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[News] Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss!ANN.lu
Posted on 15-Mar-2003 16:43 GMT by MIB155 comments
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8 Days ahead of schedule! The first ever Q&A With Fleecy Moss is now available over at AmigaWorld.net
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 101 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Man with the yellow cat on 16-Mar-2003 23:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Anonymous):
There's nothing wrong with MOS.. its just these creepy Zealots and anonymous posters.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 102 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 16-Mar-2003 23:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Atheist2):
Ooops!

MuLTiViEW (comment 65) was talking about Ibrowse being 500K.

Another HUGE problem with IE is. It's now, and has beeen for a long time, "integrated" into the os. Also, I hate that it can't be turned "off" (just like me ;) ).

At least that is what I was told by my cable ISP.

AmigaOne! AOS4.0 < 50 megs; directx8.1, 65 megs!
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 103 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 17-Mar-2003 00:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Atheist2):
@Atheist

> MOS has the great body ($299), but Moss has the soul (priceless).
> The reason I chose Moss over MOS is because it is based on the original source code, the "soul".
> I *am* the spellbound follower of that beauty which I understand, and am not concerned about others' incomprehension of what they see.

How do I put this gently.. For being an Atheist you sound a amigan religious fanatic!!! ;)
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 104 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 17-Mar-2003 00:29 GMT
well, I was sick this weekend, cough, cough, so look I finally get to post, uhmmm commment 100 something....like anyone's going to read this....

its the same old drill, it's well known, at least to me, that when the liar tells some more lies, that a certain segment of this community gets excited and feels assured.

whatever.

And yes, it is OK to call them a liar. Yes, it is OK not to treat them with respect. You see, eventually, after someone has lied repeatedly, there comes a point when you withdraw respect, because they don't deserve it anymore.

All the Amiga apologists haven't explained why we should treat a group that has repeatedly lied to us with respect, and assume they are telling the truth now. They haven't apologized, or even tried to explain the lies.

Here is my hard hitting question, why did two years ago, Amiga, Inc. state that AOS4 was 'on time and rocking?'
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 105 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 17-Mar-2003 00:30 GMT
@MuLTiViEW

> Coz I am starting to think your just another "Ed Helper" You know who that
> is right? {snip} who designed the PC JR (which nearly bankrupted IBM at
> the time) and then came on over to Amiga.. fired all the best people...
> and released the unfinished AAA as AGA... hell.. do I have to tell this
> same sad story again?

You have it wrong! Look here. http://amiga.emugaming.com/people.html

1.. When you say 'Dr Helper' I assume you are refering to Dr Ed Hepler. Hepler was involved in designing the Hombre chipset.

2.. Bill Snydes was responsible for the PC Jr and as a manager for C= messed around with Engineering so that Amiga developments could not be finished. He was responsible for the A600.

3.. I don't disagree with your Fleecy comments. Fleecy has a lot to answer for.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 106 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 17-Mar-2003 00:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (MarkTime):
>All the Amiga apologists haven't explained why we should treat a group that has repeatedly lied to us with respect, and assume they are telling the truth now. They haven't apologized, or even tried to explain the lies.

It's not up to them to "prove" anything to be realistic. And there's nothing to apologize for. If they make something, they make something....and they may make money from it by us maybe buying it. If not...well hey, we'll buy the next best thing (MOS!;)But at the end of the day, we're all here for the soap opera...it's our East Enders! ;)


>Here is my hard hitting question, why did two years ago, Amiga, Inc. state that AOS4 was 'on time and rocking?'

LOL I guess that's why Hyperion is doing it now. And you know their reasons for the delay.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 107 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by redfox on 17-Mar-2003 01:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (cheesegrate):
cheesegrate mused ...

