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[News] HIGHWAY USB successor announcementANN.lu
Posted on 23-Mar-2003 10:32 GMT by Michael Böhmer29 comments
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E3B announces the successor of the first Amiga Classic USB controller: ALGOR has successfully finished all necessary tests and is going into production right now. A full press release can be found on the E3B website in both English and German versions.
Technical data and further details can also be found there.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 1 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 23-Mar-2003 09:38 GMT
Hmmm looks delicious .......
"Sad" thing is I allready bought a HighWAy ;(

But since the speed is o.k. and I don't need the flash, it'll be o.k. ;)
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 2 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Amiga User (Not Blind) on 23-Mar-2003 10:21 GMT
Zorro is old news and should be left in the 90s where it should be, only Amiga die hards would want mega expensive Zorro solutions than really cheap PCI solutions which are better and a whole of a lot cheaper.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 3 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Ryu on 23-Mar-2003 10:34 GMT
Would this be the card thats being made at DCE?
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 4 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Mar-2003 11:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Ryu):
Are you the guy with the extreme double standards like pirating movies and mp3s but pissing at people that use abandonware without paying for it?
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 5 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Mar-2003 11:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Amiga User (Not Blind)):
Well, if you are not blind as you say, than you have either problems with your brain or your ability to see is very limited :) .. try using your PCI board with flashrom - which is available EVERYWHERE for NOTHING with your Windows 95 drivers in your AMIGA 4000 Zorro slot .. *laughter* .. can you kiddies not just stay away from this site and get a life? Please??
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 6 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Ryu on 23-Mar-2003 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
what relevence does that have here?

for the record I do have a collection of mp3's, no movies.
I am against piracy of amiga software on principle that this is a small market and even a small ammount of piracy hurts developers, and I for one would like to see a continued flow of software for the amiga coming from developers, and I wouldnt call things such as AmIRC abandonware. Someone needs to get there facts right and stop taking threads off topic.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 7 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Amiga User (Not Blind) on 23-Mar-2003 12:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
Totally irrelavent and so stupid you have to resort to personal attacks.

Zorro is the worst possible thing for hardware these days and that is fact unless Eyetech are going to remove the PCI slots from the Teron boards and replace them with Zorro slots just to make die hards like yourself happy.

All you require is the Amiga software to run the PCI cards instead of this mad attempt to resurrect a old and outdated expansion bus which hopefully when the A1 comes out and hopefully it will become obsolete.

@Ryu

Why the double standards? piracy is piracy full stop and all this fake anti Amiga piracy crap is quite hypocritical.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 8 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 23-Mar-2003 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Amiga User (Not Blind)):
MP3 per se isn't piracy. It depends on the laws of your country. Here, I am allowed to do a backup of just about any media, and I prefer listening to my music which I bought as CDs in MP3 form.

It's not illegal for me to do this.
Now, this is really offtopic, and if you really want to discuss this, I suggest you join #amiga on ircnet or just drop me a mail. I'm sure we can get Ryu to join to, if you like.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 9 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Kowalczyk on 23-Mar-2003 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Amiga User (Not Blind)):
"All you require is the Amiga software to run the PCI cards instead of this mad attempt to resurrect a old and outdated expansion bus which hopefully when the A1 comes out and hopefully it will become obsolete."

I don't view this H/W announcement as an attempt to resurrect the Zorro bus, but a means of providing added functionality. This card would reduce the number of reboots by allowing patches in the flashrom and the ability to use off the shelf keyboards and mice at boot time. I think it's a pretty slick piece of hardware.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 10 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 23-Mar-2003 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Amiga User (Not Blind)):
Well.. Its a USB controller for Classic Amigas. Classic Amigas have Zorro slots. Hence they made a Zorro card. It would be pretty stupid to make a PCI card specifically for Classic Amigas as there would be nowhere to plug it in. Maybe you didn't understand this.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 11 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Doobrey on 23-Mar-2003 15:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Amiga User (Not Blind)):
>All you require is the Amiga software to run the PCI cards instead of this mad >attempt to resurrect a old and outdated expansion bus which hopefully when the >A1 comes out and hopefully it will become obsolete.

All I need is software for a PCI card on my 4000??
Wow..guess I won`t have to bother spending hundreds of pounds on a Mediator busboard and new case for my A4000 then !
Care to explain how that works?

OK, so Zorro based cards are more expensive than generic PCI ones, but for some the difference in price is nowhere near the cost of a PCI busboard and new case to house the damn thing.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 12 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 23-Mar-2003 15:39 GMT
Amiga Still proves itself to have a Bus design capable to handle newest technologies.

