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[Rant] Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc.ANN.lu
Posted on 18-Mar-2003 15:16 GMT by Seehund83 comments
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I sent Amiga, Inc. and Fleecy Moss an open letter in response to his statements on AmigaWorld.net and in Total Amiga Magazine about the hardware market restrictions imposed on AmigaOS. You can read it here.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 1 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by derf on 18-Mar-2003 14:20 GMT
and here we go again...
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 2 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (derf):
Give it a rest ffs. Winge moan. Twats
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 3 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by MIB on 18-Mar-2003 14:34 GMT
*GROAN* not again.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 4 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 14:44 GMT
Kudos to the guy for not totally losing his temper when a company labels him and everyone agreeing with him "pirates" in public! I'm not entirely sure I'd have handled it as well, were I in his shoes.

"Anti-piracy" has clearly never been the issue here, and seeing AmigaInc desperately playing the "piracy card" AGAIN and AGAIN in hope of gaining sympathies is really getting tiresome. Does anyone still believe that this company gives a fark about what happens with amigaOS?
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 5 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 18-Mar-2003 15:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
Agree. I support that petition (or rather: I did (a long time ago) when I cared about OS4, now I just don't care anymore). I am not a Pirate and will not be labelled as one. The petition has never been about piracy. This is only a cheap&easy way for them to discard the whole issue instead of debating it. The lack of arguments is so obvious when they constantly descends into (anti)piracy discussions instead of sticking to the core issues of the petition.

Keep it up, Seehund (if you still care)!
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 6 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 15:28 GMT
"It's about not making AmigaOS, its commercial viability, its available hardware base, its available hardware vendor options and its users solely dependent on an artificially constructed "Amiga hardware market", which is a restricted subset of the "normal" third party hardware market as there will be no more Amigas."


Its clear your hidden agenda isn't to *free* amiga OS but to run it on your Mac hardware instead because you don't want to put your hand in your pocket and buy an AmigaOne , or Classic PPC board.

Get over it!!
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 7 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 18-Mar-2003 15:30 GMT
So if Amiga Inc and Hyperion removed the 'OS4 enabler' dongle, does that
mean OS4 will run on any hardware ? isnt there a HAL or something needed too ?
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 8 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 15:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Why is having OS4 running on Macs a bad thing? LinuxPPC market exists primarily through macs, why cant AmigaOS4? Would you prefer LESS people using AmigaOS *purely* on the basis they want to run the OS on a PPC machine, but they don't want to buy another PPC machine when they already own one?
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 9 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 18-Mar-2003 15:45 GMT
A coupld of questions.

If OS4 was available for other hardware platforms what platform would you personally buy it for?

Also - do you envisage this to mean that we could buy PPC hardware from several vendors other than just the one (as well as all of the existing PPC boards for Classic Amigas)? Or... do you mean that you would like to see OS4 available for x86 and Mac as well?

---
Sam
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 10 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 18-Mar-2003 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
"Its clear your hidden agenda isn't to *free* amiga OS but to run it on your Mac hardware instead because you don't want to put your hand in your pocket and buy an AmigaOne , or Classic PPC board."

By golly, you're right!

And if there's any doubt about his illegal and immoral intentions, he's quite happy to pirate their Web pages too instead of writing his own damn' Executive Updates!

It's all so clear now...

</idiot>

Just a thought on the disappearing Web pages that naughty Seehund has cached : Remember, only the winners get to re-write history...

Gregg
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 11 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 18-Mar-2003 15:56 GMT
IMHO as much as possible needs to be done to stop piracy (not stop you, but stop the pirates) especially to get those crucial early sales going.

If they were to implement what you consider to be unjust controls on OS4.5 or 5.0 then you might have a better argument...
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 12 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 18-Mar-2003 16:02 GMT
Yawn.............
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 13 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 18-Mar-2003 16:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
I would imagine that technically OS4 could have a version "certified" to work on Apple hardware (and therefore they would *support* it...)...

But on the other hand - I think Apple might not like it, which is quite likely to be a major answer.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 14 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 18-Mar-2003 16:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (catohagen):
> does that mean OS4 will run on any hardware ?

http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk/faq.html#3
http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk/faq.html#4
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 15 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 18-Mar-2003 16:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Ben):
> IMHO as much as possible needs to be done to stop piracy (not stop you, but stop
> the pirates) especially to get those crucial early sales going.