>>we have one of the best calculators ever created on a software platform

>LOL LOL LOL The AMIGA LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P

LOL ... good one, cheesegrate
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 108 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 17-Mar-2003 02:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (KenH):
>> All the Amiga apologists haven't explained why we should treat a group that has repeatedly lied to us with respect, and assume they are telling the truth now. They haven't apologized, or even tried to explain the lies.


Bad Business practices. I still don't understand why there are not more people in the USA reporting this kind of activity to the Better Business Bureau, and other business & consumer organizations. It's very puzzling.

> It's not up to them to "prove" anything to be realistic. And there's
> nothing to apologize for. If they make something, they make something....
> and they may make money from it by us maybe buying it. If not...well hey,
> we'll buy the next best thing (MOS!;)But at the end of the day, we're all
> here for the soap opera...it's our East Enders! ;)

You might think this is all a big joke but it isn't. Some of us take this market seriously. Now we have a company that doesn't see any problem with taking money from people for a non-existant club, and offers of $50 or $100 off coupon for a non-existing product.

In every other market, this would be considered a scam. People who lack good judgement skills should be protected from scams, not laughed at! :(

In a REAL community, the strong protect the weak. In this case, no one is looking out for the weak.

>> Here is my hard hitting question, why did two years ago, Amiga, Inc. state that AOS4 was 'on time and rocking?'

Exactly.

> LOL I guess that's why Hyperion is doing it now. And you know their reasons for the delay.

I don't know the reasons for the delay, please fill me in.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 109 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by MuLTiViEW on 17-Mar-2003 03:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Darth_X):
AH Crap!

Hehe..... actually... I remember a document on the net once that listed "Ed Helper" as the guy who did the pc Jr. At the time I thought it was a name like "John Doe" where they don't list the guy's real name.. but use a fake name. (The names have been changed to protect the guilty) But hey.. if you say there is an Ed HePler out there .........

.....ooops!


Heheh.......... whooooooooopsi


So I guess I meant: Bill Snydes So Fleecy is another Bill Snydes then... or something.

Has anyone checked Fleecy's pictures to see if there are three little 6's in a.... oh nevermind. Forget it. Nothing. ;)
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 110 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 17-Mar-2003 05:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (DaveP):
@DaveP

>> I know for a fact that there are much better questions fleece should be looking to answer rather than the 10 on that site.

> That is purely a matter of perspective ( motive ). Go and ask them on the
site.

You don't think there are More Important questions? And you are satisfied with the answers?

Anyways, I don't think I should have to ASK AmigaInc questions.. they should be providing the solutions or *answers* themselves! ;)
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 111 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Alex Klauke on 17-Mar-2003 05:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Darth_X):
It surely could be expected that people would pick out only some bits of the
answers to make their claims. When it comes to the IE 'issues', well
herewegoagain asked specifically about M$ products and Fleecy gave a generic
answer. BIG deal, not. If the question would have been about Opera, Mozilla,
Real, whatever the answer most probably would look the same.

So what part of "Support development of applications that round the appeal of
the platform - browser, email client, word processor" don't you understand?
Or "we have been able to locate [developers] still developing for the AmigaOS
and with one or two exceptions, they are very receptive to what we have been
able to tell them."

And yes, from my POV the 'nothing new' within the answers is a good sign,
fe. AmigaDE/AACE still to be included with OS 4.2. Granted, things are moving
slowly, but they are moving..

Now I'm waiting for the 10 questions a week to BB(RV) on Morphos-News.de ;-)

Ciao, Alex
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 112 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 17-Mar-2003 06:05 GMT
>Now I'm waiting for the 10 questions a week to BB(RV) on Morphos-News.de ;-)


You don't have to wait, email them and you'll get your answers.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 113 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Alex Klauke on 17-Mar-2003 06:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Don Cox):
> (Personally, I though the Tao stuff, which is neat technology in its own
> right, was a good idea 3 years ago. I changed my mind: it isn't going to work.