Try to do this with a 486 DX2 66MHz or DX2 120MHz, or with a Pentium 75 MHz.

The Amiga ***DESIGN*** rulez!!!

Giving us the proof that, the path Amiga technology opened in the world of informatics, if it was followed, it could have given us more efficiency into other fields too and even into X86 world...

(And at least many designers copied Amiga concepts into technology like consoles, motherboard design, mobile phones, embedded systems.)

With a more efficient technology, we could still use 200 MHz Pentiums (which now are completely outdated) even with Windows XP and in complete productivity.

AND

we could use even AGP cards with elder pentiums...

OR

speediest processor like 2,4 GHz could be more cheap due to the market competition lead up by life-extension of elder CPUs...

Think more before opening your mouths and give air to them.

And, after you had thinking of it, then think again.

Bye,

Raffaele
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 13 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 23-Mar-2003 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Raffaele):
Hey, I have PCI 100Mbit cards in my 486 DX4-100. I don't think you should go down that road ;-)
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 14 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Radfoo on 23-Mar-2003 19:25 GMT
"Moreover, a 512kB FlashROM has been integrated on the ALGOR to transparently include the USB stack Poseidon right after a system cold powerup.
This allows to boot an ALGOR equipped system right off USB mass storage devices, to use USB mice and keyboards during Early Startup Menu and to include system patches like those from OS3.9."

Other than there being no highspeed option, the above feature makes this the best USB option currently available for classic Amigas.

I have a Thylacine card, which works really well but becuase of the extra features/drivers I will buy an ALGOR.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 15 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 23-Mar-2003 20:32 GMT
Question:

Except the Flash-ROM...

Is it the Algor bufferized in order to provide Amiga access to fast USB devices???

Do you know it, bufferize data is a known trick to store them and then move all the weight to Amiga Ram, which seats on a slow bus.

Slow if compared to data transfer rate of USB 2.0...

Bye,

Raffaele
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 16 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 23-Mar-2003 20:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Ole-Egil):
Nice Motherboard thou have, oh brave nordic hero...

;-)))))

Bye,

Raffaele
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 17 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 24-Mar-2003 06:37 GMT
Oh, and btw. Whoever figured out the name Al Gore is good for a Zorro card? ;-)
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 18 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Tcheko on 24-Mar-2003 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Amiga User (Not Blind)):
I have a GRex A4000 PCI busboard in my old A4000 standard case. I have no more PCI slots left. I am willing to buy a such product to add USB ports to my A4K. Even if you have a PCI bus you can still have the need of a Zorro USB solution...

Who said optical mouse? :)

Do someone have found a decent front 3.5inch USB panel that fit into the A4000 case second drive bay?
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 19 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Jaeson Koszarsky on 24-Mar-2003 12:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Amiga User (Not Blind)):
>>Zorro is old news and should be left in the 90s where it should be, only Amiga die hards would want mega expensive Zorro solutions than really cheap PCI solutions which are better and a whole of a lot cheaper.


Ok. Amiga PCI board + cheap PCI board solutions?? Which is cheaper?

It's nice to see vendors still supporting classic machines. As long as people will pay for the products then why complain about "old news", go buy your PCI card and stop whining.

If I want to use USB on my Draco, I can't use PCI as there is not PCI option for it. So Highway, or now Algor, is a great solution.

I'm glad to see the efforts at performance boosts but I'd like to see a Z3 version sometime.

Jaeson K.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 20 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 24-Mar-2003 16:22 GMT
Why do they write
# compatible with AmigaOS 3.1, 3.5 and 3.9
# USB stack is fully compatible with MorphOS <-----

and then requirements :
# Amiga OS 3.1 or higher
# Processor 68030 (25MHz) or higher
# 100% compatible Zorro II / III bus

Is this product usable with morphos or not ?
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 21 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Gelb on 24-Mar-2003 16:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (catohagen):
I guess the easiest way to obtain this information is to mail and ask them (if you are serious of course).
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 22 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 24-Mar-2003 16:34 GMT
I found FALSE information in the Algor technical data in the E3B website:
'compatible with USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 specification (no highspeed mode)'

Algor is a USB host controller.
If a USB host is compatible with the USB 2.0 specification, it MUST provide highspeed mode (USB 2.0).

As Algor *does not* provide highspeed mode, it means it is NOT compatible with the USB 2.0 specification.
Algor is compatible with the USB 1.1 specification at the most. Which means it is a USB 1.1 controller.

