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[News] Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphEDANN.lu
Posted on 24-Apr-2003 17:22 GMT by Martin 'Senex' Heine31 comments
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As MorphOS-News.de reports, Dietmar Eilert, developer of GoldED, is working full time on "MorphED" since Friday, April 18th 2003.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 1 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Apr-2003 15:29 GMT
probably good news, but I wont buy it.....golded does the job....
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 2 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 24-Apr-2003 15:38 GMT
Great news! Genesi is wrapping this new system/OS up rather nicely with some of the best and brightest of the Amiga Community. Looks like they are working for the long term picture. =)


Dammy
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 3 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 24-Apr-2003 16:47 GMT
There'll be some frost in hell before I stop using Cygnus Editor :)
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 4 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by volm on 24-Apr-2003 17:26 GMT
well, maybe there _will_ be frost in hell this year. things are moving in that direction for me so far -_-
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 5 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Apr-2003 18:45 GMT
How long will it be before Genesi's money runs out?
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 6 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Apr-2003 19:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
it probably already has.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 7 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Dietmar on 24-Apr-2003 19:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (hooligan/dcs):
> There'll be some frost in hell before I stop using Cygnus Editor :)

I will provide MorphED with an (optional) CygnusED-inspired menu and keyboard setup to address people like you :-) Have you tried GoldED Barebones ? That version already has such a setup. This is of course not CED, far from it, but at least it makes transition easier.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 8 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 24-Apr-2003 20:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
Long after when you think it will...
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 9 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 24-Apr-2003 20:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Right... Any proof?
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 10 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 24-Apr-2003 23:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
>>How long will it be before Genesi's money runs out?

>it probably already has.

This may surprise you: Genesi has this interesting business model where they actually sell PRODUCTS. Not just Pegasos either. And then they make contractual deals for many thousands of units with lots of up-front money involved. For some reason this generates further income which they roll back into the company ... mainly so they can just give away THOUSANDS of T-shirts as they travel all over the world and stay in expensive hotels to party after attending costy trade shows. ; }
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 11 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 25-Apr-2003 01:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Dietmar):
@Dietmar

Yes, I have tried a demo but that was long time ago. It's just that I have used CED from the beginning of 90s so it has come sort of habit for me to use it.
The look and feel of CED ain't that important.. simple, working, fast and trustfull are the words I'd use to describe it. But CED-look doesn't hurt I quess :-)

Naturally I'll be the first ones to test the new version of GED.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 12 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 25-Apr-2003 01:48 GMT
As Dietmar told me by e-mail, he is not working as his main job on
MorphED, he has just been programming almost non-stop during the last
days on it. Seems someone did misunderstand this.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 13 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Christoph Gutjahr on 25-Apr-2003 01:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Senex):
So the next revision of GED will not be MOS only? That might calm down a few people on amiga-news.de...
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 14 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Apr-2003 04:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Christoph Gutjahr):
Can’t image it becoming MorphOS only, it look where OS friendly, I believe they only won’t to provide native support for PPC on MorphOS, emulation sucks.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 15 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Apr-2003 05:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Kjetil):
"Can't image it becoming MorphOS only, it look where OS friendly, I believe they only won't to provide native support for PPC on MorphOS, emulation sucks."

Emulation does not suck. It's a very useful tool for running existing programs. A JIT emulator on a G3 Pegasos or AmigaOne will give you the equivalent of at least a 200MHz 68040.

That is plenty fast enough for a text editor that was written to work well on a 30MHz machine. Maintaining separate versions for 68k and PPC would be a waste of time.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 16 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Diet#+ on 25-Apr-2003 05:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (hooligan/dcs):
@hooligan:
> The look and feel of CED ain't that important.. simple, working, fast and trustfull are the words I'd use to describe it.

When I wrote that a CED-inspired configuration would be provided, I didn't mean to provide a program that "looks" like another editor or mimics features. It's about reducing the annoying surprises when switching software: It's very hard to get the keymap of an editor out of your system. While testing the CED-keymapping with GoldED, I involuntary mangled my texts for days.

Btw, if you are into speed, you can't do anything wrong with GoldED, give it a try. It performs very well, regardless what editor you are using as point of reference. However, gap-buffer-style non-syntax-highlighting non-folding editors have an advantage with loading. That's an unavavoidable consequence of the design choosen and tradeoffs at this point pay off with other operations, and with usability.

There are areas where GoldED can't compete with smaller editors (footprint, simplicity, being self-contained). On the other hand, I personally don't really see such editors as competing products: they are different tools for different tasks. GoldED is for software development.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 17 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Apr-2003 06:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Don Cox):
>>"Can't image it becoming MorphOS only, it look where OS friendly, I believe they only won't to >>provide native support for PPC on MorphOS, emulation sucks."

>Emulation does not suck. It's a very useful tool for running existing programs. A JIT emulator on a
>G3 Pegasos or AmigaOne will give you the equivalent of at least a 200MHz 68040.

>That is plenty fast enough for a text editor that was written to work well on a 30MHz machine. >
>Maintaining separate versions for 68k and PPC would be a waste of time.

I do agree it is useful butt compared to having it run native, you can even start arguing about the benefits, not having the JIT overhead of converting 68k operation codes to PPC operation codes, when it really unnecessary, when you may have otter native apps or 68k task inn need for all the performance they can get, and there is the stability issue when the 68k is not adapted to the native environment.

So yes it is useful, butt it really it sucks compared to having it native.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 18 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Apr-2003 07:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Kjetil):
"I do agree it is useful but compared to having it run native, you can even start arguing about the benefits, not having the JIT overhead of converting 68k operation codes to PPC operation codes, when it really unnecessary, when you may have other native apps or 68k task inn need for all the performance they can get, and there is the stability issue when the 68k is not adapted to the native environment."