The product to be sold is AmigaOS, and I feel that making sales of that dependent on the simultaneous sales of a particular motherboard, and only when that motherboard is sold via a particular distributor, is a surefire way to *prevent* sales of AmigaOS. In a dream world the presented plan would stop pirate copies from running on e.g. "normal" Terons sold by anyone (but it won't), i.e. 0% piracy, but at the same time it means 0% sales of AmigaOS for that hardware base/market. Paying users are stopped, not pirates. A USB dongle or whatever (even software based protection) delivered with separately sold copies would be just as efficient.

This is not about piracy. It's about regulation of an unnecessary and artificially created "Amiga hardware market".
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 16 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 18-Mar-2003 16:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Seehund):
Seehund, if you could buy an off the shelf version that only supported
AmigaONE, BlizzardPPC and CyberstormPPC and there were no "dongle/license restrictions"
would you actually buy it?
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 17 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 18-Mar-2003 16:22 GMT
Dell circulate booklets with lots of attractive computers at attractive bundled prices.

It's a shame to have to pass up on these deals and have compromise hardware if there is no good reason.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 18 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 18-Mar-2003 16:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Ben):
> If they were to implement what you consider to be unjust controls on OS4.5 or
> 5.0 then you might have a better argument...

"As a result, AmigaOS4 and all future versions ..."

http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk/041202-mcewen-cache.html

But why would it be more OK to limit sales of AmigaOS 4 than 4.5, 5 or whatever? (Not to mention that "AmigaOS 5" is, as far as we know, nothing more than a paper concept today)
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 19 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Tronman on 18-Mar-2003 16:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (DaveP):
I would in fact buy a copy if itwould run on my Cyberstorm card. I mean, lets say I still have a 4000, with a Mediator PCI card, and a Cyberstorm card. If so, I'd love to be able to use OS 4 on it! Its obvious that there's no communication between Elbox and Amiga (there never was when I worked at Amiga anyway) so for what ever reasons it doesn't look likely right now that my investment in such hardware would pay off vis a vis OS 4.0. My best hope there would be for MorphOS to run on it, but I am frankly unaware of any plans to make that happen either. (The above doesn't mean that either company isn't talking to Elbox or vice versa, it just means that I've seen no public word about it).

So yes, I would buy a 4.0 copy if it would run on the Cyberstorm card. But I guess that makes me some sort of pirate..

AAArrrrgh Matey!
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 20 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 16:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
>LinuxPPC market exists primarily through macs

pha! RS6000, Powerstack etc. But Mac-Userers give a sh.t about Linux on their HW. Sure, it runs on Macs, mostly, but because it's the only (unique) ppc machine available in volumes. Think this will change soon, damn...Linux PPC has to be better supported...this might get better in the future ;) mac users are no geeks!
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 21 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 16:37 GMT
This is patently stupid.

Those that object to this measure have their own ulterior motives and none of them provide a convincing argument why anti-piracy provisions should be eliminated:

1. A desire to run OS4 on another platform: anti-piracy measures are irrelevant -- if the code does not support other architectures it simply will not work. Consumer demand will determine if and when additional systems are supported.

2. The requirement dissuades companies from developing additional Amiga solutions: the licensing agreement is not onerous, the reality is that there are no vendors lining up and showing interest in producing additional hardware. No one has abandoned the market as a result of this requirement.

3. Anti-piracy measures are futile: there are certainly no guarantees that any anti-piracy solution will be effective in the long run but it does allow the existing vendors to transparently protect their investment.

4. Moral outrage: OS4 is a commercial product, not freeware or open source. If you have a fundamental issue with anti-piracy measures then this solution is not for you -- there are ample alternatives.

5. You're a MOS troll: let's face it, anti-piracy measures don't prevent you from running OS4 on your Pegasos, Genesi does - and the MOS/Pegasos tandem is virtually identical -- you may not have anti-piracy measures built in to the hardware but you're buying the operating system and the hardware from the same source.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 22 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 18-Mar-2003 16:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (DaveP):
If I could get a good deal on a Teron PX, yes of course. Why?

I could even imagine buying a bundled/dongled/"AmigaOne"-licensed Teron from Eyetech if that were an attractive option to me. Although I personally would much prefer a faster/cheaper/more-abundantly-available PowerBook or PowerMac, used or new, and the Pegasos2 vapourware actually looks like it could be comparable to a modern Mac. It's about availability of options and maximising the possible user/installbase. Not what particular piece of silicon, copper and plastic that Seehund or DaveP prefers. :)
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 23 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 16:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Seehund):
>It's about regulation of an unnecessary and artificially created "Amiga
>hardware market".

