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[Rant] RANT.ANN.lu
Posted on 28-Apr-2003 09:24 GMT by AdmV25 comments
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I have previously asked that moderators here actually signify threads they close/wipe out. I am asking AGAIN. If you run a website with an unmoderated /rant area, even if you don't like the content, or it breaks the rules, PLEASE at least have the courtesy to show the thread as closed/removed. Several such threads have just disappeared. And one comment within such a thread does not signify that the thread may not have content worth a read. AdmV
RANT. : Comment 1 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 28-Apr-2003 07:30 GMT
I agree. If anything, it renders my postings and the time I spent on writing them worthless, which bothers me to a great lenght: if I had known in advance that the thread was going to be deleted, I'd not have spent time writing stuff in it.

I'm all for something à la OSNews: there comments are _moderated down_, not deleted, and you can still read them, if you wish.
RANT. : Comment 2 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Apr-2003 07:45 GMT
Good point there!
RANT. : Comment 3 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 28-Apr-2003 07:50 GMT
I didn't remove it (Teemu? Christophe?). I re-instated it for the time being, but might re-consider that decision.

It's really a two-edged sword: on one hand there's valid requests to keep as many comments/news items online as possible; on the other hand there's people getting upset about what might or might not be considered as trolling.

Some people prefer to make up their own mind (they would be the one surfing Slashdot at -1 or 0); others don't want to filter through tons of material (and would have a threshold of at least 1 or 2 at Slashdot.) It's difficult to cater for these two kinds of people on ANN with the way its script work right now.
RANT. : Comment 4 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 28-Apr-2003 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Christian Kemp):
> It's really a two-edged sword: on one hand there's valid requests to keep as
> many comments/news items online as possible; on the other hand there's people
> getting upset about what might or might not be considered as trolling.

Christian, you just need NOT to remove the posts, but rather moderate them down. No one is questioning your right to moderate, here we're questioning the right to DELETE, which is a different matter altogether (although I understand that it was not you who did it).

Just moderate the culprit down, don't delete it nor the whole thread.
RANT. : Comment 5 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 28-Apr-2003 08:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Fabio Alemagna):
The problem with your suggestion is that ANN's scripts currently don't support any such moderation. Either a news item or comment is visible, or it isn't. Everything else would require me to change code in a fairly dramatic way, which I'm reluctant to commit to as long as more important projects (to me) take up most of my time.
RANT. : Comment 6 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 28-Apr-2003 09:04 GMT
More thoughts: I usually don't delete an entire thread just because a few comments are abusive in one way or another - there's comment moderation for that. However, the news item as such seems to have been worded in a fairly bad way, and the author could have made his point in a much more civil manner. As such, one of the moderators (I don't particularly fance downloading several Megs of logfiles to see who) made a decision that this was unfit for display. Unfortunately, by that time there had been a number of comments already.

I try to catch abuse straight away, but since I don't sit at a computer 24/7, and neither do the other moderators (I would hope :), such things happen... if the item in question had been removed straight away, there would have been no comments, no time invested by such comments, and therefore less of a problem in just getting rid of the item.

But I guess ideally, there should be a way to "moderate down" a news article. But the first problem is that such code would need to be written and secondly, just with the Forum category, people would have to use it widely. There's still a lot of people complaining "why is this on the main page?" when it is in fact in the forum category and they merely chose to have it displayed on the main page. The same would happen with thresholds, I'm afraid: people would just chose to display everything, and then still complain about a lack of quality.

(Anyway. Gotta go back to work.)
RANT. : Comment 7 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Teemu I. Yliselä on 28-Apr-2003 09:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Christian Kemp):
Must've been Christophe.
RANT. : Comment 8 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 28-Apr-2003 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Christian Kemp):
The problem is clear if some one makes a good comment to some ting that is deleted, you get bit interested in knowing what it where all about, of you provided an link from the moderated item to the original common, one more thing that can be nice if there where link on the original comment the once to replayed to the message. Like (1,5,6,20) in the lower/right side of the comment. So you can follow a discussion with out reading every thing else, I don’t like slash.dot, type of treads, really like what you have don so far,
RANT. : Comment 9 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 28-Apr-2003 09:32 GMT
Perhaps there should be another category on the front page called "crap" or something similar, where crap threads can be moved to. It will then be visible for those who wants to read crap but invisible to everyone else. I would like to read all the forum and rant posts, but not meaningless crap!
RANT. : Comment 10 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 28-Apr-2003 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Teemu I. Yliselä):
All I want to add is, I understand why you might want to delete some things, but you do that in the individual postings! If I as a reader here make a contribution, or pass a comment, by deleteing the thread without notice or comment, I end up going nuts looking for a thread I added to, that no longer exists, and has no comment as to where its gone!!