I like the idea yet. And I agree with you to the extent that intent would not
work as the sole foundation of a new OS. So yes, I changed my mind too that
it is not the right way to exchange AmigaOS/Exec w/ intent, but for it being
an addition to the platform, just like ARexx was (is).

> Amiga technology, to be successful, has to be a combination of cross-platform
> standards like the C language, and native Amiga development, as is being done
> by the IBrowse and Hyperion teams. Licensing other people's stuff or porting
> from Linux is no good.

Fully agree here. The platform needs a solid technical base and a good set of
standard tools and applications. This is what we (will) get through the
subsequent releases of OS4 and developers porting to (from OS3.x/68k) and
enhancing on by utilizing the additional features Hyperion provides with it.
But, to be successful, that is _grow_, AmigaOS needs to distinguish itself
from other OS's. It's library model, Datatypes and ARexx are those parts of
the past and present, AmigaDE could be (the) one of and for the future. After
all i(nten)t does nothing more than to provide "cross-platform standards like
the C language" (and C++, Eiffel, Java..) but also is 'cross-platform' by
definition. In a very similar way ReXX was to be a cross-platform scripting
standard once.

Porting from Linux and licensing "other people's stuff" can only work if it
is adapted to the Amiga programming model to make the apps "Amiga native".
Things like KHTML may be used as starting points rather than start developement
from scratch, but they can (have to) be enhanced to be truly Amiga-ish.
Straight porting w/o using any of the features of AmigaOS would not be a good
thing. But it will be some time until the Amiga platform can yet again be the
starting point for development of new kinds of applications. ('stand on its own
feet' that is).

> But this is much clearer now than it was 4 years ago.)

Everything gets clearer as time goes by. Except London fog.. ;-)

Ciao, Alex
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 114 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 17-Mar-2003 08:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Alex Klauke):
>> (Personally, I though the Tao stuff, which is neat technology in its own
>> right, was a good idea 3 years ago. I changed my mind: it isn't going to
>> work.

> I like the idea yet. And I agree with you to the extent that intent would
> not work as the sole foundation of a new OS. So yes, I changed my mind
> too that it is not the right way to exchange AmigaOS/Exec w/ intent, but
> for it being an addition to the platform, just like ARexx was (is).

Check some of this out (if you haven't)
http://withintent.biz/index2.php?Cat=1
http://tao-group.com/index2.php?cat=2
http://tao-group.com/index2.php?cat=7

Hey.. TAO intent is at CeBIT!

Amiga version of Rexx? (note Amiga is mentioned)
http://regina-rexx.sourceforge.net/


>> Amiga technology, to be successful, has to be a combination of
>> cross-platform standards like the C language, and native
>> Amiga development, as is being done by the IBrowse and Hyperion teams.
>> Licensing other people's stuff or porting from Linux is no good.

> Fully agree here. The platform needs a solid technical base and a
> good set of standard tools and applications. This is what we (will)
> get through the subsequent releases of OS4 and developers porting to
> (from OS3.x/68k) and enhancing on by utilizing the additional features
> Hyperion provides with it.

I also agree. These are the kinds of comments that the CTO should be talking about right now, there should be a focus on development. Sadly, I don't see this. This is where I am disapointed with AmigaInc.


> But, to be successful, that is _grow_, AmigaOS needs to distinguish
> itself from other OS's. It's library model, Datatypes and ARexx are
> those parts of the past and present, AmigaDE could be (the) one of
> and for the future. After all i(nten)t does nothing more than to
> provide "cross-platform standards like the C language" (and C++, Eiffel,
> Java..) but also is 'cross-platform' by definition. In a very similar
> way ReXX was to be a cross-platform scripting standard once.

Intent in itself is a good idea, there are a few applications that run on intent nicely.. its the bigger apps (like high end video games) that need better - faster - performance, by being coded directly to the OS, instead of something like intent.