The "JIT overhead" is taken into account when I say it will run as a 200MHz 68040 on a 600MHz PPC. I see no reason why there should be any stability issue at all unless there are bugs in the emulator. MorphOS is claimed to run any non-AGA Amiga program.

I don't see what you mean by "not adapted to the native environment". Adapting the code to the PPC environment is exactly what the emulator does.

In the case of a ray tracer or audio mixer, which need all the calculating power you can get, recompiling the code (or critical sections) for PPC makes sense. In the case of a text editor, a type of program that works fine on a 7 MHz A2000, there is absolutely no need.

That is all assuming that the emulators work well. I believe both the MorphOS and the AmigaOS 4 JIT emulators are still in testing. However, the UAE and Amithlon emulators are well known.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 19 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 25-Apr-2003 07:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Diet#+):
Dietmar, we appreciate the effort and look forward to a good future collaborating together...;-)

Raquel and Bill
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 20 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 25-Apr-2003 08:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (greenboy):
>mainly so they can just give away THOUSANDS of T-shirts

As an "I am Amiga" club member, it does strike me as odd that I can get a T-Shirt for free from Genesi just by asking and yet still haven't got one out of Amiga Inc after paying $50 and waiting 9 months.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 21 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2003 08:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Lando):
Birth can't be far now .. has to happen any day .. lol ;)
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 22 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Dietmar on 25-Apr-2003 08:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Don Cox):
> In the case of a text editor, a type of program that works fine on a 7 MHz A2000, there is absolutely no need [of recompiling]

That's over-simplified. Amiga text editors back from that era run fine on 7MHz Amigas. Today's Amiga text editors run fine on 040/50. And use the extra power for syntax highlighting and spell checking. Today's best PC text editors would probably saturate a PPC Amiga: they parse the language (C++, Java etc.) on a semantical level and are basically real-time free form databases: Structure memebers are displayed while you are typing, scopes are detected while you are typing, they have incremental compilation etc.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 23 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Apr-2003 09:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Kjetil):
/*
The "JIT overhead" is taken into account when I say it will run as a 200MHz 68040 on a 600MHz PPC. I see no reason why there should be any stability issue at all unless there are bugs in the emulator. MorphOS is claimed to run any non-AGA Amiga program.
*/

The performance is probably a lot more then 200Mhz you should be about or approximately 1-4% less 600 Mhz system taking in count that you don’t need no byte swapping inn a power pc system, so inn comprehend Intel have to replace every 68k instructions with tow or more Intel instruction an PPC system should be abele to replace then with one, and this has nothing to do whit the JIT overhead,

JIT is I have read there are several ways a JIT emulator can work, some JIT emulators keeps an chase of the most used assembler functions this is to preserve memory, converts the otter functions when ever needed, so you get period of time that uses 100% your CPU for about 3ms, and then it goes back to about 100% ideal, 1% CPU usage, so you get lots of jitter in the time frames, so timing sensitive applications may suffer, as well as the applications that need all the CPU power it can get,

/*
I don't see what you mean by "not adapted to the native environment". Adapting the code to the PPC environment is exactly what the emulator does.
*/

The native environment may look the same butt don’t work inn the same way, when things are done faster the normal and not inn sync with otter function with inn the new kernel, so timing can be sensitive for some apps., and emulators never cover every angel there are always things that it don’t cover, just look at all the know emulators, you se new versions popping up every day..

/*
In the case of a ray tracer or audio mixer, which need all the calculating power you can get, recompiling the code (or critical sections) for PPC makes sense. In the case of a text editor, a type of program that works fine on a 7 MHz A2000, there is absolutely no need.
*/

Every task affects the total performance it you like it or not, there are simply not clock cycles to execute every thing you like in ineffective way, and at the same time get ideal performance if there is any south thing.

/*
That is all assuming that the emulators work well. I believe both the MorphOS and the AmigaOS 4 JIT emulators are still in testing. However, the UAE and Amithlon emulators are well known.
*/

The UAE and Amithlon emulators are not relevant in the same degree taking in count of better shouted architecture for the 68k JIT emulation on PPC system, best compared whit the performance of 68k programs on PowerMac system even if there is different operating system we are taking about.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 24 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 25-Apr-2003 11:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Don Cox):
Why waste resources for emulation when you could run native PPC code? Building separate PPC version is not difficult.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 25 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2003 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Lando):
9 months? try one year:-(
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 26 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2003 12:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (greenboy):
MorphED ;/ GoldED sounds much nicer... ...why does every program these days have to have the prefix:

Ami<insert name>
A<insert name>
Morph<insert name>

Maybe i'll change my name by depoll to AmiDave :)

Morph OS - even more obscure than Amiga OS : maybe that could be Genesi's new slogan :/
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 27 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2003 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Christoph Gutjahr):
HOPE NOT - why would he want to reduce he target audience/market even further!?
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 28 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2003 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Lando):
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... strange indeed... makes you wonder how they plan to deliver an operarting system... they can't even deliver a t-shirt
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 29 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 25-Apr-2003 13:26 GMT
don't even start about the shirts. you know where that will lead to.
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 30 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Dietmar on 25-Apr-2003 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
> MorphED ;/ GoldED sounds much nicer... ...why does every program these days have to have the prefix:

Not very creative, I agree, but practical. Designates intended platform and class of program. emacs is a cool name but with no sense (well, to me). I like bold names, such as "Media Player", that must drive the competition crazy ;)
Dietmar Eilert is working on MorphED : Comment 31 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 25-Apr-2003 15:37 GMT
Rename it to .. tadam... *** MEGAEDITOR ***

:)
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