As USB 2.0 devices are backward-compatible with obsolete USB 1.1-standard controllers, the Algor technical data should read:
'compatible with USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 *devices* (in the USB 1.1 mode only)'
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 23 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 24-Mar-2003 16:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (catohagen):
It is compatible with MorphOS. PPC native binaries are provided just like with the Highway and Subway boards. I'm not sure what happens with the FlashROM contents under MorphOS though. Didn't try yet.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 24 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Böhmer on 25-Mar-2003 10:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Rat):
Hi Rat,

nice to see you again. Still lurking around, eh ?
[at this place, sorry to all of you that I must answer on this little guy]

> I found FALSE information in the Algor technical data in the E3B website:
> 'compatible with USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 specification (no highspeed mode)'

I'm disappointed. You have posted the same text on the highway_usb mailing list and here, but did omit the www.amiga.org and www.amiga-news.de places. Too bad that you can't write in German... anyhow, you should place your "facts" at least also on www.amiga.org. Just for completeness.

Once more, I must tell you that you just have started a slander.
Don't trust that fact that you are outside the EU and far away from being reachable by EU legislation. Poland will join soon. Things will change.

Michael
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 25 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by AmiDelf on 25-Mar-2003 14:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Michael Böhmer):
Zorro is power! - Zorro is Amiga! - Zorro is selfdetected during boot! - Zorro kicks namewize! - Zorro is a Amiga product! - Zorro should be developed further! - Why do we allways need to follow other standards?

Regards,
AmiDelf
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 26 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 26-Mar-2003 11:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Michael Böhmer):
>I'm disappointed. You have posted the same text on the highway_usb
>mailing list and here, but did omit the www.amiga.org and
>www.amiga-news.de places. Too bad that you can't write in
>German... anyhow, you should place your "facts" at least also on >www.amiga.org. Just for completeness.

I have posted it here and then thought that the highway_usb mailing list is a better place for such comments. So I moved the post there. If you think my note should also be placed in other lists, German too, just copy it there. You have my consent ;-)

> Once more, I must tell you that you just have started a slander.

Slander?
No slander. I just noticed that advertising USB 1.1 controller (host) as compatible with USB 2.0 specification means publishing untrue data about the product. It's your business to clarify it.

>Don't trust that fact that you are outside the EU and far away from
>being reachable by EU legislation. Poland will join soon. Things
>will change.

Oh, you are wrong. The Polish legislation follows the EU legislation in the duty of giving truthful product data. This will not change, I guess :-)
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 27 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Tcheko on 26-Mar-2003 12:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Rat):
They said :

Compatible with USB1.1 and USB2.0 device but **no highspeed mode**.

They do not hide anything else. It would be a lie if they did not mention the no highspeed mode.

In fact, you can connect any USB device but at USB1.1 speed.

There is nothing more to add. IMHO, your comment is obvious and useless.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 28 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 26-Mar-2003 16:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Tcheko):
>They said :
>
>Compatible with USB1.1 and USB2.0 device but **no highspeed mode**.

No, they did not use the word 'device'.

They said:
'compatible with USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 specification (no highspeed mode)'

In case of the USB host controllers (Algor is a USB host controller, not USB device) the lack of High Speed mode means that this controller is NOT compatible with USB 2.0 specification.

Replacing the word 'specification' by the word 'device' is exactly what I proposed. Your comment confirms that I'm right.
HIGHWAY USB successor announcement : Comment 29 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Böhmer on 26-Mar-2003 16:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Rat):
Ah, Mr. Rat. Good evening.
Nice to see you crawling around.

> In case of the USB host controllers (Algor is a USB host controller, not USB > device) the lack of High Speed mode means that this controller is NOT
> compatible with USB 2.0 specification.

Mind if I ask a question ?

The E3B website shows since the Amiga 2001 trade show in Cologne this (and exactly this) specification line for both the HIGHWAY and SUBWAY controllers.
These specs were printed in paper form in several Amiga magazines, German and English writing ones; they were in online magazines, in the news pages and in newsgroups.
Moreover, there is another website online which has a similar product to the HIGHWAY USB controller, also giving exactly the same specification line (which is not a miracle as this guy uses the same USB controller chip as on the HIGHWAY / SUBWAY).

So, either you needed just two years to recognize this fact, or - you have a certain reason for starting this slander now with the ALGOR announcement ?

So, please, give me a hint.
Michael
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