> Porting from Linux and licensing "other people's stuff" can only work
> if it is adapted to the Amiga programming model to make the apps "Amiga
> native". Things like KHTML may be used as starting points rather than
> start developement from scratch, but they can (have to) be enhanced
> to be truly Amiga-ish. Straight porting w/o using any of the features
> of AmigaOS would not be a good thing. But it will be some time until
> the Amiga platform can yet again be the starting point for development
> of new kinds of applications. ('stand on its own feet' that is).

Yes.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 115 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 17-Mar-2003 09:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (MuLTiViEW):
...i dont think that browsers, mediaq players or email programs should be part of the OS. i dont think they should be classed as part of the OS either.

thats the M$ way of doing things - and it sucks.

the OS shoudl be CAPABLE of handling such data - but then you have other programs...eg by 3rd parties , that actually do the real work.

this not only leads to variety and choice, but also to freedoms and possible profits for anyone interested in the platform.


i *DO * believe that such programs should be available from the start, as soon as you install the OS. And thankfully they will be....

yam 2.5
ibrowse 2.3
AMP 2.4
Softcinema/frogger etc

Alan
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 116 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 17-Mar-2003 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (alan buxey):
They should be on the same CD media, what do most people want to do with
a home computer? Connect to the net and go. Forcing them to download it seperately
( without an ftp client anyone? ) on something which does not have high street
visibility for its software like AmigaOS is a recipie for disaster.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 117 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 17-Mar-2003 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (DaveP):
I'd like pictures of the programming team, AInc. crew, any Eyetechers wanting to be remembered, and detailed photographs of the motherboard with CLEAR explanations of all jumper settings, and a list of the chips and hz. All the manuals on the disc. It would be cool if it came with the "Deathbed Vigil" DVD.

Pictures of the original programmers and engineers and Jay Miner! Now that would be something. :))

AmigaOne! The computer with a strong pedigree!!!
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 118 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 17-Mar-2003 12:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (samface):
This isn't meant for DaveP or Samface, but anyone who's trying to figure out why I'm against this form of "interviewing".

I'd rather not ask my questions on any web site, not even on Amiga.org for where I volunteer my spare time. I would rather ask my questions in a candid manor waiting for a "shock response" type answer. Many good interviews are based on such tactics. Essentially I would set the topics for which would be of the most interest to the community, he (fleecy) could veto any topics for which he didn't want to go into. With those topics, ask a few normal questions and based on the responses I would receive ask a couple questions that might stump him. An interview like that is not at all possible when filtering questions through a web site that can be picked through. It's like shooting monkeys in a barrel. The part that I really don't understand, all but two of the questions have been previously answered already, why waste those 8 questions on 8 answers that are already public information? The person doing the candid interviewing doesn't have to be me, as a matter of fact I would prefer not to do an interview with fleecy since most people think I'm either for or against Amiga Inc rather than doing everything I can to take a neutral stance to all this.

Another idea that would make this "interview" a lot better is to interview fleecy in the same way you would see the Charlie Rhodes show. Five elected members of the community to represent all possible sides and a single interviewer directing the whole meeting of the minds. That would probably be even better than my own approach through IRC.

In short I could go along with my questions and post them on the 1 web site to a public forum hoping for the slim chance of the more difficult questions being answered, or I could state the reason why I'm against this form of "interviewing". The latest batch of questions have also been answered prior (as of 12:23pm 2003-03-17 Amigaworld.net timezone). Perhaps I should go in there and start answering the ones that have already been asked and respond to them? Then again, maybe I don't have enough time to do just that.

I'm sure you already know my decision. Complaining I might be, but at least I have a valid motive behind my complaint.

GWBush steps up to the podium to give his address of the union and opens with, "Member of the press". That is not right.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 119 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 17-Mar-2003 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Darth_X):
They say it's not an exact science. I'm sure the MOS developers would agree with that too.