Why are you talking if you don't have a clue ? Fact is, the Amiga market cannot survive without HW sales. And it is not competitive against the pc resales market. And, guess why even Apple (not a small one) killed their clones? They are making profit again since then. So please, stop this ... finally its a simple business descision which has to be accepted...or switch to another platform, please! There is no reason at all for your blurb. I'd understand if the supply chain would break down and Amiga's won't be available - but this will happen if the involved companies aren't able to make money (tell me, why isn't morhos available for anything else than Pegasos, yet? And, no, I do not expect them to release a Mac version anytime soon...they live from HW sales - if ever).
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 24 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 18-Mar-2003 16:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Seehund):
I just wondered if you were still interested.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 25 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 18-Mar-2003 17:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
The amiga market cannot survive without the hardware sales?

The amiga market has survived without both hardware and software sales.

But I agree, borrowing money from rabid fans is not a long term solution.

The petitioners are actually trying to help both Amiga and themselves.
They help themselves by being able to purchase AmigaOS4 for their platform choice. Not pirate it, *purchase it*...it is the lack of support for those platforms that encourages *piracy*...more of the world turned upside down from Amiga, Inc.

The open hardware plan helps amiga, because Amiga gets more sales.

You can say, well its only available for Amigaone and maybe certain configuration of Cyberstorm, get over it.

Well most Amigan's left are not going to buy that version of OS4, get over it.
I will not pay 800 for a motherboard under any circumstances, and I'm not the only one. Even half of Amiga's supporters don't really have that kind of money, and are just cheerleading for the fun factor. Few will vote with their pocket books in favor of such a scheme.

I grant you an amazing number will buy it, even, I consider 500 people to be a staggering number to throw away that kind of money.....maybe after the initial sales they will try something else....but I'm afraid after a highly public launch, garnering attention, but in the worst way as the press examines 800 dollar motherboards that are sub 1GHz and that are 2xAGP and ancient memory architecture, then the resulting lack of sales....and you get negative momentum.

Will there be a 2nd chance to garner attention, this time with a valid plan for
expanding the market base? They seem to be pinning their hopes on it.

I say, NO. There is one valid, 'last best chance'....and they intend to blow it for a few pennies...

no vision at all. They aren't willing to gamble.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 26 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by tonya on 18-Mar-2003 17:28 GMT
LOL! , another try to get os4 onto pc,pegasos,mac or whatever.... FORGET IT..i will NEVER support this, finally when something is happening you start with such bullocks.

BLEH!
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 27 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 17:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Tronman):
>So yes, I would buy a 4.0 copy if it would run on the Cyberstorm card. But I >guess that makes me some sort of pirate..

Just fyi, AOS4 will become available for CSPPC, AOne and perhaps BPPC if
Hyperion gets the needed information to make it work on the BPPC. Support
for the Mediator lies in the hand of Elbox I am afraid though.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 28 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 18-Mar-2003 17:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (MarkTime):
Quote from Fleecy:

"There is no point in pushing the Amiga into a market where it is not yet ready to provide an adequate solution or it will die before it takes the first step."

I hope the true believers will come to understand something.
Amiga, Inc. has promised that 2003 is the big re-launch of Amiga.

They would have been at CeBIT if OS4 had been ready to demo.
I believe they will be at the next show launching OS4.

I believe that!....but Amiga, Inc. is still a company that does not believe in themselves, a company that both plans to launch a product, but at the same time
make sure everyone knows how clever they are, by stating "WE KNOW ITS NOT READY"

We will point out to you its flaws...its 800 dollars for a 2xAGP motherboard, lacks DDR support, is a sub 1GHz machine in this already expensive configuration.

They will both launch it, and suggest to the average user not to buy it!

ITS MADNESS.


I agree with Fleecy, the product isn't ready.
I believe they are telling the truth about Launching the product this year (anyway).

I believe they will garner media attention...

and therefore I believe they are squandering the legitimate interest the
media will show them......

Does anyone else think, launching a product and selling it as not ready
is madness?

Well I know the answer...about half of you do, the other half thinks its a great idea.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 29 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 18-Mar-2003 17:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (anonymous):
> This is patently stupid.

Uhh... "This" being your note, or the original post? Ambiguity is the hobgoblin of small minds - or something...

> Those that object to this measure have their own ulterior motives

They do? Oh. How perspicacious of you.