If the original poster is an idiot or makes abusive comments, or breaks rules, feel free to delete his comment, but do leave the rest.

If threads just get deleted, to be frank I won't take any further time to post here, as if my comments are merely to be thrown to the wind due to the original posters comments, I may well be wasting my time. If you must take action against a poster, feel free to do so, don't punish the whole thread.

Thanks for taking note

AdmV
RANT. : Comment 11 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 28-Apr-2003 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Teemu I. Yliselä):
Yes it was me.
I just went through the recent threads reading the 2 Amiga CEO threads and the fake one about Genesi.
I thought that the one I deleted should have been a comment and not a thread and that it may have provoqued next threads like "Someone from AmigaInc to stand down from AmigaInc".
I did not read the thread comments in detail. It was just again a new thread on the subject of the 3 others and I thought we had to put an end to new threads on this subject.
RANT. : Comment 12 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 28-Apr-2003 10:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Christophe Decanini):
Punish the user, not the threads. Otherwise you may find people stop posting/taking part.

AdmV
RANT. : Comment 13 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 28-Apr-2003 10:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (AdmV):
The problem is that I do not pop up here to moderate a thread everytime there is a new one. I understand your point but my concern was to avoid having several new threads on the same subject.
RANT. : Comment 14 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 28-Apr-2003 10:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (AdmV):
Maybe the solution would be to let it unmoderated ?
RANT. : Comment 15 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 28-Apr-2003 10:23 GMT
It's going wonderfully again isn't it!

First a CEO starts a rumour( whether true or not) about a CEO from another company. Where the hell those 200+ posts came from I don't know.

Then the moderators try to get things back to normal with deleting useless postings and now the moderators are attacked again.

If you people don't like it, don't come here. Let's just get back to normallity eventhough it might be dull. That doesn't matter though when I get my AmigaOne.

But thank god none of the newsposters( that includes me) on www.amiga.nl placed it at all.
RANT. : Comment 16 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Apr-2003 10:53 GMT
I would suggest to add another category for threads that aren't really abusive or complete insane but that are more or less bullshit. Yes, add the Bullshit category for this kind of threads.
RANT. : Comment 17 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by reflect on 28-Apr-2003 12:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
hah! I second that, a bullshit category would have been nice. Then some of these idiotic threads would go 'below the threshold'.
RANT. : Comment 18 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 28-Apr-2003 13:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Remco Komduur):
I dont't think there's anything bad about having a +200 posts thread. As for myself, I readed it up to post 10 or so, and found it YAFUT or "Yet Another Fucked Up Thread", so I stopped reading it. Perhaps it would be a good idea to start another category called "Crap", as takemehomegrandma suggested.

Ferrán
RANT. : Comment 19 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 28-Apr-2003 15:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Christophe Decanini):
"The problem is that I do not pop up here to moderate a thread everytime there is a new one. I understand your point but my concern was to avoid having several new threads on the same subject."

In that case surely the right thing is to merge the threads, not just delete one of them at random?
RANT. : Comment 20 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by CHristophe Decanini on 28-Apr-2003 15:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Don Cox):
With the current system there is no way to merge the threads.
RANT. : Comment 21 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 28-Apr-2003 22:49 GMT
I'm all for the category proposal; the names suggested seem to be a bit of a problem.

I propose "Trashcan," with a certain familiar shade of orange used to denote the category. Leave it off by default, and perhaps threads moderated such could be locked from further posting, to avoid DB bloat.
RANT. : Comment 22 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Apr-2003 04:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
Yes "trashcan" is of course a better word. And locking the thread is also a nice idea!
RANT. : Comment 23 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 29-Apr-2003 17:40 GMT
Moderation doesn't work. Especially not in a gang-warfare situation like this one. You'll get the two opposing sides moderating the other's posts down to suppress "unhelpful" comments.
RANT. : Comment 24 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by damien on 01-May-2003 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Fabio Alemagna):
Yes, one of mine has been deleted....
there was no injury, I was just giving my point of view about BBRV's last statement.

Is ann.lu pro MOS?
RANT. : Comment 25 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 05-May-2003 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
Can we have a category for "old news repeated again for good publicity purposes"?
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