>I don't know the reasons for the delay, please fill me in.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 120 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by AmigaOne XE on 17-Mar-2003 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Alex Klauke):
>>Amiga technology, to be successful, has to be a combination of
>>cross-platform standards like the C language, and native Amiga
>>development, as is being done by the IBrowse and Hyperion teams.
>>Licensing other people's stuff or porting from Linux is no good.

>Fully agree here.

I don't understand. That's exactly what Amiga is going to do. You're complaining because Amiga is not taking the direction you want while they actually are. I think you people spent so much time just complaining for the sake of it that you stopped understanding the long term plans. They're basing that on OS4 and DE. I see very short sighted people here.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 121 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 17-Mar-2003 14:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Hooligan/DCS):
>> Now I'm waiting for the 10 questions a week to BB(RV) on
>> Morphos-News.de ;-)

> You don't have to wait, email them and you'll get your answers.

What leads you to assume that if you actually made your questions to Fleecy in a civilized way he wouldn't answer!? I know he does, but that's because I had sent him some over the time...

Now you seems to know that Bill Buck answers them, but don't actually want to know if Fleecy does or not! I call it bad faith
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 122 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 17-Mar-2003 14:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Amiga user (not blind)):
I don't know what is worst, to be a blind fallower or a blind nay sayers... Amigans fighting amigans because they share diferent thoughts, shame on you...
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 123 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 17-Mar-2003 16:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (AmigaOne XE):
"I don't understand. That's exactly what Amiga is going to do. You're complaining because Amiga is not taking the direction you want while they actually are. I think you people spent so much time just complaining for the sake of it that you stopped understanding the long term plans. They're basing that on OS4 and DE. I see very short sighted people here."

The point is that Tao's Elate/Intent OS is _not_ Amiga technology but licensed from another company, and apart from the clever VP language has no obvious good features. So why contaminate AmigaOS with it? (A player running as a program, like a Quicktime player or Rebol, is fine.)
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 124 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 17-Mar-2003 16:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (strobe):
>Maybe to YOU! It was clear to me from the very beginning that this DE
>crap had absolutely nothing to do with the Amiga.

Yeah, I think most of us felt the same when we first read about DE, but we just shrugged, thought to ourselves "Well, I'm sure they must know what they're doing" and let them get on with it.

Still, Planet Zed is good though! And that crossword game, too (dont remember what its called...) And of course the fantastic calculator.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 125 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 17-Mar-2003 18:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Darth_X):
@DarthX

I think you did a better job of explaining.

But for those still reading this thread....here are the hard hitting questions:

1) Did they not say directly that OS4 was nearly complete in order to sell $100
party packs, when they new full well it was not even under active development at that time?

2) Did they not sell $50 coupons with free t-shirt offer, and then fail to deliver both the 50 dollar off coupons and the t-shirt? Did they not update us, yet again, with a real soon now on the t-shirts earlier this year, only not to deliver them yet again?

3) What should imporance should we place on any answer to any of the other questions? If 'on time and rockin' means 'not under development at all'....what do any of their other answers mean? Isn't it just more fantasy/role playing for the Amiga cult?

The answers don't mean a thing. Nothing. Unfortunately, in the case of Amiga, Inc., even signed contracts don't mean a lot. The only thing of importance, is what they have released...and so far OS4 is not released. Fleecy got that right, without OS4 released, they haven't done a thing.

Amiga, Inc's behaviour is absolutely disgusting....if we can't criticize them, then we can't criticize any company, cause rarely does behaviour get worse than this.

Darth, the better business bureau doesn't quite have the function you are thinking of in the united states...yes people can report complaints to them, but since people almost never check those complaints, before they make a purchasing decision, the BBB only does so much good.

It would be up to the state attorney general's office to hold Amiga, Inc. to task for violations of law....actually it doesn't have to be washington state, any state that Amiga, Inc. did business in.