> and none of them provide a convincing argument why anti-piracy provisions should be eliminated:

Damn right, buster. Nor have they provided a convincing argument why context-switching should be eliminated - perhaps because that's a specious issue too?

Tell me, what is the visual equivalent of sticking one's fingers in one's ears and going "Wah wah wah wah wahhh can't hear you!"? You certainly seem well-practised in it.

> 2. The requirement dissuades companies from developing additional Amiga solutions: the licensing agreement is not onerous, the reality is that there are no vendors lining up and showing interest in producing additional hardware. No one has abandoned the market as a result of this requirement.

This is an idiotic claim. There is not alternative to OS4-with-"dongle", so it is inherently impossible to demonstrate that the OS4 "dongle" has *not* dissuaded others from "producing additional hardware"; on the other hand, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that the dongle *has* dissuaded several interested parties.

> 3. Anti-piracy measures are futile: there are certainly no guarantees that any anti-piracy solution will be effective in the long run but it does allow the existing vendors to transparently protect their investment.

Investment in what? A failed motherboard design? Just to point out the bleeding obvious yet again, Eyetech and Amiga Inc. are separate companies; AI has no business trying to protect an individual Amiga-oriented retailer at the expense of all other retailers and all erstwhile customers.

If OS investment is your point, there are numerous software-only anti-pirating measures that self-evidently provide no barrier to other hardware manufacturers AND HENCE MORE OS SALES.

But then, you've ignored all these arguments multiple times already, so why am I wasting my time presenting them again? Rhetorical question.

> 4. Moral outrage: OS4 is a commercial product, not freeware or open source. If you have a fundamental issue with anti-piracy measures then this solution is not for you -- there are ample alternatives.

Again, "Wah wah wah...". Seehund (and many others) have repeatedly, explicitly and clearly stated that this is not an objection to anti-piracy measures. As has also been said before, the fact that Amiga Inc. officers and assorted anonymous idiots stubbornly raise this canard time after time suggests that they think this gives them a leg to stand on when everybody else can see that they are already up to their necks in the quicksand (excuse the mixed metaphors, please).

> 5. You're a MOS troll: let's face it, anti-piracy measures don't prevent you from running OS4 on your Pegasos, Genesi does - and the MOS/Pegasos tandem is virtually identical -- you may not have anti-piracy measures built in to the hardware but you're buying the operating system and the hardware from the same source.

Bingo! You just completed the full set. Here's yer 5, now bugger off back to your pit of drooling senility.

Gregg
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 30 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 18-Mar-2003 17:56 GMT
@Sam Smith
>If OS4 was available for other hardware platforms what platform would you personally buy it for?

I would buy it for Pegasos. Not because MOS wouldn't be enough, but because I am interested in it.


@MarkTime
>But I agree, borrowing money from rabid fans is not a long term solution.

Not a long term solution? It's been like... FOREVER already, and the end doesn't seem to be anywhere near. It is already a long term solution, in my personal opinion.


It was interesting move from Genesi to plan giving MOS for free for Phase5-card owners. In coming months we'll see how much it actually eats up OS4 sales. Some people are willing to settle for free than pay something, thats for sure.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 31 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 18:15 GMT
For what it's worth, I think that petition is lame. You can petition companies to behave in more umanitarian ways, for example, not to change their strategies.
I don't see why Fleecy should even be remotely interested in replying to that letter.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 32 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 18-Mar-2003 18:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Tronman):
Actually, AOS4 will be ready for CSPPC _before_ AmigaOne. As a matter of fact, I would have expected a release for Cyberstorm just around the corner. So the whole "if AOS4 on CSPPC" will hopefully become a moot point pretty soon. Then I can start going on and on about how it's so dreadful that you can only buy OS4 for outdated Phase5 hardware, no? No?
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 33 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2003 18:17 GMT
And when you're done with that go petition Apple, SGI and SUN please.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 34 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 18-Mar-2003 18:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
Maybe someone should set up a petition about how bad it is that Seehund only tries to save one market? :-)
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 35 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 18-Mar-2003 18:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Ole-Egil):
@ole

Maybe he thinks that only one of them is worth saving, think of it as a ringing
endorsement of AmigaOS4.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 36 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 18-Mar-2003 19:05 GMT
I could understand Seehund's deep rooted, perverted fetish with this petition of his IF OS4 was already out and available for its target machines (A1, Blizzard/CyberstormPPC). As it's not out yet then what the hell is the point of prattling on about a non-dongled version to run on alternative hardware?

