to look for a flamefree place.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 99 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 12-Mar-2003 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (gz):
>I don't know what the final specs of the XE motherboard will be but unless it >won't be more than with the current amigaone models (133MHz FSB SDRAM) There >won't be much point of fitting in a 1.3ghz g4 because the low speed buses >will hinder the processor by creating bottlenecks. The same goes for the >pegasos and pegasos2.

Why restrict the options for other users? SDRAM 133Mhz FSB limitations didn't stop MSI from releasing a KT133A(e.g. K7T-Turbo2) based motherboard for AMD Athlon XP market. I recall, the MSI K7T-Turbo2-R (KT133A) i.e. supports up to Athlons XP 2600+.

If one user requires maximum processor speed within PPC CPU range and current motherboard technology, why not give it? It’s the purchaser’s decision to spend his/her money.

It’s may not be as fast compared to the pure QDR/DDR systems but the potential is there for applications that make best use for this particular setup.
Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 100 of 146ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 12-Mar-2003 22:15 GMT
Some "A*N ORCs" examples;
Refer to http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1047231236&category=web&start=1&122

I don’t know why people has linked Terrasoft and Eyetech’s fortunes... The news was about Terrasoft.
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