It's up to the citizens to complain...unfortunately, a lot of people don't bother for 50 dollars, so....Amiga gets away with it.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 126 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 17-Mar-2003 18:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (MarkTime):
> It would be up to the state attorney general's office to hold Amiga, Inc. to
> task for violations of law....actually it doesn't have to be washington state, > any state that Amiga, Inc. did business in.

Actually, it's federal issue with the FTC having the lead for enforcement. If the payment was shipped by USPS, then they also become envolved since it is a federal offense to use USPS for scams, besides the violations of FTC regulations of mail order laws.

> It's up to the citizens to complain...unfortunately, a lot of people don't
> bother for 50 dollars, so....Amiga gets away with it.

This is a truism.

Dammy
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 127 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 17-Mar-2003 18:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (MarkTime):
On this point you would be dead right but for the fact that they admit they made mistakes of judgement in the past. And indeed they may make more in the future. But later or erm later, the coupon holders will be able to redeem their value should they still want to.


>3) What should imporance should we place on any answer to any of the other questions? If 'on time and rockin' means 'not under development at all'....what do any of their other answers mean? Isn't it just more fantasy/role playing for the Amiga cult?
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 128 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 17-Mar-2003 19:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (KenH):
"On this point you would be dead right but for the fact that they admit they made mistakes of judgement in the past. And indeed they may make more in the future."

KenH, you're a very forgiving chap, and very trusting; apologies, excuses and admissions mean absolutely nothing, especially in the hard-nosed world of business today. If you think they repair the damage of broken promises, or add any weight to new promises, you're cruising for a bruising, brother.

"But later or erm later, the coupon holders will be able to redeem their value should they still want to."

Really? What makes you think that later will be any better than today? It certainly will be even less acceptable.

Fleecy : We did make mistakes. I'm sorry. Now, any questions?
T-shirt-guy : Can I have my US$50 back, please?
Fleecy : Any questions at all?
SDK-guy : Yeah, what about my $100?
Fleecy : What, no questions? None at all? I'm sure some of you must have something to ask...

Or is it not like that at all? How should I see it?

Gregg
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 129 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Iggy Drougge on 17-Mar-2003 20:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Darth_X):
>Amiga version of Rexx? (note Amiga is mentioned)
>http://regina-rexx.sourceforge.net/

Yes, but plain REXX isn't ARexx. You need it to act as the RexxMast, communicate with ARexx ports and all that, not just (like Regina) interpret a REXX script and be done with it. Ask the AROS chaps about the problems with Regina serving as an ARexx replacement, they should know.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 130 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 17-Mar-2003 20:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Gregg):
@Gregg

Very good point of view! ;)
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 131 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Amiga user (not blind) on 17-Mar-2003 21:22 GMT
Not matter what Amiga inc do they will always be the army of Amiga inc defending ready to protect Ainc at all costs.

Just look back at the Elbox issue and see how many Amiga users was going to war to cover up and protect Elbox at all costs when what they was doing was highly illegal and bad, if Elbox was not a Amiga company the defenders would have torn them apart.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 132 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Amiga user (not blind) on 17-Mar-2003 21:22 GMT
Not matter what Amiga inc do there will always be the army of Amiga inc defending ready to protect Ainc at all costs.

Just look back at the Elbox issue and see how many Amiga users was going to war to cover up and protect Elbox at all costs when what they was doing was highly illegal and bad, if Elbox was not a Amiga company the defenders would have torn them apart.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 133 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 17-Mar-2003 22:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Gregg):
It's nothing to do with forgiveness and everything to do with the hold the community has over AI. Sure we're not a big bunch anymore, but we are influential in the startup of a company. If I had the choice between a few thousand loyal supporters and a few thousand rabid, virus posting, bad mouthing vengence hunters, I know which I'd choose for a measely $150 each.