There will be no magic single version of OS4 that will run on Macs, AmigaOne, Pegasos, Terron, etc. As someone pointed out, each version will need to be "tweaked" for the different hardware it will run on.

So what hardware is there to run it on?

AmigaOne - version coming soon.
Pegasos - 75% in the hands of Anti-Amiga fanatics who wouldn't buy a copy.
Classic Cyberstorm/BlizzardPPC - coming soon.
Mac - OS4 on a laptop!!!
Teron PX - don't hold your breath.

The only reasons at the moment for signing this petition is either to aquire a copy for a Pegasos which unfortunately will be instantly pirated and supplied to the MOS Trolls or for a Mac version to save someone buying new hardware (fair enough if they've paid for OS4).

For the moment, Hyperion need to concentrate on delivering OS4 to the announced hardware mediums. After that, I see no reason why they shouldn't consider a version for Mac hardware. I don't see a problem with them considering a Pegasos version either, but whatever platform they decide to support, they have the right to protect their project with a hardware dongle in order to secure sales and combat the "hobby" pirate. As this "dongle" is not going to be a life-threating device for an OS4 user, I see no reason to oppose its existance other than the user wishing to pirate the product. Yes, you can make lame excuses such as "I don't want to block one of my precious USB ports", etc, but that's just pathetic and as an arguement it doesn't hold water.

As far as a see, this is just a deliberate effort to convinve people that there's something "bad" about OS4, stir up hatred towards Hyperion and help the opposition. Yet another undercover operative exposed!!!

Of course, Seehund might really want a version to run on his Mac that he's willing to pay for, but attacking Hyperion for their OS4 roadmap and swamping the news sites with his disturbing obsession at every given opportunity it not going to win over the Frieden brothers...
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 37 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 18-Mar-2003 20:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
From Anonymous Coward:
>>And when you're done with that go petition Apple, SGI and SUN please.

SUN did release Solaris 9 for Intel, after a long and protracted discussions with their user community.

I assume your example was meant to belittle community involvement, but in 3 three companies you chose as examples, one of them did exactly what you are suggesting is impossible....released their OS for commodity Intel hardware, even though their main target is Sparc, and though they originally planned not to release Solaris 9 to that market.

Apple is less open to such demands, but they did release Darwin as open source....

and the main thing, is Apple has at least understood, recently that they have to compete on price, and have lowered their prices to be more competitive....

But apple is a different beast...apple makes their own computers..Amiga, Inc. doesn't....so this is the most baffling strategy of all, to both be software only and to not be platform agnostic is strange.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 38 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 18-Mar-2003 20:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Ole-Egil):
Two More Weeks?
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 39 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by ToDi on 18-Mar-2003 20:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Gregg):
Btw. the executive update wasn't removed. It was moved to another url and unlinked from all executive-pages.

Here it is: http://os.amiga.com/corporate/041202-mcewen.shtml
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 40 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 18-Mar-2003 21:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Darrin):
@Darris

Please, PLEASE, _PLEASE_ spare us from your Pegasos/MOS/Genesi hatred. And I believe there are just as many trollers in "Amiga"-side (yes, I use "Amiga", I am a f*cking Amigist aswell eventhough I'm waiting for Pegasos, and that will never change) as there are in Pegasos-side.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 41 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 18-Mar-2003 21:05 GMT
I've been collecting tossed out systems, working ones..... It'll be real nice to have a small and efficient OS to run on them... But that will be AROS.... pretty well anti-priacy protected too....Shrug..Seeing how I don't ever plan on getting AOS3.5 or beyond.... AROS really will be something of an upgrade to 3.1....I say let Amiga Inc apply all the piracy protecting they want, and hopefully the constraints will lead people to more genuinely free and open systems. Where people really do need to move. cept for those into IP bitch slapping.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 42 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 18-Mar-2003 21:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Seehund):
>A USB dongle or whatever (even software based protection) delivered with >separately sold copies would be just as efficient.

To my understanding it is software protection. Until there is money coming in they dont want to support 101 motherboards and setups, its fair enough isnt it?
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 43 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 18-Mar-2003 21:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Seehund):
>But why would it be more OK to limit sales of AmigaOS 4 than 4.5, 5 or >whatever? (Not to mention that "AmigaOS 5" is, as far as we know, nothing more >than a paper concept today)

Thats exactly the opposite of what I said.