>KenH, you're a very forgiving chap, and very trusting; apologies, excuses and admissions mean absolutely nothing, especially in the hard-nosed world of business today. If you think they repair the damage of broken promises, or add any weight to new promises, you're cruising for a bruising, brother.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 134 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by AmigaOne XE on 18-Mar-2003 00:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Don Cox):
>The point is that Tao's Elate/Intent OS is _not_ Amiga technology but
>licensed from another company, and apart from the clever VP language has
>no obvious good features. So why contaminate AmigaOS with it?

Ok, now you're talking like a religious biggot. You sadden me, Don, I used to have a great respect for your words
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 135 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 18-Mar-2003 04:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (AmigaOne XE):
So what is the killer feature of DE that any Amiga related OS needs? I rather see wineX ported...

Dammy
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 136 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by CodeSmith on 18-Mar-2003 07:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (dammy):
> So what is the killer feature of DE that any Amiga related OS needs? I rather see wineX ported...
>
> Dammy

Sorry, not gonna happen. WineX is an API translation layer, which means to run Windows programs you still need an x86 CPU (or a fast emulator, which we don't yet have). Take a look at Mac sites, maybe they have something. Unfortunately, WineX is not it.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 137 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 18-Mar-2003 08:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Amiga user (not blind)):
Yes, kind of like the MorphOS army.

However, I really don't think generalizing like this will cut it. There are several types in both camps in this pathetic flamewar. Some people defend what they believe in while some people oppose whatever stands in the way of what they believe in. I would categorize myself as the latter as I believe there is no such thing as a true hero and savior of the Amiga. No side of this war is perfect and both sides are making fatal mistakes all the time. However, there are differences in the type of mistakes made. One side makes premature announcements and fail to deliver within the estimated timeframes, the other is parasiticly marketing their products on someone else' brand and threatens to publicly hang out personal details about people opposing them, etc.

I'm not saying one side never make mistakes, just that one side's mistakes seems worse than the other. Whatever side that might be is a matter of personal taste. Personally I prefer a professional business approach and a viable future plan rather than the first thing available.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 138 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by MuLTiViEW on 18-Mar-2003 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (MarkTime):
> Amiga, Inc's behaviour is absolutely disgusting....if we can't criticize
> them, then we can't criticize any company, cause rarely does behaviour get
> worse than this.

Mark..... heh.... BLUE BYTE my man! BLUE BYTE iZ wORsE! Trust me.

Settlers IV has so many bugs that I personally recommend getting a can of "Raid" bug spray when purchasing it. For some reason German coders or programmers just don't seem to want to fix their software once they release it.
The patches that have come out have either simply not addressed issues which people who play the Settlers series have complained about, or they have fixed things that were "not broken".
Talking to Blue Byte OR their new owners UBISOFT, is like trying to talk to someone on the moon without a radio.

Weird thing is.... there's a lot of old Amigans involved with the Settler's series still.. It would be wonderful if the dang A1 (with OS) would finnaly come out and then maybe UBI would make jump back in ...... where they started. On an Amiga.

I've nothing against Germans, but lately, I've noticed a trend amoungst German companies.. No PR whatsoever. No support for products. Getting them to fix a problem with their hardware/software is a nightmare.. and ill-communication.

Weird.. in WW2, the German's are famous for thir "Blitzkrieg" or Lightening warfare. Nowadays it seems German companies are famous for their ability to move slower than a 2400 baud modem. Hmmmm maybe they never did upgrade after all....

Heheh..
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 139 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by MuLTiViEW on 18-Mar-2003 09:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Gregg):
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yup! That sounds like Fleecy's (and AInc's) attitude to me.

Sooner or later they'll do the.. "Next window please" trick and everyone will be going around in circles...
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 140 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 18-Mar-2003 09:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (dammy):
Killer feature? Well, begin with trying to explain what you think virtual processor technology means to the developer as well as the user.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 141 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Amiga user (not blind) on 18-Mar-2003 10:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (samface):
I agree with what you are saying, people are obsessed with Amiga inc and Genesi to much, if Amiga inc or Genesi do something bad then i expect people to say negative stuff not lets all cover up for them and praise them.

Amiga inc and Genesi defenders really need to get out more.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 142 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 18-Mar-2003 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Amiga user (not blind)):
> Not matter what Amiga inc do they will always be the army of Amiga inc
> defending ready to protect Ainc at all costs.

> Just look back at the Elbox issue and see how many Amiga users was going
> to war to cover up and protect Elbox at all costs when what they was doing
> was highly illegal and bad, if Elbox was not a Amiga company the defenders
> would have torn them apart.

Check your logic first before posting comments, one thing doesn't necesserly imply other...
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 143 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 18-Mar-2003 14:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (samface):
In Reply to Comment 135:
> Killer feature? Well, begin with trying to explain what you think virtual
> processor technology means to the developer as well as the user.

I really don't give a rat's ass what it means to the developer. The Devs are not my concern nor what language they program in. Nor do I care about virtual processor hype either. Take a look at Zaurus, it will only run Intent 1.1 but all the DE folks are writing for Intent 1.3. So much for the dev's mantra of "write once, run anywhere."

Again, what killer apps are there for DE that I can not find anywhere else, especially for a desktops?

Dammy
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 144 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 18-Mar-2003 16:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Iggy Drougge):
"Yes, but plain REXX isn't ARexx. You need it to act as the RexxMast, communicate with ARexx ports and all that, not just (like Regina) interpret a REXX script and be done with it. Ask the AROS chaps about the problems with Regina serving as an ARexx replacement, they should know."

There's a lot of technical information in the original ARexx manual, which I think would be enough for somebody to write a replacement. There is already some glue code for making Python act like ARexx (but I haven't tested it yet).
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 145 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 18-Mar-2003 16:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (AmigaOne XE):
The reason I say "contaminate" is that Intent appears to be inferior to AmigaOS in every way.

Also I remember how much trouble the BCPL in Tripos caused.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 146 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 18-Mar-2003 16:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (MuLTiViEW):
"I've nothing against Germans, but lately, I've noticed a trend amoungst German companies.. No PR whatsoever. No support for products. Getting them to fix a problem with their hardware/software is a nightmare.. and ill-communication."

Macrosystems (Draco and VLab Motion) were like that in the 90s.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 147 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 18-Mar-2003 16:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (samface):
"Killer feature? Well, begin with trying to explain what you think virtual processor technology means to the developer as well as the user."

The VP language technology is clever and very useful for coding for gadgets. I doubt if it is worth while on the desktop where are in practice only two kinds of CPU.

It's the Intent/Elate OS that appears to have little to offer.

Compiling OS4 for VP might be useful (you would also have to port those 5000 lines of PPC assembler). A current PDA should be able to run AmigaOS, which is originally designed for screens of 320x200 pixels.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 148 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 18-Mar-2003 17:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (dammy):
Hey Dammy,

> Take a look at Zaurus, it will only run Intent 1.1 but all the DE folks are writing for Intent 1.3. So much for the dev's mantra of "write once, run anywhere."

You mean to say that these are not compatible?
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 149 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by spppltt on 18-Mar-2003 17:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (MuLTiViEW):
Well, as you may know, Germany, along with a couple other countries, are part of OLD COMPUTING. You see, the center has moved to the East and NEW COMPUTING will come from such freedom-loving nations as the splendiferous Bulgaria and the magrific Czechoslovakia.
Ten Answers with Fleecy Moss! : Comment 150 of 155ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 18-Mar-2003 18:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (AmigaOne XE):
@AmigaONE XE

> I don't understand. That's exactly what Amiga is going to do. You're complaining because Amiga is not taking the direction you want while they actually are. I think you people spent so much time just complaining for the sake of it that you stopped understanding the long term plans. They're basing that on OS4 and DE. I see very short sighted people here.

No, you see people sick of this current regime running AmigaInc. You see people sick of the tricks and gimmicks and fake clubs.
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