It doesnt make sense to try and get something supported and working on 101 configurations out the box. The next major version might be more capable of going "mainstream" and supporting a greater hardware base, but you dont want to try running before you can walk.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 44 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Mar-2003 21:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (DaveP):
I would and I actually will buy it for my BPPC. I would certainly like it if
that version wasn't restricted to that hardware by licencing though.
Platforms would still needs drivers but at least they wouldn't need special
dongles on board or "certified dealers and manufacturers".
I would vote for a boxed version for all *supported* hardware with an external
dongle, usb or something.
I would also vote for an open HAL but neither the OS4 team nor the MOS one will
probably do that.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 45 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 18-Mar-2003 21:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Darrin):
So, MOS users are pirates and would be the first to pirate such a version, right?
Nice logic. It offended me.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 46 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Amiga User (Not Blind) on 18-Mar-2003 22:28 GMT
OS4 will be hacked to run on other hardware and i really hope it does because i will not pay hundreds of $$$`s on hardware which is not worth the money and has way to old specs for something released in 2003.

AmigaONE is only aimed at people who are just obsessed fans as clearly it is laughable to anyone outside of the Amiga.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 47 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by wilhelm on 19-Mar-2003 00:46 GMT
I would love an AOS Version to run on a mac laptop. I really doubt Ainc has the infrastructure and bucks to develope a ppc laptoc anywhere as elegant as the newest macs. There must be some way to copy protect a software product so it can be tied to only one computer at a time.
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 48 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 19-Mar-2003 00:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (wilhelm):
> There must be some way to copy protect a software product so it can be
> tied to only one computer at a time

There is - MS do it with XP, and oh look, everyone slates them for it.

If Amiga did the same thing however, it'd be acceptable...
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 49 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Mar-2003 01:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Hooligan/DCS):
>>Please, PLEASE, _PLEASE_ spare us from your Pegasos/MOS/Genesi hatred. And I
>>believe there are just as many trollers in "Amiga"-side (yes, I use "Amiga",

I don't suffer from "Pegasos/MOS/Genesi hatred", I just have a problem with the
Pegasos/MOS/Genesi Trolls that slag Amiga Inc/Hyperion/Eyetech off while praising Pegasos/MOS/Genesi for doing exactly the same thing (or not doing as the case may be). I also have a problem with the "secret agenda brigade" who appear to be hell bent on conducting subversive operations to undermine the Amiga Inc/Hyperion/Eyetech alliance whilst claiming to be acting in their interests. "JoannaK" was a classic example of this sort of "cookoo in the nest" and I have a sneaking suspicion that SeeHund and his so-called petition is another.

>>I am a f*cking Amigist aswell eventhough I'm waiting for Pegasos, and that
>>will never change) as there are in Pegasos-side.

Hmmm... that sounds like a good slogan for the Amiga Inc t-shirts.... black shirts with "I am a f*cking Amigist" in big red letters with a huge boing ball on the back...
Open letter to Fleecy Moss and Amiga, Inc. : Comment 50 of 83ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Mar-2003 01:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>>So, MOS users are pirates and would be the first to pirate such a version, >>right? Nice logic. It offended me.

Yes and No. Yes, 75% of them would and no, 25% of them would buy a copy. I actually place you in the 25% that would fork out the cash. Cheesegrate is firmly in the other 75% because, even though he wouldn't be caught dead using OS4 on his precious Pegasos, he'd want to own a pirate copy out of principle and then tell us all about it on ANN. ;-)

Hopefully, Hyperion will bring out a dongled version of OS4 for the Pegasos somewhere down the road so that all the peggy owners can have some "Desktop" software to run on their machines after all of their developers move on to writing software for desktop boxes.

OK Bill, I'm checking my "In-Box" after that last remark I made ;-)

I've said it before that if Thendic and Hyperion/Eyetech had come to an agreement to produce a version of OS4 for the Pegasos then I'd be using a Pegasos with MOS by now while I wait for my pre-paid copy of OS4 to arrive. Unfortunately, they couldn't work together so I'm getting an AmigaOne/OS4 combo instead.

I have to say Alkis that you've been getting very "touchy" over the last few months. You used to be extremely polite, but lately you've been surprising me with the venom you've been putting into some of your replies in other threads... It's not like you... Furthermore, I'll point out that some of the things you've said on other threads to other people were probably highly offensive to them too. If you care about your feelings then give a thought to others as well. Even us BAF's have feelins too!!! <sniff, sniff>

Anyway, sorry if I offended YOU or any of the 25% that really would purchase a copy. I was trying to hit a nerve with the other 75%....
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